Travis County Commissioners Court
November 4, 2008
Item 12
12. Consider and take appropriate action on request from parsons mounted calvary, a mounted military organization of the corps of cadets at Texas a&m university, for waiver or discount of fee to use the Travis County exposition center show barn to board horses for thanksgiving day parade. I put this on today because if we're not going to do this, then they need to find another place the sooner we let them know the better.
>> right.
>> there is a little history here. Is that what you plan to give, roger?
>> that's correct.
>> okay. Good morning, roger el khoury, director of facilities management department. In the past about three years and before, we used to have, you know, some decision making at the expo center for -- for certain things like this, you know, for free you know to come and just board the horses or anything just for free. In February of 2007 we stop of that, you know, when we came to the court with the new rates and we want the court to know about everything if they want to give an entity something for free or waive any fee or not. No more as the director of -- of expo center, so that would happen. The -- the person -- calvary did not board their horses in 2007. Otherwise we have been talking about that, you know, last year. So that's why we at facility management department -- we don't recommend to give a discount or a or a fee waiver for this particular event because this particular event does not -- is not eligible for that 50% discount under chapter 46, either. So -- so there's a $1,700 of revenue will be -- will be -- we will not collect if the court waive the fee for this event.
>> $1,700.
>> $1,700, I'm sorry, $1,700. Which is $900 for the rental of the show barn, we have $1,500 for the stall for the houses, also custodial for 200 and some -- some electricity and some staff that are going to be there, you know, on thanksgiving day. So -- going to be lots of revenue for facility management department.
>> the bottom line total is $1,700, a total of all of those different entities?
>> yes.
>> now, when I received a call from the gentleman that were requesting the service sometime ago, it was kind of left I really didn't know how to -- how to pursue it. I think that he had also probably already called the judge's office, also. But he -- the person that wanted this service provided was concerned because they were trying to get something here before thanksgiving. Of course, at that time I was not sure that -- that if there was an opportunity for the director of the expo center to actually just go ahead and grant that or would it take a court action to do what we are doing here today.
>> correct.
>> so -- so in -- in that particular regard and request time line, I -- I contacted the county attorney's office to get an opinion. On what -- how we should proceed in this. Of course they instructed me that since it was -- since it was dealing with money and things of that nature, then it had to come before the Travis County Commissioners court to grant -- that we would have to take an action to waive any type of fees or anything like that. That's why the Travis County involvement in this role. The whole thing. -- I didn't know whether we could get this thing done before thanksgiving or not but I told them that we could try. Thanks to the hard work of everybody getting this thing on so these folks can actually participate in the parade. For the -- for the -- these are Texas a&m folks from what I understand. But anyway to --
>> are you holding that against them?
>> no.
>> [laughter] I was teasing about that, that was a joke.
>> but anyway that was for joe gieselman. But anyway this is something that I think is worthwhile doing, I think that we should go in that regard and therefore I would like to move approval of this. And -- and if there's no other issues with it.
>> you are not recognized for a motion.
>> okay.
>> I put the matter on. As a last resort. This gentleman had been through everybody at the county apparently. When he told me that we had waived -- we had basically waived the fee in the past, the court had not but staff has. Looks like they have been coming every other year.
>> right.
>> even the years -- missing odd years.
>> correct.
>> the facility is available.
>> correct.
>> so if they are not using it, it's just there, right?
>> that's correct.
>> this is Texas a&m university and not john doe just doing a little private matter out there.
>> right.
>> in my view, we ought to do it in half. I'm reluctant to just waive the fee but if half of it is half of $1,700, then I think we ought to get that because we have been trying to eliminate the public
>> [indiscernible] the other thing he says, we can hold him to it, is that before they move out, they always clean it up. And apparently these are students, but the students and their parents get involved and they clean up the facility. Is he telling the truth?
>> I think, yeah in the past they cleaned the facility when they used it. So my recommendation to the court, how we go with this, this is news to me when I heard from it, it's not like I have a relationship with them. I would get half the fee we normally charge, keep them committed to cleaning the facility when they leave, they feed their horses and everything else.
>> right.
>> and -- and if they -- if they limit their activity to the show barn, then what I'm trying -- what I'm thinking is we ought to ensure that their impact on us is kept to a minimum but at the same time we ought to try to assist here. The -- the thanksgiving day parade, is that a city of Austin event? It's a public affair. And looks like they have been participating for years.
