Travis County Commissioners Court
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 (Agenda)
Item 2
Item no.
2.
consider and take appropriate action regarding appropriate follow-up to address damage caused by recent wildfires and injuries suffered by county residents, including remaining fire issues, clean up in Travis County, collaboration with fema and other relief agencies, and related issues.
we simply note that the matter may be taken into executive session under consultation with attorney.
depending on how the discussion goes.
good morning.
>> pete baldwin, Travis County emergency management coordinator.
we continue to work with the long-term recovery committee out of spicewood.
we had a meeting last week where we actually formed committees and started making assignments.
through that structure, we have another meeting in the morning at 8:30, through that structure, what we are trying to set up is any of the unmet needs that we find in the community, that can be channeled back through or funneled back through that long-term recovery committee to see if they can be handled by any of the volunteer agencies that are out there assisting.
if those can't be met through the volunteer agencies, then -- if we have programs or have the ability to assist some of those folks.
so it's a work in progress.
but we are moving along very steadily.
yesterday we got a call from the state saying that -- saying that temporary housing, which are the trailers, are very scarce, but wanting to know if we had any specific needs.
to the best of my knowledge, from our last conversation, we had two families that would fit that category, we are working with the long-term recovery committee to verify that.
if that's the case, hopefully we will bring some temporary housing in on site fairly quickly.
>> if those two families in fact need temporary housing, we'll be able to put them in touch with the right fema folk?
>> that would be correct.
fema would be the point that would bring in the housing units.
they are good for 18 months, free of charge.
up to 18 months from the date of the disaster, which would be September the 4th.
>> but they would insist that the property be cleared.
>> the property would have to be inspected and meet the requirements for temporary housing, meaning they would have to have septic, they would have to have water, they would have to have electrical.
>> that would be a big deal if you are homeless now, as a result of wildfires.
>> that's correct.
>> 18 months is quite a bit of relief.
>> they would be on their own property.
we would work in conjunction with the fema inspectors and also with t.n.r.
to make sure that all of those items were met before we would be allowed to place one on there.
>> okay.
>> okay.
steve
>> [indiscernible] from t.n.r.
I would like to ask my staff to give you a brief status report on their activities and then would like to go through this -- this exhibit that I passed out to y'all by email last week.
where we are with -- with our recovery efforts and planning for future incidents.
if you don't mind, john.
do you want to take --
>> sure, I'll lead off.
I will be joining steve tomorrow out at that meeting with the long-term recovery group.
one of the items that we're going to be talking about right away, will be how to deal with any kind of household hazardous wastes that might be laying around.
we envision that there will be an opportunity for us to provide some cleanup assistance to them for the folks that don't have any other kinds of resources to do that and we will provide information on what folks can do in general with their household hazardous wastes in conjunction with our agreement for the city of Austin for a drop off-site.
but we will focus on the folks that have an immediate need.
also an assessment of any kind of unmet needs that remain out there with respect to -- to cleanup of destroyed structures and things like that.
so to some extent there will be some sort of assessment of what the ongoing situation is.
>> john, I have a question.
this comes in our area.
blessedly we had a three to four inch rain out in the spicewood area about a week ago.
as a result of that, we've continued to have more calls on erosion control where the burn has taken place.
and I know that we've had some discussions about helping to triage the right information, whether it was from the county or lcra on erosion control.
is there a source available immediately to people who have questions about this?
do we have the fact sheets together --
>> we do have the fact sheets.
we use basically the same fact sheet that lcra uses, I can provide that to folks.
>> is that posted on our website?
if they were to go looking for it?
>> we can get it there.
>> okay.
I think that would be a very good idea because there are a lot of canyons out there that have been denuded by the fire, hopefully we will have some more three to four inch rains.
>> didn't I see an article in the statesman regarding the -- regarding the a&m extension service, and erosion control in bastrop?
>> oh, that could very well be, I'm sure they've been working in conjunction with the Texas forest service, so basically we all have the same sort of information.
in fact when you look at erosion control sheets, basically the entire western half of the united states, they all basically are on the same template.
do we think the average resident will know what household hazardous waste is?
what products constitute?
