Travis County Commissioners Court

May 22, 2012 - Item 33
Agenda

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33, consider and take appropriate action regarding the use of vote centers in future elections beginning with the November 6, 2012 presidential election.

>> good morning, Commissioners, judge, dana, Travis County clerk and I think some people would like to talk about the voting centers for the future and I would like to have a couple of opening comments for you.
I submitted to you detailed analysis of some of the questions that were raised during our public hearing so if you would like me to go over any of those, I am happy to do so.
let me summarize by saying our approach to vote centers in Travis County was to develop a response to feedback -- was developed in response to feedback from our community.
we wanted to balance the desire, for people I think who wanted us to maintain neighborhood polling places while still offering people more options for convenience to vote on election day in the same way that we offer convenience for early voting.
so our neighborhood -- turning our neighborhood precinct polling places into vote centers was our attempt to try to find that balance and it did seem to be successful because when people voted and took advantage of this, two-thirds of our voters in that November election voted in their neighborhood precincts as always, and one-third of our voters took advantage of voting outside of their neighborhood on election day.
so we had one-third of our voters who needed to be some place else on election day and were able to use a vote center.
when we get to redistricting effect for the November election, I think it's going to be very difficult for everybody here.
vote centers solves those problems for us.
voters don't have to be so very aware of being within a strict boundary line.
they can vote where it another convenient for them on election day.
we have also spent several years getting Travis County in the position to have the security, infrastructure in place, so just like early voting we've had for years, when people show up to vote on election day, we immediately, within a than toe second record that person as having voted so it is not possible for the person to go shopping around at other election day vote centers and also voting, just like of right now with early voting, you don't double vote.
we will be able to offer the same kind of security for echtion day.

>> so if you show up at a second place, let's say on election day, that second place will be able to gather the information that you voted at another location.

>> yes, sir, there is a realtime connection at the voter administration database and if you show up at a second location, it shows you already voted.

>> all right.
can I ask one more question since I interrupted you anyway?
the newspaper had an article indicating that some voters went to the wrong place.

>> to vote in the may election, you mean?

>> yeah.

>> and how do we address that issue?

>> well, that is a perfect example of what happens.
we weren't in a position to use vote centers except for the one trial period, right.
so now for the may election and also for the primary elections, vote centers are not being used.
people are having to go to their neighborhood polling place and they must be within the boundary lines.
some of them are strict and some of them don't make a lot of sense to you as a voter if the polling place is just down the street but there is a boundary line in the way, it can look kind of silly to you as a voter, why can't I vote at the polling place down the street for me, when, in fact, your assigned polling place is on the other side within a strict boundary line.
what you saw with people going to the wrong polling place was voters making that mistake and it's a -- it's a problem and it's even a bigger problem once we have redistricting.
they think they know the right polling place and they just get the boundary lines confused or they don't know about the boundary lines and they make a mistake and it's human nature to kind of tend to wait until the last minute in the day and they will be stuck in traffic or whatever, get to their polling place, they think they have the last 15 minutes to vote and they are in the wrong place and it ends up costing them their right to vote because they have to be in that one place.
well, what vote centers does is it solves that problem.
it means that even if they show up in the wrong place on election day, it's still okay to vote right there.

>> but we may have the issue for 29, November 6.

>> yes, we cannot use vote centers for the primaries and I am concerned, and that's why you hear me telling people over and over, double check your polling place before you go out to vote on Tuesday.
no vote centers on Tuesday.
not for the primaries and let me at this point in time stop here and say -- offer the opportunity for anybody else who would like to make comments.
is that all right?

>> no, not yet.
mr. Davis.

>> what is the reason, I think I need to say it publically of why -- because I have been asked that question, why can't you use the vote centers in the primary election?
and I have been asked the question and I want you to tell the public exactly why we can't do that in the primary and we can do it in the general election as far as which did before and of course this coming November.
can you basically tell the public why?

>> yes, Commissioner.
it is against the law to use vote centers in the primary.
and the reason why has to do with the precinct conventions.

