Travis County Commissioners Court
April 14, 2009,
Item 25
>> who is here on the tecolote item?
that's item no.
25.
consider and take appropriate action on request to address water availability and related issues at tecolote farms.
this is posted also as a possible executive session item.
under the consultation with attorney exception.
we will take that into executive session later this afternoon when we take into executive session the other items.
and if you all would come forth.
>> public comment?
>> yes, sir.
>> okay.
>> thank you, judge, county Commissioners.
my name is bill bunch.
i'm with save our springs alliance.
we try to help solve ground water problems.
i've only been involved peripherally on this particular matter.
but just wanted to encourage you to move forward and help resolve this matter.
right up front.
but also take the important step in addition to moving forward with the bigger picture, longer term solution.
because it does seem pretty clear that we need a ground water district out there.
that's -- that would function and would -- would much better manage the ground water that's essentially not being managed at this point.
i, per chance, was working with a gentleman who has a pipeline company, ted stuart, which you all may know, he's usually on the opposite side of the work that I do, conservation.
but he offered to help in this situation.
because he does lay pipe for a living, I think he can provide some assistance at a much, much lower cost.
than what you all were receiving estimates for.
so I hope that you will embrace that offer from ted.
it's really nice to be able to collaborate with your opponent -- normal opponents and to address an important issue.
we need local food, we need sustainable healthy local food.
we need these -- these farms close in.
and accessible to the urban dwellers.
and I hope that you will help with that.
and -- and I'm not clear on y'all's watering practices.
but I hope that you are being extra careful and reviewing and that you have an extremely rigorous conservation plan.
so that you are only using the absolute minimum amount of water that you need to keep the ball fields, you know, functioning and safe.
it's my understanding that the farms use of water is a very small fraction of the county's use of water.
i think that factor alone needs to weigh in and hopefully encourage you to do your share on your side of the fence, but also to the extent that you can help preserve this -- this important local business.
appreciate your --
>> any questions.
>> you brought a couple of comments earlier that I would like to maybe -- maybe give you a little further insight on something going on.
bill, back in 2001 this Commissioners court, of course, directed me and others to look at just what you said as far as creating any ground water conservation district.
we had a lot of meetings, several meetings, john kuhl, tom nuckols the attorney, john kuhl of course with t.n.r., also david fowler and myself.
we had many, many meetings even with the late -- late david samuel son.
i can still, you know, see him, he's passed on.
but he used to be a Commissioner of precinct 1.
we did go all the way through, you know, through a process of trying to -- trying to look at wait while we could deal with that water situation.
of course what ended up happening, the reason we couldn't go forward with it.
was because of the fact that the folks out there didn't want to deal with the taxes that was also a part of creating a situation where you have access, you have to pay for water, ain't nothing free.
so that was part of the deal back in 2001.
of course we were wrestling with that here today.
i have a meeting set up this Wednesday to actually visit and talk with some folks about maybe pursuing something similar maybe petition for and by petition to look at ground water management type of situation.
it's not that it's not being looked at, not being done.
i don't want anybody to get false images that Travis County has been sitting here idle.
we have not, I have been pretty dad gum aggressive, I want folks to know that.
i have a meeting Thursday, not Wednesday but Thursday, with very key players that we might come up with resolve.
thank you.
>> I appreciate that.
i didn't know that background.
>> well, it's quite deep.
>> the pattern has been that people do tend to spin these districts off until the crisis comes along.
and it becomes more clear to them that this is something that you need.
perhaps you were a little bit ahead of the curve.
now we have the -- the sort of the clear picture that can motivate your success this time.
>> hopefully.
>> > bill, do you really think that in the name of sustainable agriculture, which I obviously support and anybody in their right mind would, that it is -- that it is responsible to consider well ground we are as a source of water for sustainable agriculture in the future?
particularly in an area of high growth, where there are already -- where there is evidence of the ground water district, the rule of capture is the law, even though we would like it changed.
but those are the two driving basics that are out in this area.
it's a high growth area with private municipal water supplies already pulling significant amounts of water out of that aquifer.
do you think that it's -- that it's responsible to -- to base sustainable agriculture in that location on ground water?
at this point in time?