>> right.
>> that's right.
>> so -- so I hadn't thought about it a whole lot when I put it on the agenda. But I put it on the agenda because I figured if we're not going to do this, let's let them know so they can find another place for it.
>> what makes me comfortable judge is that they are willing to clean it up. The question would be capacity the impact on staff if you have to clean it up, you know, after they use it. But if they are willing to do that, I think that -- that goes a long way to helping.
>> usually the cleaning up it's going to be about like $200 that we use custodial, cleaning up the show barn for $200.
>> he did say that they -- you know, in this conversation, I don't know who -- I asked roger to put it on the agenda if he could before I go on leave, I requested roger to make that happen. Roger el khoury called and said it was going to be on the agenda. It doesn't matter who put it on the agenda, that's not the point.
>> roger did not ask me to put it on the agenda. I put it on the agenda in response to the request from the citizen and the citizen had talked with your office, roger, michael norton and others.
>> okay. I'm not saying he hadn't, judge. Let me just clarify a point. What have we done in the past? It was brought to my attention that they hadn't ever actually paid a fee. Is that true.
>> the colby, the previous management for facilities management and directors before, they used to give this events for free, you know, they waive the fee provided that they will clean up after they leave.
>> okay.
>> again in 2007, just as I mentioned in February of 2007, we brought it to the court's attention all events for free or waived by the director no longer -- will be brought in front of the Commissioners court to make, you know, the Commissioners court to make a decision.
>> okay.
>> we had in 2007 February 2007 we changed all of the rates, you know, and making it clear that the director has no authority anymore to give anything for free without coming to the court.
>> okay. Well,, that was under a previous director that those particular free waivers were 100% in -- and they didn't --
>>
>> [multiple voices]
>> it was under previous director of the expo center, that is correct.
>> at the direction of the center --
>> okay. That clarifies things.
>> yes.
>> okay. Thank you.
>> may i?
>> sure.
>> yes. Roger, $1,700 fee entirely, right.
>> that's correct.
>> that would cover the whole thing.
>> and there are 62 cadets and one adult supervisor who intend to spend the night at the facility with the 36 horses?
>> yeah. They spend the night at the facility.
>> okay.
>> and they have a cookout dinner as well while there.
>> yeah.
>> is there any legal impediment to providing them a discount or a waiver?
>> the point a couple of years ago -- the court a couple of years ago did adopt a policy for granting waivers for use of the expo center. The requirements for granting the discounts under the policy are -- have themselves been waived by the court when the person requesting the discount doesn't technically meet all of the requirements. For example, they are supposed to derive all of their funding from Travis County government, the agency or department that's requesting the discount is managed or directed by appointees of the Commissioners court, et cetera. But I do point out that the court that granted, notwithstanding this policy which serves as a guideline, the court has granted discounts to entity that's don't technically meet those requirements.
>> it doesn't follow our policy, but we have the authority to waive our policy.
>> that's correct. Again because it involves the waiver or a discounts of a fee which the director does not have authority to.
>> okay. I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be kind of the big meany here. At $1,700 fee, which in my mind is a rather nominal fee for 62 cadets, that's less than 30 bucks per cadet. Not including the horses, that seems like a rather reasonable fee for the -- for the space provided. This $1,700 is what we would charge anymore.
>> this is a normal charges for somebody boarding a horse for that money horses because at the show barn it's $900 a day. Then in the normal situation, then we -- we would let the horses also be in each horse has its own stall, you know, because of everything comes with it. $15 per day, for horses it would be about $450 for 36 horses. For one day show event the time it would take to clean the show barn, the fee to clean the stall itself it's $5 per -- per stall
>> [indiscernible] combining all of those costs 900, 450, 200,n150, that's what come up of $1,700.
>> according to their e-mail wxy say nonrco stalls will be involved.
>> uh-huh.
>> this is in a normal situation that's what we do all of the time.q&c"peiekvaunr s if they don't want toxd use a stall, then we can waive -- we can remove the stall.
>> $15 per horse --
>> the 50 and 150, about $600 related toni the stalls.
>> the $1,700 fee could actually come down if they weren't using stalls instead just hobbling horses.
>> 1100.
