Travis County Commissioners Court
June 17, 2008
Item 18
Joe, 18 is discuss and take appropriate action on proposed park fees for the community pavilion at east metropolitan park and rest scraition of at athletic fields at all county parks. We did get input.
>> yes, sir.
>> any of that so critical you need to mention it today?
>> I've got kurt with me and we can run over it fairly quickly for you because we know you guys are dealing with time schedules this afternoon.
>> kurt neilsen with t.n.r. Parks. We held four meetings throughout the eastern side of Travis County. We had five members of our athletic community show up and they represented several different organizations. Nobody had any -- to summarize it, nobody had any real concerns with it, however, we did receive an e-mail just yesterday from an adult softball user who had some suggestions. And I don't know if -- did everybody in the court get a copy of that e-mail?
>> was that the suggestion that we match the city of Austin?
>> no, the suggestion was actually -- to summarize the suggestion, one was that we have $150 per day cap so that it wouldn't -- it would never exceed that much, our per hour fee would never exceed 150. And the other that we would consider a senior citizen waiver for people over 50 years old.
>> but 50 is the new 30. And remember, aarp has membership starting at.
>> . -- starting at.
>> .
>> other than that, all the comments that we received through our meetings were from athletic organizations and there were some minor concerns, but they all understood and were supportive of whatever the court decides.
>> what kind of input did you have on that?
>> we did not receive, Commissioner.
>> and my whole concern about the provision is that
>> [inaudible] it needs to be portable. I think the amount of money we have here is kind of out of that affordable range. When we first started looking at this full scenario, there were a bunch of poor folks over there and folks wanting to be a part of what we're doing and have been a part of what we're doing. We wanted to make sure that it has affordability to it. We know this park is not only -- east central park is not only for the folks of eastern Travis County, but it's for everybody in Travis County and anybody else that wants to come in and enjoy the facility. But it's located in a part of the community whereby it just needs to be in a range of affordability. So I would suggest that that needs to be bumped down significantly to show affordability and I would like to recommend maybe $125 per day for park hours for their pavilion. And still $50 for our minimal of two hours, I would like to bump that down to $25 per hour minimal of two hours. So that would be something I would like to recommend. I don't know if the court would go along with that, but I'm trying to make sure that we don't -- we do not close the doors on folks that have some economic challenges to bar them out of something that they worked hard toward us bringing forward and having available for them. So --
>> Commissioner, if I may, the -- we did lower our recommendation from what was the original and -- and what you are recommending is actually below what we are currently charging for much less facilities within our parks. We do lease concessions, and with open air part of titleville yons, and -- open air part of titlevillance and the price of what you are proposing is currently more than a facility substantially higher in quality. And have been doing that for many, many years now.
>> I understand. Let me put it like this. We have not been able to match and we looked out at other pavilionsin the county and we dt know what those other folks are doing. I do know that the example, the little area of little webberville I think is $60 per day or whatever it is over there, I don't really recall what the fee is. What is the fee as little webberville? Big webberville, I'm sorry. What is that?
>> for a large shelter at big webberville would be $50.
>> $50, okay. And what I'm suggesting is that this be brought down to -- since we have never -- what are we asking? $500 a day?
>> I'm sorry, Commissioner, it's $75.
>> for a large concession at weberville, $75 a day.
>> but that is an open air.
>> we're talking economics and we're going to retire that debt service anyway. The folks, the taxpayers have said yes, okay, we want this over near, we've done it, and I want to make sure that we do not force ourselves out of persons that would like to use this facility out of market. And that's what I'm trying to get to, what would be the best suggestion and I'm falling on the $125 a day to make sure folks have an opportunity to use the facility for all the park hours. And that's affordable to a whole lot of folks. And I want to make sure that facility is used and not price folks out of that facility. $500 a day is price ago lot of folks out. That's my point is that we don't want to price folks out of using that facility. And that's what we're doing here. I think at $500 a day.
>> is there a minimum number of people that can -- I mean stl any kind of head count when somebody comes up and says I want to rent the facility?