>> I think so.
but we will certainly provide information through the long-term recovery group to let them know what kinds of things constitute household hazardous wastes and what kinds of things constitute that.
a lot of stuff in the debris is going to be mixed in, you are not going to be able to distinguish it from the debris, but there are certain things that I think people probably have a rate good sense of, cleaning products, automotive fluids, pesticides that sort of thing that they can deal with this way.
>> I would contact capcog on the household hazardous waste pickups, plus the committee does grants annually.
I don't know if there's a fund available.
>> actually it will be very short in terms of funding available because they had their funding slashed by about half.
there have been grants in the past.
for local cleanups, those grants were awarded, those projects were already planned for this year.
there still is the opportunity, though, for us to -- to look at other ways to deal with a -- with a neighborhood collection event.
but we just have to figure out how we want to do that.
>> well, hays county apparently does one periodically.
>> that's correct.
>> fayette county does one 365 days a year.
county judge said.
so they do one all the time.
kind of permanently set up to do that.
I understand they get a whole lot of paint.
but -- but I guess what I'm suggesting is if we want to provide assistance in that area, it might be good to make a few phone calls to hays and fayette, hays and judge
>> [indiscernible] down at -- at fayette county.
>> stacy sheffield, t.n.r., on permitting the rebuilding efforts, we've established a phone line.
854-7953.
this is no property owners who have fire damaged property.
they can call that, leave their name, phone number, property address, the damaged property and just -- just brief description of -- of what -- what they would like to do to get rebuilding.
we will call them back, get them a permit the next day.
so far, we have permitted -- one damaged septic field in the spicewood area and one home rebuild in the steinner ranch area.
>> t.n.r., we've had, with road management we've had several crews out there for multiple weeks now, yesterday I was out there just gave it a drive through and looked in, we're pretty clean.
I would say 98 to 99% of the debris in the right-of-way is now -- now picked up and been removed.
we do see some properties building and clearing and staging, fairly good piles pretty close to the right-of-way.
not on the right-of-way but it's on the private property.
we haven't had any requests as of that I know of to remove these piles yet.
but we're starting to see some of those crop up.
we do have one resident request for us to come on his property and clean trees and brush along his fence line so it would make him easier to replace that.
county right-of-way looks good, spent quite a bit of time out there.
I think we're about to leave the area here within the next few days.
>> we talked about some sort of emergency declaration that would enable us to assist private property owners.
we kind of left that hanging last week, right?
we didn't really cite anything definitive.
is that part of our discussion today in executive session?
>> it can be if you all would like.
>> do we foresee the need for that.
do we think if we wait long enough --
>> I'm not sure.
right now we haven't had any requests to come on private property to do that, except the one on the fence line.
as far as I know, we haven't had any calls to come on to private property and remove these piles, a lot of them you see dumpsters, heavy equipment out there, they are dealing with it.
I wouldn't anticipate, but I would hate to predict.
>> I have been able to --
>> [indiscernible] two residents in that area, that they -- that were given to me at the last long-term recovery committee meeting, these folks are indicating that they don't have the insurance to take care of removal of large debris from their property.
just two so far.
one of the things that I observed looking last week is a lot of the trees along the roadway have received some amount of damage, kind of leaning towards the road.
I hi we're going to see -- I think we're going to see continuing trees falling into the road, we have to be diligent and cruise it periodically.
vrso we are seeing folks ar%x s6 their lots towards the front of their lots where the roads are.
I think some of them might be doing that in response to -- to, you know, the advice to make themselves a buffer around their home.
remove trees and debris from around your home.
get it away from us so you have another fighting chance before another fire breaks out.
in doing so, piling these large stacks of trees and debris, generally it's on their private property.
but that in and of itself could create a fire hazard.
so I think that we would need to have some authority to go on to private property to remove that type of a debris to a limited amount.
definitely for the homes that are having problem getting debris from their damaged homes removed.
then these folks are pulling trees and such out to the right-of-way line.
if we -- I think if we provide that service, it -- it would be a good use of our resources to prevent future fires or the scope of future fires, keep it as limited as we can get it.
so I would like to ask the court for that level of permission.
now, I mentioned at the last meeting that -- that the property owners who asked for that service and that volunteer groups who say they can't provide it.
we would ask those property owners to sign a statement saying they do not have an insurance option.
they will waive liability and give us permission to get on to their property to collect debris.
when -- if we do this when we get on to their property, it's not to give them carte blanche to dump anything for us to haul away.
we are going to be using our discretion saying we can haul this.
this other stuff is material that we can't handle.
you will have to deal with it through some other means.