>> exactly.

>> when the legislature convened this next legislative session in January, they might revisit that,or they may not.
they may decide that vote centers are not appropriate for the primary.
that would be the parties' decision.
we don't make that decision for them.
so it may be that primaries are always going to be this way, that primaries will never have vote centers.
but right now, it's in accordance with the law.
the law says, no vote centers for primaries.

>> I am glad you are telling the public exactly the reason, because we -- we are getting it on all ends.

>> I know.

>> as far as why we can't do this and --

>> I know.

>> we do it here but can't do it there.
so I want it to come from you so the public will understand that.
my second question is in the situation with the city of Austin, election in November, dealing with the election, what type of hardships can we maybe predict or be in line to overcome with that participation as far as other -- other than just a general?
can you tell me what those hardships may be and how we are looking to overcome those?

>> yes.
I think there are two main hardships you overcome if you use vote centers for the upcoming November election.
the first one is, we do have redistricting, and it has had a massive impact in Travis County.
the -- I think there were -- I am sore i, I am forgetting how many -- I am sorry, I am forgetting how many precincts were affected but there would have been enough that we would have had to buy more equipment in order to cover the additional polling places that were added as a result of redistricting.
that additional equipment would have cost about $500,000.
so the first thing is the court saves about $500,000 by not having to have equipment at extra individual precinct locations.
the second thing is, we don't have to have voters who have to relearn their individual precinct lines and new polling places because they can stick with the polling places that they have been accustomed to, all the way through this redistricting period.
so nobody gets lost.
nobody gets turned away because they are in the wrong place.
they can vote wherever it's convenient for them.
having -- once every ten year, we go through redistricting.
it is a very big change for voters.
being able to go through a November election and save all the lost voters, that should be a very big deal for our voters.
we can -- we can offer them this convenience, which is very meaningful for them because it means they will get the chance to vote.

>> okay.

>> is that good?

>> and this is my last statement.
the comments I have have been getting, as far as the voting, some of the concerns have been real positive.
I think a lot of folks out there really appreciate what we are doing here.

>> thank you.

>> so I wanted to let you know that.

>> knew.

>> thank you.

>> commerce court and ms. Debuevior would like to hear from our residents at this point.
if you like comments, please come forward.
yes, ma'am.

>> yes, I am the travis republican party chair and I did testify previously and it's interesting that our county clerk mentions that it's against the law.
I brought out the fact that the house bill 758, which is the law, was very specific when they put the guidelines for the pilots for the vote centers and I want to emphasize I did give a copy of the report to the 80th legislature and there was a lot of discussion during that time when they were putting up the parameters for vote centers and sometimes they are called superprecincts, that they also dealt with the question of do you consolidate precincts for this vote centers center concept or do you keep the regular polling precinct polling locations.
again, I will quote are from that statement, chairman denny wrote a letter concerning this issue and clarified that the intent of the law was to allow for a pilot in which the county wide locations were used in lieu of the regular precinct polling places.
so I think we are left with the interpretation that the law says that these vote centers are supposed to be consolidated precincts, not all precincts turned into vote centers and I was here when we had that discussion.
I testified that, yes, we did want to keep the neighborhood configuration.
we wanted people to be familiar with their voting place.
it was unanimous that we did not want to close any polling places and I think the discussion should have stopped right there because the intent of the law with house bill 758 is that polling places would be consolidated.
but that didn't end the discussion.
we obviously had the technology.
we can turn the vote -- the polling places into vote centers, but that is not the intent of house bill 758.
so I stand on my previous testimony.

>> it is your position that it is not legal to do what we are doing?

>> yes.

>> and I am trying to wrap my brain around what you would prefer, that we not have the supervoting polling places?

>> I think that on election day, that we -- we continue to require people to vote in their designated polling place.
there is ample time during the early voting period to go to places all over the county, so I think -- what I prefer and what the law is are two different subjects.
personally, I think it's great to have the convenience, but I think it does open up the possibility of people -- of potentially people who would have bad intentions to have voter fraud.

