Travis County Commissioners Court
Tuesday, May 17, 2011 (Agenda)
Item 12
Number 12, consider and take appropriate action on the following regarding an application by benchmark wastewater group to tceq to spread domestic septic waste in the littig area south of manor, a, request to file letter in opposition to the application and b, request to file a letter with tceq requesting a public meeting.
mr. Eckstein we will get to your item after this, hopefully before lunch.
I think we will not break for lunch at 12 noon, but when we do break we'll do it for an hour and a half because we don't have executive session this afternoon.
>> morning.
>> good morning, judge Biscoe, members of the Commissioners' court.
I'm john white, tnr, environmental officer.
with me is tom webber, environmental quality program manager.
we received a notice from tceq regarding a proposed septic application site in eastern Travis County, approximately 78 acres.
this would be a register straiks application with -- registration application with tceq.
we have an opportunity at this point to request a public meeting or make other comments on the application.
the opportunity for requesting a public meeting would be based upon the fact that there is already some substantial public interest in this.
additionally we have some questions regarding the completeness of the application.
in addition we've got some concerns whether a registration is the appropriate avenue for approval of this site by tceq versus a permit application.
additionally this project would be subject to Travis County's solid waste siting ordinance and a development to permit and we have not received any application in that regard as yet.
tom webber has prepared --
>> did you submit that particular expression on the solid waste siting ordinance, did we submit that actually to these persons at this time to get them to respond to the ordinance in itself?
>> we've had some preliminary discussions with them.
and mr. Webber was out to the site on Friday to take a look at it.
so there's some ongoing discussion with regarding that that they're aware of the requirement.
>> okay.
>> now, mr. Webber is prepared two different letters.
one would be a letter that requests a public meeting.
the other would be a letter commenting on the application and in fact preliminary opposition to the tceq registration based upon some inadequacies and some -- and the lack of consistency at this point with Travis County's solid waste siting ordinance.
I think tom has given you copies of each of those proposed letters for your review.
>> we received, I guess, several e-mails from the residents opposing this particular application from benchmark.
of course what I've done, though, for the record, I have submitted those e-mails to the county clerk that shows opposition to this process as far as benchmark is concerned.
and I do see that a is a letter from the Commissioners' court to oppose this particular situation.
and then, of course, b is actually the letter to the tceq requesting a public meeting.
now, let me ask this question about tceq's public meeting because I want to make sure that if the court decides to approve a and b on this particular item today, I want to make sure that the b portion as far as the public meeting is notified accurately and promptly whereby the person that want to attend this public meeting would have an opportunity to do so.
so where nothing will slip through the crack and the folks will be able to be there to participate in this meeting before tceq.
so how can we manage that to make sure that proper notification is given to these persons that have shown opposition to this and as far as public notice.
how will that happen.
>> there are a couple of things, Commissioner.
one is that we would be formally requesting a public meeting and presumably there will be some response from tceq.
if they do set a public meeting it will be up to them and to the applicant to make sure that the statutorily and the regulatorily required persons are all notified of this.
we'll also get information on it and we'll be able to notify folks that we know our potentially -- are potentially interested in this.
>> generally Commissioner -- for the record, tom webber with tnr.
generally what we will do is as they get incoming mail from interested parties they will add them to a mailing list.
and so when they determine to have the public meeting they would likely send that notice to each person who is registered in interest.
>> so an appropriate address --
>> mailing address.
>> mailing address.
so there will be direct nexus between tceq, if they allow this public meeting, the nexus would be the address that they show at this time for that type of communicating to take place?
how do they do that?
I'm still curious about the how because -- I'm sorry, go ahead.
>> there's standard notice that is provided to the county judge to all the landowners within one quarter mile to the health officials and then in addition any person who -- and I believe they've been receiving letters from various residents, particularly in the park east neighborhood that they're interested.
so tceq would likely have all those persons registered in their list and would get notice.
>> okay.
I just want to make sure that everything goes across smoothly and of course the line of communication, that door is left open.
because the last thing I would like to see happen is that persons would notify me or anybody else in this court and say well, court members, I never did get the notice in the mail or no one ever told me about this particular meeting.
if tceq decides to allow a public meeting to take place this this particular item.
so judge, I would like to -- there may be people here that would like to come and testify on this or say -- because we do have a lot of backup on that as far as e-mails and things that persons have spoken.
there may be someone here who wants to speak to this.
>> is there a representative here from applicant?
would you like to give comments at this time?
please do so.
if you would give us your name we would be happy to get your comments.
afterwards we will hear from residents who have come down.
tell us about this and why in your view it's a project that the court should not object.
