Travis County Commissioners Court
December 16, 2008
Item A2
A 2 is to support resolution by the Travis County historical commission for a historical marker at lions municipal golf course, and we have bob ozer and company here. If y'all would like to come forward. Both of you are more than welcome. I did get the resolution that the city of Austin -- is that the other one?
>> the other one, we've sent one to the city of Austin as well.
>> that resolution is on my computer now. If we approve this as is, we'll go ahead and run that out and sign it later today, okay?
>> very good.
>> okay. Well, we just -- first of all, we appreciate your cooperation, your help, judge Biscoe, and all the Commissioners in recognizing the historical significance of the lions golf course and the affection that this community has for that course, and the long attachment that not only people in west Austin have to the course, but people throughout the community. I want to say special thanks to judge Biscoe who kind of gave us some direction early on and also to congratulate him on that last shot on number nine that you kind of stuck close to the pin and then rolled in the birdie putt. We are very complimentary of your skills, judge.
>> I have to confess to being a caddy back in the old days.
>> that's right.
>> back in tyler, Texas.
>> that's right. And I think that that's something that we -- at least for me, I was not aware of the whole range of the history, and it's given I think all of us an opportunity to kind of consult with african-american caddies from back in the early tbift's and the late 50's in tyler and really round out some history of the city and Travis County and see how people -- some of the african-americans who were living in clarksville were walking over to the golf course and caddying before it was desegregated. I think we have drawn a conclusion at least that african-americans living in clarksville probably walked over and helped build the lions course as well. So we think it's an historic course and made this presentation to the Travis County historical commission. By the way, we got an enormous amount of cooperation from barry hutchinson at the Travis County historical commission. He was very, very helpful to us in drafting our memorandum. Now it's before the state and we'd like your support in terms of this resolution helping us get this marker for the golf course.
>> let me ask you a question. A couple of things. In this process, the resolution that the city has approved along with this -- hopefully the county will do a similar -- make a similar approval.
>> the city -- the city has a resolution before it, but I don't think we were able to --
>> it's not going to get to them until January, unfortunately.
>> let me correct myself.
>> [overlapping speakers]
>> I was understanding that they did it already. They haven't?
>> they haven't acted on it yet.
>> the question remains the same. With the resolution -- let me speak on the county. The resolution is the county supports this particular resolution to go forward. How long do you think it would take or what kind of impact do you think it will have on the state official? In making the decision? Has there been any ball mark?
>> as far as the university of Texas board of regents?
>> yes.
>> as we understand it, the official Texas historical marker that we're applying for through the Texas historical commission would not inhibit or prohibit the board of regents from doing what they want to with the golf course.
>> so they still --
>> so what we feel is that getting this historical marker will at least help to educate the community about the history of that golf course. And to help raise awareness throughout the community of the dangers of losing it. So it's a question of moral suaision there.
>> so the folks at the university regency board can override what we're doing it. It is still in their court as far as making a decision on that.
>> that's my understanding.
>> I wanted to flesh out the significance of what we're doing, but then the merit or the measurement of what we're doing. And of course, I think if the city goes and do it, as you stated earlier, public persuasion, hopefully that will make a difference, but we don't know.
>> well, it can't help but reinforce what the regents have heard from the community in terms of the importance of the course.
>> thank you. I'd just like to mention that general marshal, who is one of the caddies from clarksville who remembers walking over the railroad tracks, general marshal has been involved in the save municipal any efforts just as I have since 1973. And he was on the ad hoc committee to save muny back in '73 as I was and has served on the golf advisory board after that. And it's just been a wonderful way to understand his history, the history of Austin by going back and taking a look at what it was like back in the early 50's. And reading in the newspaper when the city council approved a contract to build a negro lounge at lions. Which indicated that absolutely the course had been integrated. So we've been able to uncover quite a bit through the Travis County history center, the Austin history center, and the various records that they keep. So we thank you all for your help and support.
>> now, when they were building that lounge here, they were doing a caddy shack in tyler?
>> [ laughter ] what I did not know until recently was that lions was if not the first, one of the first public golf courses to allow blacks to play golf in the united states. So that's remarkable history and it made me remember the old days.
>> in term of the old south, the confederate states.