>> well, I mean there's a lot of details about the hydrology of that region that I don't know.
so I can't give you a full answer.
but what I do know that the normal pattern is that -- that quite often you ends up extending your pipeline from your central water suppliers.
like the city of Austin.
to new development.
and that does then present the opportunity because you have to treat take water and there's -- you know, there's -- there's financial resources behind it to do that.
so then that can free up the ground water for -- for the more traditional ag and farming and ranching purposes.
but, you know, again there's specifics about the area that I'm not -- that I'm not fully aware of.
>> thank you.
>> may I just add, I wanted to thank you very, very much and give you big kudos because you were the one who made the suggestion to see if we could get that trenching in kind donation, I really wanted to -- to say thank you for that.
that's going to go a long way to trying to figure out what we can do here.
one thing that I wanted to ask you is in regard to -- to -- I don't know if you can answer this because of course like I you said this is the colorado aquifer and a little different.
in your travels, do you see government support for obtaining ground water for agricultural purposes to be a -- at least government support at the local level, to be a sustainable policy?
again, I'll just be frank, the reason why I asked this is I'm concerned about the value, I don't want to do something for one farm and not be able to do it for others.
precedential.
>> for decades, all of us federal taxpayers have been providing hundreds of thousands of acres of corporate farming in the california central valley at two to $4 an acre foot.
when the urban dwellers in los angeles are paying, you know, 400 to a thousand or more dollars an acre foot.
so government support of cheap water to food suppliers is, you know, endemic and common.
and unfortunately a lot of that has gone to big mega corporate agriculture.
and I would think that it would be far more important and desirable and certainly the -- consistent with our community to instead provide that for -- for the local mom and pops.
>> cheap water, though, the -- the pricing mechanism for water in our state and even in the country and frankly according to a really good economist article that came out last week, the pricing structure for water worldwide seems to be in some respects driving our water crisis.
so --
>> right.
>> so.
>> yes.
>> the cheapness of it is a problem in itself, as odd as that sounds.
>> right.
>> but, I mean, you have -- there's at least some fair amount of ground water on site.
so it's not like you have to build a huge reservoir or, you know, a pipeline 20 miles away, which quite often that's where enormous government spending comes in.
for the reservoirs and along -- the long distance delivery systems.
>> thank you.
>> uh-huh.
>> is professor sharp here?
>> yes.
>> please come forward.
you have an idea to share with us.
>> yes, thank you.
judge Biscoe and Commissioners and first of all I did attend the previous hearing on this and I thought it was very wonderful display of public policy and government addressing some critical issues.
i wish that I had brought my ground water management class to come and just listen.
>> you should have brought them today.
>> the d.v.d.'s are available.
i actually have d.v.d.'s of the work session.
>> if you could get them, I would love that and I will show it to my class in two weeks.
>> in fact would it be useful to have our d.v.d.
of the work session up loaded to the website?
because it's not currently available publicly.
>> well, that would be very good if you could and I will contact you on that.
i would love to see that.
>> can we have your full name for the record.
>> john m.
sharp, junior, I go by jack, I'm a professor at the university of Texas ground water sciences I teach ground water hydrology.
i wanted to address attorney bunch's comment just a couple of seconds ago.
tecolote farms and some of the other local landowners have given us permission and a little more than one month I will be taking my ground water field methods class to this site and we're going to try to determine some of the details of the plumbing system, the hydro geology.
it will be a student paper and project.
it will be free.
i hope that you will get more than what you pay for it.
but sometimes we -- it's amazing what -- what a small scale intensive study sometimes can provide very fruit tell options, that's what I am hoping that we will do.
at the end of that project we will give a copy of our report to tecolote farms, we will be happy to provide you all with one, also.
i would second Commissioner Davis's comment on the need for a conservation district in this area.
any questions for professor sharp.
>> thank you,.
>> thank you so much.
>> thank you all.
>> thank you.
>> ms.
mcginty fee.
welcome back.
>> you feel at home there.
>> yes, I do.
it's been a long time.
ms.
macafee.