>> my name is robert kaiser.
this application came across, I have 120 acres.
as you know, there is no groundwater in the manor area.
everything has to be water that is shipped in.
one thing there is a lot of is septic tanks and one of the biggest problems we've seen all along, septic tanks fail so they have to be pumped.
so one of the things that we probably did wrong was the guy who gave me this idea in the first place happened to be a guy drawing septics for me and he was from hays county, benchmark.
it should have been taken in my farm's name, which is windsor farm.
now, there are about 200,000 farmers and ranchers across the united states that use septic water because we're in drought.
we need water.
number two is where most of our septic water goes now is into the lockhart, bastrop and the small town water supplies.
now, those towns are getting to their peak of where they can go.
so you know, I thought there's two things that we should use here.
number one is because there is groundwater, no groundwater and because there's a drought, how do I get water out?
I know when mr. Webber came out this weekend he said he went to google earth and looked at it.
you will find my ranch is one of the prettiest areas in east Austin, east Travis County.
the reason being that I have one of the best farmers from elgin.
so it stays green.
let me make sure you understand one other thing.
I live in the middle of this property.
this is not something I'm -- I live over in the west part of town and have the ranch out here that I want to put a bunch of trash on.
that is not what this application is about.
I have had -- this morning I go out and somebody has beat my mailbox up.
I've had ugly letters.
I've had all these other things, and none of these people understand that this is what's good for us because it's taking stuff that they're having to put out because of their septic systems and we don't have wastewater systems. There's people who have been commenting from the living -- there's two or three little additions about two or three miles from me and they are sitting right next to minor's wastewater plant.
but the fact of the matter is the golf course.
a renowned new golf course out there does not have water.
it does not get water.
they've been cut off from the city.
so that part of the city and this county is drying up.
so I thought hey, here's a way to do this.
now, not only am I just saying -- I want these trucks to come over and they're just going to dump everything out in the property.
first off, they have to have -- they would have to have screens.
but we are taking this further.
my family lives on there.
don't think that I want accept taj that is going to have-- here's the problems in it.
the septag has paper products in it.
number two it has pathogens.
pathogens which make people sick.
don't think I am going to stick water on my property that is going to make me and my family sick.
number three is the smell.
I have people commenting from as far away as hutto.
if smell from my will ranch can get to hutto 30 miles away I will be really surprised about this, but I'm not going to sit in the middle of a smelly place either.
somebody wrote me a letter and said how can you do that to our land?
somebody says I'm across from a park, my road is next to a park.
it is not.
my land is surrounded by other large tracts of land.
and I've talked to some of those and told them, hey, listen, come over and look at it.
I am even willing to put a twitter account to let people know how I'm doing this.
I'm looking across the united states of how to make this septage more -- easier to take because let me tell you this is a product and a resource that we have not taken account of.
there's places -- other places in the united states which they really do use this a lot.
and there are a lot here in the state, I just happen to be the largest tract that's ever been in Travis County.
so I'm going to be dealing with it.
how do I get rid of the paper and plastic?
how do I get rid of the pathogens?
how do I get rid of the smell?
because those are the three things that are the most important things to me.
I am looking across the world.
we're planning to go to one group in georgia that has this.
and this is -- let me tell you, I'm an environmental lawyer.
let me say that ugly thing.
I'm a lawyer.
but I'm an environmental lawyer.
I've dealt with some of the big environmental issues in Travis County, east Austin, the tank farm was one of my cases.
>> I don't remember you in the tank farm days and we were the ones to orchestrate to shut that facility down.
but of course I don't recall your involvement at all in that.
>> I was lawrt who filed the first lawsuits.
and got the things moved under the settlements.
>> well, I don't recall your name.
but anyway, go ahead.
>> so my intent here is two things.
one is to use a resource that is out there and that needs to be used.
and two, something that as we see in Travis County, as we do more aerobic systems, other systems like that that are hard to work, we're getting more ump pumping.
and those people, Travis County is having to go in force more things with these tanks and so on because so much of it is going out of the ground.
this is a way, if I'm able to accomplish this, I'm able to get this registration and we are able to create a methodology for taking the septage, taking the three things I talked about, the paper and plastic, the smell and the pathogens out of it.
we have created another resource for Texas in Travis County.
that's what this is about.
I am not a person who tries to create problems. I am a person who tries to create solutions.
I think this is a solution that is noteworthy today.
>> how many acres of land do you own?
>> I own 120 acres.
as you can see, only 78 or something like that.
because one of the things everybody says, this is going to go into streams and lakes and so on.
