Travis County Commissioners Court
Tuesday, June 21, 2011 (Agenda)
Item 30
Number 30, receive presentation from the plaintiff of Austin er of the naacp regarding findings of the u.s. department of justice regarding use of force by the Austin police department.
Commissioner Davis.
>> yes, sir, thank you.
how you doing, nelson.
>> wonderful, Commissioner, judge.
>> fine.
nelson approached me a little bit ago.
of course we have had a continuation of dialogue with mr. Linder.
he looked at, before the court in the past, he wanted to know an example of what the county's role is as far as what we do.
a lot of folks really don't understand county government out there, judge.
so he basically wanted to know our role as far as the relationship with the da, Travis County district attorney, and grand jury proceedings,el whole nine yards of several things.
of course, the information that we have provided him and the meetings that we have had with mr. Linder, he has now in his possession an array of a lot of information that really defines what the role is as far as Travis County has in some of these endeavors that he had brought before the Commissioners court in the past.
today mr. Linder of course approached, and he wanted to basically have an audience with the Commissioners court to deal with some of the reports that have come down from the united states justice department and locking at the excessive force issues demonstrated by the Austin police department.
of course I told mr. Leonard that we would receive his presentation, judge, and let him walk through the information that was received.
I guess mr. Linder at this time if you would like to just go through what you have, we will be glad to share what your discussion is all about.
again, welcome to Travis County.
we look forward to listening to your presentation.
thank you.
>> thank you, Commissioner Davis.
let me first say I came here on November 17 of 2009 after the shooting of of that than alsanders and again in may of last year.
based on the letter written back in between by the grand jury that actually indicted police officers for shooting jessie owens, they said they saw a double standard in the city regarding police shooting of young black men.
this was a grand jury.
they challenged Austin to bring this issue at every level of government, the city, county, police, they challenged all institutions back then to talk about this issue, to come up with viable solutions.
that is why I'm here, in the context of that letter.
also, recently the department of justice concluded after a very long investigation of the city of Austin police department.
you have an ep could of the letter.
they talked about the fact even though there were no constitutional violations, there were a lot of concerns that could be implemented to address these issues as far as use of force.
ironically this letter was taken as sort of a vin di case by the police keefe--police chief.
they talked about the department being very good and there's no major problem.
the third item, the e-mail from me to city management on the 31st of may this is right before the shooting of young carter Juner.
keep in mind, they were still bragging.
four hours later this young kid was killed.
the point is, they are talking about vin di case and no scry lagess, it's iranic, we have another shooting.
we are not talking about genocide but we are concerned about two young men downtown apparently casing cars but no crime commited.
they are engaged by police officers and the result when the thing winds up, one young man dead, a passenger, charged with no crime, another man, a juvenile, shot in the leg.
the point is this shooting is the kind of thing we talking about in the investigation.
almost like no matter what we do the things keep occurring.
what I want the say, if you read this report carefully it's certainly not a vindication.
it says there are things we can do better.
nobody is enforcing what the problem is.
for example, doj says they didn't break the law, clearly we need a better system regarding these incidents, how are we going to get results.
I want to refer back to the grand jury.
they had an indictment.
when it comes to the issues, almost like the county doesn't know its role.
when I talk about the county, they say nelson, what are you doing.
we need to find way to raise awareness on every level.
I thinking looing at the da's office, when you look at their case pathology there's an issue about the cases just like do j.
they talk about a higher standard in reality still based on criminal intent.
nobody wants to talk about negligence.
I'm saying when you look at the had --history of the shootings, there's a strong case in them all of negligence.
without really addressing that.
very recently I was reading a report in oregon they have a new process.
they are addressing the beginning of the process.
my question is to you all of you being the county, if you have two young black men downtown supposedly casing cars, nothing has happened yet by engaged by the police and ten minutes later there's a shooting and somebody is dead, I have an issue with that.
once again, if folks are not committing crime and you are following them, it could be caused racial profiling.
I'm not defending behavior but I'm saying downtown, you wind up killing a passenger and that has to be addressed.
I know there's a process we go through in terms of the internal affairs.
but we just have an issue with how these things are happening here and nobody addressing the fact that obviously this process is flawed.
my goal today is to talk about the letter and what it says, which says clearly issues to address.
the problem is with no enforcement mechanism, how do we address them.
I'm calling you to the court the take a look at the process used here to do investigations.