>> and we had another -- one of general's kids in the neighborhood that he grew up with was a professor -- is now an orthopedist in nashville, dr. Bacon. And we have talked to him also. And he said that after -- right after the course was desegregated that the former heavyweight champ joe lewis came through town and played on the course, and there's just been so many things that we have -- and of course joe lewis was from early on one of the people that was involved in this country in opening up the game of golf to african-americans and fought against the caucasian only clause and the professional golf association constitution. And the way that what happened in Austin tied in in the history of the south not only in terms of segregation, but also in natural history. I think it's just been great for us to find this connection and this kind of history and this golf course.
>> hopefully this will make a difference. I will definitely support it. And of course we got to reserve some history. Everything look like it being taken away from us all across the board historically. And of course it has significance. I'm going to support this resolution, I tell you that now.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> any other questions, comments?
>> tell me, what are y'all supportive of with muny being? Anything?
>> a public golf course that that's affordable.
>> you want it to survey stay as a public golf course?
>> yes.
>> and what is your response to u.t. And the regions from a fiduciary standpoint?
>> the city council has passed a resolution asking the city manager to examine whether or not there are city owned lands that might be traded with the university as part of an option for muny becoming really city owned. So that the university might be able to develop another piece of land to gain funds rather than developing muny.
>> y'all have been -- the issue that I have here is you've got somebody with a huge asset. I would love for the thing to stay -- the judge and I have played many rounds of golf. I guess I do have some bit of an issue with telling people y'all figure out how you make that work from a financial standpoint. I don't know. Maybe this community, if you were to put it before a referendum, would say is that worth $100 million or whatever and go and buy it if you can't find a land swap.
>> there are other things that the city of Austin has done and is going for the university of Texas at Austin that are financially beneficial. For instance, the city practically gave the university 11 acres out at robert mueller airport. Also, they are making plans to bring a reuse water line from the walnut creek wastewater treatment plant to the university of Texas campus. And estimates are that bringing that reuse water to campus could save the university of Texas at Austin up to $750,000 to a million dollars a year. So there are a lot of things that the city is doing to help the university in a financial way that need to be recognized in this discussion about what happens to muny in the future.
>> was that a number that I'm fairly accurate with or has it been mentioned that that property might be worth --
>> I don't know -- part of what we're doing now I think in the process at the university has initiated with this cooper roberts is a method to try to put value to the land. So I don't know any appraisals or what the appraised value of the land is. I know that the city is thinking about this in terms of the swap, but I do want to say one thing about the university. And there is one other way that you can look at this, and that is that these assets that the university has, they also have oil assets that they have talked about selling. And I think that it's helpful to look at the pressure that's on the university and we all love the university and we particularly like the administrators and have a lot of respect for the -- for president powers who lives in the neighborhood and I believe has played at muny. But over the years from 1984 I think that you have seen a steady decline in state funding of the university. So if you go from a period around 1984 where the state funds 45, 46 percent of the budget of the university of Texas to a period now where the state funds 17 percent, and at the law school if you talk to the people at the law school, when judge Biscoe and I went there, the state was funding a lot more of that operation, and the last time I went to this fund-raiser for the law scal that's set here in Austin, the dean said that they were getting 13 percent from the state. So it puts a lot of pressure on the university to, one, raise tuition. And then two, find other means to meet their budget. And they end up selling off these assets which have a meaningful community and I think it to a certain extent can possibly fray the bonds that a community has for a great community. So when you're looking at overall resolutions for this, if you looked at different ways to fund higher education as opposed to the idea of just selling off the assets that you have, which is the same thing that they're doing right now in a lot of these failing businesses, businesses fail because they don't get enough revenue, and I think that a great university should have the support of the legislature and receive significant funding so that they can hold on to their assets. So there's a lot of ways to help the university might the needs that it has, and there isn't anybody I think in our organization or any of the supporting organizations that don't understand those issues. We just think that when they're making these decisions that the whole range of these considerations should be looked at. And we should hold on to muny.
>> with regard to the city and the value of the golf course, the city council has two items on their executive session for this coming Thursday in response to the council resolution about looking for land to trade or what have you. And the value of land is part of the wording in those two items on executive session for Thursday.