>> voter fraud in Texas is extremely low?

>> I understand that.
I understand that.
but the likelihood of a lot of different moving parts on election day and now that the photo voter id is still hung up in court, that may not be in place in November.
you know, we see a significant increase of voters who only vote once every four years in the presidential election, which I am sure we will have this time.
but I go back to what is public record and very thoroughly point of this house bill 758 in the 80th legislature.
I think what we are doing is actually against the law and that's simply reading what is in the record.

>> we have not had an opportunity to hear the ag's opinion on this?
no guidance from the attorney general.

>> the ag hasn't opined on this but I can say from my time working with greg abbot, we are required to look at the letter of the law and if it is plain language we don't go into what was said when the law was being enacted and the plain language of this law is that you have the authority to consolidate precincts but you are not required to consolidate precincts.

>> what's why I spoke about the legality plus preference, I mean.
our position in this county is that it is better for us to try to convert those -- the many polling places to vote centers to give us a lot more flexibility, get voters easier access to voting equipment.

>> right.
I understand that.

>> I guess have other -- say, have the other urban counties implemented any kind of vote center approach?

>> yes, in son coldating and having -- in consolidating and having the supercenters, collin county, lubbock, there are five counties who have done the pilot.

>> consolidate the voting predinct.

>> yes.

>> but ms. Debevoir, isn't it strew in lubbock they saw low town out of voters and also in collin county they had serious difficulties with capacity?

>> the legislature has reviewed and refined the vote center law multiple times since its original bill.
and what they have done is expand the opportunity for counties to parent paint and have gone into limit the amount of polling places that you can take it down to.
what they found is that counties were too extreme in cutting the number of polling places and collin county is the textbook example of whatnot to do.
they cut their polling places down so low and so such an extreme level that their citizens made a huge outcry.
it's the -- it is the one county in Texas that you do not want to emulate.
it's kind of a mark against vote centers and it is the one that the secretary state uses an example of, don't cut this low.
and, as a matter of fact, they wrote a law that says you cannot reduce your polling places from the number of precincts you have less than 65%.
so every county must have at least 65% of their polling places represented by vote centers.
you can't cut less than that.
they have the 80th, 81st, and 82nd legislature sessions have written house bill 3105, in 2007, house bill 719 and house bill 2109 in 2011 to guarantee accessibility to the community and guarantee that the people determine what kind of vote center program works best for their community.
this program is not intended to be a one size fits all.
that is why the legislature came back and tweaked it time after time and the secretary of state's office report that they found -- they have approved implementation of county wide polling programs across Texas and they report the use of vote centers have not resulted increase in voter fraud cases.

>> mr. Reeferseed has taken a look at this issue and he has comments to share with us.

>> well, sir, thank you for this opportunity.
I want to, for one, please request all of the citizens to please consult vote rescue.
most people who are not here for some reason today, they know a whole lot more about all of the election issues than anybody in this room, so please, take the time.
they really know what's going on, and briefly, there is no need to buy any more extremely extensive -- expensive, programmable, hackable, so-called electronic voting machines.
I mean, it's a nightmare.
it is a way to bring an end to our form of government on a not so cheap, and no voting centers in primaries is -- that we can't do it in primaries, that's a great reason.
you know, that the county, they -- the districts, the precincts, they need to be more in connection with the voting apparatus, the procedure, the election judge or whoever is taking part in it.
it -- we can -- again, I was going to say, we can save time, money, and our once proud constitutional republic's form of government, when we banish both electronic so-called voting machines and about prevoting.
I can tell you, this election we all went through, about clay defoe, we went to particular place to watch the particular results and prevoting the results, they say 0 districts are reporting, 0, and then they say, but the -- and then they had results already for you and I found out what that was, that was the prevoting results.
they plug that right in there and then the first notice seasoned the second notice and the third notice and the fourth notice and the fifth notice and the final update, clay defeau was at 11% all night long and that's physically impossible.
think about it, people.
are we all pretending that those same people who happen to go out and do the early voting had the exact same thing.

