Travis County Commissioners Court
February 3, 2009, 2009
Item 6
>> 7. Receive status report on visitation center construction project at Travis County community justice center (state jail) and take appropriate action.
>> the visitation center at the travis state jail has been completed. There are a couple of items that in addition that need to be completed before it can open. I'm going to ask kimberly pierce to kind of give you an overview of the status of that. Also a late development here that might affect this.
>> good morning, judge, Commissioners. As roger indicated the visitation center at the state jail is near completion with the exception of the parking hot that needs to be paved. I think also it needs to become a.d.a. Compliant with handicapped ramps. Attached to your backup are pictures that we took last week, also pictures that facilities management with things that were dedicated for the visitation center. I believe roger needs to advise the court on perhaps t.n.r. Provided us an estimate of $8,500. Of parking lot being paved.
>> probably going to be more than that.
>> well, that's what they provided us.
>> yeah. It's going to be more than that from what I understand. Go ahead.
>> good morning. Roger el khoury, director of facility management department. As kimberly stated that the -- that the visitation center has been completed back in -- in November of 2009. And there's a couple items left to be done, which were not part of the original contract that facilities management supposed to -- to construct, which is a parking lot and a roadway. This has been added later on. After we established our budget. And we get the contract with the contractor and the cost, so if you look at the backup for that -- that was given to you by roger jeffrey and you see what the -- what the scope of work for fmd versus the others, and -- and others need to state -- state jail supposed to pick up those items. And the contract for construction management between Travis County and the Texas county housing finance corporation specifically stated what our -- what our -- what our task and -- and in the backup there's one item, it says item 2.5, 225.12. And 22.5.13. Which is paving
>> [indiscernible] work and landscape. What you have right there is an old document and a new document it's supposed to be the -- the paving and landscape part of the -- that work done, service to be provided by others. According to the document on 10-19-06. I get it yesterday from john kelly. Just to set the record straight on that. We did all what you dodd do on the visitation -- whatted asked to do on the visitation center, even more, the state asked us to do a -- the site, utility design and we did it, I'm the engineer of the record. And we went ahead also we constructed the sewer line and electrical line from the state connection to the buildings. Which is under service to be provided by others. It's on 2-point -- 2.7.4 on your backup. Scope of work. And also under 2.2.7.5. We did that already in kind to make the project move forward and we done it all. So the building is ready to be occupied and to be used except that we have the a.d.a. Accessibility issues. Original intent of this building was to have a sidewalk going from the porch in the front to the -- to the permitted road, the paved area, so you have all weather surface from the paved area to the building. During the -- during the -- after we established the budget we have a contractor on board, and all, the state says from huntsville they say to move forward with the project you all need to give us the design of a parking lot and a handicapped parking. And a roadway. To the building only. So we did it to move the project forward. We put in the design, we give it to them. During the construction we talked to the state we said well this is not in our budget. What are you going to do about the roadway. We design it for you. Well the facility management department, my peer over there, he said that we're going to let the txdot do the work if you can bring the material and for the subgrade. And we did bring the material from other projects to the buildings and we did all of the subgrade. Now the state are ready to do the flexible base which is the road base and the asphalt. But apparently that's what they told us, they are going to get txdot to do us. When the time comes to do the work, txdot says we don't have money, we're for the going to do it. Here's what it's going to cost, 7,000 to $8,000 -- from 5,000 to 7500 to do the work. Well --
>> actually, 13,250. The parking lot, the asphalt is 5350 and the concrete 7,000 --
>> something like that. They cannot do it because they don't have no money. So they asking us right now to come out either with the money or to do the work. But with -- one more thing, they come out with a different layout right now, which is they're going to go -- they're going to do a road around the buildings. Not only to the buildings with the parking lot, they want now a road to go around the buildings. I believe we have an estimate ours within facility management from a contractor it costs about like from 20, $23,000. Now, t.n.r. Has different cost estimate to it which is much better I guess, you know, if they can do it themselves I believe for $8,000. How much is that cost?
>> $8,000.
>> they can do it themselves wonderful, $8,500. But if we do it in the private sector, like ask our contractor with the buildings to do the parking lot and the roadway around the building, that's going to cost about 20 to $23,000.