>> I think it might be useful, we mentioned this last time in court, this discussion, but to mention it again for anyone who is looking at the difference between Travis County and bastrop county from a public assistance standpoint and our resources as it relates to dealing with this kind of problem.
the main difference there is that bastrop county has been declared under public assistance funding with debris removal, because theirs is such a large fire, had such a large amount of debris in trees, they were actually able to go ahead and apply under public assistance for the private property debris rule, ppdr, grant, which then allowed them to sign waivers with private property owners to go in and remove those trees because they were such a safety issue.
but those trees are those 60 and 80-foot pine trees that have been burned and are in danger of falling.
that's how they were able to do that.
they were not -- to my knowledge, they were not going in and removing household debris.
it was primarily the trees on private rot for safety reasons -- private property for safety reasons because they couldn't even put temporary housing in until they had some of those lots cleared.
that's how they were able to do it.
for the record, Travis County has not been declared public assistance, that is still open and we are still holding that option, it's not really an option.
we have to come up with a certain amount of damage.
but that is still open.
>> so we -- so we haven't made the qualifying levels.
>> correct.
we have not met the $3.3 million of damage, simply because we had our three largest fires pulled outlet under separate grants.
>> if we had to estimate, what number are we at?
we're not at 3.3 million, are we one million --
>> I would have to say a rough guess, sir, would be somewhere around 500, $600,000.
>> so we probably will never get to $3.3 million?
>> not unless we have another fire that's not declared and I personally don't advocate that route.
>> going to the handout.
we've already talked about the first four items. This is stuff that we're doing right now to help with recovery.
but in planning for future incidents.
that's the rest of the documents about items one through 11.
one of the items is what Commissioner Huber has already touched upon, getting information out to folks, getting fact sheets out, we're talking about here enhancing the website for emergency responses to have that type of information.
we're still collecting that, we're going to work with pete and his staff to get that added to that website.
which generally is just general information, good information, for people to have who are planning, who should plan for disasters and -- and how they -- how they give us some guidance on how to get through it in the recovery mode.
for things that are happening right now, the disasters occurring right now, we think there needs to be another source of information for real-time information on the facebook page.
peat's staff are working on that right now so when you do have an active incident going on.
people out in the community who want to report something, that would be good news for other folks to hear, can put that into that facebook page and responses can be provided on evacuation status, on -- on where the fire fighting is occurring, so people can stay clear of certain areas and that sort of a thing.
then there's a list of other things as we roll down through here that we would like to -- to have the court's approval to do.
one of them is giving us the authority to go on to private property.
another one the notion of creating a public information officer.
someone who could keep tabs of that days book page, for example, you need to have someone updating it frequently during the event.
but there's also a need for the information officer and other areas of the county.
I would like to suggest that's a topic I could bring up to the other county executives when we meet tomorrow afternoon, actually, to develop a job description for that type of a position.
so if -- with your blessing, I will do that with them tomorrow.
>> I don't quite agree on the pio.
I think we need much more information because what I get from pio is they -- they can -- they can spin the information -- this is one issue that I don't think any spinning needs to be done.
I think what needs to have is the communication to people about what they need to do to get out of this, get out of this harm and then set up for prevention for the following times.
a lot of folks don't have computers.
besides that, if they do, I think information is understood much better on a person to person basis.
when we put it on the web, have somebody do the pio or press releases, I think sometimes they come out sounding very ambivalent and people can interpret that information one way or the other and sometimes it's not useful.
the other thing is that I think if we keep adding people to our government, we're going to make it keep growing and from what I have heard from taxpayers this year, there's not -- they're not really interested in paying more taxes.
they are in a real,-real straight of meeting their own expenditures and also their taxes.
they understand that we have to raise it in order to meet current needs.
but if we keep adding on every year, those needs for us obviously keep growing.
the issue for them is that the burden becomes even tougher.
so I mean that would be something that -- that I would take a long, long time to think about.
and so let me just not pull any surprises later and just tell you now that I don't agree with that.
>> okay.