I have said a thousand times before, if you don't look at reform of the Texas penel code and negligence, you're not going to stop the shootings.
obviously what the police are doing even with a strong racial component, nobody is is enforcing the law.
clearly the police department can't enforce that themselves.
we need the court to begin a dialogue at higher level and encourage the police officers, make sure when they address the issues as they are right now, they address from a different perspective, not just intent by behavior and the role of police in these incidences overall.
just like portland oregon, when you talk about the things in the first place, it isn't appropriate, for example, following young black men downtown because we think a car is stolen and all of a sudden somebody is dead, one of the young men didn't even commit a crime.
I think this is a bad situation.
until we address outside the context of this current culture, a its going to continue.
we need your help today to number one continue this dialogue as grand jury stated but also pay more attention to the investigations and make sure they have a broader scope and instruct the just properly before they begin the process.
a final comment, I mention the grand jury in the jessie owens case.
there was a very informed grand jury.
a lot of the people were cops.
they made it clear they were going to address criminal negligence.
by the way, they did.
they indicted the police officer.
but during the indictment, although not a technical indictment, my point is clearly there's a problem.
I think the county can do more to address these issues.
I think as stated in the letter there are things we can do.
apparently if we are not going to indict people, the behavior is going to continue.
I'm going to stop there and hopefully take some questions.
>> questions or comments.
>> I have a question.
mr. Linder, I so appreciate you coming and raising this issue and continuing to keep this in the forefront.
but I still struggle with the fact that the forum for, the area in which remedy can be divided is with a.
d, tcso, district and county attorney.
where they come together is in the community justice council.
really the only authority we have is the power of the purse with regard to tcso, county attorney and district attorney.
>> I guess again, this is a tangible issue.
the power of persuasion you can have a conversations with what you see.
I would think when you guys see young black men being killed in the city, that would begin a thought process.
the process of government as informal.
because your colleague is out here, you do fund the office and I raise a question about the methodology of the investigation.
I'm saying have a conversations whether private or otherwise.
let me know this is a concern.
as said in the first letter, a summary recommendation, police brutality is one of the most serious issues in this country.
this is a report that covers 14 cities.
they are saying something almost identical to Austin.
they cite police, city officials even department of justice.
they are saying nobody is holding anybody accountable.
I'm not saying legal force, I'm saying a conversations informal or not.
but encourage people to take a look at what they are doing.
given the fact the thish is continuing.
dei spite what the grand jury said.
they are saying everybody had a responsibility.
including you.
I say raise the awareness, examine the , continue the conversation and watch what goes on.
I'm not saying anything legally, I'm saying if you look at the Texas penel code, clearly it's inadequate.
how you change that is another issue.
clearly the penel code has something wrong and needs to be a dialogue that leads to public awareness.
I hope the da is listening.
again, when I examine their process the last ten years, I see a lot of flaws.
clearly there are problems that need to be addressed.
again because young black men and hispanic men have been killed, nobody is willing to address.
>> has there been any progress made or any formalized process in the community justice council to address these issues?
>> I would say there's definitely some progress as far as conversations and understanding.
I think there's a higher awareness.
once again gets back to this issue, who enforces these kinds of issues.
we know that when it comes to da's office, they have a great record of inkiting anybody but never police officers.
that is a national phenomenon.
I have a problem.
clearly some of these officers are over reacting.
that office to me can do more but everybody has their hands tide because of the political issue and also because of the color of the victims and that is my primary concern.
I would say apd has changed their policy.
this e call it response is to resistance.
as part of our impact.
the question remains if there is no resistance, why are you responding.
if somebody is casing a car downtown, not stealing a car, you might be careful how to approach that young person.
if you spook them, you ends up causing an incident.
if you see the jessie owens case same, kevin brian, same scenario with black men people are enforcing the situation and creating outcomes undesire able.
I would hope you would want to read about portland or la.
once again, portland they are telling people, regardless of the outcome, we want to examine how these processes begin.
if you engage young black men and they wind up dead, clearly that is a problem.
nobody, again, looks like that process from the beginning, they are talk about the end result.
once again, if you are dealing with a cop and doing something wrong, we can always justify that.
my question is what about the beginning of the process.
casing a car is a probable cause enough to engage young people that way knowing as a cop you're going to probably spook them.
>> you had you.
