Travis County Commissioners Court
Tuesday, June 28, 2011 (Agenda)
Item 5
Item number 5, consider and take appropriate action on the regulation of fireworks in unincorporated Travis County by Travis County, the emergency services districts and other entities.
and we have visitors down on this item.
>> that's correct, judge.
again, herschel lee, Travis County fire marshal.
there are a number of people that wish to address this court on the agenda item.
to my right is chester Davis, american fireworks, Texas pyrotechnics association.
>> I don't mind going last, judge.
they are all here for my benefit so let them go ahead and go first.
>> okay.
first I would like to tell you some of the actions that the fire marshal and other agencies have taken.
after the local disaster was declared, we sent out public service announcements to all the media that we could locate.
I have made some extra efforts to locate directors of news from all the local radio stations and be sure that they got all that information.
local newspapers and several homeowners associations.
we plan to send reminders to all the news outlets beginning Thursday so they will get a reminder every day to please remind the public that currently the fireworks are prohibited as far as sale and use.
the sign shop, t.n.r.
sign shop, has made some fireworks prohibited signs for us and we have taken those and emergency service districts have assisted by placing those in their areas.
hopefully along where the burn ban signs currently are located.
on the Travis County website, when you first go to the website, the first thing that will come up is a flashing or scrolling sign that says fireworks are prohibited.
we've posted copies of the court's order on our website, and as of this afternoon that order will also be translated into spanish and posted on the website.
I'm going to ask chief mark warren from emergency service district number 8 to represent capital area fire chiefs to address the court.
>> good morning.
>> good morning.
>> as chief lee said, mark warren, Travis County esd 8.
the secretary of the capital area fire association and an email was sent to all the esds in Travis County to ask what kind of staffing they are going to have to prepare for this weekend.
all the chiefs of Travis County have realized the severity of this drought and how serious this is and they are obviously taking it very serious.
although the chiefs would like to staff more than they are going to, that I'm going to tell you about, but due to budget constraints they can only do so much.
my report today is tell you what the esds are doing.
all the esds in Travis County are going to be staffing up at least a brush stroke, which means two firefighters extra per brush truck being ready to respond to brush fires or whatever kind of calls come in so we're ready to knock a fire down before it gets too big.
esd 1, north Lake Travis fire department, besides the brush trucks, they are going to staff a boat.
they are going to have a boat available on Lake Travis for the anticipated higher number of people out on the lake.
esd 2, Pflugerville, is staffing two extra brush trucks.
again, that's at least two firefighters more per brush truck.
esd 4, which is Travis County fire control in north Austin, they are going to have a task force staffing a brush truck and engine.
esd 5, manchaca, they are adding two brush trucks, again, two firefighters per brush truck at minimum.
esd 6, Lake Travis fire rescue, they are staffing a brush truck and also going to have a boat on Lake Travis staffed with firefighters ready to respond to medical and fire calls as needed.
that's for the entire weekend.
that's Saturday, Sunday, Monday.
esd 8, which is what I want represent, we're going to staff two firefighters on a brush truck.
we also have a fire boat which very easy access for us to get on the lakes.
we're going to have a fire boat available also.
esd 10, which is c-bar, four-person staffing on their engine and two-person staffing on a brush truck and an additional brush tuck.
esd 11, which is southeast Travis County area, they are going to have three brush trucks staffed.
esd 12, which is the manor area, they are going to have a brush truck staffed and esd 14, volente, is going to have a brush truck, staffing and extra staff available as needed depending on what arises.
so the cafc chiefs are taking this very serious.
we appreciate the burn ban.
we appreciate the fireworks ban.
my district has -- we have bought burn ban signs and fireworks signs and this afternoon I'll be finish placing them up, although some have been taken down, I notice.
we take it very serious and we are very appreciative of y'all's support because 103 degrees temperatures is tough for our firefighters and we appreciate your help.
>> let me ask you this question.
in a collaborative effort, what is the plan of the esds in the event there is a fire that -- and I heard you talk about the deployment of esds in certain areas as far as who all is getting involved, but if there is a fire that the esds have been assigned to certain areas are not able to house, how will the deployment aspect of getting folks involved to overcome a critical event such as a major fire?
how will that collaborative effort work among the esds?