I have wilbarger creek that goes along one far end of my property.
but we are so far back from that any time there's a tributary, any time there's a little line of where water can -- where it con ge grates and then goes down those are areas that are taken out of this.
that's why you can see only 78 acres out of 120 because I'm not going to go to anything that goes into a water supply.
so not only are those things I'm going to take out, I'm also not going to any water supply?
>> this will be a commercial business?
>> no, I'm a ranch.
all this is going to do is more for livestock.
>> do what?
>> livestock.
cows.
>> but the waste is coming from where?
>> the waste is coming from residential areas all the way around.
it will all be in Travis County.
I know benchmark is in hays county and that's who -- it was a mistake on my side of letting him put his name on the application.
I didn't even realize it until about two weeks ago his name was on the application.
I thought it was just my name.
and so the waste that we're talking about, the septage that we're talking about will come just from eastern Travis County.
you go on the street today and you're going to see a septage tank, a truck.
that's all this is.
>> let me ask you --
>> what's your name again?
>> it's robert kizer.
>> any other questions for mr. Kizer?
>> yes, judge.
earlier you may have heard me mention that we do have a solid waste siting ordinance.
and that particular ordinance sto look at minor and also major facilities when it comes to solid waste.
disposing of solid waste.
have you had a chance to review the ordinance that staff may have mentioned to you earlier.
and I know that they'll apply and look at it to see what -- you mentioned tributaries, you mentioned wilbarger creek?
you mentioned several things.
there may be other things within that set back of receptors within that ordinance that you have to comply with.
so I guess my question is have you had a chance to review that?
>> yes, sir.
>> I don't have a very close neighbor.
my house sits as much as about a mile -- three-quarters at least to a mile away from the next residence of any kind.
I am surrounded by large properties.
the people that are complaining, the people up in lockhart, on lookwood road are something like five or six, seven miles away from me.
there's not a large residential area in there.
there are about three miles away from me towards manor there are these three little housing additions, but they sit right next to their wastewater plant.
so there are no receptors, per se, around me.
it's basically animals.
I have 20 or 30 deer.
you don't see many deer out in east Travis County.
I never allow hunting on my property.
I have deer, I have dove, I have quail.
I have a lot of cows that roger brings on to it.
and so there's no receptors as far as what I'm understandingryou're asking.
no receptors close by.
the properties that are surrounding me have all been given notice and any of those that -- they all know who I am because we all have talked before.
so anybody who has had questions, they can call me up and I've said come on over.
and as far as even the people in the area, like I'm saying I'll set up a twitter account to let them know what we're doing.
it's to their benefit as well as it is mine.
>> within that particular ordinance, there are certain setbacks that required per receptor.
I have not had a chance to get with staff, by I did understand that they had introduced you to the solid waste siting ordinance.
now, another portion is that have you had a chance to talk with the neighbors in that area, the neighborhood associations and other affected parties in that particular area?
have you had a chance to sit down and discuss what you're telling us today?
>> Commissioner, I have not because the fact that -- what this would do, if I put the dirtiest septage out there, which the statute allows you to register straight septage.
that means you take the dirty stuff that comes straight out of the septic and you spread it across the ground.
the ones that would be affected even if I took that dirty septage because anything that is a tributary, a creek or otherwise, we have already got the setback.
that's why there's only 78 acres.
but the people who were affected by that, who would be affected if there was smell to it, if I wasn't just going to -- if I was just going to put the really dirty stuff out on it, is the property owners around me because that's the acreage, large acreage around me.
250 acres, 350 acres, 175 acres.
so those are the ones that surround me.
and those would be the ones that would be actually affected.
I don't know how somebody can smell septic field from three miles away.
but even when mr. Webber came out we've got the maps that show and I think judge Biscoe got a set of the papers and that shows those set backs against anything where there would be a runoff.
there is not going to be a runoff on this property that's going to affect any kind of water that affects anyone or anybody.
the park springs subdivision is way up above me.
they are probably -- when we look at geographically they're probably 100 to 150 feet above me because I'm down at the bottom.
I'm at the far bottom of the slope in that area.
>> what would be the volume?
and what would be the capacity of five of these particular trucks that will be hauling in septic?
and I guess let me ask you this question: is it filtered before delivery or filtered after delivery?
>> it is filtered as it is delivered, number one.
>> after?
>> let's make sure we put this in perspective.
we're only talking on this property, we're talking five to six trucks per day.
and probably only about five days a week.
>> per day?
>> yeah.
>> we're not talking hundreds of trucks.
I've seen some of these comments about all this trucking is going to affect.
we're talking about the same trucks that are going up and down those roads right now because they're going to these different septic systems to pump them out.
that's all this is.
this is not going to change traffic, in fact, there's a big asphalt plant down not about a half mile down from me.
and that asphalt plant affects more as far as emissions, air emissions that I'll ever even think about in my worst time.
the trucking from that, there are probably a few hundred trucks a day that go from that smawlt plant and from capitol city aggregate.
and so my influence on this has been so overrated it's unbelievable.
