Travis County Commissioners Court
October 21, 2008
Item 8
What item are you all here on?
>> 8. 8. Consider and take appropriate action regarding lease space for the information and telecommunications systems department applications development team. Questions?
>> good morning. Roger el khoury, director for facility management department. I have with me the senior project manager leslie strickland.
>> let's hear if there are questions. Questions?
>> judge,.
>> I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.
>> I don't mind at all.
>> when I look at this, I saw the point of satisfying a need for space for four f.t.e.'s, I said okay that's something that we need to look at. When we looked into the backup, I saw what was being requested was to locate these four f.t.e.'s in lease space. Which didn't come across to me as something that -- that I need doing. So I was beginning to wonder why when we have -- when we have space available that we own. We're saying this is significant, in my opinion, because of the fact that -- that -- that we're talking something over $100,000 a year for a three year lease. The space the airport, already, hookups, everything else, we need modification for those its persons to locate at the airport. When you -- when you -- even if it's not close to the court system, I don't think 187 some odd thousand dollars in gas money, that's what it would cost.
>> [indiscernible] opposed to having to spend all of this mornings didn't add up in my opinion. Now if somebody can get to me that -- can convince me the convenience of locating right across the courthouse for 180 some odd thousand dollars a year is the way to go, maybe that's what we should do. As long as we have space that we have already paid for, that was some of the concern, that we have gone out and we've purchased property so we can get out of the leasing business. That's -- let's get out of the leasing business. When I saw this it may me think are we going the opposite direction. And I don't think 180 some odd thousand dollars a year in my opinion you can't use that much gas for four people. Airport, 51st, all of that area in there, come downtown. It just doesn't add up to me. I just think that's a waste of money. But anyway, I hear what y'all have to say, maybe somebody can convince me different that it's worth $180 some odd thousand dollars a year to come downtown with four f.t.e.'s. If you convince me, I'm willing to hear it.
>> Commissioner, my understanding is that we worked through this plan was we are at this moment, we need four spaces, we are four people short. We also have a couple of positions that are open, then in the intergovernmental positions need space on the fifth floor. So we would have to -- that would increase our need to six spaces.
>> well six.
>> and then let me see if I can --
>> convince me.
>> yeah, let me see if I can explain
>> [multiple voices]
>> the people that would be moving would not be four people. We would be moving people from the data center up to make space in the data center, we would want to move 13 people out of -- of our space right now, which would free up space for the six people that we need to move back into the space that we are living in right now. And in addition to those six, we would then add the four -- I mean, we would add two more to do identity management. And the b fit project. So we have -- we would have some space left over if we moved the 13 out. The reason that when we worked with the facilities on this solution, on this recommend indication, is is that we now have staff scattered in five locations. We were hoping, we are interdependent. We are a department in its as you well know that we are interdependent on each other. When we do application development, that staff spends a lot of time working with -- with it staff at the data center in the -- in the network area, in the system area, and we have changed our philosophy on development and we are developing faster by working with users. So we have users visit the -- the scrum room, if you will, often. About 73% of our applications that are planned for the next two years are planned with business units that are in the central business district. So having said that, what could happen is we -- we definitely, our staff could live a 10 minute drive away. The inconvenience and the lack of productivity would come from the 73% of the business unit. We would take them away from their office and they would travel. And that's -- I understand that it's a cost decision. However, we feel it would lengthen the development cycle and thus reduce our productivity. We -- because we're a department, we thought this would be, this lease space is an interim solution until the campus master plan is presented.
>> but in that interim, you mentioned a very important word, interim. And I am looking at this in the interim. I'm treating it as an interim. Those six people could easily locate at airport, got six --
>> 13 people.
>> 13.
>> well, 13. But part of that could be located out at airport. In other words, utilize that space there. And it just appears to me that even at that range, you could still transport back and forth and during the interim because I just -- I saw that and I just think that the connectivity and of course let's look at this for what it is. Technical people and technical folks are mobile. And they have to be. You have to be gone from this place to that place or whatever the deal is.
>> this group doesn't. This group sits still.
>> of course that new building is not the one that we are converting which was in item 9 to just start some of the renovation placed in today's agenda hasn't happened yet.
>> right.
>> that's going to happen. In the interim why not use the space at airport and use basically gave -- you basically gave a portion of the explanation, I couldn't see spending 180 some odd thousand dollars a year when we have space out there at the airport to utilize.
>> it is a difficult decision and I will tell you that our --
>> [multiple voices] -- our desire is to keep our staff
>> [multiple voices] not spread out and closer together
>> [multiple voices] it's a matter of productivity in our opinion.
>> I understand that. But it's a matter of money to me.
>> absolutely.
>> it's a matter of money to me. When we are up on hard, close budgetary constraints and we are under tight budget situation anyway, these are tough times.
>> yes, sir.