>> then hopefully they can work something out because I would love to see the golf course there too. It's a great asset. But I am a little cautious about just saying, go to the legislature and figure it out because we've been trying to get the legislature to say public education in this state, not just at the university level, is at issue here, which is the reason why we have the property values that we have. So it's easy to say legislature, do it. And perhaps they can find a way to do that. It does -- it did strike me as interesting when you say if we can get this historical marker out there that that really doesn't have any bearing on something. That would frighten me because I know that we had -- in western Travis County there was a low water bridge out there that somebody wanted designated to put a seal on it. Boy, once you put a seal on something as being deemed historical, to me that slows throws up a flag and we have our county attorney back there. If that marker gets put out there, that really will have no bearing. But y'all honestly believe that --
>> no, I don't think that there is a --
>> this particular category is called a subject marker. So what is being recognized as historical would be the early desegregation of the golf course and not necessarily the building or anything.
>> so from a legal standpoint, it wouldn't cause you any greater barrier to get over given the fact that -- I can see david coming to the microphone. And the legal opinion that is correct? That really wouldn't have any issue?
>> I have no idea. I was going to look at jim. I don't believe the question has been posed to us at all. I can tell you that an agency like the university of Texas has their own powers that come straight from the legislature and it would not surprise me that certainly they are not obliged to follow many city regulations, as the county is not either, other than health and safety. So it would not surprise me, but I cannot say for certain that that is the case without looking at it first.
>> move that we approve the proposed resolution with the change being to end this resolution as the county does its other resolutions and proclamations. We do it a little differently and those who support the resolution would all sign rather than just having me.
>> I'll withdraw my second and allow Commissioner eckhardt to second because that is in her precinct and I think she should be recognized for that.
>> judge, one more thing. My office did get a call yesterday with u.t. Saying that they had not been reached. I told them, I said duh. Do you think they're going to call you and ask you whether or not you would be a signatory or whether you would be one of these, whereas the community endorses this. Was the university given the opportunity?
>> I provided a copy to them just a couple of days after it was filed with the -- with barry hutchinson. --
>>
>> [overlapping speakers].
>> the consultant which the university of Texas hired is also aware of the desire to --
>> first of all, they've known -- we invited the university of Texas to participate in the golf tournament, to be a part of that -- the interfaith tournament. But like a lot of other people, they were scared off when they found out that Sam Biscoe was playing.
>> [ laughter ] but we made them aware of that and we communicated directly to president powers, and I have directly sent him a copy of this and also someone on his staff that's been involved with these issues. So they know what we're doing on this thing.
>> so in essence -- we really don't know what the regents are going to do, but in essence if this goes through accordingly, there will be a marker at that particular location that signifies that early -- that early players that were involved in it, the african-american players that were involved in this, it was actually desegregated it, and as far as what we look at, it's the first significant did he segregated -- desegregated golf course in the south. It would con know at a time all these things. I guess the point is if we do this, could the university override the significance of what we're talking about here?
>> if the Texas historical commission grants permission to put up the marker, all u.t. Could do to stop that would be to say, we won't give you permission to put it uppity golf course. -- to put it up at the golf course.
>> so they still have that power.
>> if they give permission to put it up at the golf course, they could still -- they could still develop the golf course for something else.
>> I think we can put up the marker, but they can develop the golf course. I park in the garage across from a state office building that has a marker for a church right in front of that garage. So you can have an historical marker that designates something of historical significance, but then can you have development there.
>> okay.
>> let me ask this just to put a cap on it. I -- while the university of Texas is aware of this historical significance that has roontly been uncovered and -- all the pieces have recently been put together, I am unaware of any desire by the university of Texas against this. I've heard of no opposition from the university of Texas to this recognition.
>> there was an article in the paper on the front page of the "austin american-statesman" about the historical significance of the golf course, and I believe that that article is posted on the university's website, isn't it?
>> on cooper robertson website.
>> I don't think that -- they haven't challenged the history and the research that we've done to this date.
>> I just wanted to put that out there because I didn't want us to speculate on any opposition from the university of Texas or ill will from them. I've heard none.
>> right.
>>
>> [ inaudible ].
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Thank you very much. We'll have that resolution ready by the close of day.
>> thank you very much.
>> we took that one out of order, thinking it would be a little faster than it was. Let's take up item 2 and then we'll go immediately to number 3.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:45 PM