>> let me add something here.
because I have been so intimately involved in this follow-up process on the -- on the fire disasters.
and I respect what you are saying about adding staff and putting spin on things.
but I think that -- that one of the things that might be useful in looking and evaluating a pio for the county is to put together information for the court that -- that -- that addresses the sheer volume of just basic information that we look at trying to get out to the public.
it isn't -- it isn't anything that is -- that is issue pro or con related, but in this instance there's probably I would venture to guess several dozen fact sheets that need to be out there and available and management of that information like you were suggesting is not just the -- the computer related by identifying ways to put that information in the hands of people that don't have certain types of access to certain avenues of information.
and I think given the size that Travis County has gotten to be, that we have a whole variety of categories of basic information dissemination that need to be -- could be better addressed through a public information officer.
so my suggestion would be in order to -- to eliminate the anxieties of -- that some people may have about what does this mean is to -- to -- in looking at addressing a potential job description is to be very clear to the court on the rationale for the need for this from a standpoint of -- of the plethora of basic information that needs to be put out there on behalf of the county.
>> well, then we can also add the rap indications of adding another person -- ramifications of adding another person to our payroll and what that means for next year's expenditures and taxes, as long as we have a balanced view of creating another job, then I think that will go a long way to explaining to people why we're doing what we're doing.
>> if you don't mind I would like real quickly to walk through 10 items, some of them I would like to ask for direction on today, other ones not so much.
item 1, we need to have a point agency for starting the recovery phase of an incident.
and there's -- it's almost a blurred transition because in a lot of cases the emergency is still in effect.
in other parts of the area where the emergency has already passed through, you can actually start recovery.
so I believe t.n.r.
is probably better suited to -- to deal with disseminating information to the agencies that have a part in the recovery effort.
I think pete will have his hands full in an active emergency and we can start recovering in areas that's already passed.
>> are you all talking about these ideas together so that it isn't just coming from one direction but rather it's a shared discussion and agreement?
>> right.
we are communicating with each other.
>> okay.
>> developer enhanced communication to receive triage and direct communications received from victims, responders, from recovery groups, Austin emergency management is working on that.
what I'm looking for is like a call down
>> [indiscernible] of sorts.
if an emergency were to happen today, there's no written procedure that says this person shall do this at this time and contact this person over here so that they can start their activities.
I would like to memorialize that in a set of procedures.
so we're going to continue to work on that with pete.
provide enhanced county emergency website.
this is what we were talking about earlier.
this is where all of these fact sheets can be found.
this is where contact no.
and roles and responsibilities would be shown to the public for those who do have access to the network.
establish a county facebook page, for real-time information, I'm sorry.
>> I was just going to say, you know, there's already a red button on the front page of the county website, disaster relief page, there is a tremendous amount of information there just for the people who are watching this, it's already there.
I anticipate we'll have more.
but wanted to highlight that.
>> this would be enhancing that with more information.
the next one, item 4, was the county facebook page for real-time information.
pete's staff again are already working on that.
support fire service providers.
I think the best way we could help them at this point anyhow is to help them distribute information.
we had suggested earlier or last week that -- that perhaps we can provide them at no charge printing services for the brochures that -- for those folks who don't have computers, they can be handed out by the emergency service divisions.
you were asking for a number.
>> I just got word yesterday that a thousand of the ready, set, go brochures are being sent to us.
then also flying that we need botch and beyond that, we have the ability take download the graphics, but I think we should start with about a thousand for our fire departments and see how that works for them.
>> did you talk with the fire chiefs about -- about that volume?
because I'm -- I'm hearing a higher number.
>> no.
I was not at capco yesterday.
we're talking serious distribution, if we divide that by a thousand, it's several hundred apiece, I would think -- I don't have a number.
I just know that they probably have a good idea of what they can distribute.
>> we can start with a thousand and then if the printing -- you said, I believe, it was up to 10,000 of -- pieces of information.
if we have graphics, we can certainly go back and supplement that.
>> is there a cost associated with setup?
>> I would plan to print enough to last.
>> that's correct.
>> so I think it would be a good idea to check with esd, see what that total is.
are we authorized to print as many copies of ready, set, go as we think we need?
I don't see any problem, but I would -- I guess that I would run that by -- these come from the state?
>> yes, sir.
>> I would run that by the state to make sure that we are authorized --
>> we are.
the graphics are available on that website, anybody can download them print what they need, they are accepting us a thousand copies.
>> if we think that material is meaningful, I would go ahead and print enough to last.