>> that's what the inclusion -- with the inclusion of the road that the folks out there say they want around the building.
>> yes.
>> and so all of these different movements of added change that we are seeing from the inception of this particular project, these added features, if not applied then we will not be able to use the building because they are holding that over the use of that building that's leveraged.
>> sure.
>> so -- so $22,000, 22, $23,000, if -- to -- to ensure that all of these things are done on the private sector side and if we were to do the design work and -- and t.n.r. And everybody else it's a court of law that -- that on the public side what would it cost?
>> I guess t.n.r. Gets a -- an estimate I believe to kimberly how much kimberly --
>> I provided that cost estimate to the court just a second ago. $8,500.
>> $8,500.
>> yes, sir, a little less than $8,500.
>> so I guess the question I guess I don't know in my mind is -- is the best route to do it but then also a building that's ready to be used after all of this investment and stuff all that we have done it's kind of in consideration. So the $8,500 version the 22, $23,000 and the $8,500 will have all of the things, all of the amenities, the a.d.a. Compliance, sidewalks, pavement, striping, of the parking lot and also the road around the building, I guess to have all of those components, am I -- am I right and correct in that assumption?
>> I believe the $8,500 is only for the parking lot, paving and the handicapped. I haven't heard anything about a road around --
>> the road is new to you then, I just heard about the road also. That just -- when did the road come up?
>> the road --
>> when did that came up?
>> it's in your backup right here. If you look at your backup on that. This right here shows the parking lot and roadway around the buildings. That's what the state wanted.
>> what I'm saying, when did that idea come up, though, during this process? In other words the -- you know, during the process we thought that we were ready to move forward. Hold it, we had to stop and according to what the state wanted us to do, because txdot wasn't able to afford to do it. I was just trying to figure out the when of all of that.
>> it did happen. It did happen that, you know, when we talked to them about the project, you know, and we said that certain item has to be done by facility management Travis County, it has to be done by the state. It happened before. And during the construction we have -- we have a minute -- the meeting minutes, you know, when those happened. Right now really we did -- we did design the building, the building is inside, all of it is a.d.a. Accessible. But the only thing that the -- that the -- that the accessible part of it from a parking lot to the building is not -- is not there yet. Either by sidewalk or by parking lot or by -- by roadway. Really that's what the matter right now to make sure that the buildings can be used and we -- and we -- after we build the roadway and the -- and the -- I don't think we should do a roadway all around the building. But that's what the state wants, that's fine.
>> but that -- I guess I don't know they are requiring that -- that the last minute looked like. I mean, as far as the road around the building.
>> exactly.
>> it's a last minute --
>> but -- but if this is what it takes to make that building usable, for about like -- I would say we should -- we should go forward and comply with it and get it done. That's my recommendation to the court.
>> well, t.n.r. Be able to do the road? In other words I'm trying to -- what I'm trying to come down to in my mind is the amount of money that we're going to spend as far as t.n.r. Doing the road or private sector doing the road. Can t.n.r. Do the road? If so, then for how much.
>> I think there might be a little confusion about the road. I think the estimate that the t.n.r. Put together was -- was to make the parking lot a.d.a. Com client, to have the ramp. So I think what's --
>> the $8,000 only goes to the handicapped parking lot according to t.n.r. By the sticky that I just got handed.
>> there's confusion about this road that has been proposed.
>> okay well -- roger, what's the confusion?
>> > I don't think --
>> roger.
>> either one. Both of you are talking about it.
>> the confusion, roger is telling me that the state want a road around the building. A road around the building 360 degrees. All the way around the building, I don't really know.
>> if you look at your backup, you have a sketch that shows the building, shows the road around the building with the parking lot. Has also the signature of the warden. So he want to have a road around the building.
>> around the building. What it is with hem, an extension to permit the road for security, that's what they think about it. That's why they want it around the buildings. Jim can expand on that.
>> all right.