>> okay.
>> but we have to have the custodialnr fee. If they are going to clean, make sure that you knot -- the -- the show barn is as clean as they got it after -- before they leave. Then you can waive another $200 custodial fee to clean the show barn.
>> it could come down to 900.
>> let me make sure, though, we always would like to have our custodial staff to clean the show barn because we make sure that it's cleaned right for the next event. Always the custodian would like to keep it, you know, in house to make sure that it's done.
>> my point being that through some further conversation, even the regular fee might come down to as low as $900.
>> correct.
>> that's the show barn rentalnr fee. N what can we determine, I guess this is where I'm getting kind of cross-ways. Here on the one hand we allow waivers and let me ask this question -- who have we granted or have we granted 100% waiver of fees for persons using that expo center? I mean, we have -- I think somebody -- if somebody can answer the question --
>> you granted --
>> [multiple voices]
>> waiver fees for persons using that facility.
>> for entities --
>> give me an example.
>> the esd number 4 for instance. Chief don smith, have $100 or two hundred dollars to cost for the electricity and rental but we waived the fee, the court waived the fee for that. That entity fall under the chapter 46 which is a 50% discount. The court decide you know choose to give an even further discount to only like pay for the direct cost of utility.
>> I just wanted to clarify that there's also -- there is a legal impediment with respect to in most circumstances granting the benefit of the use of the expo center with no consideration whatsoever. There may be consideration in another form, but that's why the -- the policy addresses discounts not waivers.
>> wears. -- waivers.
>> probably the recommendation would be that this group sign or execute a license agreement, reduced fees, other requests that they have made be reflected in exhibit d to the license agreement which addresses such terms and conditions. By the court approving that, you are approving the expo center director to sign that license agreement.
>> okay.
>> also the licensing agreement does have the insurance liability. We have to bring the insurance and liability with that. Even though if you grant them a waiver orxd fee orcoco discount theyni still have to present for us, you know, the insurancei and the liability.
>>
>> [indiscernible] what's the gentleman say they could do? Did he say they could supply the court with the insurance policy and they would be happy to execute any kind of release of liability. If we ask them to do the things that you mentioned a few minutes ago. The fee gets down to $900.
>> that's right.
>> but that's contingent upon them keeping their commitment to do those things.
>> correct.
>> half of $1,700 is $850. Seem to me we're real close. I'm not suggesting that we go to zero. This is Texas a&m university. Historically the fee has been 0. Not to our knowledge because the director waived it. And there is a motion?
>> I move that we go forward with the recommendation that -- judge that you had made. I want to make sure this goes through accordingly with the reduced amount discounted amount and also with the license agreement between the court and the party to allow this event to take place and for them to house their particular horses and all of the other necessary things that --
>> second.
>> for $850.
>> okay.
>> discounted fee.
>> half the fee, insurance, waiver of liability.
>> all of --
>> [multiple voices] ,d that's based on gettingt. Away from the practice of what we didbjz the past with zero under another director and another setting. This is a newcoxd day.
>> would there -- >fdco $850. Of theni January inventorialni not -- janitorial not leave it up to them. 850 plus $200 forni the janitorial?
>> what.
>> I wouldn't -- I want --
>> [multiple voices]
>> I just think whoever -- whoeverni monitors our cleanup, if you got 62 peopleni there, if each of them does a little bit, you can get a whole lot done in a little time. I mean I just -- I just think up front we ought to let themco know. They may not be abler the 850 anyway. They are committing to leave a facility in a shape as they find it. We ought to hold them to that. Whoever supervises the custodians would have a look I think before we release them, right? I think we ought to do that.
>> okay.
>> okay.
>> the 850 which will include their provision of the cleanup services.
>> exactly, yeah, so we don't havenr to spend the $200 for our folks to have to do it.
>> it should be to the director's satisfaction.
>> and stalls.
>> no stalls.
>> no stalls.
>> ni no stalls.
>> right.
>> per their letter. It says their -- no stalls will be involved.
>> right.
>> okay.
>> nr so to sure if I may, it's going to be $850, no stalls, they are going to clean, we are going to make sure they clean it good.
>> thank you.
>> seconded by Commissioner Gomez. Any more discussion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Thank you very much.
>> thank you. Sisters.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, November 4, 2008 1:38 PM