>> we estimate capacity of 200 people.
>> but I'm just saying that if a person comes up and says I want the place and I don't know whether I'm going to have 25 people or 200 people there, there are no limits on that, right?
>> correct.
>> can you use this facility and make money off of this facility?
>> yes.
>> then that's where you have an issue or that's where I have an issue with Commissioner Davis' deal on this thing. I think people use facilities to make money, you know, on projects or on situations like this and --
>> we didn't do anything -- why wouldn't we let you reserve for half a day?
>> we had a per-hour fee.
>> we have an hourly rate of $50 per hour, judge, but a minimum of two hours. That's what's being recommended. As far as making money, we are not in the making money business here as far as providing the activities to our park and if that's the case --
>> I'm not talking about us, Commissioner. I'm talking about the people that go in, rent the facility, they turn around and make -- that's what happens with the ball diamonds. I'm not talking about us. I mean the reason that I asked, you know, to begin with I said just justify your price. I mean if $500 is what you need, then --
>> but can stipulations be made on that. We've got folks that maybe want to have a little ceremony -- well in fact, let me go back to a graduation ceremony. Not too long ago when students were graduating from the -- whatever school district it was, I went there and it was on a Saturday, I believe, and I went there and was showing the pavilion to some folks and there was a graduation ceremony being conducted there. I don't think they were out for profit. They wanted to make sure that those children and the kids were properly entertained in a graduation event ceremony. So for people to use it for other reasons than that there may need to be a consideration made, but with something like that I think --
>> well, we do have a rate for community organizations like if the neighborhood association wanted to use the facility. We don't charge them this rate. So we acknowledge that there are community functions that should be able to use that facility at a substantially reduced rate, as we do at all our town halls whether it's the east service center, west service center. But when a private individual comes in to hold on wedding, a party, this is the rate that we're trying to get at. Basically $500, if you are using it for private purposes, you are basically taking it off the market for public use. We charge you 500 bucks to do that. But if you are a neighborhood association and you want to use it for your neighborhood meeting, that's different.
>> all right.
>> I have a couple of questions. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I just wanted to let people know I did have a couple if you did want to -- go ahead and I'll --
>> were you done?
>> no, I'm not through, but go ahead. Go ahead, Commissioner, I'll yield to you.
>> considering most events run about three hours long and in my previous life as someone who did this kind of thing, walk me through it if you are a private individual coming in to throw an event that's three hours long, it looks like it's $150 to throw such an event with a $200 deposit and a $10 reservation fee.
>> that's right.
>> so at the end of the day the event is successful, you clean up properly and haven't broken anything, it's 150 bucks for the space for your event.
>> actually 160.
>> so the four-hour event that's 210, 210, and -- I can't express my -- how incredibly beautiful this park is. I am full of envy. The park in my precinct is -- many parks in my precinct are gorgeous, this is quite a beautiful park and facility. Perhaps -- we have the ability to track the zip codes of the people who are utilizing the pavilion is my understanding.
>> correct.
>> so perhaps we could do a pilot at this cost and track the utilization by zip code and see what the utilization is by the neighborhoods surrounding the park and then revisit the fee after we've seen if the price point is appropriate. We currently have three months of information regarding who is utilizing it for free, and we could see how, if at all, the utilization patterns change with this pricing structure over a six-month period. Would that be useful?
>> what pricing structure?
>> the $50 per hour with the two-hour minimum.
>> I wouldn't start at $500. I would start at more than 125.
>> what would you suggest?
>> $300. My motion is that we do $300 per day. I would also -- I don't know that I'd start at $50 an hour with a minimum of two. I'd have it more like 35. Do we need a $200 deposit or can we drop that to 100? If you have $300 per day cost, I would have me a $100 deposit. And that's a deposit that you lose if you don't keep your commitment and come use it and deliver the other $100, right, or the 200 bucks. Also if you don't clean the facility when you leave, you forfeit this. This is leverage to get cooperation.
>> right.