>> that's a good question.
we are fortunate we have a mutual aid agreement with every department in Travis County and our plan is respond and get there quick enough and knock it down when it's small.
if it's out of control we'll call for help real fast.
we have the luxury of having extra departments close to us that will send people, all we have to do is ask.
a lot of the mutual aid, all we have to do is ask and the help is coming.
if north Austin has a big event, turns into a fire like the pinnacle fire if you all are familiar with, you ask for help, starflight is a huge asset for us and all we have to do is ask and they are there to help us.
this is actually a county-wide effort and I have no doubt in my mind that even though we're the farthest west you could probably get in my area out by pace bend park, we'll get help quickly.
all we have to do is ask for it.
>> thank you.
I think the public needed to know that also because of -- okay.
thank you.
>> you're welcome.
>> any other comments?
>> we would also like, judge, phyllis claire majors, we would like the public to know we do have a nonemergency line that they can call to make reports to us.
974-0845.
>> 974?
>> 974-0845 and press option 3.
however, understand that's a lot to remember.
so 911 is also appropriate.
that number can certainly be posted on the website, but 911 is appropriate.
and if a caller calls in and it's not an emergency, they might be placed on hold for a minute to take another emergency call, but that's how we'll be handling communication.
>> so what are some examples of a nonemergency call in?
>> for fireworks?
>> that's what you are talking about?
>> uh-huh.
if someone was to call in and say they've heard a few fireworks in the cul-de-sac but nobody is out there now, that kind of thing, versus a person calling in saying they are being assaulted, we would have to prioritize those calls.
>> suspected violations of the fireworks ban.
>> yes.
>> basically.
any other comments?
anybody else?
>> judge, I have a couple of other items here.
the -- one of the things city of Austin asked me to remind people and there are a number of cities that already have an order or an ordinance prohibiting fireworks inside the cities.
and so if there's any question, everything in Travis County currently is covered by the court's order or by city ordinance already.
so the use of fireworks inside those cities was -- may have already been prohibited, but if it was not, those cities have gotten on board with your order and declared that fireworks cannot be used inside the city.
we have sent information out to all the constables and to Travis County parks.
and our goal for enforcement over the upcoming season is to prevent fires.
this is not a citation writing event.
this is to prevent fires.
and instructions to the marshals from our office that if education is the answer, then use that as an opportunity to educate the public about the dangers of fire.
if it's someone that knew better or should have known better, then a citation may be the appropriate thing.
but again, it will be officer discretion.
if someone is selling fireworks, then there's no reason for anyone to not know that the fireworks are prohibited as far as the sale of fireworks.
and so we will always take action on those.
>> one other comment.
starflight, as mark mentioned, of course, we look at starflight in various capacities, but they've been quite active as you know over the last several weeks.
but I wanted casey also to briefly let you know what they are kind of preparing for.
>> we are anticipating having three aircraft this weekend.
they will be staffed.
one of those aircraft will be ready and configured specifically for firefighting.
the other thing that we've got a dip tank recently and we worked with local fire departments yesterday on our setup of that which will allow us to dip directly off on hydrant or fire truck which will prevent us from having to go to private stock ponds to get water even if there may not be water there much longer.
>> with the drought, I'm surprised we got any water in tank ponds.
>> this is a double win for us and allowed us to get water without impacting our residents' water supply and gave us water, if there isn't any.
those helicopter will be available and any county asset just ask for it and we'll have it come.
>> I'd like to make one comment.
pete baldwin, emergency management coordinator.
I would like to compliment t.n.r.
also because they took the initiative and worked with several of our fire departments to be able to use those nonpotable water trucks to do that water hauling to fill those tanks if necessary.
in other words, they are in supporting.
they won't be actively fighting fire, but they will be actively supporting and I would like to thank them for that effort.
also we have visited with Texas department of transportation.
they will be using their electronic messaging signs starting either the 29th or the 30th in displaying messages about extreme fire danger.
they do that on -- when it's declared red flag day, but they have agreed to run that all the way through the weekend on all their messaging signs.
so everybody is getting on board.
>> thank you.
anything else?
what action if any is required -- I know we have miss Davis here.
do we need to take any action?
>> no, sir.
>> let's give mr. Davis his opportunity.
>> thank you all.
thank you for your efforts.
>> judge, can I keep herschel with me because he's going to need to answer some questions.
>> you can.
>> chester Davis.
