Travis County Commissioners Court
August 18, 2009,
Item 9
>> I am looking for the rabbits item, which is number nine, consider and take appropriate action on request from central Texas rabbit club for a discounted rate to use the Travis County exposition center show barn for their annual event, and mr.
el khoury, it's background?
>> good morning.
roger el khoury, facilities management department, facilities management department received an inquiry from the president of the central Texas rabbit club.
they are requesting to rent a small action of the expo center, about 200 feet by 200 feet on the northeast section.
the ctrc nonprofit organization and they do this show.
this is the first time it's going to be at the expo center, but they attend from Texas, louisiana, new mexico, according to the inquiry.
and they are requesting to reduce our rent from $900 to 450 because they're using a small action of the show barn.
we don't have in our rate schedule approved by the court that they have to use half of the section or half of the show barn for a reduced price.
anybody who want to use the show barn they will pay the $900.
so in addition to that, there are questions that we provide the trash can and they will take care of the custodial trash, so this way they reduce the amount of dollars they're going to pay the expo center to take care of the custodial issues, which is $200 a day at the expo center show barn.
so they're asking for from 900 to 450.
>> let me ask you a question, roger.
the space that they are seeking this year, the same amount of space that was required last year?
>> the last time -- the last time they used the service at the expo center.
>> I think my staff is telling me this is the first time they will be using this and come in October and November right in there.
and we can --
>> pardon me?
>> I'd be glad to speak to that, sir.
my name is jim kirlin and I'm in the central Texas rabbit club.
he asked me to be here.
i live in your precinct maind daughter shows at the Travis County livestock show, which is yearly at that -- at the expo center and the star of Texas.
and this is separate from that in that we're in our 26th year of organization and we provide opportunity for kids just for the rabbits, not all the other animals.
after this local meet pen show, Travis County show, and a kid for the Travis County livestock show, they might have rabbits from -- it's kind of a family deal.
their families are involved, grandparents and they will come to that show.
and we encourage them by having these breeder shows to hold on maybe the best rabbit they have there out of four or maybe all of them, and continue to raise them.
and it's parent involvement and grandparents again.
and then we provide a place for them to show them and we hire arba judges and licensed american -- on the national level, and we begin the process, though, for this one show that we put on a year, which we put on in giddings for the last several years because we couldn't find a facility close to us.
and we have paid $400 each year for the first Saturday in may and that's what we're requesting from y'all this year.
their involved with a lot of rodeo type things and horse deals and it's sort of crowded us now.
and so what we do is provide another venue for the kids to take those same rabbits and show them again.
we'll help them to see that these rabbits, some are good and this one of them is good and recommend you get rid of the others and you can go to this show on the expo center on may the 1st, whenever it is.
and we help them to see what a good rabbit is and we'll talk to parents and we are already involved with those same parents in the Travis County youth show.
they purchase rabbits from -- jason provides rabbits to ffa ag teachers, lanier and other places, and then we help them through the ag teachers.
so what we do, though, is on a Friday afternoon late we bring in a couple of trailers where we have all the tables are in those trailers and we will have already hired eight judges and we will have ordered trophies, plaques, ribbons, all the entry forms and everything.
people drive literally to your location early that morning and they will show up at six a.m.
and we're already ready.
and we only do this once a year.
other Saturdays we go to other club's shows in brenham or yoakum.
so this is a way that we feel like that citizens in Travis County can be in close proximity to them and we could easily -- more easily get them to come to this show in that way.
so we're not trying to get everybody to be rabbit enthusiasts, but people are already involved, they have the animals.
>> who doesn't like a good rabbit?
>> thank you, thank you.
and she's already going to be an honorary member of our club.