>> let me ask you another question.
do you intend to restrict your intake from just Travis County residents or within this particular registration -- or would this particular registration allow you the ability to expand your operation where you can cover other residents other than within Travis County for that septic release?
>> Commissioner, I will be limited to a certain number of gallons.
it comes to do with the 78 acres.
and of those six trucks my belief is eastern Travis County.
there may be some from -- see, I'm only about a mile and a half from the bastrop county line, and that's kind of your community.
elgin, manor, that's the community.
that's where the wastewater will come from is that community.
I don't know that I can -- I promise you today that it won't be a truck that's a -- that comes from a septic that's halfway over.
>> in other words, across into bastrop county, on the other side of the county line.
>> but nothing -- I'm telling you that there is enough trucks that are now having to go to lockhart, bastrop, probably taylor, all of those water supplies is where they dump it in.
the problem being that bastrop and lockhart and the rest of these areas are growing, bludgeoning population.
as a result, they're having to expand that, and this just takes that expansion to where they can -- their city can expand.
so I believe that it will all come probably within a 10-mile range of me, five mile range of me.
>> okay.
there may be some residents here, judge, also.
>> mr. Kizer or any objection in joining us in asking the tceq for a public meeting?
>> judge, I'm willing to let anybody have knowledge that they can have if that's what it takes for people to get knowledge of it.
>> that's what I would recommend.
I think it would be good for us to just indicate to tceq that Travis County requests a public meeting and that we have chatted with you and that you have no opposition.
>> that's fine.
>> now, I think that will provide a whole lot more formal notice to residents who have questions, plus the expert from tceq would be at that meeting hopefully and able to address any questions that you and Travis County cannot address.
okay?
>> yes, sir.
>> now, a few residents have come down on this item.
so this is your opportunity to address the court if you would come fort and give us your name and we would be happy to get your comments.
if we could get one of you to move to the end there, that would make four chairs available.
this gentleman in the orange shirt is first.
>> my anymore is a kenneth -- my name is kenneth league.
I am the property owner directly adjacent to mr. Kizer's property.
my house is about half a mile from his.
my house is actually closer to the dump site that he's proposing than his own house is.
I was not notified of this by mr. Kizer.
>> you were not?
>> I was notified by my bee keeper who keeps bees on my property.
he found out through the neighborhood association that he belongs to.
it is my understanding that no one was notified of this by mr. Kizer or the company seeking the permit.
the only notification came when the permit was submitted to the tceq they're required to notify certain neighborhood associations in the area.
I was not notified personally in the quarter mile radius that was referred to, I would certainly be within that.
my property and mr. Kizer's property share a border, which is almost three-quarter of a mile long, along a major tributary to the cottonwood creek.
I am a registered professional career in the state of Texas.
I seek permits from the tceq for wastewater disposal systems on a regular bays as part of my job.
I have designed some of the largest wastewater treatment facilities in Texas or in Austin.
I designed the system for plaza on the lake, the largest evap poe transportation beds in the area.
I designed a major line for the Round Rock wastewater system.
mr. Kaiser was referring to a by which which he was hoping to develop to remove solids, pathogens and odor from the septage.
that process is well-known.
it's aerobic digestion.
it's what takes place in sewage treatment plants, which is where this material currently goes.
it's pumped from septic tanks and taken to septic treatment plants and added to their material and it is processed and it is decomposed into sludge and to effluent water, which is then treated with chlorine and released into nearby creeks.
the implications seemed to be that this material was currently being dumped raw into waterways.
nothing could be further from the truth.
this type of material is actually worse than sewage or worse than raw sewage and it's worse than sludge for disposal.
this is the material, the conts traited solid material that goers in the bottom of septic tanks that is undigestible and at some point it fills up the tank and it must be pumped periodically.
I own a septic tank.
I am familiar with the project.
it is pumped and has to be taken into a treatment plant, dumped into the treatment plant as raw sewage and digested and processed correctly.
the idea of taking this material and just spreading it on land and hoping that it would somehow be digested is inconceivable to me that the material would be digested in any kind of way that would be satisfactory.
even the water that comes from the digestion process is the material that goes into a drain field in the septic tank and it has a considerable amount of odor.
the material we're talking about is probably several thousand times more concentrated.
like I said, the property line between mr.kaiser's property and mine is a major tributary to the cottonwood creek.
it floods on a regular basis.
