Travis County Commissioners Court
August 18, 2009,
Item 30
And 30 we'll do what on 30 today?
>> 30?
>> oh, yes, we didn't take up 30.
>> we didn't take up 30?
>> no.
>> yep.
now, I think the most important piece of information about 30 is this, and yesterday I delivered a list of vacancies in the human resources department.
and when Commissioner Gomez and I chatted with pat and todd and luanne yesterday, it seemed clear to us that of those positions, in our view we should go ahead and as quickly as possible post the director of human resources with the intention that we would collect applications.
and after the executive director is hired, that person would actually fill the position.
and what that means is that if that person goes through the applications and finds all of them to be unsatisfactory, he or she will have the right to repost.
but I'm thinking if you get -- if we get 100 or so applications like we've been getting, then somewhere in there would be the gem that the executive manager is looking for.
but what that does more than anything else is to save us some time.
and we're thinking that it will take probably two months just to gather the application, probably three months for us to fill the executive manager position if we decide to go ahead and fill it.
but I don't know that we should wait around to post director of human resources until that time is here.
the other thing is that as to four or fif other other -- owe or five other positions in hrmd, really the hiring process started sometime ago and we should authorize the panel's in place to go ahead and make that decision.
what they do is short-list and then interview is the way I understand it.
that process was underway, has been underway for quite some time, and for both of the positions that they told us about, there were more than 100 applications filed.
in fact, one of them 150 applications.
and they believe in that total many of them are well qualified our fear is the longer we wait probably the best applicants will find employment elsewhere.
go ahead.
>> I didn't see the list.
somehow or another I didn't get that.
and I don't think we should hold up any effort to fill the volume of open positions we have in hr.
but I do want to weigh in here on filling the position of hr manager and admin ops executive manager because I feel very strongly based upon my own corporate management experience and management consulting experience, both private and public sector organizations, that we need to take -- we've got more than just positions to fill here.
we need to take a long look at our organization itself.
we've just been through some painful process here at the county.
we know we've got a number of senior level managers retiring in the next several years.
we -- it's been a long time since the organization of the county has been looked at.
the organizational structure.
we've grown tremendously in the past 10 years and the demands on the county have grown substantially from a lot of different areas.
we're looking at having to deal with things now we weren't dealing with on a volume level 10 or 12 or 15 years ago.
and when an organization goes through analysis and change in structure, change is disruptive to the organization.
and we are already in a somewhat disrupted state with the need to fill these two managers and the problems that have been transpiring the last year related to that.
and for one thing, I permanently have a problem with hiring an hr manager to come in when there's still a healing process that needs to go through with that organization.
it may indeed need to be reorganized when we take a look at it.
and I think that probably the executive manager of administration's whole division may be one of the ones that's primary for looking at for new organizational structure.
and I -- my experience has been that there are a number of interim, very highly qualified people out there that could come in, provide a buffer for the emotions, help lead -- that they would be qualified in human resources, leadership management, organizational development.
could help lead a team to look at the needs and deal with the diversity analysis that we need for succession planning.
tnd it would be a transition period for the county as a whole and it would be better to do it now than a person to come in as executive manager and manager of human resources who may end up having their whole departments changed when we go through an organizational assessment.
so I know there are a lot of ways to slice this, but given I think -- for the cloud that's here right now, there's a silver lining of opportunity to really do it right for the Commissioners court and for the county.
we need to look at efficiency in addition to diversity.
and I just feel very strongly we should consider hiring an interim to walk through this process so that we really get all our ducks in a row and at a time when it's a good time to do it.
>> okay.
we're talking about several positions.
I think that on an executive manager we ought to list pros and cons, each of us, have this back on the court's agenda, separate posting for the executive manager.
on director of human resources, let's do the same thing.
and address that.
now, on the other positions, though, the hr manager ii, the assistant director, screening is already in progress.
and so we've got the applications there, and the question is whether we move on them or whether we sit on them further.
right?
and this is -- this is like the assistant director.
is somebody filling in this as an acting capacity?
is ms. Nielson filling this as an acting capacity.