>> we're going to have to look for ways to piggyback and even though, you know, I would like to have a conveyor belt maybe running from over there all the way to the courthouse, just get on the conveyor belt land right in front of the judge.
>> me, too.
>> right in front of the desk, but that's something that's not going to happen. We are talking about over 300 some odd thousand dollars in three year period. That's big money especially as hard -- in hard budgetary times
>> [multiple voices] we can look at, we can tighten our belt in, do some things innovative, even though it may be inconvenient, I don't think you can run $300,000 as far as gas money from airport boulevard downtown to where you need to be dealing with some facts stuff.
>> I appreciate your position, Commissioner. Just I feel like our job is to tell you how we best perform. That's all that I can presents to you this morning. I understand the budget restraint. It's --
>> [multiple voices]
>> definitely a scale that you have to weigh. But we are asking to keep our staff in close proximity with each other.
>> I understand.
>> and we appreciate your position.
>> I would like to accommodate you. But I just think for 300 some odd thousand dollars to make that accommodation at this time, is something that I just can't support, especially if we have got space that we already own that's available. We need to look for some space available where we can still continue to work and I just don't believe that $300,000 of gas can be -- can be -- can be utilized for your folks to move around in that amount of time.
>> one of the other considerations that we talked about was that the original space we looked at was our disaster recovery space. And with -- with all of the disasters that the nation has incurred we have been trying to build a disaster recovery space for the last five years. So we kind of hesitate to want to give that up. We are building it out. We have met with people that already have plans in place. And have money budgeted. So that was another concern. We just wants to share with you what our desire is. I think you need to look for ear ways to do business, because really it's going to get a lot worse before better. There's no doubt in my mind it's going to happen. I think before anybody comes up here and asks me to support some stuff that you think maybe convenient we're going to have to look at what the price of that convenience and that's the bottom line. What is the price of that convenience.
>> that's a good point. It's price versus cost. And I submit to you that -- that the productivity, I believe, would cost more in the long run than the price. But that's my opinion.
>>
>> [indiscernible]
>> facilities?
>> okay. We in facility we look at space in the downtown area for any department that want to expand and they want to stay in the downtown area there's no space available in county owned buildings. Then we have to go to lease. We make it -- that clear to -- during the budget process.
>> [one moment please for change in captioners] in the process.
>> let me say these last words and that is --
>> let's hear from leslie, then we'll come back to you.
>> thank you, judge. There are actually two possible spaces out at airport boulevard that the relocation for the 13-person applications development team and i.t.s. Could go to. One uses six existing offices that need some refurbishment but would require partial buildout of about 1500 square feet of the area targeted for the disaster recovery center it it would reduce it from 5,000 square feet down to about 3500 square feet.
>> that's right.
>> so there would still be some space left for that function. The other alternative -- that's at 5555 airport boulevard at the back of the building that the sheriff's office is in. The other space option at airport boulevard is on the second floor, 5501 airport boulevard down at the north end where we have the two-story section, immediately behind the i.t.s. Training center. Currently we have about 6,000 square feet that has a ceiling in it but is otherwise an open space that would need to be built out with about 14 offices and the work work area. We developed costs for both of those options for that buildout at the 5555 building. The buildout would cost $128,245. At 5501 airport boulevard, the buildout would cost $139,210. That includes allowance for moving the i.t.s. Staff out there. And also includes the i.t.s. Connection cabling and equipment costs. Those would be f.y. '09 costs. The alternative at 9th street would cost an estimated $141,329 in f.y. '09. So the f.y. '09 costs are very close whether you move to airport boulevard or stay in downtown in the leased space. The reason for that is the space at the 9th street lease is already built out. It's space the d.a. Used to be in and the walls and doors, everything is perfect for i.t.s.'s use. No renovation would be needed there. The landlord would do some minor cleanup, paint and carpet that they normally do. There is an allowance for i.t.s. Cabling to be redone in that suite. That cost might come down depending on the results of testing the existing cabling. Right now they are saying be conservative so we're looking at the 141,000. That compares to 128,000 or 139,000 at the two airport boulevard options. So they are very close. The difference, of course, is in the f.y. 10 and f.y. 11 fiscal years where you are looking at slightly over $100,000 for the annual rent. However, the space that you obtain over there, this group of 13 people would not fully occupy. There is room for up to 12 more people to move into that space. So as roger said, if you have the need for any department in the granger building to expand in f.y. 10 or f.y. 11, we're going to have to go to lease space anyway do you want if those are departments that need to stay downtown. One of the considerations was that an additional group out of i.t.s. Could potentially move to the #th street space and be compatible with the taff already moved in there and in f.y. 10 or 11 and that would vacate additional space in the granger building.
>> would there be space at 5555 or 5501 to accommodate the additional team, additional compatible team?
>> yes, there would, but it would require building out. There could be costs associated with it that would roughly off set the lease cost.