I am the owner of american fireworks and I am the president of the Texas pryotechnic association.
and this morning I have all the fireworks vendors in state of Texas, Travis County, caldwell in my ear.
they have all been talking to me every day.
and this is the first time in 75 years, in my 40 years of being in the firework business that I've been completely put out of business.
we had droughts in 1996 and then-governor bush said we wasn't going to sell fireworks.
two days later he said we could sell safe and sane fireworks throughout the state of Texas.
never at one time have we been put out of business where people's lives are totally going to be changed.
while I can appreciate everybody being here, not one person said what is causing the fires, only the speculation that my business, my industry that I've been a part of forever is going to cause this disaster.
because a disaster declaration says in the threat of a fire.
but what we haven't talked about or what they never said a word about, they are preparing for the fireworks fire.
we're not going to sell fireworks.
what I'm concerned about nobody mentioned what is the ongoing problems in the county and all over that we're not recognizing.
and I believe we have a solution to our problem in that we could sell safe and sane fireworks and be able to stay in business.
if you've never been a business owner and you never had people been working for you 35 years, and because we built the business we have, we've never been put out of business.
so you can understand that we built our businessess based on history, history that we've never burned anything up.
yes, sir, there's been a few fireworks fires but we haven't caused as many as with barbecue pits and cigarettes.
if you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I monitor every single day of my life.
we can speculate all day long what we're going to do but we never have.
we built the business based to philosophy we've never been put out of business and never caused a problem.
yes, we've probably had issues, but we've never really been a problem.
and so I don't understand the philosophy of the Commissioners court and the judge when we have never been a problem.
we've been more proactive here than anybody.
and what I don't understand is how can you essentially discriminate against my business when I've never done anything wrong.
we've come to this court with every possible solution.
you've denied every solution we've come up.
we've offered property, safe and sane, do not sell when it's a red flag day.
we've done everything known to mankind to get you to allow us to sell so people don't have to give up their jobs, I don't have to close a business, all those things.
now, if in this meeting I heard today I heard things like, well, I'm going to have to tell all texans that they can't barbecue on the fourth of July because they can't start a fire in their barbecue pit, there would be more people by ten fold if you told a texan he couldn't barbecue.
but there's only one fireworks man standing here today but I represent a whole lot of families and businesses and I believe there is a solution to our issue.
the Texas forest service says at 575 by law in 352.051 the county can give up stick rockets and missiles and ban the sale and use.
I don't know where herschel lee, and I trust him, if he told you it's 596, my number this morning is 575 or a little better.
but I'm telling you that according to the -- what we're getting from the Texas forest service, that in the state of Texas, it's not a high fire danger, it's a moderate fire danger.
it's a blue in the state of Texas.
we just talked to them yesterday.
I didn't come here unprepared.
I know what I'm talking about.
and it is different now than it was because of the rains.
the situation is better and there's really at this point in time, there's no reason to take one business, one single business that's been in business 40 years and been a part of this community and every kind of fundraising and baseball team there is to tell them they can't sell when there's a solution.
and I will say that herschel last done everything I think he can to help us, but we've offered everything to the court and we've had no help from the court.
so I'm asking you to open it up.
you know, if we only sell three days, but it's very, very difficult when you've built a business around things and now you've decided that we can't sell and we can't be in business because you think, you think I'm going to burn somebody's house down, but you know what has and you haven't done anything about that.
I don't understand how you can speculate about what I'm going to do when you don't know that.
>> mr. Lee?
any response?
>> I respectfully disagree with some of his opinions.
and it's not the vendors that cause the fires.
it's the consumer.
and people do sometimes cause fires with improper discarding of ashes.
people start fires dragging chains down the road.
but those things are also regulated and controlled as best we can.
the sheriff's office, the constables office, the fire marshal's office when we see people trying to burn trash, we take action to stop that as soon as we can.
and I believe the action that the court has taken in this instance is the appropriate action to prevent the threat of an imminent disaster.
I would agree we are in better condition right now than we were just prior to you declaring this local disaster.
but by my calculations and east Texas math, we're going to be back around 630 to 640 by July 4th.
and that's providing there's no rain and the current forecast has no rain in it.
so I'll be honest with you, it troubled me to make this decision to come to you a week and a half ago and say this a problem because I know people struggle out there.
the economy is not great and there are families affected by this.
but just one wildfire getting away creates a threat also.
so I believe that we should err on the side of safety and stay where we are.
>> how does the prohibition against outdoor burning that we just extended in item number 4 affect the outdoor barbecue grill?
>> any fire that is to be used outdoors has to be completely enclosed is the way we interpret that.
so if you are going to barbecue or you are going to cook, it has to be in something that is enclosed entirely.
it has a top, bottom, four sides on it.
>> so we don't tell you you can't grill, but in item 4 we try to describe how you violate this order if you have an open flame basically.
>> that's correct.