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic].
>> so this is not there.
if the application is there, I think this one we ought to fill.
so my motion would be to go ahead and authorize that that work be done.
and when you get on -- do we want to see the short list of three or do we want to trust the hiring panel to go ahead and make the final decision?
>> I say let the hiring panel go ahead and continue with their work.
and -- as they normally would.
>> all right.
now, there is an organizational chart.
and some of the top level positions are filled, but we could easily authorize those at the top of the organizational chart to serve as a panel to fill this assistant position.
>> who is on the hiring panel?
>> todd, why don't you and luanne come and talk to us.
I'm sure they would welcome any additional people.
who is on the panel at this time for the screening committee?
>> assistant director?
>> there's not a --
>> I don't know.
>> hr manager 2.
>> we would have to check with chris.
>> chris nielson?
>> correct.
>> is she sort of acting, serving as acting manager?
>> she's acting store manager.
>> now, the next one, hr manager 2 is stir, so there are two hr manager 2 positions open, stir and then this one --
>> assistant director.
>> right.
>> and the stir is where ms. Nielson is acting right now?
>> correct.
>> so she is filling her regular duties, plus she's acting stir manager.
>> correct.
>> so those were the two I had in mind really.
and in both of these the jobs were posted sometime ago.
there was some dispute about how to fill them, right?
but the applications are already in hand.
>> correct.
>> it's just -- and we have looked through them and concluded that some are worthy applicants, I take it.
>> the stir manager just closed last Friday.
I'm going to assume that yes, probably out of that 156 applicants, there are probably some good applicants in there, yes.
the assistant director job, that was posted.
it's been awhile, and I'm not sure exactly when they closed it.
it was before I got here certainly.
>> but would it be a good exercise to call -- if we can get down to the top 25 percent, maybe to try to figure out how many of those are still available?
we're talking 25 percent of 150, right?
>> for the stir manager job, I believe that's correct.
I do not know how many people applied for the assistant director job.
>> okay.
I had heard a real big number, but my thing about 25 percent is then we would phone them and see if they're still interested.
if I'm not mistaken, that one was posted for the first time probably the end of last year or the first of this year, wasn't it?
>> sounds about right?
>> so I don't know that we would be correct in assuming all of them would be available and interested.
but it may help us to find out how many of the top ones are still interested and available.
>> true.
>> why don't we do this then.
I do think on the -- since we'll take some action on the other two, why don't we just take a close look at hr manager 2, assistant director, hr manager 2 stir, and then give us all the specifics on it next week, try to figure out what screening committee or panel is in place, and let us chat with them.
Commissioner Gomez and me.
about who ought to be in place to assist with this and report back to the court with a specific plan that we can vote up and down or modify as we see fit.
how is that?
>> okay.
>> so just to get clarity on it, we're going to find out if there is a steering committee set up, and if so, to what extent our -- do they understand their duties to be and then come up with a plan of who would actually do the hiring, whether it's the steering committee that would do the hiring or whether the hiring decision would come back to the commissionrs court?
assuming that there is not an hr manager in place at the point of having gone through all the applicants.
>> I think that plus we decide whether or not we will proceed with what we had on both of these jobs.
now, the other thing is that there is a county policy that requires us to pay a five to 10 percent premium on a manager that assumes additional responsibilities on a temporary basis because of a vacancy.
so in my view in view of the time, we ought to pull that policy, look at it and make sure that we comply if in fact we need to.
and two or three times that we've done it in the past, sometimes we've done five percent, sometimes we've done 10 percent, but clearly if you do your regular job, plus pick up these additional responsibilities, then you are entitled to additional compensation.
that is a policy already in place at the county and to which we have tried to adhere for the last eight or nine years, I know.
john, I'm seeing you thinking your signature is at the bottom of that policy.
you're saying no.
>> judge, we believe that the acting stir manager is already receiving five percent.
we'll check it, but we're pretty sure.
>> at this point is dan mansour essentially the acting manager?