>> [ laughter ] but so we'll show up then after having set the tables up at approximately 6:00 on Friday, we'll leave the trailers there and we'll come the next morning at 5:30 and people will begin showing up at 6:00.
and at 8:00 we'll start.
and in the morning we'll have a show.
there will be about a thousand rabbits there.
there will be about 150 people.
about 50 or 60 cars is all.
we'll pull up close to the barn.
we don't charge any parking.
there's no entry fee, just drive up, bring your rabbits, bring your grandmother.
and everybody comes, sometimes it's a single parent with a child or sometimes it a grandparent with their children.
we'll put the show on in the morning.
there will be a second show exactly everything done twice in the afternoon so that it's a -- if my daughter sitting back there, if she had a judge in the morning that didn't like her rabbit for whatever reason, in the afternoon somebody else will look at them.
we rotate the judges around.
joy son will do that and make sure no judge judges the same breed twice the same day.
it's a double show.
and in the show there's a trophy for if a kid wins the best california rabbit they can compete to win the best rabbit in the show amongst other breeds.
so a lot of disappointments that day, but it's a competition and it takes it further than the meat pen shows.
what we're asking -- I don't want to take a lot of your time.
we only use approximately 200-foot by 1200-foot paved -- 200-foot by 200-foot paved area on the northeast corner.
it's where we do the Travis County youth show and that's a good area for us.
it's probably one-sixth to one-seventh of the total barn.
the barn rents for $900 a day.
we're asking to maybe have a variance on that for 450 for that corner.
and all we need is we bring all our tables and we all want to be in a tight area so people won't have to walk as far with their rabbits.
we'll be in that tight area and we're not interested in being in any other part of the barn because we're right there.
you have to listen for your breed to come up.
and we need the restroom facility use and paper towels and such in there.
and at the end of the show, at the end of the day, 6:00, it will be over.
we'll oh load up, take a couple of hours to load our stuff up and we will put trash in four to five 50-gallon, 55-gallon trash barrels and it will be a full bag of trash in each one and leave that for whoever.
and that's what we do, we pick it up, leave it there and somebody in giddings disposes of that.
it's once a year and we haven't been here before, but I've been asked to ask you if we could be considered each year.
it's closer to us than what giddings has been.
>> thank you for those comments.
i'm going to have to have a question with legal on that.
i just got to ask my attorney on something here.
and so I need a legal answer from this question that I need to pose to him probably in executive session if that's all right with the judge.
>> all right.
>> fine with me.
>> the only thing we need, Commissioner, is we've begun the process for next year.
>> I understand.
>> and we don't -- until we get the site, it's important.
and I just got here, so I don't expect you to -- but we need to know that we can use the site and we begin our process sort of that way and hiring judges.
we go through american rabbit breeder association to be able to have a show.
nobody else can have a show within 150-mile radius of our show once we get it sanctioned.
so-- but anyway, I guess I'll wait to hear from him.
is that --
>> there will be a couple other questions from court members probably.
ms.
Huber?
>> first of all, I want to say I was at the Travis County 4-h awards banquet this past Saturday and I applaud you and all the rest of those out there that contribute your energies to supporting these kinds of activities out there.
they're really fine programs.
>> thank you.
>> and I just have a business question for roger on this because I think -- I heartily support these efforts, but I think at a minimum it needs to make good business sense too.
my question is do you know the cost of the utilities that would be required for this?
i mean, we're talking about one day, 24 hours?
>> yeah.
>> and you said there's a 200-dollar custodial fee that would have to be paid?
>> our utility as far as electricity and the water for the show barn is like 50 to $100 a day because of all those lights.
but I don't think the ctrc would like to have the -- you know, the whole thing.
right there they would probably have just one section.
it will be very minimal.
>> all we need is early in the morning, particularly you want lights on that corner.
and if it's -- if it would help, those four or five trash barrels, we can take the contents out, the bags out.
we're not trying to -- we do want to make it -- I know it's taxpayer money that completed that facility, and we are residents of the -- I'm in precinct 1, but we do want to -- I want to defer to what you're saying too, about the costs there.
and whatever we can do to make that work, like I say, we're using -- at the time we checked with michael norton there was nothing on the agenda that day.
so we're not trying to crowd anybody out, though we're nonprofit, but we can -- if we need to pick up, if we need to curb the custodial deal, whatever we will need to do.
that was part of our other thing at giddings.
so I just said that for that reason.
but whatever you need to do, that's fine.