>> so either lease at a certain dollar space that's ready to go or you build out at a certain dollar space that's not ready to go. The lease space -- so it's kind of a wash dollar-wise. So that's why the operational impact to the department is worth considering. If you decide where you want to spend the money, do I spend the money on leasing space that's already built or do you want to spend the money on building out space that we own.
>> that's just one year. I mean, if you go to the -- where you pick up something is year 2 and 3, if you go to the space you own.
>> right. The airport location, the people we felt we could move to 9th street that would still be close to the data center or some people that would need to go and work on servers in the data center, so I'm not sure airport would be -- we would have to rethink. We would have to rethink who could take up --
>> the computer business, whoever it is, I'm not going to give nobody no recognition as far as these folks that sell computers and all that stuff, but they have staff, they send our staff out to serve -- serve computers, servers and anything else you have in the computer world. They actually are mobile where they do that. In fact, you can even buy additional coverage to make sure you have on-site service and all this kind of stuff. That's what I'm talking about is that we're going to have to start maybe looking at the way other businesses operate, where they send folks out in the field from wherever they are coming from to serve that particular -- those clients. Well, Travis County is your client. And, of course, as Travis County being your client, I think we have to look at models as far as what they are doing. Regardless of where they are located, but they are mobile to take care of the business. This is where I'm coming from.
>> we are mobile, Commissioner. We do serve people at their work stations.
>> I understand.
>> I'm not talking about the staff that can be mobile. We're talking about --
>> well, you said several.
>> we're talking about staff that have to support all of the large systems that work in the data center that have to support application development. Those people aren't mobile. They are mobile, but they are not mobile.
>> I understand that too, but the point is being out of proximity from downtown, in my opinion, is if they have to come down here, wherever they need to be sitting at to take care of the business. I was just using that as an example.
>> right.
>> just strictly as an example to try to indicate that I just think this is -- in my opinion.
>> right. And I think this campus master plan, we believe it will come back, based on our research with gartner and burton and it will probably recommend putting i.t.s. As a service organization because we are interdependent in one location. So that we can be more productive.
>> and I wouldn't doubt that I can foresee that, but for right now, that's why I said, mentioned to you earlier interim, interim. We've got to think that way because we're under an interim situation here where we aren't on solid ground as far as revenue coming in here.
>> right. And I do want to end with this. We are a Commissioners court department and respectfully we will make do and do the best that we can with the environment that is afforded to us.
>> I understand. But thank you, though. I appreciate that.
>> are there people that you could send to airport that would not be as integrally involved with the downtown need, I mean if -- have you all thought about that? Yeah, there probably could be some people that we could say, they really don't have to be down here like this group, but you say they really have to interface. Have you looked at are there?
>> in my organization, and I have the project team and the application support team and the application development team, and project and application support, their business district is higher than 73%. So I'd need to look to the other side of the i.t. Organization, which is the technical services side and the help desk side, and joe would need to be here to look at that. We did look at that, but that -- that would be a much more costly thing to move than my organization because that -- that pulls into the move of a lot of equipment. My staff are the analysts and their equipment is provided to them. But we -- definitely something we could look at, Commissioner.
>> what's the -- what's the source of funding? Whether we lease or renovate?
>> the source of funding, it's between -- for the lease would be allocated reserve, and for the i.t.s. Cabling and equipment would be core reserve.
>> so you don't have any money, basically.
>> no, it's supposed to come from -- yeah, we don't have that.
>> let's take another week.
>> okay.
>> give us a memo or something in writing explaining why the 9th street location is better for you of these two possibilities. I guess best of these three because we've got two out on airport. What's the -- okay, now, we had that disaster recovery space.
>> right.
>> and when do we plan to build a center there?
>> we are in the process right now. We've got all the design going. We have some changes.
>>
>> [inaudible].
>> all right. So we're working on that.
>> yes.
>> do we plan to use all of that space for the disaster recovery?
>> yes, for now, yes, we are trying to use all of the space, but there's some space, you know, that can be worked out for additional offices.
>> I think we need to know exactly what space is really available.
>> 5501 is available, judge, and we have 5,000 square feet over there of empty space and also next to the i.t.s. Training center.
>> we don't have any plan for it. Right now no plan for it.
>> we did look at joe's organization, but I really would -- we can go back and take a closer look.
>> let's do that between now and next Tuesday.
>> I would also ask before next Tuesday if we could get the i.t.s. Perspective and the f.m.d. Perspective on what the five-year plan is for swing space and how you all feel you should ultimately function. I completely get that you all are feeling very fractured geographically. Even moving to 9th street it would peel off yet another piece into another building.
>> right.
>> so I'd like to know where we're going over the next five years from i.t.s.'s perspective and f.m.d.'s perspective in regard to where are we going to swing people out to while we figure out where they should ultimately be.
>> okay.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> no, thank you. I appreciate your comments.
>> thank you.
>> are we ready for 17?
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:38 PM