>> let's connect this to vote centers, mr. Reeferseed.

>> it is directly connected to vote centers.
vote centers are part of the process of taking away our real right to vote.
again --

>> it is used in the city council -- voters weren't used in the city council elections?

>> well, I was pointing out about how the --

>> and mr. Defeau is trying to forget that election, I believe.

>> you are right.
I am probably not helping his state of mind.
but it seems to me.

>> [laughter]

>> it seems to me it was odd that he had the same percentage from the prevoting, the first second, every precinct, when they all call in, they all had the same.
I am an old person and I paid attention to elections results for a long time and I don't remember them ever being the same like that.
every -- when -- they vary a little bit but just the fact they didn't budge.
I wasn't paying attention to all of the other relations but with clay and with shawn ireland, they were the exact same.
all night long.
and I thought that was just curious.
I am -- I am surprised nobody else thinks that's odd or maybe they do.
do any of y'all think that's a weird thing?
it seemed weird to me.

>> okay.

>> are you supporting mr. Reeferseed or are you ready to make comments?
I am ready to get comments.

>> I thought you had his back, you were standing behind him.

>> no, definitely not.

>> [laughter]

>> dr. David albert, tj Austin community college and u.t.
extension and election judge in precinct 420 in ms. Gomez's precinct, and I wanted to say we had I think 126 voters last -- at the municipal election part of the low 10% turn-out and there must have been, I would say, 30 people that came in to our precinct and were in fact wrong precinct, probably about 25%, this is a municipal election, that is the most informed, most knowledgeable voters in the county, the ones who actually are showing up to vote in municipal election and a quarter of them were in the wrong place.
I can't speak to how many of the people that eventually got to our presipct, went to -- precinct, went to another one first, but out of that election, quarter people wrong place, turn-out high irin the primary and you will probably see a higher percentage of people in the wrong places, when you get to general election, you are going to see an equaler -- everyone with education in November, a lot of people coming in the wrong place and at the end of the day, they name the opportunity to vote or do additional ballots which is sometime consuming.
at the end of the day, it is the worse time to do that because that's when you get the most crowded in a -- at appraisingct on a workday.
-- at a precinct on a workday, it is different on a municipal on a Saturday election.
but Tuesday election, tons of people are lost in flood-in at the end of the day.
it gets overwhelming to try to do provisionals on those.
it takes 20 minutes to do one of those.
so what I am telling you anything you can do to attempt to alleviate and people with as many options as possible to vote will be positive and what will be very messy and very confusing for a lot of people on election day and that's on the ground.
it's from my experience, it has been the election judge numerous times.
I have seen -- I never have seen so many people in the wrong place.
420 was cut up in different ways that people were coming to parker united methodist where I was that should have been going to the dan ruiz library and different locations and, you know -- there is a congressional district line running through there so they had to chop that up.
it's a mess that will be confusing, we need as many options and as much education as possible in this situation and on voter fraud, it's crazy.

>> [laughter] I am paranoid.
I -- I have worked with these issues numerous times and saw events of voter fraud.
it is automatically registered that you voted.
you would have to be voted at two places simultaneously within a nanosecond for there to be any possibility of voter fraud coming about from having this because it is automatically being updated online.
it's -- and then if somebody is already voted, says already voted, it pops right up there, you know.
I just don't see how there is any possibility -- I don't know about the legal issues, the technical interpretation of the law, but I can tell you this is not incriminating any increase of voter fraud.
the only possibility I can think of is if the power went out and you have to hand check and maybe the votes and then even then the laptops have batteries a couple of hours and you can bring in replacement laptops an generators in that situation so then it is not automatically being updated if the power is out and you are checking against a hand list, so that's theoretically possible if somebody wants to knock out power in the county and run around different places to vote.
that's about what it would take.
so, you know, it really doesn't seem like voter fraud is a serious problem here.
threw.

>> I appreciate your help.

>> and my polling place, there were five or six voting stations.
we had multiple stations at all precincts.

>> yes, sir.

>> about five or six is the minimum.