>> so we try to show you, we try to say here's how you do your barbecue grill safely.
and if you don't do it this way, you are in violation of the burn -- outdoor burn ban.
the problem with all of this just like fireworks it's not like somebody is standing next to every Travis County resident 24 hours a day.
that's impossible.
so to a great extent we depend on voluntary compliance.
there is a reason why most counties statewide have a ban against fireworks.
and that's the reason why the governor extended these -- extended these bans to 7:00 a.m.
July 5th.
and the reason is that conditions are favorable to a fire.
and once it starts, it really is tough to put out.
>> judge, Travis County is a leader.
I can assure you that when Travis County declared a disaster, there was five other counties waiting in the wings to see what you did and you -- you are the one that made a decision for those other five counties.
again, I didn't come here today --
>> the governor did 20 other counties before we submitted our request for extension to him.
>> well, he did.
right now there's 178 that have declared a disaster.
some of them have less kbbi than you do.
let me say that just because you put it in and you don't -- and the governor will tell us, his office will tell you today, when you submit, he doesn't make you follow the law, he thinks that you are following the law.
>> and we do too.
we're in the same position.
>> and so a lot of people did it because you can look at burnet county this morning and they are well below where you are, but there are counties -- in the spectrum, there are counties today that at 720 they are allowing people to shoot fireworks.
and I'm not advocating that, judge, I'm saying you are telling me it's 635.
I can tell you in 1996 we were in the same category, but yet we sold safe and sane.
in 2005 we were in the same situation we're in.
everybody said oh, my god, it's the worst drought we ever had but we sold fireworks.
somehow magically we're still here.
we didn't destroy the city of Austin or Travis County.
all I'm saying it's very difficult for me to sit here and tell you that I've offered you every solution I know how.
I've told you everything I know about 40 years of being in the business, and all you can say to me is you speculate that I'm going to burn the county down.
if I thought for one second I was going to burn the county down, I wouldn't come to Travis County.
I don't believe that.
I believe if we sold safe and sane fireworks or we did anything, you would be in better shape with us -- and you know here's the other thing.
I don't know where this came from, I have no idea, but we're not joe dumb public anymore.
I can understand in 1996, you know, but from 1996 to today, there's more educated people in the state of Texas than ever.
so when people come to a fireworks stand, I have 200 of them -- or I had 200 of them, they come prepared to deal with their environment, where they are going to shoot the fireworks, how much money they are going the spend, where they are going to take the children, who is going to be with the children.
so they don't come there with no knowledge of what's going on and just buy frivolously.
most of them are scared to death they may start a fire, they may burn their neighbor's hay field down.
but you've made a decision as a Commissioners court to tell people for the first time in history they can't celebrate america's birthday, they can't do anything with fireworks, but it's okay from what started all the fires since February, let's not worry about those.
it's okay.
but we think fireworks are going to start a fire.
it's extremely, extremely damaging to us to think that anyone would think that we would go out and start fires that would harm our county, our neighbors, our friends, our families, our churches, and to be put in that category because we don't believe in that kind of thing.
we believe in what is today.
I don't believe we're going to start those kind of fires.
and if you sold safe and sane, at least we would have a way to survive, not a way to go under or not be able to pay our -- we're still going to have to pay our property taxes in Travis County, but Travis County is going to put us out of business.
>> the drought actually is what's affecting your business.
we really don't have any reasonable other choice and your assertion we aren't addressing other sources of fire is simply false.
we are addressing other sources of fire with our burn ban and with our heightened enforcement both from esds and from the sheriff's department as well as apd and the constables as well.
it's the drought that's affecting the business that you are in.
and I'm terribly sorry for that, but really we don't have any other reasonable choice under the circumstances.
>> I understand, Commissioner.
could you tell me one other thing that you banned in Travis County besides fireworks?
>> by having a burn ban, we are limiting all other fire sources.
we are also enforcing -- we only have certain enforcement authorities.
if someone is throwing a lit cigarette butt out of the window at any time of year whether there's a burn ban or a fireworks ban or not, that is a crime.
and that's enforced upon.
dragging a tow chain is something that we can pull somebody over for.
I haven't heard of anyone launching their barbecue pit 200 feet in the air, but I'm certain we would enforce against that as well.
>> the fires that have started from barbecue pills have been more -- pits in Travis County and charcoal from one homeless man burned down half of oak hill.
>> mr. Davis, I don't think you can dispute the fact around the fourth of July and January 1st, the number of fires go up considerably.
>> I cannot because of the number of people that are enjoying the fireworks.