I've lived at the property for 10 years and at least four times that I know of that creek has been in excess of 800 feet wide during heavy storms. My feeling is that the land upstream of the the cottonwood tributary has been subject to development in recent years.
currently listed 25 and 100 year floodplains with the fema maps are probably inaccurate.
I would think that much of the area that is being discussed as a dumping zone is probably either very close to the 25 and 100 year floodplain or within them.
the area behind the floodplain is also a very, very steep hill.
I don't know if that's part of the dumping zone or not, but if it were, generally speaking, hills of that steepness have a tremendous amount of runoff even during normal rains and any material dumped on that hill would then go into the floodplain.
so my thought is that very little of the property being discussed is both outside of the floodplain and outside of areas that have slopes that are prohibitively high.
my feeling is the area is very inappropriate for this sort of thing and the best use for this material is how it's disposed of now to be put into a septic treatment plant and treated normally and then chlorinated at the end and released back into natural waterways after it's been processed and chlorinated.
I would suggest that if this permit does proceed that tceq ought to require as part of that a full fema study of the floodplains in the area to verify that the floodplains for this tributary and the neighboring cottonwood creek have not changed.
and that would be a full map revision, not a letter revision.
>> may I ask you as a wastewater engineer, is the sludge off of an aerobic system -- because we struggled with this for a long time, the idea of beneficial sludge applications for agricultural.
is sludge from an aerobic system appropriate for agricultural -- for amending soil for agricultural purposes.
>> the primary problem with sludge, sludge from an aerobic treatment plant, it can become concentrated because it's the concentrated federal that builds up over a long period of time that is completely undigestible to the bacteria in the system.
the two primary problems are buildup of heavy metals, which aren't removed in the process and they settle out, mercury, lead and that sort of thing, and then pathogens, which obviously are a problem.
the problem is removing the pathogens is not as hard as removing the heavy metal.
you can introduce the chlorine and so forth.
you can get it to the point where it's been sterilized, so the pathogen problem can be eliminated.
but that's relatively expensive.
but then you still have the heavy metal problem and certain other non-organic chemicals which build up in the material which can be harmful.
I think currently that material when it's disposed of in agricultural way it's specified that it can't be used in an area that's producing food for human services.
I think you can use it to grow crops that would then be used as animal feed, but not for human food.
>> we're not even talking about that class of sludge in this application.
>> no.
we're talking about -- we're talking about a concentrated -- that sludge is like a jelly.
it's a thick brown jelly.
and it can actually be fairly odorless because it is just a concentration of non-organic material that builds up at the bottom of a waste treatment plant.
what we're referring to as septage, which is basically raw sewage.
it's what you -- what comes out of your house and goes into a septic tank and builds up in the septic language over a long period of time in a non-aerobic system.
so there's very little digestion that goes on in that process.
so basically it's just concentrated sewage.
>> any other questions for mr. Lee?
>> thank you very much.
>> thank you.
>> yes?
ma'am, your name?
>> judge and Commissioners, my name is doris zachs and I'm a resident in the area.
I was informed of this through our park springs association.
and peashtly they got notice of this -- apparently they got notice of this application.
it did list benchmark as the applicant, trucking in 3,000 gallons per day from hays county.
mr. Kizer is saying this is coming from Travis County.
in any case it's a totally inappropriate land use.
this is a residential area, agricultural area.
there are homes in close proximity.
I have neighbors that I've lived there about seven years in the area.
I used to live in central Austin.
I have neighbors that have lived on my street for 20 years.
and there used to be a septage dump down on taylor lane clos to 969 years ago, which is now -- cattle is now on it.
and they said the odor was horrible.
they said every time you drove down that road and came down the hill the odor was horrible.
so these are homes, people's homes, and we want to preserve our neighborhood.
>> any questions for ms. Zachs?
>> were you one of the ones that submitted a letter of opposition emailwise?
>> yes.
>> okay.
I thought so.
I thought I recognized the name.
what I did was submit that information, the opposition letters to this particular application, I guess, even if it's under registration, to tceq that has been submitted to the clerk for the official record.
that way folks that want to hear -- see exactly the thing that you suggested in your email will also have a record of that.
so thank you for your comments.
>> thank you.
>> after you've finished we do need your seat in case there are others who would like to give testimony today.
so as seats become available please feel free to come forward.
mr. Priest?
>> thank you, judge, commission ers.
morris priest speaking on my own behalf.
I wanted to make a brief comment and a request to the court.
many people have had to leave that wanted to speak on this item and I was -- I'm running out on my meter outside too.
but I was hoping that the court would allow the people that are here now to sign, you know, if you could provide a piece of paper and let us just write our names in opposition because we may or may not all be able to speak.
but I did want the court to let the court know that I guess there's probably 20 people that I know of that are in opposition of this and if we could leave a record of who is here in opposition I would appreciate the court entering that with the clerk.
if -- is that something that can be done?
