Travis County Commissioners Court
April 8, 2008
Item 7
7. Consider and take appropriate action on the following: a, a plat for recording in precinct three: reserve at westhill phase i, a resubdivision of lot b2 (remainder), northwest hills ranch (5 total lots); b, reserve at westhill subdivision preliminary plan (13 total lots); and c, a plat for recording in precinct three: reserve at westhill phase ii final plat (13 total lots)
>> hi, anna bolin, Travis County t.n.r. This plat is a resubdivision -- well, there's several things, first there's a preliminary plan for 13 lots, then there's a resubdivision taking one lot to five lots. And then a final plat for phase 2 which is the whole 13 lots from the preliminary plan . There's three things, and a resubdivision taking one lot into five lots.
>> this is --
>>
>> [indiscernible]
>> Austin, we are in a shared office together. Neighbors to the project that are having some current concerns about -- about the project and the owner of the project. This has gone through the single office for you for the prelim and for the final plat. One of the concerns that has been raised is the tree ordinance. Apparently someone on the development side of this has -- has cut down some trees. This area -- this is in the two mile e.t.j. Of the city of Austin. And it is not subject to the protective tree ncere are not --t there are no deed
>> why don't we -- where should we start? S acres, that's small for the area. Our lots are both approximately three-quarters of an acre, that's the community standard in the area. These lots will all be about half the size of any other lot within, you know -- in this community for -- for miles. That's problem one, it doesn't belong. It's on a prominent corner, probably a car length between the five houses, doesn't fit the standard for the community in any way, shape or form. It will be -- the lady across the street has five acres all the way down behind her, four and five acre lots. It doesn't fit into the neighborhood in any way, shape or form. On a Monday morning, I drive by this property, nothing done for months and by 11:00 these guys had four, minimally, four live oaks that are at least 100 to 200 years old apiece limited and pushed off -- limbed and pushed over, a classic developer strategy, slash and burn, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission. There is a red tag on the property right now that does state that they were in violation of the tree ordinance. We show up this morning, they are not aware if there's a tree ordinance or not. The city lady ran back, no they are saying there isn't a tree ordinance. The inspector that red tagged the project certainly seemed to think that the tree ordinance was nechg. I have questions if that is actually proper or not. It is in the city's e.t.j., city of Austin is known having a tree ordinance. I don't know the answer to this. That at least needs more explanation. If in fact there is a tree ordinance I would think that these developers shouldn't in any way be allowed to benefit to profit from destroying four or five live oaks that have been there since before their grandfather's were born. Secondly this neighborhood, you just drive a block, this it's one of these oak line neighborhoods, every property on it has these enormous trees everywhere. These guys have come in and pushed it down. Bottom line is primarily we are opposed to this kind of density in this neighborhood. It doesn't belong up there. It's in violation of community standards and we question the developers tactics to come in, so quickly destroy these things. Never do any permits. I mean this is a houston developer. I mean, are they -- do they just not know they needed county permits. Of course they did. This is an experienced developer, they have worked in this area, houston area, they are not from mars they know they need permits before they start a project. They are in the city e.t.j., essentially a tree ordinance in effect. I think there's some debate if it is or not. Why did they come get permits. Well, this was their strategy. Going to come in here, knock these trees down, start with this level of density, hopefully already have enough work done, we will ask for forgiveness rather than permission, shove these down for these neighbors and community folks, I知 opposed to the replatting.
>> what's the they's position on the tree ordinance? The city's position?
>> in checking with our tree person, explain this particular lot in the two mile e.t.j., I was -- I was confirmed that the -- that the protected tree ordinance is not -- does not apply in the two mile e.t.j.
>> can we get your name, too, please.
>> sylvia lemom with the city of Austin watershed protection division.
>> how many trees does the developer plan to knock down.
>> the developer has already knocked down five. They have cleared it.
>> but what they are saying is to their knowledge there's nothing to keep the developer from doing that except asking themnoto. So if t four trees aralady do d --
>> knocked down the five trees to get to e density?
>> are you the developer?
>> yes, sir.
>> what's your name.