>> I would do that and I would look at it --
>> I don't have no problem with that. I just know -- and I second that motion, judge. I threw that out for the sake of discussion to let folks knee I think it's too steep. Anything left on that $500 amount is kind of in the middle ground of all of this is something I can live with. But there has to be something in place, but I guess the point in what Commissioner droughtry brought up is something I hadn't considered and that's folks want to go make a profit on it on the private sector side and that's in for profit and wanting to use the facility to make money, and, of course,, you though, that's a little different than folks just wanting to deal with on the other side of the spectrum. I'll second that motion and we'll just go from there. Judge, on the deal you went from the $50 per hour to $35 per hour, and that's for a men of two hours? In other words, $70 for two hours.
>> yes, sir.
>> okay.
>> I think it's fair and a $100 deposit. But I would keep a summary of the events and activities and at the end of the summer try to determine how it's used. And if we can distinguish between those who are having some kind of family deal as opposed to those charging admission fee or some sort of products and making money, what we may want to do is come up with a different scheme to deal with the different varieties of use. And I'm also mindful I don't think we charge 500 bucks for any park facility, do we?
>> I don't think so.
>> we don't have a facility like this. This is pretty unique.
>> but you don't want to --
>> we don't want to price ourselves --
>>
>> [inaudible].
>> what you will get though because of the pricing of the city facilities, you will get people to use this facility -- we priced it comparable to the city's like facilities, and what they will do when they see this one is so much less expensive, they will come over here to use it. You are going to encourage some use there. Or, you know, all sorts of stuff.
>> it's a nice facility. It's beautiful. State of the art. You can't -- but how long -- you say look at the pilot deal. How long do you think we need to look at this as far as the activity is concerned?
>> let us go through the season.
>> I'd go through the season, which is really to about early fall, right? Through September?
>> it gets a little colder and it doesn't have a cooling system. So when it gets too cold, people are probably going to not want to use it. Let us get through this season, summer and fall season and we can come back with a recommendation.
>> that's what I say.
>> I also heard a person say they are not catching the fish they ought to be catching.
>> they've got to come out on Thursday when they --
>> [laughter] ,.
>> that's another story.
>> that motion only covers the pavilion. We don't have any problem with the other recommendations. Any more discussion of that motion?
>> that's a good middle ground.
>> all in favor? Show Commissioners Davis, eckhardt, Gomez and yours truly voting in favor. Commissioner Daugherty voting against. That motion carries by a vote of 4-1. Move approval of all the other recommendations from staff. Discussion of that motion? All in favor?
>> that's the cap of $150 per day?
>> no.
>> if we apply the fee as recommended, what is the maximum that we can reach?
>> well, if an adult nonprofit tournament, their fee would be $15 an hour and they could play from 8:00 a.m. Till 10:00 p.m. So it would be 14 hours.
>> 70 bucks.
>> that would be $180.
>> what is it times five?
>> no, it would be more. 210.
>> 14 hours.
>> 14 hours times $15.
>> so their request was capped at 150? I don't know, I guess I'm amenable to leaving it at this so let's look at it and if we get a whole lot of them passing 150, maybe look at it then. What if we do that.
>> that's fine.
>> I hadn't thought of the 150 cap. But we have some groups coming out there starting as soon as they can and playing all day, right?
>> they try to get an early start so they don't have to pay for lights in the evening.
>> but now if it's not a tournament, which generally tournaments they are making money, as Commissioner Daugherty said. If it's not a tournament, it's $10 an hour. So really you would have a hard time hitting that cap in any event that was just league play or what have you.
>> but to play 15 hours, you've got some nighttime play.
>> right.
>> and we got utility costs that we incur. We kind of have to --
>> we charge for that.
>> they have lights.
>> $20 an hour.
>> so they can watch the cap by maybe not playing at night.
>> that's what I would do. And I do think though that if we can revisit it after this season.
>> okay.
>> with that, so we're looking at the recommendations. Discussion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Thank you all very much.
>> thank you all.
>> no problem, Commissioner. You and I make a good team whenever we team up.
>> yep, you are right.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:31 PM