>> any other questions?
is the -- is the central Texas rabbit club a 501(c)3?
>> it's a nonprofit, yes, sir.
has been in its 26th year.
>> is it a 501(c)3?
>> somebody asked in one of the meetings the other day and somebody else in there that had been there longer than me said yes.
we don't pay any taxes to i.r.s., we don't -- we charge an entry fee per rabbit per day.
as soon as they show up they pay $3.50 per rabbit.
we hire the judges, rent the place and buy the trophies.
we don't plan to make money.
so we are not required by i.r.s.
to file a tax return yearly.
so I need to stick there.
but I would be glad to get that to yourself.
>> it would be good.
>> to assure you of that.
but we're considered a nonprofit organization.
but without me being able to answer that question, I suppose I should --
>> okay.
so what do you do with the proceeds from the annual event?
>> sometimes we make a profit, sometimes we don't.
we have a checking account and we'll pay the things -- if we need to pay this fee up front, we will, for example, if we need to pay -- we pay sanctions to sanction each breed of rabbit.
and we show people these breeds are sanctioned.
we pay to sanction with the american rare breeder association.
so if you come you get points, official points.
we send out reports to every exhibiter who comes.
they get a report in the mail.
here's where your rabbit placed.
they will have heard the comments the judge had made.
i think this year we might have made a thousand dollars.
we have a raffle that we have.
sometimes we lose.
we state to be a late entry and if it's bad weather Friday night, people may not come.
some people are going to come.
but anyway, so that's all I know to tell you.
>> let me ask you another question.
let me throw you a softball.
>> all right.
>> so do you take the proceeds from the event, cover the expenses, and what's leftover plan for the next year's event?
>> it goes into the checking account.
i think our checking account went up by maybe a thousand dollars last year.
it was a big --
>> all right.
so -- where does it go?
>> oh.
it just goes into the checking account.
>> but what is the checking account used for?
is it to plan for the next year or is it used to buy a new car?
>> [ laughter ]
>> right.
that is a fair question.
and I would be prepared to bring that checkbook here.
i haven't -- we have it audited once a year, but we have no interest in anything other than what we're talking about here, and kids and not just kids.
i'm showing.
you may want to show.
i could give you a good rabbit and you could have a real fun day on Saturday.
>> my kids love that.
i hope my children are not watching.
>> [ laughter ]
>> so -- it takes us about $67,000 to do a show -- six or seven thousand dollars to do a show.
>> my kids will say where is the rabbit hutch?
>> we can get a phone number.
we spend, about, judge, six or seven thousand dollars to put a show on.
each judge that we hire, we hire eight or anybody from three to $350 a day, and we sanction each breed of rabbits and it's a long story, but we spend about -- at least six thousand dollars to put a show on that day.
>> for the -- for the kids that raise, I guess I see horses and cows and lambs and goats.
it's supposed to be educational, cultural and I guess they have other goals.
>> yes, sir.
and again, we take it -- meat rabbits.
we call them meat rabbits.
we sell to a child, like our children -- I don't know if their boys or girls.
we will sell them four live one and a half to two pound rabbits.
the same breed, same -- not necessarily all the same litter, but something that we believe that her child can feed for approximately 30 days.
just feed them once a day, water them, don't screw it up.
and if the genetics are there, then the day before the show, whoever the 4-h manager s I manage a 4-h club.
i will help those people.
that parent, you and a parent, I'll help you pick out what I believe to be the best three of those four rabbits.
and I might say to her, apart from her child, I think you have a fair chance, I think you have a real good chance and there's one rabbit in here that's weak and going to hurt you.
so we go at it that way, but it's only 30 days.
we have a book of standards on a national level that is to be followed on taking rabbits out of that four, believing that this rabbit has -- I could handle a rabbit, look at a rabbit.
you can't tell from looking at them.
you have to -- I don't know what they do.
i know with pigs and stuff they look at them.