>> okay.
will vote centers be available for city council elections in the future?

>> that is a decision for the city to make.
I am hopeful that once you make your decision they will also do the same thing.

>> okay.
if we approve this item, will the vote centers still be disallowed at -- during the primaries in the future if the parties don't want them?

>> if the law state sdaas the way it is, then we will not have vote centers during the primaries.

>> finally, do we need to take this language back and try to get it clarified during the next legislation?

>> I think it is fine.
we can also ask the secretary of state for clarification.
although, both of those are open to us and appropriate if you would like to pursue it.

>> sometimes you go for clarification and you actually confuse them even further.

>> yes.

>> so I might add that we -- Travis County is the only county that is interpreting it this way, to my knowledge.

>> actually, there is another county that's done it.
it is a small county, a county that did the same thing, where I originally got the idea.
they kept their neighborhood polling places and turned them into vote centers.

>> are you support five of vote centers, not the way we implemented them?

>> I am supportive of doing what the original intent of the bill -- of 758 was.

>> consolidating polling places?

>> yes.
and part of the discussion, as I recall, was ultimately to save resources.
the big question, and we are having the problem right now, of filling the judge and alternate judge and clerk positions.
we have about 75 or 80 vacancies right now for the may 29 election and democrats and republicans are scrambling to get people to work the polling places.
I think part of the idea was do consolidate resources, to use fewer people and maybe ultimately to save money, while that wasn't the original purpose.
and this way, there is no savings since there is no consolidation.
you know, it is more convenient I certainly give you that but I think looking at the original intent of 758 was not to have all polling places be vote centers.

>> the original bill was a cost cutting measure to wipe out as many polling places as possible and go down to an absolute few and what the -- what the subsequent bills have done have said that you cannot slash budgets like that, that you cannot reduce your polling places to that few and still serve your county.
each of the subsequent bills have put more and more restrictions on the vote of the vote centers program as a budget slashing tool.
it is not supposed to be used that way.

>> because of its disenfranchising effect on the field?

>> yes.

>> ms. Lopez.

>> dee lopez voter registration director for the tax office.
want to add to the mix here that with redistricting we split Travis County up into five different congressional districts and with that came a lot of changes to precincts, senate districts got cut up as well and I want to report to you that 96% of our voters -- our registered voters have a change in either their district or their precinct.
96 percent.
currently I have 594,000 registered voters and we are one of the highest registration rates of any urban county.
we continue to lead all urban counties in Texas but not in the number that were affected so 96% have a change in either their district or their precinct, so you can see where where we are such advocates of vote centers, because people will be confused and already are.

>> move approval of item 33.

>> second.

>> discussion?

>> mr. Reeferseed, any discussion?

>> upon being attacked, I can take it, but, again, how do we know -- how can we know of voter fraud if it is successful?
in other words, if somebody uses id of their brother or somebody, we will never know that, so for you, ms. Eckhardt to say, well, we have this tiny -- we know, a tiny percent we don't know, it is something we can't know, if it is successful voting fraud that went on, we will never know.

>> voting fraud, I agree with you, mr. Reeferseed, voting fraud is a very serious issue but in comparison to low voter term-out and what is apparently disenfranchisement through confusion, I think those are much bigger issues than the probabilities of voter fraud.

>> well, that's your opinion.
we are all free to that.

>> thanks.

>> can I speak for one second on what he had to say about voter fraud.
the biggest study say voter fraud is absentee voting, not anything by voting id and centers and the legislation has done anything to address issues in absentee voting so, I mean, that's the absolute easiest way to, you know, to defraud anyone's vote.

>> and those are serious issues but they are issues with the state level.
at my level of government, the bigger -- the bigger challenge for us sitting here is making voting as convenient as possible to get as many people to the polls particularly during this time of disenfranchisement confusion which is what we are particularly seeing in the redistricting process.

>> all those in favor.
that passes by unanimous vote.
move to recess until 1:30.

>> thank you.

>> all those in favor.
that carries unanimously.
thank you.

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