>> my ne chs hris black billions durn with waterloo -- black burn with waterloo development inc. I知 a 38 year resident of Austin, Texas. My company, my wife and I founded five years ago here in Austin. Never lived in houston, my father was a developer here in Austin for 40 plus years and my projects have all been in Austin, Texas. For our houston fans, though, houston is very guys. I have no problem. I guess a couple of things just -- just initially to address the trees. I知 a land developer, I do subdivisions, the streets, the utilities, subdivide the lots as much as today. I sell the lots to home builders. I do not do home building. It's a little too risky for me. In this case, I have a home builder on the project, mercedes homes, a very reputable builder here in Austin. About 45 days ago, they came to me, they had -- they had sold all of the proposed 17 lots we have. Requested that I sell them lots so that they could start. Said guys that's fine, but I don't know anything about building permits. You need to run those traps. As I understand it from them, and there's no one here to speak, they have five building permits for the five proposed lots from Travis County. And followed those rules and they built -- they started construction. The city of Austin had an environmental inspector that went out there. Noticed what was going on and put a stop to it. As we have now found out not only did the builder need permits from Travis County, they are also required to have building permits from the city of Austin. Somewhere there was a miscommunication and no one has denied that and when that was found out about 40 days ago, construction stopped on the lots immediately. To address the lot sizes, all of the lots in the proposed developments are a minimum of 10,000 square feet. There's 75 feet wide at a minimum. Which -- which meet -- actually exceeds the lot sizes of the -- of approximately 75% of the lots that surround our properties. There's a west hill estates subdivision, typical lot size is 8400 square feet. Great hills I forget the section on yaupon drive, lots are about 8400 square feet. The old bearing ton oak subdivision, lots from
>> [indiscernible] and up. The gentleman was correct. This was part of a plat of much larger lots, platted back in 1972, if I remember right. The lots ranged in size from an acre and up. A number of lots in the area have been resubdivided along with the one lot that we are proposing to do. On d.k. Ranch road several lots taken from acre down to five or six lots. We are simply following guidelines, adhering to the city requirements and the county requirements for lot sizing. There is a -- whether -- there was a blunder made with trees. Today I can't deny that. However, had there not be the error in the permitting process, plats had been done. Builder would have the right to go in and construct the houses and remove trees. I require in my deed restrictions filed of record on the subdivision we have already filed deed restrictions, the builder is required to plant three trees in the front yard of each house. We also in our platting process took the time on the 12 lot section that's before you to -- to reconfigure lots in order to protect a double 48-inch double trunked oak tree that's been out there for -- for god only knows how long. We have tried to take strides. We are removing minimal trees. On the subdivision.
>> five live oaks is a lot of live oaks, doesn't sound like removing minimal.
>> well, if --
>> they are cleared everything but the border of the property, leaving only scrub oaks close to the road. There's nothing left on the property.
>> there's several dozen trees of over -- over probably 12, 15 inches on the property. There were some live oaks, I don't know that there were five of them or three of them. There were some trees and absolutely and that's not denied -- I guess the only thing that I can say is -- you know, there was an error in the process. If -- it's an if. If the plat had been approved, if we had waited 30 days, if the builder had waited 30 days, if I hadn't -- if I had pushed them more to find out some answers, we had sat on the property for 30 more days, if we had caught the fact of the permitting issue, the plats have would have been approved and at that point in time the builder would have had the right to go out. Timing error I guess, we don't know what else to say.
>> he's saying that the size of these lots will exceed 75% of the others.
>> of the property that borders us, yes, sir.
>> that's not correct. That's not correct. I mean, there is a newer section on over the hill and down the way where that would be true. But where these lots are, that's not so. The property he refers to dk ranch road recently replatted was not one acre divided into five lots. It was three acres divided into five lots. Those lots are all approximately a half acre in size and they are now among the smallest lots in our part of the neighborhood. Any direction that you go, I -- I知 sitting here thinking, I mean, I do think that -- possibly if you go off in one direction, you will start to tend into smaller lots.
>> that's another neighborhood.
>> that's another neighborhood. It's not accessible from our neighborhood. You would have to drive all the way around to get to that. From our neighborhood, on three sides, in three directions, there's not -- four acres, I have done the research before when we dealt with the d.k. Ranch project. Those guys went in with half acre lots. These guys are going in with .3-acre lots. These houses are sitting on top of each other. Notwithstanding the fact that -- that this gentlemen has asserted that county permits were drawn. I have been told this morning county permits were drawn. He's asserted that the county permits were complied with. Number one provision of a county perm is that permit must -- that permit must be posted. There's a violation of the county permitting process if they have drawn permits. They didn't draw the permits. The permits were not posted they were in violation of that. If they had drawn county permits, they would have realized they needed to draw city permits. They would have interacted with the city. We could have then had this hearing while those collective 800 years of live oak growth were still present on the lot. We could have discussed if this was a proper platting at the point with the benefit of having the trees still in place rather than the lots cleared and nothing but a bunch of scrub -- I should have attention pictures. To show the truth of the situation, rather than having a bunch of scrubs surrounding just on the very edge, I mean in the right-of-way, that's all that's left.
>> what's the situation on the county permits?
>> I heard of this this morning and I did not have a chance to find out yet. That is the very next question.
>> what's the situation on the city permits?
>> I would have to check, also.
>> okay.
>> let's give you a chance to have your say, ma'am. Im a of the neighborhood and also a -- the neighborhood is a -- I am very happy and proud of my neighborhood, because I think it represents a great range of people. It not a rareified neighborhood, we have a great range of it necessitieles, politicalns I really hate to see the nature of our neighborh destroyed by mcmansion-y houses coming in and -- and it seems to just -- I think the thing that hurts me most is the death of the trees. The fact that these things can never be replaced.
>> I suppose if they have a require to plant some three ul acceptable and wehat will wait 100 years for them to grow in, we can see then how much room is left for building houses.