I can't say that.
but let me just tell you, if you think on the fourth of July weekend that people don't enjoy cooking outside with barbecue pits and other things and I'm a born and bred texan and I understand what they are going to do on the fourth of July, I just hate being in the category of the only thing that is singled out and said we're going to ban you from being in business because you are a fireworks man and you might, you might start a fire when we know without a shadow of a doubt what is a problem, and yet the court has not banned any of those items because the fireworks industry is not as tough as the tobacco industry.
>> I'm sorry you feel singled out, but I can assure you our enforcement activities are not limited to fireworks solely.
>> herschel, can you basically tell me what counties -- or do we have an accounting of the counties here in the state of Texas that are actually allowing fireworks sale within those county boundaries?
in other words, they have not prohibited the sale and use of fireworks.
>> I do not have a list of those.
there are approximately 100 that have not banned those.
>> 100 counties in the 254 county situation in the state of Texas, you are saying 100 of those and you don't have a list, of course, but is that just approximation?
>> from my standpoint it's an approximation.
there is a map that -- I believe it's at Texas department of emergency management sends out in a power point format that has that on it.
those counties generally are to the north and east in Texas that are still allowing.
>> just in that prohibited -- that's what I need to do know.
thank you.
>> mr. Davis has pointed out he's looked at the map and there are some in the valley as well.
>> I think later in the summer if we can locate a safe place sort of in preparation for next summer, then we ought to put some effort into that.
I don't know whether we can or not.
I know some -- bexar county has, right?
>> I have heard they have done that.
and --
>> that requires more working time than we have here.
>> that's correct.
it would take quite a bit of time and thought put into it ahead of time because the fireworks would have to be sold there and used there.
not -- they shouldn't be allowed to leave there.
so that will be a control issue, who owns the property, who gets to sell.
there are a number of things like that that will need to be addressed if we choose to do that.
but I think it could be done.
>> I don't think there is support on the court to lift the ban today.
>> I understand, judge.
>> if the conditions change, though, we're carrying this matter, actually July 4th is right around the corner.
>> you know, judge, we need to understand that the disaster will end at 7:00 a.m.
on July 5th.
the state of Texas does not have a law that says you can't shoot fireworks 365 days a year.
it just says you can't sell them.
so ...
>> well, the court has limited authority, but we can take action in a shorter period after July 5th if the circumstances require it.
>> I understand, judge, and I've been on your side from the very beginning.
>> we're still together.
just not on this issue.
>> thank you, herschel.
>> anything that we must hear today, y'all?
>> judge, I just wanted to -- cyd grimes, I happen to live on hamilton pool road where we had two fires and I just wanted to thank our e.m.s., sheriffs, constables, volunteer fire -- all the folks for the work that they do.
it is a very scary feeling when you start smelling smoke.
we were very lucky.
there's so many cedar trees out there that it's just a bomb waiting to go off.
they were pulling this water out of my neighbor's pond and that pond is getting way low.
I was watching the news I guess it was that night and one of the fire guys said we're going to keep somebody else here all night to make sure it didn't spark up because the first fire sparked up the second night and I could sleep good that night.
I want to thank all those guys.
it's a hot, dangerous job and really, really appreciate all the work that they do.
thank you.
>> thank you.
>> public safety is a big deal.
>> okay.
let's go on to another item that we indicated we would call up at 10:00.
>> could I make a couple of comments?
>> is it about fireworks?
>> yes, it is.
>> all right.
>> good morning, Commissioners and judge.
I have lived in Travis County for 21 1/2 years so to say there are no potential impacts from fireworks I think is misleading.
I've had many sleepless nights on July 4th and 3rd because of people lighting them off after the time when you expect to see them, up to 10:00 p.m.
or 11:00 p.m.
to say that people are responsible for fireworks I don't think is true.
people buy them and light them off within the city limits in my neighborhood, which is north of hyde park, probably knowing they are not allowed, but just not having the pressure from the neighbors to say stop it.
we've done that in our neighborhood and fortunately there were very few lit off last year due to extreme drought.
this court lifted the ban on fireworks in the last couple of years when I thought they should have had it in place due to drought.
and also when people buy fireworks from the fireworks stands, are there educational signs at the site where they are sold, fireworks are prohibited in the city limits.
if there are, even though it's not required by law, that would be a positive educational step that your association could take.
telling people, verbally or putting a sign out they are banned within the city limits and always have been and probably always will be.
>> I appreciate that, but we're out of business right now.
first time we go back into business I'll put the signs up.
>> you can sell them during the end of the year around new year's eve; is that correct?
>> I can't tell you.
>> thank you, mr. Johnson, mr. Davis, staff.
we have seven or eight special visitors today.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