>> melanie macafee.
i sent you all an e-mail last week, I just want to offer a potential suggestion that might help bridge the gap between your wanting to help to solve the problem and yet feeling a precedent that will get you into trouble down the road.
what I would like to offer is a suggestion -- as a suggestion is to realize that -- that the farm in question is a certified organic farm.
i have sent you several times a -- an ordinance that deals with the importance of what organic farming and local organic farming can do to a community.
it's a wonderful measurement to -- to subsidize and help farmers without getting into all the -- all the problems that might arise if you were to do some type of -- of assistance through water, or through subsidies for tax apayments that people might illegitimately want to step up to the plate and it would be a hard thing to monitor and to control.
well, the federal government has already taken that into control with the organic program.
it would be a wonderful opportunity to embrace some of the concepts at woodbury county in iowa has done and they are truly -- to truly support our organic community.
and I would use this example as the opportunity to set this motion into operation.
that not only could you get into the water issues that are dealt with today, but you could also offer assistance from -- from what wood bury county did, was a three year tax abatement program.
so we could look at our community and decide how we want to help our organic farmers.
it's a very small group.
i can promise you that you will not be overrun with -- with hundreds of people.
so I don't think we have to worry about our tax base or some of these issues that you think might be a problem.
it could be a way to solve it.
>> melanie, let me suggest this.
i need to check to see exactly what the tax base is.
but for farms and normally your ranches, they have exemptions from paying the same type of taxes that you would have if you didn't have agricultural and/or farming exemptions, there are several type of exemptions where your property taxes are just basically assessed on the type of use that you are using for that particular property.
and of course depending on what it is.
sometimes it's minimal as far as the amount of money that you end up paying as far as taxes on that property.
tom trouble that you maybe get -- the only trouble that you maybe get into is when you stop the use of that exempted agriculture or farm or cattle or whatever else that you are raising.
when you get out of that type of use for that particular property, then you go into something they call a roll back.
i think they can carry back as far as about four or five years.
and so when they end up doing that, you have to go back and pay that amount of money when you -- when you stop using it as a farm or a ranch.
but what you have been doing as far as the tax is concerned.
>> that would be similar but this would go above and beyond that in that those exemptions can be pretty much manipulated but if you have -- if you have very small amount of cattle, you can get it.
this to get the certification program through the usda you don't do lightly.
it generally takes a year to prepare and get ready.
it takes three years, you know, to certify the land.
it's a big commitment.
so -- so this would be a very high tier level exemption that only a few very could qualify.
but there are several issues regarding water that should be addressed in this.
people that choose to use city water, not ground water, they shouldn't have to pay for wastewater.
so there -- there are other issues that -- that this is not the only issue.
it's -- this is a wonderful opportunity to get into the entire issue and let's do it right and support -- support our organic farmers.
they need our help.
>> thank you, ms.
macafee.
>> are we working together against those landfills?
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic]
>> anybody else?
if so, please come forward.
give us your name, we would be happy to get your comments.
>> my name is james green.
>> mr.
green.
>>
>> [indiscernible] I'm here to speak on behalf of tecolote farms in support of the farm and Travis County and hopefully we find a win-win situation for the farm and for the people of Travis County.
i have been a -- a supporter and subscriber of tecolote farms for five years now.
before that I spent three years on the waiting list.
to be a member of this.
and the pictures that you are seeing are the baskets that were delivered to us today.
this morning.
they were picked and harvested yesterday.
it's just a treasure to be able to have this kind of substance to eat and to -- to live on and share with our families and -- and I think if you all can just see what it is for us and how much -- how important it is for us.
i -- it's really a necessity.
and I hope that you can find, you know -- I've been hearing a lot of talk about -- about opportunities in different directions for finding a solution to this problem.
and I -- implore you and beg you to work with tecolote on this.
thank you.
but I hope you enjoy those pictures.
those are pictures of beautiful baskets full of fresh vegetables for people.
>> any questions?
thank you mr.
green.
>> thank you.
>> anybody else?
we do have two or three options that we need to discussion with legal counsel and we got another option from staff yesterday that we need to discuss with our lawyers, too.
so unless there are others who have come to give comments, unfortunately we have other open court items before we go into executive session.
and if I were a guessing county judge, as I am every Tuesday, I would guess that probably -- probably we have another hour to an hour and a half of open court discussion before we go into executive session and probably will be there at least an hour.
so ms.
macafee, we're looking at 5:00 again.
>> [laughter] anybody else?
to address the court on this item?
if -- if so, please come forward.
okay, then we will announce 25 for an executive session discussion when we go into executive session.
my guess is that many of you probably came down on the toll road item, joe.
which goes to fines and fees.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009 2:20 PM