>> judge?
>> yes, sir?
>> in our discussions with the fire chief, those engaged on Friday, we are looking at taking the brochure that is available, electronically, making some updates to make it specific to central Texas.
so the group is already working toward that and presumably when we've got a product that we think that we're comfortable with, we will be able to print hard copies, but in the meantime we will be making it electronically available as widely as we can.
but it does need a little bit of work to make it -- make it more applicable to central Texas as opposed to sometimes the photos appear to be california or west Texas or something like that.
>> do we taylor to central Texas or to Travis County?
>> we're hoping to make it as regional as we can.
we are looking at this point as central Texas.
however, obviously, we could potentially consider making it --
>> Travis County
>> [laughter]
>> you are thinking so regional.
>> the other way, there's a huge opportunity for dissemination of this, through the different homeowners associations have which the police department has from their national night out.
looking at the economy of scale, that's another thing that needs to be checked with.
>> before I made the central Texas specific this idea just occurred to me, I really would run it through capcog.
I think some of the small counties think that Travis County can get to be overbearing sometimes anyway.
so half may see this as being helpful.
the others may see it as being encroaching.
I think the way you deal with that is just touch base with them up front.
in Travis County the perspective we would make the call for ourselves, if we could benefit others at the same time, you know, why not.
>> judge, we can take that through the regional preparedness subcommittee of the task force.
>> being chair of campo has ups and downs.
so -- pros and cons.
>> okay.
item 6, support efforts to establish multiple ingress and egress.
that's something that is going to take a while to do.
it's going to take meetings with members of the community.
it -- it probably is not going to be an easy thing to convince folks to do, particularly once the event is far back in their memory, but it's still something that we would like to discuss with the emergency service providers as well as the community.
develop a fact sheet on management of vegetation development and preserves.
t.n.r.
has already done this.
a question came up there was a concern that all of our preserves lands, are they potential fuel sources and we wanted to educate folks just on what risk if any there is with that.
>> did we get any feedback on our answers to those questions?
>> no, I have not.
>> I think that I would because -- because the emails that I saw expressed concern about -- about how proactive we had been.
and to be honest, I don't think anybody on the court had thought about that a whole lot.
so -- so I mean I would try to get some feedback.
>> okay.
>> I'm not sure how you about about doing that except my thought was in some states like california, these wildfires occur a lot more often and california is known as an environmental state, also.
so I'm thinking that they probably have more preserve lands than we do.
and have encountered these issues before.
I would just touch base with them.
>> I think a good point of contact initially, anyhow, would be the emergency services district.
they have the expertise and they would be a good way to check what we're saying against what their practices are and their thinking is.
>> yeah.
>> then go out to the public with something that we both agree to.
so we'll do that.
develop resource fact sheet for recovery related assistance provided by fema.
so on, we're in the process of doing that through pete's shop.
mitigation grant funds.
last week we advised you that there's an opportunity to get the grant funds and we will be coming back to you in January for your approval to -- to submit an application for that.
fund public information officer, we talked about that already.
establish job order contracts.
I will work with purchasing.
I think we may already have some of these in place, it maybe a matter of tweaking them for --
>> bastrop, the size of the cleanup there, I understand they contracted that out.
if we get requests for -- for cleanup, at some point we need to try to determine what it would cost us to do it, assuming the machine power, versus what it would cost us to contract and get somebody else to do.
whatever the call is, it's fine with me.
>> fine.
judge, I would like to add to that that we will definitely involve legal with that discussion because those debris removal contracts are pretty tricky.
you have to follow the letter of the law.
fema is very, very strict about -- about how those contracts are set up.
>> see the beauty of an interlocal is that you kind of rely on the other jurisdiction's legal staff, accountability standards, et cetera.
>> that's true.
>> in addition to their lower price.
but if prices are not lower, then you never get past first base and kind of stop it there.
so I agree with you.
>> so that's all of the elements that I was considering putting into these guidelines for future events.
I wanted to jump back to no.
3 under what needs to be done immediately and that's the one where we're looking for court's approval to go on to private property.
and I guess that would go into executive session.
that's the one issue that I would like to talk about to this long-term recovery committee tomorrow.
>> okay.
>> if possible.
>> okay.
I do think that we need legal input on that.
>> okay.
>> our lawyer is on the alert.