>> it's fine with me.
mr. Williams?
>> judge Biscoe, Commissioners.
I'm john a.
williams. I use my middle initial this time because you will be hearing later from another member of our association, john e.
williams, who knows much more about these things than I do.
as a point of -- I should make for the record a statement, he and I are not related in any way by blood or marriage.
I also want to remind you that for item 12-b you have a deadline of may 19th.
tceq rules say that a request for a public meeting must be received by the 19th.
I won't spend a lot of time repeating what other people are going to say or have said.
I do want to make sure that you know the city of manor, and this city lies within the e.t.j.
of the city of manor, the city of manor has written a letter to tceq not only requesting a public meeting, but opposing the project and calling the land -- I believe it's strategically important to manor's long range expansion.
I also want to remind you that the application is for a registration and your staff has told you that they have questions about, you know, whether that's the appropriate thing, if it should require a permit instead.
and that application would allow all sorts of things that mr. Kizer has told you he's not going to do.
I have not seen any evidence that mr. Kizer or the rancher that he says is operating the land started out by taking soil samples for the purpose of finding out what would be good on this land.
and then following that, the only evidence I've seen of soil samples being taken are being taken for the purpose of submitting them to tceq to meet the requirements.
I've seen no evidence that there was good planning as this proposal was being developed.
certainly neither the applicant nor the landowner approached Travis County to find out what the regulations were.
instead your county staff had to approach the landowner and the applicant to make them aware of their responsibilities.
I haven't seen any evidence that this is an agricultural use of the land.
it seems to me that we have seen evidence that it's a commercial use of the land.
the only other thing I want to do is report to you on both the extent in terms of size and the depth of feeling in terms of intensity that this proposal has generated in my neighborhood.
I've been active in the neighborhood association for about five years now.
and this proposal marks the top of the scale of anything that I've seen in those five years.
I do know that several people who were here and wanted to speak did have to leave.
if I can ask the ones who are remaining, I guess there's a sign-up sheet going around or something, but if you folks would just stand up so that you know these are the people who not only feel strongly about the issue, but were able to stay past the 10:00 time certain that y'all had tried to give us.
and I appreciate that, judge Biscoe.
>> [one moment, please, for change in captioners]
>> I come from a parish where I can bring you at least 200 signatures of hispanic people who are underserved and this is despicable, because these children are going to be around, you know, that kind of pollution and just take heart to what is being asked here.
if this was your house, you know, your beginnings -- that's all that I have to say.
>> thank you.
>> thank you, ms. Galindo.
>> okay.
thank you, thank you, I just want to thank the court for letting us speak.
my name is anne
>> [indiscernible] I'm here on behalf of myself as a landowner in the neighborhood and also representative of the willburger creek conservation alliance.
we are concerned about the runoff into cotton wood creek and willbarringer.
in Pflugerville, with the new wastewater treatment plants coming in upstream, the floodplain is bound yet to expand yet again, I'm very concerned that all of the stuff that's going to be flowing into both of those creeks which are already impaired.
I know this from being down in the creek physically trying to clean up the trash out of the creek.
it stinks, so much trash in there already, I'm worried all of this septage is going to flow right downstream.
that's my main concern.
mr. Kizer is also part of a group of landlords called manor ranches limited.
which they are under deed restrictions not to be dumping, with extra septic tanks in the property.
the neighbors are looking at all of those, talking to -- to lawyers, you know, it is not in keeping with the deed restrictions he agreed to to do this.
he's not allowed to do a commercial operation on there.
so anyway, he's supposed to have one home on there.
anyway, I don't want to go on and on.
but lcra and the city of Austin have been doing testing, they are coming out again this week to do testing of wilbarger creek.
we're all concerned about water quality of the creeks trying to keep them as healthy as possible.
thank you so much.
>> thank you.
>> yes, sir.
>> good afternoon, I guess, judge Biscoe and Commissioners.
for the record my name is john e.
williams, I'm a landowner in the neighborhood area.
I raise goats.
to not surprise mr. Webber too much, I am now retired.
>> [laughter] as mr. Kizer pointed out and we will admit, and so state, septage can be used as fertilizer for crops.
if it is properly treated and in the proper place.
>> the indication by mr. Criers this material would be screened is the first indication that we have had of that.
it's not in the application.
that's one reason why we would not like to have a public meeting.
all sewage and septage contains debris, debris is defined by tceq rules as plastic, metal, glass that needs to be removed.
septic sites that I have personally visited over the past 10 years are strewn with these materials.
