Travis County Commissioners Court
November 17, 2009,
Item 5
Let's call up five a bit early, probably -- presentation.
5.
receive presentation from nelson e.
linder, president of the Austin chapter of the naacp, regarding response by district attorney and Travis County to the use of deadly force by area law enforcement officers.
>> mr.
nelson?
we did get an e-mail from the district attorney, rosemary lindbergh indicating that she would meet with you but not attend today.
>> good morning, judge, good morning, fellow Commissioners, it's an honor and pleasure to be here.
i will try to be as brief as possible.
i will tell you why I'm here.
you have a packet there you can read later on your own time.
just for your information.
but I want to talk about the fact that in the city right now we have a very serious problem dealing with police misconduct and also I think injustice.
also, there is a -- there's a
>> [indiscernible] complaint filed here by naacp in 2004, now you have the department of justice investigation, the city of Austin is on
>> [indiscernible] assistance, that means there's a problem here with justice in the black community under the 14th and 4th amendment.
let me tell you why I'm here this morning.
in one of these documents there's a letter from a grand jury, it was a 403 judicial district court in 2003.
this grand jury actually indicted officer scott for the killing of jessie owens, but made a public statement to Austin saying in this city there's a double standard when it comes to law enforcement in the black community.
they were concerned that in this city we weren't mobilizing to address that concern.
that was 2003.
right now this is 2009, we are having the same conversation.
let me tell you why we're having that conversation.
those attorneys know there's 18 usc 242, that's the old federal statute that deals with civil rights and alleged police misconduct.
but it's based on what they call willful intent.
when we study Austin, Texas and in fact the most recent shooting here, sanders, it's not a matter of willful intent, it's criminal negligence.
here's the problem.
while the city primarily has the authority to address these issues, the city is not really an enforcement mechanism, the county is.
our question is when we look at this issue historically in the county of travis, it's almost like the -- they don't feel -- the d.a.'s office don't feel comfortable prosecuting police misconduct.
it's almost impossible, we believe, to get an indictment, despite the fact that there's evidence here that there's wrong doing.
here's our concern, we think that the county as an enforcement body is more vigorous, should take more issues from a county standpoint because in reality, in this country, we have a system based on checks and balances.
if you have the city being its own judge and jury, we're not going to get justice in these cases in the black community.
we want the county to take a more vigorous role to take a look from a different standpoint, ask the question why when cops do bad things in the community here they never seem to get indicted.
that's a fundamental question that we have to get answered here in this city.
until the d.a.'s office gets involved and does rigorous investigations we are not going to solve the problem.
in the most recent shooting we had a private firm doing an investigation about police action here, they found e-mails and other behavior that was really unacceptable.
but your d.a.
did the same kind of investigation but had no comments about that.
they didn't find the e-mails, didn't address the policies and procedures.
we are saying if you are an enforcement body, why can't you address behavior that
>> [indiscernible] the loss of life.
that question has been asked around the country.
so my real concern is under 18 usc 242, if a police officer violates a person's rights under willful intent they should be properly prisoners cuted.
under the -- prosecuted.
under the current statute here -- why in all of these cases that keep continuing, we can't get indictments when in reality we see the violations.
i think as a body the county, in my opinion, being the most progressive of the institutions, let me give you a compliment first.
we have done well on cameras, digital technology.
first agency to deal with mental health of the officers on the street.
your track record fortunately is much better than the city.
this is really an appeal for you guys to take your job a little more extensive because all agencies must interact together, not just the city.
it's Travis County and city problem altogether.
i just think from my standpoint as president of the naacp the county can do a lot more to challenge and scrutinize how your agencies are involved in police misconduct and police brutality.
in fact the public for the most part -- the role you guys play in trying to make these issues, what we are saying is that the d.a.
is probably the most important component in these shootings, but yet it's almost like we can predict that in almost every case despite violations it's going to be a no deal.
how do we mobilize as a court, as a county, begin to have more power, more education, and let the public know that you are a body that wants to enforce the law here when it's necessary and I maintain that you read the d.o.j.
recommendations here, these are very serious allegations.
and also data.
read the complaint Austin naacp, this is pretty hard evidence that there's a problem here.
as said by the 403rd grand jury.
once again, when we have shootings here in the black community, the cops are not being prosecuted.
final point: in 2003, scott was indicted here, criminal negligent homicide, thrown out of court on a technicality.
daniel rocha was killed, no document.
michael olson, scott and killed, no indictment, so the question becomes if people are violating people's rights and procedures, why are there no indictments?
i think somebody needs to explain that to the public because once again until you get people who are indicted for taking those lives here, this problem is not going to stop and the city of Austin has proven it
>> [indiscernible] this possibility.
by the way, they shouldn't be the judge and jury anyway.
you guys should be.
we are counting on more county support, more mobilization, also more education to the public about the role you guys play in ensuring in Travis County that there's a 14th amendment enforced here.
i will stop there and -- and I guess if allowed will entertain questions.