>> no.
dan is the manager of benefits, and risk.
>> risk management, yeah.
but who is -- who is essentially acting manager of hr?
>> if you're acting who the actor director of human resources is, we do not have one.
>> nobody is filling that.
so we really have dan and these two.
give yourself credit.
>> [ laughter ] and chris nielson sort of working together to cover gaps.
and with roger being available as needed to get agenda items through, what the executive manager typically would do.
so they really have been helping out.
but even they would like to know in what direction we will be headed for sure, right?
>> correct.
>> judge, I would bring up one other thing.
I don't mean to complicate things.
>> too late for that.
they're already complicated.
>> in much the same way that your executive manager would probably want to have a lot of input on who the director of human resources would want to be, I would imagine the director of human resources probably would want to have similarly put on the assistant director, so if we fill the assistant director prior to the director, I'm not going to say that would really complicate things, but it is a little unusual when they're both vacant like that.
so it's just something to consider, an additional thing to consider.
>> and the other thing is how long do we wait to do that?
one strategy that's a short one, would be three to four months in my view.
the other one would easily take much, much longer.
and if you're already five under, excluding the director, that pushes six.
and that's -- and the ones that are filled, nine of these are associated with the clinic, right?
they're all filled.
>> the medical director --
>> medical director.
so most of the vacancies are in other parts of hrmd.
>> and there's a panel for the medical director already working.
>> yeah.
we just kind of told them go ahead and proceed.
and if it looks like there's a unanimous applicant, one with unanimous approval, assume the court will rubber stamp that, because we normally do anyway.
but if there's one with a split decision, the court may want to spend a little time with that person.
>> in y'all's -- with y'all's expertise in hr, do we ever see -- I'm trying to be mindful of the fact that hiring is 70% skill and experience and 30% rapport between individuals who will have to be working together.
and since we don't know who the individuals are yet, in your expertise and experience, what other options are available to us?
is there ever -- is there any kind of reorganization consults that would come in?
we can't be the first ones who have ever been in this circumstance?
>> I don't know if a reorganization consultant is necessarily the right approach here.
that would involve reorganizing the entire department and going back to what Commissioner Huber said.
that would involve a lot of change and it could be actually more disruptive than helpful.
>> that may be a matter of opinion.
>> [ laughter ]
>> but you're welcome to give us that.
>> I do believe that in the long run the relationship between the director and the assistant director is probably going to be very critical.
and I'm of the opinion personally that whoever fills these two jobs has to be acting in concert and since we do not want a clash at the top of the department similar to the conflict that you've dealt with recently.
towards that end, the logical thing is to fill the director job first and then certainly not tell the court they have to do it that way, but that's the most logical way for me to do it or think of -- think that the county should probably act, but we certainly would defer to the judge and the Commissioners court as speed is of the essence.
>> the executive manager -- I'm sorry, go ahead, Commissioner.
I didn't mean to cut you off.
>> is there in your opinion not only as hr professionals, but also as individuals who are in the fat, as it were, are there options that we should consider in terms of how to distribute the work load in order to facilitate your working environment and peace of mind in this interim while we try and -- while we get a new executive director?
>> I would say that -- go ahead and speak to it.
>> well, I think the last two weeks have been greatly improved.
we're communicating where we never communicated --
>> can you turn that mic around?
>> we never communicated before among the divisions, so the communication and the rapport that we're having is 360 degrees difference.
so if we can continue to support each other, encourage each other and have a positive working environment, then that would continue our improvement.
>> so the reporting relationships are clear.
>> to the extent that they can be, yes.
>> [ laughter ] I mean werks know what to do to get an item to the court.
obviously a department such as ours does need leadership, it does need direction.
someone will have to spell out what the agenda for human resources is in 2010.
we all have our own ideas within our own areas, but somebody obviously needs to take all the input from all the different areas and prioritize what those are going to be.
>> y'all have been real champions through all of this, I just have to say.
I just wanted to put that out there, that the camaraderie and the teamwork and keeping everything moving has been really inspiring.
thank you for that.