>> so what do you hope that the young participants get out of this?
>> if we could get a kid to take those same four rabbits that they had and they took them this to a county show.
whatever happened.
if they didn't make the sale, they're disappointed, but we might be able to -- we might have to tell them, these rabbits are not any good, but I have some over here in that were in the 30th place pen, there's one in there real good.
if you would like to take these rabbits, I can get these back.
you take this and feed it another two months, the rabbit is then approximately four months old, and you take that rabbit to the expo center on may the 1st, I think you will like what happens.
so I handle a lot of rabbits, jason does as well.
any breeder who handles a lot of them, this man may know rabbits.
you can spot one.
you put your hands on them and there are some things to look for.
we use the same judges around the state.
there are about 15 of them and the one who was at Travis County this last year, he is also one of our regular circuit of judges that we pick from.
so he's looking at the same literature that I'm looking at.
we don't go off his ideas.
but we want a kid to take it past that day, judge.
and to have this facility close, we believe facilitates that.
>> it would be good to see the actual area, roger, I guess, that's being requested for use for the rabbit show on this particular day.
so if you can, let's have a rendering, I guess, of that particular area that is being requested.
i would appreciate that.
>> okay.
>> is that what you have, the northeast corner?
>> yes.
>> I would appreciate that.
there's nothing in the backup accordingly, but I think we can maybe take a peek at that in executive session along with legal stuff I have to ask.
>> any other questions from the court?
mr.
reeferseed?
>> just a brief comment and a question.
the comment is for -- on behalf of Sarah Eckhardt's kids, come on, mom!
but anyway, my question is --
>> they already have a rabbit over at the day care and his name is hippie.
>> oh.
yay!
but anyway, I'm following up on judge Biscoe's question.
why only rabbits and why not discounts for goats, sheep, horses, cows?
why for rabbits only is a discount?
i think discounts should be for everybody.
>> we're not saying that we want to be the only one.
we just -- we only need -- I said one-sixth to one-seventh.
i've got a bachelor's degree in accounting.
there was nothing scheduled for that day.
i'm not saying that -- the kids will learn most after that Travis County youth show.
they don't learn much right there, 30 days.
the mom and dad don't know much.
this lady couldn't tell you about that -- she couldn't tell you the quality of that rabbit at her day care, but I could look at that rabbit and put my hands on it and I could tell you that there are five toenails on their front feet and four on the back.
>> have you used the facility before in the past?
>> we participate through the 4-h club for Travis County youth shows, Commissioner, and for star of Texas.
we're familiar with that corner.
that's where they usually put us.
but the breeder shows that we've had in the past, last six or seven years, have been at giddings at their lee county sheriff's posse arena.
>> right.
>> and we rent a portion of it and pay $400.
so I don't know if setting precedent is bad or good.
if you're full up, I wouldn't -- if I was you, I wouldn't mess with it.
we'll have to cut off a corner.
we don't mind.
we're all going to be in -- if somebody else wants to rent another part of that facility on that day, I told michael, we don't have any problem with it.
he said something about motorcycle clubs and I said I don't know about that, motorcycles riding up.
we don't have any problem with a joint use of it on that day.
if something comes up,
>> what portion did you pay last time when it was combined with 4-h and the other thing?
did you pay a portion?
>> we never have had our rabbit breeder show at the expo center yet.
the shows that we have, the Travis County livestock show, I'm actually not involved with how they pay or rent the facility.
i'm a 4-h club manager, so we're there and all the animals are there that day and I assume they pay the nine hundred dollars a day for three days.
>> I was wondering was it broke down among the different --
>> that's what I'm trying to get a.
>> through the Travis County livestock show, the group organization there, I'm sure they rent from you all.
>> okay.
thank you.
>> this is new here.
>> I know.
i see t that's why I was trying to flush out as many answers ai can get from you because it is new.
>> we'll be able to ask legal questions this afternoon.
and we'll be able to phone you this evening and let you know what the court does.
>> can I give you my phone number?
>> would you, please.
>> thank you very much.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:07 PM