>> that's fine.
but do we have the packet of information that you referred to?
>> yes, sir.
>> okay.
Commissioner Davis --
>> let me have --
>> if you have six --
>> yeah.
>> thank you.
>> thank you very much.
>> thank you very much for that.
>> thank you.
>> did you understand the judge when he said early that's true the d.a.
is willing to meet with you -- earlier that the d.a.
is willing to meet with you.
>> yes, sir.
in fact that's laudable.
here's my concern.
i want to make this point final.
given the d.a.'s office track record in these past cases, there is a lack of confidence.
that's why I mentioned 18 usc.
under that statute you can actually bring in special prosecutors to do investigations.
they don't have the local connections, that the local d.a.'s might have sometimes.
what we are saying is if a process is not occurring, sometimes you have to go outside the local area and have federal investigations.
that's what we're saying.
i'm not saying that we need to do that now.
i'm saying it's time to hold that conversation and getting all people accountable.
i don't think as taxpayers we can afford to have an office here.
prosecuting, where prosecution might be necessary based on the available evidence.
i certainly understand the judge's comments, we are eager to engage the d.a.
in this conversation.
but once again based on the track record, the most recent case, we're very, very concerned and our confidence is very low right now about this whole issue.
>> may I ask a question?
with regard to -- one concern that I have is that the federal rules do require that the investigation of the d.a.'s level be scoped down to -- down to intent.
to wellful intent.
i completely hear what you are saying with regard to -- that's a high burden to meet.
for indictment.
so -- so in recognition that the -- that the federal law and -- and some of the evidence law also requires the d.a.
to scope down to such a narrow view, what I'm hearing from you and I just wanted to throw it out there and see if I'm hearing accurately, is that the scope of the investigations is too narrow to get to what you feel is the real concern, which is the use of force policy of the law enforcement community.
is that -- is that accurate.
>> that is absolutely correct.
i will add further, around the country right now there have been attempts made by different people and different organizations to amend 242 to go from just local intent to begin to address negligence.
and the jessie owens case in 2003, that grand jury returned an indictment.
it's historical.
one of the question is what did they see that allowed them to come back with criminal negligence?
the further question is it was thrown out by the d.a.
and judge, which to me is quite disturbing.
>> would it be a useful -- would you think it would be useful for us rather than wait for the -- the u.s.
code to be amended to change the standard of -- of -- the standard of intent, instead for us to perhaps explore ways to -- to get at the -- to get at the use of force policy generally?
rather than in these specific cases?
because I'm afraid if we wait for the u.s.
code to be amended, we will let an opportunity pass.
>> that's precisely the point.
that the county begin to mobilize and again to look at the use of force policies.
because in reality, if they are not working, not being enforced, to me there's a violation that needs to be addressed.
if there's no enforcement mechanism that needs to stop.
that is very clear.
if we don't enforce these codes of conduct and rules that exist, why do we have them in the first place.
the public doesn't understand how you can shoot somebody in the city blank and kill them and be terminated and not be prosecute.
i think it's time to explain that process, find out where the flaws are and more importantly engage them local limit I think the county has a very important role to play this that process in terms of pushing this issue to front and center.
>> I would like to -- to -- I would like to be helpful in that effort and I want to be -- to be -- I want to be -- mindful of my separate role from the prosecutorial role of the d.a.'s office.
i don't want to infringe upon the -- the prosecutorial discretion of the district attorney's office and knowing the constraints from the evidence rules and the code that those -- that those grand jury investigations operate under.
i think that -- that structurally it's a very good system.
for prosecution.
but I don't think that structurally it's the greatest system to look at best practices from a policy perspective in the continuum of force.
the decision is about continuum of force.
so I -- I want to -- agree with you that needs to be looked at.
i would like to be helpful in whatever way I can.
>> don't hesitate to -- to -- to -- the fact that -- please keep that connection that we have established over the years.
keep me in the loop on this.
i want to assist as much as I possibly can because it is significant.
and my opinion, I really feel that there are some things that -- that I think didn't go deep enough and-- in some of the -- some of the some of the persons of color in this community.
that's just my opinion.
now, of course, the investigation may have fallen short in some of these things, I really don't know, I want there on the grand jury, I really don't know exactly what a lot of things -- what shows.
but anything that I can do to assist as far as the collaboration with -- I think it's going to be necessary with the give governing bodies, to eliminate some of the things, not really get into the depths and gravity of the problem affecting this community as a whole, because it affects everybody.
i would like to be in the loop on that, make sure that we are able to get to the bottom of this, I'm letting you know and thank you for bringing it here.
>> thank you, I appreciate your offer.
>> okie-doke.