>> > I'm jim barnes, facilities management. The road that we're talking about is a fairly short little thing. It goes around the -- around the visitors center. This would be in keeping -- this would be consistent with the rest of the facility, which has a perimeter road that goes around the entire facility. This is so that they can drive their security vehicle all the way around to make sure there's nobody hiding on the side of the building. Otherwise they would have to -- have to get out of their vehicle and go look at it. Or have a camera back there. But that's -- that's the purpose that the facility sees for that little road. In addition to the handicapped parking area.
>> so the handicapped parking is required by whom?
>> it is required by the state of Texas. For -- for tdlr.
>> wrap around is required by --
>> by the state. For facilities security. Now in theory --
>> up until a few days ago, we thought that the state would do the road.
>> uh-huh.
>> yes. The state felt like they could get txdot to do this work. Since txdot had done previous work out at the facility. But then when txdot came one the cost of the materials alone, the state jail did not have that in their budget.
>> who at the state jail have we been dealing with.
>> warden howe and jack daugherty, the facilities superintendent.
>> okay. I think that I should deal with the top state jail people at the state. And see if we can get either them to cover that or make a contribution. And we ought to be able to to make that decision in a week. Joe is coming over to tell us exactly what the $8,500 covers. That means that it doesn't cover everything. That means that it probably covers what we asked him to do last week and that is just the handicapped parking.
>> that's correct.
>> right?
>> that's correct.
>> so do we have an estimate on the total?
>> no. We don't. We weren't asked to look at that.
>> okay.
>> that was the point.
>> but I think that we ought to get a contribution from the state. The problem is I guess we did know that the parking -- the a.d.a. Parking probably would be required of some type, right? But the road is relatively new and our doing the road is even newer.
>> if no parking had been provided at that facility, but we provided a sidewalk pathway, to the parking lot, which is existing, then handicapped parking could have been provided at the parking lot for access to the facility.
>> and this is in -- the intention of the project at the beginning of the project because we have lots of parking lot over there and they have -- they can -- they can -- all weather surface, the only connection that we have to do from the road, which is an asphalt road to the building by means of sidewalk and that -- that's what -- would satisfy the -- the tdlr. But again they want the parking to be next to the buildings, that's another requirement by the state.
>> okay. How long will it take us to get an estimate of the parking spaces plus the little wrap around road?
>> that shouldn't take a couple of days.
>> okay.
>> I think that our position at the state ought to be that if anyone requires these, they really should make a contribution to cover the cost in total. I don't mind making that phone call, but you almost have to go to the top to try to get it done. I will need the estimate. If the court authorizes me, I will do that. Now, we are planning a grand opening because it doesn't make sense for the new building to be there and people still visitors still waiting in the parking lot. On call when the -- you know, inclement weather days. Can you talk to us a little bit about the grand opening.
>> I think we're clear on that. Friday March the 6th at 10:00 at the state jail is when they would like to have the dedication ceremony.
>> how did we arrive at that date?
>> I believe that is when the parole board I'm sorry tdcj legislative session and Fridays are normally a very good day for those folks working at the capitol.
>> two or three years ago when we went and asked them basically to partner with us, board members indicate an interest in being at the grand opening.
>> yes, sir, the board of criminal justice, they did.
>> I do they we ought to try to accommodate their schedule. But if we get this work done before that date, then I say let's just start using it, we can have the grand opening after a few days of use.
>> but tell them they are not getting an invitation.
>> [laughter] if they back off on these demands.
>> [laughter]
>> well, I think in view of our contribution so far, and theirs has been sort of modest compared to ours, I think we can make the case that fairness require that's they contribute more and, you know, when they start complaining about lack of funds, I'm -- I'm pretty good at complaining about our lack of funds, too. But to me it doesn't make sense for this beautiful facility to be there and us not using it.
>> one stipulation that we have gotten from tdcj facilities division, specifically their project administrator in beeville, is that before the state will recommend acceptance of the donation, the parking has to be in place, and then we'll have a final walk through, final punch list, the tdlr, the Texas department of licensing and correction, must inspect the facility and pass it for a.d.a. Compliance and then the -- the facilities division will recommend acceptance by the state as a donation. So -- so whether we can use it before that, I don't know. I can't --
>> not before the certification, I meant before the grand opening.