>> that is really what I'm saying.
just awareness conversation and examine our role what we can do what that grand jury requested in 2003.
>> I think I hear what you are saying.
I guess it's of particular import to item number 3 that was in the department of justice recommendations as far as tactical and training issues so that you get to the root of the problem, deescalation and community policing so you don't have this issue at the end.
>> as you mention, our whole point for the last has been a case called gong versus state of tennessee.
in many of these cases, I'm not an attorney, but it's suspect.
graham versus conner, same kind of cases and behavior.
they tell me they have had training.
when I look at the cases, I don't see.
I see the same kind of overreaction that is not deescalation, it's really escalation.
>> I'm guessing what you were saying previously, even in some circumstances 4 vocation.
>> I think certainly.
again, I'll be concerned if you tell me somebody is casing cars but not stealing and you engage them and winds up killing somebody, please hear this carefully, the young man you shoot is a passenger in a car.
he didn't commit a crime.
we have to address that.
>> it does appear that the community justice council is probably the forum to convene the conversation not only with apd but all law enforcement, even though we do see the incidents that you have cited predominantly--
>> unfortunately, I deal with the county, apd doesn't address the problem.
the chief has done some great things but I see things going in the direction.
once again, if there is no enforcement mechanism, how do we address the issue.
>> perhaps we just look to bringing the entire law enforcement community, including tso, constables as well into a greater recommitment of community policing.
>> I think also, I always hear about what the county can do.
I know what your role is basically but the county has a lot of power.
what I'm saying is on these kinds of issues we need checks and balances.
I'm in the --not saying the county can balance, but your weight is very important.
if you can have a dialogue, it's not just the city of Austin but also the county, and I think too often we allow one body to dominate the conversation.
I think most times when it comes to the law, the da and prosecutors, I find it suspicious when it comes to police issues regarding black people somehow they can't get an indictment.
I think it's systemic and an institutional problem.
I think this is a very valuable report in terms of how to solve this problem.
it says primarily us must have transparency and accountable.
we don't have it in this city still.
>> thank you very much.
>> thank you, nelson.
let me say this to you, thank you for this particular letter.
I didn't know that this particular letter that you sent us and we have a copy of it and we see a lot of the recommendations that have been made from the united states justice department, let me ask just one question.
>> sure.
>> how much follow-up has there been as far as implementing or looking into some of these recommendations that the united states justice department made the particular recommendationsa lot of follow-up for the most part.
my concern, though, and I like to repeat this again, when the doj did a final letter and apd did the press conference, my e-mail came out about four hours later.
the kid was killed three hours later.
despite the so-called implementation, I'm concerned that some of the attitudes and behaviors still exist.
once again, there is no consequence.
if you can do this and there's no consequence, what is the real incentive?
none.
>> okay.
>> thank you very much.
>> I have some additional information for you, if you don't mind receiving it.
>> I'd love to receive it.
>> thanks.
>> mr. Priest.
>> thank you, morris priest.
I did want to say I appreciate mr. Nelson linder from.
naacp and I would hope I would get a chance the speak with him about some of the comments he has made.
since this is a presentation made from the president of the Austin chapter of the naacp, some of the comments he has made that the city of Austin and fire department being a real embarrassment and some of the other conths he has made regarding that white people should appear black people after the last situation down at the city where they did the that than alsanders, I think we all need the look at our part in how we address one another and how we look at these matters.
I think that the proper venue is not this court, but another court, a judicial court, not a Commissioners court.
I think that some of the things that I have seen in the city, whether mr. Linder has been involved in with the relays at high land mall and other issues, they haven't been quite, the situation just wasn't as it was presented.
so I think that if we are going to have these discussions, we need to make sure whether ipd or each of us individually or the naacp, we ought to all look at our part in fostering une the I in the community.
pretty much that is all I have to say.
thank you.
>> thank you, morris.
>> thank you mr. Priest.
item 28 is to consider and take appropriate action on pilot initiative--
>> I have a comment.
I was trying to get here.
>> very brief.
>> okay.
I want to say I appreciate mr. Linder.
I'm ronnie refer seed.
I want to say I appreciate mr. Lynner and his efforts, but one thing he fell short of was to stop the killing, we're talking about babies, over 50 percent of all black babies conceived in this country are e terminated by the abortion industry.
>> mr. Refer seed, that has nothing do with this item.
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