>> Commissioner, that was the feedback that the judge and I had because we met with all of the divisions in hr and we did have some communication with folks in administrative operations.
and they all basically know what to do.
and I think that was a very good deal to find here.
people know what the duties of their jobs are and they're performing them.
and so that we're very lucky in that respect.
and congratulations to y'all for knowing exactly what is expected.
>> I would just like to add, because of the open meetings act rule, we haven't had the opportunity to talk about this amongst ourselves.
I'm new on the court, so I don't have the history.
but one of the things I have observed is that we really have stellar employees here at the county.
we really, really do.
I have a lot of personal confidence in the hr department and from what I'm hearing today you're rising to the occasion.
and I want to make it clear that my concerns aren't about my desire to see an interim that would fill both of those two -- the top level positions.
it is in no way reflective of what I see in the hr department myself.
in fact, I think it's opportunity for the hr department to think of it as a challenge that could help improve the process there.
and so -- and I believe in empowerment of employees.
so I see that because we have needs here at this time that go beyond the immediate filling of those two positions, I see that as opportunity and I actually throw that out to you as a challenge to look at.
we talk about needing the manager of hr first perhaps before the executive manager of admin, but there again, we have two high level positions that need to work well together.
and if all things were normal, the executive manager of admin would be probably involved deeply in the hiring process of the manager of hr.
so because of the need to have good structure and operational ability there, I really throw that back at y'all to mull over in the next week as well.
maybe there's a way that we can come up with the lower positions being filled by a committee or a panel and working with some kind of interim person while we can still address the diversity issues that we need to have looked at, and particularly in succession and the operations -- the organization, the county as a whole.
I throw that back to y'all.
I didn't want to sound confrontational, but I think there's real opportunity here and we can empower employees to be a part of that.
>> I think it would be good for -- again, this is an open meetings issue because we haven't been able to discuss this amongst us.
but I agree that for efficiency sake it would be good to go ahead and move forward with the interview process and the winnowing of the people who have applied for these six positions.
is it six overall that are vacant?
>> six cowngt the director job.
>> five not counting director job.
>> the director job, my recommendation is not to fill it, but it is to post it.
and give -- and collect applications until the executive -- until after the executive manager has been hired.
I would hire the executive manager, let the executive manager hire the director, but I would have applications available for the director to see upon arrival or shortly flaf.
but below that level I would actively fill those positions because there are so many of them and because the work is so crucial.
and the other thing is there's a domino effect.
luanne at one time would have been there by now as opposed to a second person there.
so now there's a big discussion about what second person from hrmd go goaz to be fit.
now that person is performing critical duties in hrmd.
that's one of the vacant positions.
so that's what I'm saying.
see, five positions is a whole lot of them, especially if you take eight or nine off the top of 40 or so.
and which leaves you with about 30.
and four or five vacancies, you're talking about a whole lot of manpower or labor missing.
and they can do double duty for awhile, but certainly it's unfair for us to ask them to do that to great length.
>> I agree.
I think for efficiency purposes we need to move forward with filling the lower positions.
I 100% agree.
and just for the record and perhaps for argument's sake, but I think that -- I dwrea that there may -- I agree that there may be a silver lining here as we move forward with not only trying to fill these lower positions, but also to fill the upper positions in the appropriate exception that we could seize the silver lining in looking at internal recruitment, succession planning, diversity planning, and in order to give us a leg up.
and I see an opportunity for us to do them in parallel.
it's not a one or the other.
but a parallel track.
>> now, to see that silver lining you have to look real, real closely.
>> well, and then the other thing certainly is if you're going to talk about reorganizing, that takes a lot of time.
a lot of -- just a lot of time of everybody spending time working on each aspect of the reorganization.
I think '94 was when the current organization was being worked on.
it went on for, you know, several months.
and I came on in January of '95 and I think we were still working on it at the end of '95.
so it's not something that you -- that you're going to get done quickly.
it's going to take a lot of time.
and I think for at least three of us, next year is going to be a busy year.