>> uh-huh.
>> before the ceremony.
>> but we need the -- we --
>> we need the powers that be.
>> yes.
>> okay. We don't get those with our handicapped parking and some sort of --
>> that's correct.
>> it's my guess, in fact, in fact it's my -- it's my opinion that the -- that the tdlr will require the handicapped parking next to the building, even though I believe technically it would not be required. But then you start getting into a negotiation about -- about, you know, who has got the -- who has got the momentum on that one.
>> well, if you have to do the road, two parking spaces, you have got to have it -- if it's just -- if it's to the parking spaces in back, not just in the building, you have got to have it wide enough to accommodate turning around and coming out, too, right?
>> that's correct.
>> these are larger than usual. The handicapped parking spaces which means they are larger. So the anticipation is that larger vehicles will need turn around space?
>> I believe we have provided that in the design, it will work even without -- in fact I believe what would happen is if we put that little circular road around the building, I believe that the facility would probably put signs at the entrance to the little -- the little circular road that would prohibit the public from using that just as the public is prohibited from using the perimeter road around the rest of the facility, because I think they would consider that a perimeter security road and not a turn around.
>> so that they can drive around rather than get out and walk the perimeter.
>> it's a more efficient way for the state to provide the security for the -- for the prison.
>> yeah.
>> so my argument will be that the road may make all the sense in the world from a security perspective, however, we never anticipated that we would build the road.
>> correct.
>> and in fact even a warden thought txdot would do it for him?
>> that's --
>> Texas department of transportation.
>> that was their hope that txdot would be able to reside that.
>> but that is mr. -- as the good newspapers reported, the txdot projects of this sort usually run about three times more expensive than if you can do them in house.
>> I think in this case what txdot had quoted was to pay for materials alone and I suspect that labor and equipment usage was not included in that cost. So I think, you know, because it was an internally provided state -- kind of like t.n.r. Does for us periodically.
>> probably also txdot bid on -- I mean look at the project as only a small connection from the permitted road to the building was a parking lot. Probably did not look at its going to be a roadway around it. I believe that t.n.r. Did the same thing. They did not estimate it, you know, right there to the road around it. Like what the warden wanted and what shows on the backup.
>> our estimate is about like between 20 and $23,000 to take care of everything, all weather surface. Not only a flexible base finish road on the roadway, it's going to be as faults and where they are going to park is going to also be an asphalt. Facility management at this time is doing the design. I'm doing the engineering for the parking lot and roadway. So if you want to meet the opening day in March, so I will have that, you know, the design done in a couple of days. We should move forward with the construction as soon as we can because it takes a little time.
>> is the board of the impletion that the Friday, March 6th -- impression that the Friday, March 6th date is firm.
>> I can get that for you, judge.
>> March 5th or 6th.
>> Friday, March the 6th.
>> joe, if we are able to generate say funding to get the parking spaces and the road done, is it better for us to try to contract that out with a small contractor? Or can we pay t.n.r. To get it done?
>> I think that it's going to be quicker to have t.n.r. Do it. I have not checked the schedule because of scope of work is quite a bit different than what we thought. We thought it was just a parking handicapped parking and a ramp. So I don't know the scope, so before I commit to be able to perform on a March schedule, I need to get back with don and see if we can divert our crews to do that. My guess is we can. I do warrants to make it clear, though -- I do want to make it clear, though, we are talking about some form of alternate funding other than road and bridge funding.
>> sure.
>> I would like to get a set of whatever plans that roger has so we can be actually estimating on the same bases. Ours does include, labor, materials and equipment. Our estimate was all encompassing. But it was for a different product. So I need to make sure that we go back out and look at what roger is proposing to do, what's needed. Give you an estimate. We also can confirm that t.n.r. Will be able to do it in the time frame that you are looking at.
>> to make sure that everything is -- is signed, sealed and delivered, in this particular situation, I want to make sure there's nothing in addition that the warden may want to throw out there. In other words what you have is substantiated, roger, in writing as far as what the warden had said as far as that wrap around road.
>> yes.
>> is that correct?
>> correct.