I don't need to describe them too much.
you can imagine.
but -- but -- but the second thing that we are concerned about are both pathogens and vector attraction.
vectors being flies and they are attracted to this type of material.
there are modern treatments on how to use this material.
I would have to back up and say in the 19th century people called it night soil.
they took their own night soil from their own outhouses, latrines and privies and put it on their own land.
now we are taking it from septic tanks far removed from the land where it's being disposed of.
farmers back in the 19th century were careful not to throw glass, metal, they didn't have plastics back then or wood in their night soil, so they didn't have to be removed.
now they do.
besides the -- as far as the pathogens and vector attraction is concerned, we've come a long ways since the 19 century.
the only treatment in the application indicated for either of those two concerns is lyme.
in essence the operator would be doing the same things that our ancestors did to their outhouses, privies and latrines, they would throw a scoop of lyme down the hole after each use.
in my experience, the only thing lyme does is it prevents fly larvae.
it doesn't do much as far as sanitation or destroying disease pathogens.
the current engineering sanitary engineering practice is aerobic, aerobic digest attacks both the disease organisms in the sewage and it solves the problem of odor.
almost immediately at sewage treatment plants, once air is pumped through the sewage, the odor goes away within moments.
the other thing that we would like to see done is some -- some basic rudimentary composting of this material before it's applied.
it doesn't have to be much.
tceq rules only require 124 degrees.
for a certain period of time that escapes me for the moment.
that doesn't require any expense, it just waiting for it to happen, mother nature does it for you.
we are also concerned about the buffer zones that mr. Kizer and the operator has indicated on their maps because there are two different maps and they are different buffer zones.
we don't believe that all of the water courses have been properly buffered out on his property.
there is also an 8% slope making the application area very awkward.
we are concerned about the current vegetation and the future vegetation in the buffer zones especially along the creeks.
because grazing and harvesting of the buffer zones for hay impairs their ability to absorb the nutrients that are being washed off.
as far as nutrients are concerned, we are concerned that the only calculation in the application was for the nitrogen needs of the cover crop.
we know today that nitrogen is rarely limiting.
it's phosphorus that's the problem.
if you've read about the bosque river a and the city of waco, the dairy farmers, 100 miles upstream from waco, phosphorus once it gets in the stream is there for generations, it's very difficult to remove.
we would like to see limitations based on phosphorus.
finally, we're concerned that mr. Kizer on his attorney's website described and promotes windsor farm rehabilitation center for substance abusers who have been sexually abused.
he evidently has a number of trailers on his property in anticipation of this happening.
we would consider that a type of public use that will be precluded by application of septics or sewage on his property or you would have to forgo applying appear stick to sewage for up to a year before allowing that kind of public use.
I don't know if mr. Kizer is also aware that he cannot simultaneously graze cattle and apply septage.
he has to stop the septage, according to tceq rules, he has to stop the septage application for at least 30 days before turning cattle on to it.
he also has to stop the septage application for at least 30 days before mowing it for harvesting.
he expects to get four crops of hay per year and graze.
that doesn't leave but about four months of the year in which he would actually be having to apply the septage.
the calculation in the application and the permit that would be issued by tceq gives an annual rate.
we are concerned that that permit or that authorization, that registration would allow him to apply up to 3 times the safe limit of septage on his property during the four months that he would be applying it.
thank you.
>> thank you.
>> thank you, mr. Williams.
>> any questions for mr. Williams?
>> does the tceq have any regulations with regard to the rate at which septage is applied?
>> they calculate a number of gallons per year, I think and it's based on the amount of nitrogen, the nitrogen needs of the plants that are being grown for the whole year.
>> well, that doesn't seem very helpful.
>> it's not a per day rate that I'm aware of.
>> no daily rate.
>> okay.
>> no daily rates.
>> okay.
thank you very much.
>> yes, sir.
>> my name is dave
>> [indiscernible] I'm the vice-president of the park springs neighborhood association.
I'm pretty familiar with mr. Davis.
>> how are you doing?
are you doing all right?
>> good, good.
>> you've heard from the experts, I'm definitely not an expert.
but I'm an interested party.
eastern Travis County is -- gets everything that nobody else wants, dump yards, low income housing, gravel pits, tank farms, one of them pretty close to an elementary school, we have sludge dumping, we have two airports, we have asphalt plants, cement plants, storage of trash containers on blake manor road that look like crap.
and now they want to dump human waste on it.
we're getting tired of it, real tired of it, we're mad as hell, we ain't going to take it anymore.
we will be down here as often as necessary to aggravate you, if possible, judge Biscoe, but -- but, you know, we would like for it to stop.
and let us live a normal life without having to fight everything.
give us a break, will ya?
thanks a lot for any support we get from you.