>> that's a point well taken.
>> and so it could be that we need to wait until mid 2010 to try to make a commitment because it's going to be a huge commitment.
and that time we had the comptroller's office help us with the reorganization and quite a bit of time was spent with them working on this plan.
and so -- and then there are a lot of other things that we need to work on.
and in meeting with citizens about this very issue.
they also asked if we had an afir active action plan -- an affirmative action plan.
then when talk to hr staff, if you're going to do one, you need to do it right and it will take a lot of time.
so we need to think in terms of how much time are we going to have to devote to any planning of that sort.
and so it's huge amounts of time.
and if we're going to jump into that, we need to devote that time and do it right.
and not try to do it quickly or trying to just -- in the short-term.
it's going to take just huge amounts of commitments, and that's time, mostly our time.
I remember that last time we went through that and it took months and months of meetings.
>> it can be staged.
and my experience is that you can have a good interim manager that's very well qualified that can manage the job requirements from a functional standpoint that they can bring with them.
the experience to organize internally to evaluate an organization and then it could be staged.
I just think we're -- when we're looking at benefits, the efficiency of taxpayer dollars and the timing that needs to be done here, I mean, I would hate to hire an executive manager for admin and then come in to a reorganization next year and say, oh, we may cut your department in half.
I don't know that that's the case, but we may need to massage around some pieces there for better functionality.
and I know it's a task, but in the real world my experience has been that reorganization and assessment of an organization is done much more frequently than every 13 years.
and so I think we're behind the eight ball and I think maybe this is something that it's time to step up to the table and do.
because I mean, we've got a lot on our plate, I understand that, but at the same time it's going to take twice the effort -- maybe not twice the effort, but it will take more effort to do it later than to incorporate it into the process now.
and I believe the talent is out there.
and it would give us time to ease into the healing process.
and I really believe in empowerment.
if we look careful listened and get the right internal interim person, they can work with our internal resources to do this.
in whatever staged way we decide to do it.
it doesn't have to be a total reorganization to begin with.
maybe we're just looking at one part of the organization.
I'm not an expert on the bigger public sector side, but there are those that are.
and they bring -- the other thing is not having had reorganization in as long as it's been, what's the math?
>> 15 years.
>> it's really healthy to bring in some outside expertise because we've got a lot of really good people that have been here a good while, but they've not been out there seeing other best management practices that are out there.
and so it brings a breath of fresh air that's not necessarily a permanent breath of fresh air, but brings fresh air to the organization in helping with the decision making.
so I just --
>> we'll have the agenda item listed next week where we can act on specific items. Even if we disagree at the top, if we agree mid level on town, we will have accomplished a whole lot.
and on some of this it's like six of one, half dozen of the other.
last time we did get some preconsultation, but it takes awhile to hustle that up.
and you have to put together exactly what you need in order to go out and recruit some assistance.
and the comptroller helped before, but we kind of said here's what we need, and -- need help with and here are some of our problems and here's where we would like to go.
and they had people in place who could do that.
and we've got the l.b.j.
school of public affairs and some of the other colleges around that may have students available to help.
now, if you can do research on computers, it's amazing what good models you can come up with.
so we ought to think about doing that.
but between now and next week, why don't we try to -- if we have ideas, let's just list pros and cons, think about those, and act on them.
and there will be some easy ones mid level on down probably.
at the top it will get more difficult.
let's try to put ourselves in a position where we can act on them.
we promise you we will call the item up before 5:00 in the evening, all right?
>> [ laughter ] we can't promise you 9:00, but we'll call it up before 5:00 in the evening, for sure.
anything else on this item today?
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic].
>> was there a motion?
>> second.
>> that wasn't direction.
I was just talking.
I think we've kind of agreed on direction, haven't we?
robert, don't be technical at the time like this?
>> [ laughter ]
>> it's too late.
>> we're moving in that direction.
there being no further business today, legal says --
>> move adjourn.
>> second.
>> all in favor?
that passes by unanimous vote.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:11 PM