>> the county attorney's office is also going to work up the signatures or the -- or the document that's the property opener needed to sign, the waiver, the permission to get on the property, they don't have insurance option --
>> okay.
>> document.
>> okay.
now, since I've been on the court flooding in unincorporated areas has been a lot more common than wildfires.
what we are doing we think would apply to flooding emergencies, also.
>> I believe it would.
>> it is a little bit different.
I think that's why we need to really look at this and discuss it because if you get Lake Travis it floods.
lcra has pulled out of the debris removal business.
and -- and if something floats down the river and stops and lands on your property down on the lakeside, it's yours.
and so -- so it can be different.
so -- so I'm just saying we need to really have this discussion about -- about the depth of debris removal that we get into because it can become -- it can become a second disaster within itself very quickly.
but you are correct, most of the debris removal we have done in the past.
I would say at least 95% of it or more has been associated with flooding.
and so -- so this is really our first move into a wild land fire type of scenario.
so I think those discussions should be made or had.
>> because I think the loss of life and -- and property during the last 20 years in Travis County and Austin have really been resulting from flooding more than anything else.
>> flash flooding is the number one cause of death.
>> yes, I think we need to make sure that whatever we put in place we address that.
>> I agree.
>> judge, just -- let me remind you, though, that the -- that the way in which we deal with debris has -- has really changed in recent years.
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>> and there have been loss of life already.
so one there is us appreciating the danger.
two is communicating to residents that you should not cross that bridge.
three is that on some of them we put up barriers and on some we do not.
but in terms of getting out the word, you know, the bridge is flooded, don't cross it and other steps we could take, I mean I would think that whatever we come up with should address these issues.
>> I think it should.
I mean fire was certainly a different type of disaster.
in a flood event we generally know flooding is going to occur, we get notice from lcra.
we know where the low-water crossings are and we have our game plan fixed.
but the fire jumped all over the place and that was really tough.
I think generally the guidelines should work either way.
>> okay.
court members?
questions, comments?
>> just wondered, the story about the hearing in washington that congressman mccall had with fema and all that as they were going through the bureaucratic process and I think that was keeping some actions being done or taken at the local levels.
are those affecting us as well?
>> to the best of my knowledge, that hearing was primarily aimed at aviation assets.
>> okay.
>> and inquiry as to why it took so long to get federal aviation assets down here on these fires.
>> like the dc-10.
>> the dc-10 and some of the others and why some of the old military aircraft that have been converted were not utilized and although they say there was a safety issue.
I mean, it was -- from my understanding that was the intent of the inquiry is why was there such a delay getting those aviation assets into central Texas.
>> okay.
thank you.
>> it's amazing how effective they are when you can put two or three together effective immediately.
>> and I need to -- you know, we've talked about our recovery here and everything else, but during that response effort, since we didn't have any of those assets available to us, we used what we had and that was at times all three starflight units up in the air dipping water and assisting with these fires.
and starflight did a tremendous job on that.
normally what we would do with starflight would be the first end and then once we got the larger federal or state aircraft coming in, starflight would then pull off.
but on this one there were none so they worked those fires all week long and did just an outstanding job.
>> are we able to get reimbursed for part of that cost?
>> we have talked about that, and as it stands right now, it's my understanding starflight is going to submit for reimbursement under these f-mags because they were part of the fire in Travis County.
>> I think we ought to apply whether we get it or not.
>> if we -- if -- I'm not the starflight expert, but my point being is that in times past we've never charged for public safety because it jeopardized our medical transport and I'm probably not using the correct terminology here, but bottom line on this one because the fires were all within Travis County, they seem to feel like that that is a justifiable expense because it was for Travis County in Travis County.
and so if we -- those expenses are submitted they will be reimbursed at 75/25.
>> I think you are right, judge.
I think we ought to submit that.
because if it hadn't been for our local assets, it would have been worse, I'm positive.
>> without jeopardizing the medical certification, correct?
>> correct.
>> I had forgotten.
I think mr. Ivy told me about that.
>> one last question.
y'all waived permit fees last week, I think.
>> we certainly did.
for those uninsured and without the ability to pay them or the apparent ability.
>> thanks.
>> is that working well?
>> well, we'll find out.
stacy is going out there tomorrow with me and talk to the folks about the permit requirements.
>> now you can go with our blessing.
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