>> thank you very much.
>> thank you.
>> thank you for being here.
>> yes, sir?
>> judge Biscoe, county Commissioners, thank you for allowing us to come before you.
mid name is rod
>> [indiscernible] I moved to -- close to manor because it was nice, beautiful and a nice area to live.
but seems like I have known about the east Austin all of my life, because I fought it, also, I think Commissioner Ron Davis knows that, I have known him for a long time, also Commissioner Margaret Gomez, we go way back.
we are concerned.
we don't want human waste.
we have everything else.
it's got to stop.
it's got to stop somewhere.
we come before you asking you for your help.
like I said, no mas, no more.
health problems. We don't need that.
we want good things in our east Austin, we are tired of all of this stuff coming into us.
it's time for it to stop.
we come before you, asking you, to please help us and not allow this -- and I do want to thank you for your time.
>> thank you for yours.
>> thank you very much.
>> thank you.
>> hi, I'm not a public and doing this is totally outlet of my league.
several years ago the city of Austin came out and dumped treated septage, whatever you want to call it, on the property across from us.
and I had planted a beautiful garden.
and the week after they planted it, everything got mold on it.
okay?
and all of the trees got these little bumps all -- all the leaves on the trees got these bumps on it.
and they started dropping their leaves.
and it took years for our trees to come back where they -- they didn't have all of these nasty little bumps all over 'em.
I wish that I could have saved them to show you.
but it was vile.
the smell was vile.
I couldn't -- the plants in my garden died.
and I had -- I was -- I had a mimosa tree.
and the years before I had harvested all of the leaves, seed pods.
before they were nice creamy white seed pods kind of golden and afterwards, they were brown and nasty.
and we were across the street from it, quite a ways down.
I just wish that you could see the damage that it did to the area on my property.
it took years and years for it to go away and it's only been the drought that's -- that's helped my property.
so --
>> thank you.
>> ma'am, can we get your name?
>> my name?
I'm Karen nearly.
you're family with larry.
>> right.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> for the record, thank you.
>> good afternoon, Commissioners, judge.
my name is david gilbarten, my wife and I live on lockwood road in the park springs neighborhood association.
I want to first thank mr. Kizer for being brave enough and good enough to come here today and see his neighbors.
and I want to thank my neighbors for showing up and as you know some of us already had to leave for a variety of reasons.
I'm probably going to get a ticket for, you know, not having enough money in the parking meter.
I just -- I think that mr. Kizer probably has good intentions as he's indicated.
I think -- I think that takes a certain amount of vision to think about proper use of -- of sewage and how this can enhance the environment and, you know, he's an environmental lawyer, he should know a lot about that.
I -- I just think, though, that it's telling that we haven't seen him at any neighborhood association meetings.
he could have -- when he was thinking about this, he could have come to one of our meetings, and discussed it with us.
either publicly or privately.
I think that's very telling that he has not taken the time to do that.
he's taken a lot of time to initiate this project, but not talked with his neighbors.
if he had done that, that might have gone a long way to resolving some of these issues.
before we got to this point right now.
but anyway -- I hope that we can talk with him sometime at a neighborhood association meeting in the near future.
we meet several times a year.
they are very good meetings.
we have a great neighborhood association.
that's one the primary reasons my wife and I moved to this neighborhood.
so thank you for the work that you all do and thank you to my neighbors.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> those are the residents who have chosen to give comments today.
>> judge?
>> Commissioner Davis.
>> with that and as you know, we're dealing with a very traumatic situation here.
a lot of drama and expression, heartfelt concerns that the community has brought forth.
some of them have testified in writing and some have taken the time to come in and testify before in court orally.
of course, I'm, you know, we're talking about human waste distribution here.
that's what we're talking about.
of course, the process that has to take place and of course we are going to try to address what the process allows us to do.
and of course I'm going to ask that the court support 12 a and 12 b, one is the letter of opposition to the benchmark's application and then the second one, 12 b, is the portion where a public meeting will be held before the tceq and hopefully the tceq will honor this request.
and we'll just go from there.
but I would like to move approval of 12 a and b and also if there is a need for the letter that we -- that the court, if the court approves this, the letter that we sign-off showing opposition to this particular application by benchmark could be distributed for those that would like to have a copy of that letter.
so I would like to put that motion before the court.
>> seconded by Commissioner Gomez.
mr. Kizer, is it still okay to indicate to tceq that you have no opposition to a public meeting?
it does seem to me that would be beneficial.
any more discussion on the motion?
all in favor?
that passes by unanimous vote.
thank all of y'all for coming council.
>> thank you.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