>> okay. So I just want to make sure that is the case when joe looks at it this that is the bona fide request that they are making and of course the costs associated with it.
>> for us looking the visitors center is the kind of partnership with the state that our intention is after this building opens the state will own the building and take responsibility for maintenance of that building thereafter.
>> that's correct.
>> so our responsibility hopefully will end after the speeches at the ceremony.
>> yes, sir.
>> > but the center is critical, though, because today the visitors will have to stay on the parking lot outside no matter how the weather is. We are told a lot of visitors take bus transportation out there. Wait outside until you go inside to visit. You go inside 20 to $25 at a time. So if you are lucky and you go inside immediately upon arrival, you don't have to worry about the weather except getting in and getting out. But if you are unlucky, you have to wait, it's either in your car if you drove there or they had a tent -- sort of half tent I guess, open tent on the parking lot for visitors to sort of wait under.
>> sometimes that wait is almost two and three hours. On the weekend --
>> this is the wait for state jail prisoners. Not people waiting to visit county inmates. These are state jails.
>> that's correct.
>> by and large residents.
>> a lots of children, too. The other thing is that the furniture there we kind of got from the warehouse, furniture that county staff apparently found no use for. We had pat ford and peter
>> [indiscernible] to sis let financial contributions to buy educational materials and toys for children and that has -- that is being held until shortly before the opening where we can take it out and basically make it available for use by children that visit there.
>> anything else?
>> is that a direction judge.
>> what I would try to do is reach as high as I can go in the state jail division and make the plea for the state picking up the cost or making a financial contribution to try to do the handicapped parking and this wrap around mood and hopefully get that done as soon as possible. Now, the state jail managers used to be here in Travis County, but now they are in huntsville, right?
>> some of them move in huntsville. Still here in Austin, but I'm sure now that the session started they are probably here today. Okay.
>> so I can get those telephone numbers for you, judge, if you would like.
>> okay, appreciate it.
>> there's one more item. It's related to the building itself. We designed the building, everything is done, completed. Except we have a children area room and also we have an office for the state official to be there. Those two offices are carpeted. The big main area it's just like a concrete, you know, sealed concrete. No carpet in there. We got a request to put the carpet in there. And I think that I could do it with our own program, I need the court to give me direction to do so because this is a fund from facility management, going to be placing the carpet. Is that okay with the Commissioners court? For me to --
>> how much could the carpeting cost?
>> $2,359.
>> I would make that part of the plea for assistance.
>> yeah.
>> okay.
>> so can we put that -- can third thought this on the list -- put this on the list of decisions for us to make the next week.
>> I'm feeling like this is also requiring saddle, bridle, shod for the next five years, you know. Where does it end?
>> we did not recommend to put in carpet in there. The reason is a maintenance issue. I don't think they are going to maintain the carpet and all of that stuff. But now the request came in for us to put the carpet in there, an additional cost that -- that facilities management has to bear if the --
>> this is a request from the state though,.
>> yes.
>> one question, what's the source of funding on the carpet?
>> general fund, it's facility management fund.
>> well, I think that -- I think may be an issue. You know, this is being funded out of the housing corporation. And I would -- there was a reason we had to go to the corporations to do this. I would defer to the county attorney on the utilization of general funds to go into this facility. The main reason why you want through the housing corporation two reasons, one is you had a donation and you were funneling through that, the other is a convenient source of funds. Surplus all of that. I'm not sure that we looked at it from a legal standpoint I would be happy to do so.
>> I'm just raising the issue before we use general funds.
>> next time be careful where you bring those issues up, projector.
>> even so that would still be part of the request that we are asking the state to share as far as the cost is concerned. Even though with the carpet, they may say well we can cover half or three-quarters of it.
>> in any case, after they take possession of the building, if they would like to carpet it I think they should do it.
>> [laughter]
>> yeah.
>> I thought that I should bring this to the court. By the way, overall, we have $275,000 in the project, in our fund by the corporation. And -- finish by 274,000. So we have $1,000 less, we can hardly wait for next week's discussion.
>> all right.
>> thank y'all.
>> thanks. Number 24, not 24. 25.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, February 3, 2009 2:36 PM