>> well, I think the two with the power to prosecute in Travis County are the county attorney and the district attorney, they are both pretty much autonomous of this court except funding.
you know, we fund both of them.
i think that -- that what we have, though, is the power of moral persuasion and a good relationship, good working relationship.
so to the extent that we can exercise both of those, exert them, and help achieve a just end, then I think we ought to.
but I think -- I would like to know how the meeting with the district attorney comes out.
to be honest, what I know about the facts of the different incidents that you mentioned there is what I read in the paper or heard on the news.
but I think we ought to look for every opportunity to become maybe more engaged and see if we can help.
>> judge, that's why later when you read this d.o.j.
report here, there are several statutes that cite brown versus connor, guller versus tennessee, but also talk a lot about proper procedures and use of force continuums.
this is in the federal report.
i think it pretty much explains our concerns and
>> [indiscernible] address what our concerns are.
i respect what you are saying.
i know there are judiciary boundary, I don't want to infringe upon that, but I think you're right f.
we start the conversation and begin raising the awareness of the bar, it begins to affect people from a mental standpoint.
i think this conversation on this level is way overdue.
i think that we have a responsibility as human beings to begin to address this on that level.
if nothing else.
>> I think that you're right.
i think the time has come to begin that conversation and get some --
>> yeah.
>> clarity on how we can make it work better for this community.
thank you.
>> we will review this with the -- with -- alone and with the county attorney.
>> thank you, Commissioners.
>> anything else.
>> thank you.
>> thanks for coming down.
>> thank you.
>> mr.
reeferseed.
>> well, thank you.
>> and mr.
priest.
>> I would like to thank the gentleman, well reasoned wonderful presentation about the gentleman at the naacp, I would like to mention briefly my decorated father was also for decades a paying member of naacp and so it's an appreciation that's been in my family for a long time.
of the efforts made by these.
that was really an outstanding presentation of -- of an ongoing issue that we all need to stay on top of and preventive sort of way.
at least.
and I really feel -- that we've all -- we all are -- our membership of this commune has all been aided by this -- of this community has all been aided by organization, especially what he just mentioned and especially y'all's understanding and acceptance of the situation as it stands.
i just wanted to express agreement with what he was saying and appreciation, thank you so much.
>> thank you.
>> thank you, mr.
reeferseed.
>> mr.
priest?
yes, Commissioners.
morris priest, speaking on my own behalf.
i do think that the issue sometimes is lost when we have presentations such's this.
i find this issue to be basically the result of two primary factors.
one the behavior of those people that have come in contact with law enforcement in a negative manner.
another is training.
and as we saw here, even in our own Commissioners court with the constable and the tasing event, that there was a conflict even among law enforcement, how they would have handled that particular situation.
so I think that the training is the primary issue that should be the focus and, you know, I just haven't -- haven't really seen a lot of people come in negative contact with law enforcement when they are sleeping Saturday night with the only thing in mind going to church Sunday morning.
and it is a spiritual condition that we have in this community, drug use and the other activities, if you are not out here stealing cars or snatching purses or smoking drugs or dope or doing -- driving drunk or, you know, running from the police, you are -- you are not going to be -- tended to have this negative type of action happen.
but I do think that the biggest issue that we have is the training and I think that if we could maybe encourage this court to go along with our sheriffs and our constables and a.p.d.
to come with some unified planning in the area of training where all law enforcement officers are on the same page, I think it would really stop a lot of these incidents from occurring.
>> well, hopefully so.
i hear what you are saying, but as I told nelson, I toll the community on several occasions, the appearance of what's going on is what I think that folks are really looking at.
as I stated earlier, these folks that have lost their lives, people of color and others, when you look at appearance of what happens, that's exactly the appearance that the folks are really looking at.
so it appears that these things are happening and they have happened and of course just -- I think we need a little more detailed outreach to figure out the why of it.
and of course the appearance is there.
and the fact is there and the folks are -- the deceased are gone.
so that's the reality.
>> I think that one of the things that I can agree with yourself and mr.
linder on, I think one of the hardest thing that I have been through was at the funeral when I went down to the funeral home, we had a firefighter, mr.
stein, died.
there was a young man there that was at the funeral home that had been assassinated on our streets.
and, you know, they did -- the guy that was alleged to have committed this crime did turn himself in in another state.
it just was about the hardest thing that I have been through in quite some time to see those young folks there at the funeral home mourning the loss of their friend that was slain on our streets.
all that I'm saying is that we have to -- we have to support our law enforcement because we have violence and a lot of crimes being committed on the street and I think that some of these issues can be resolved in training and also -- also encouragement not to -- not to go down that path.
i just -- just described to the -- to the police as I'm sure that many people on this court believe the wages of sin is death and just living this lifestyle is just -- of drugs and prostitution and these activities, they are a dead end street.
thank you.
>> thank you.
>> thank you, mr.
priest.
>> is ms.
noel here on 14.
>> she was.
>> I saw her moments ago.
i think she stepped into the hallway.
>> we can call it up if she's ready.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:40 PM