>> Commissioners if I may, last year I had to go through zoning on this project for the 12 lot plat due to its location. I had to get zoning from the city of Austin. I put the property under contract in January, over a year ago. Made my zoning application in April. In March of last year, I mailed out four letters to four homeowners association that this property lies within the boundaries of per the city of Austin. I heard back from one of those associations. Had a meeting with those people at laurel mountain elementary school down the street from our property. There were approximately 55 people there that showed up for that meeting. This was prior to my making a zoning application. Sat down with them. Went through what I was proposing for the subdivision. Had -- had some frank discussion with them and at the end of the day walked out of there with -- with unanimous consent for what we were planning to do. The other three associations never contacted me. I sent them follow-up letters after my zoning was approved in June I believe it was, the same associations, along with the one that I had met with. Never heard anything from anyone.
>> did you go to their homeowners association meeting or their neighborhood association meeting?
>> I went to the one that I was invited to.
>> you --
>> the others I have no idea when they met I知 sorry. I didn't know when they met. I was invited to one meeting and I went to it.
>> the notification to the -- to the neighbors that you said you sent it out to four alerting them that there was about to be a zoning change and of course it was pending before the city of Austin. Did -- are these persons here today, are they a part of those neighborhood associations that you sent the notice to?
>>
>> [indiscernible] received a notice from the city of Austin, are you within the --
>> because --
>> yes.
>> you --
>> you received the city of Austin piece of paper --
>> all right.
>> now, when you -- when you are saying --
>> the zoning I don't know -- when you went to the zoning meeting was that for the 12 lots or for these five.
>> the 12 lots -- the five lot does not require zoning from the city of Austin.
>> so when you say you had a meeting with people you were talking about a completely different matter. You weren't talking about subdividing the five.
>> the entire project.
>> you talked about subdividing the five lots. You knew that you were going to do at at that point and we are supposed to accept 55 people from our neighborhood told you yeah it will be just fine to put in .3-acre lots right there on the corner, nobody objected to in a? We are supposed to accept you at your word on that at this point?
>> no.
>> do you have any evidence to support that claim?
>> I can provide you with the -- with the e-mail contacts for the homeowners association I met with, you can confirm with them.
>> I find that -- incredible that anybody would go along with this.
>> what are we disod do today and -- what are we asked to do today and what county policies come into play.
>> well, we are asked to approve the plat, taking the one lot to five lots and a preliminary plan and the plat for the 13 lots. That's what we're asked to do today.
>> what county policies come into play?
>> this would be subject to title 30. It has gone through the review process there. One of the things that was reviewed, no matter where we are in the county as we look to see if lot sizes are consistent with -- with deed restrictions, that would have been reviewed, environmental people would have reviewed the -- the tree situation, had there been like for instance if there was a tree ordinance does this comply or not along with all of the other reviews. It also would have been reviewed for things related to streets and drainage.
>> do we need to take additional time to -- to confirm different reviews?
>> I know that the reviews were done for title 30 in the case manager -- and the case manager signed off, or else it would not have been put or recommended to be put on an agenda.
>> but --
>> hold it, judge. Notification. Under title 30 has kind of haunted us a little bit, I mean, not only here in this particular case but other cases that we have experienced in the past. It kind of -- it's kind of going to keep cropping up, it's going to -- apparently get larger and larger because it doesn't appear that -- sometimes appear to be a flaw in the notification process. This is basically what -- what we've hollered and screamed about in a lot of instances, even where we even get involved in situations whereby we -- we notify the residents we have to -- I take it on myself for example in my precinct if there's something going on, I have to notify them because I do not feel comfortable about the process of notification. Especially in the title 30. There are -- there appears to be -- to be a linkage problem as far as that going on. I知 hearing what the gentleman is saying, he said well heck I e-mailed all of the residents there in the jury and let them know about this process and again I would like to find out where all of these particular residents and neighborhood groups were they notified properly that -- that there, you know, there would be a situation under title 30 that they were notified? I guess that's the question, have everybody been notified properly under title 30.
>> normally you will see signs up at these rezoning things. We both separately, we don't live in the same household, walk by this property severatis a week. I never saw even a sign posted.
>> okay. But. We certainly didn't get any e-mails or letters.
>> my question, though, is under title 30 there is a process whereby the city of Austin should notify you. My question did the city of Austin -- do you have any record in the neighborhood associatio of anybody that's impacted within certain range, I guess th had to be a certain footage in that, also. But was there notification? I don't know if you all fell in that particular category as far as distances are concerned. But my question, though, is did you receive a notice from the city of Austin?
>> my household did not receive a notice. Is that okay.
>> nor did you?
>> no.
>> and we are going to continue to run -- judge I would like to maybe -- this is not in my precinct. But the notification issue is a big issue. We are trying to do a lot about it here from the perspective as far as what we can do from this court. It's a big concern and again another example that there appears to be a flaw in the notification process. Of what's on going on. That's how it appears because I don't have the facts before me at this point.
>> Commissioner, there are reasons why we have these hearings, you all are elected officials elected to serve your constituency. I have absolute respect for this woman here, I know she's got a set of regulations they are supposed to comply by, boxes they are supposed to check. But ultimately the boxes are not the regulating authority here. You people are. Just because all the boxes are checked that simply gets us to here to talk about it. For you guys then to decide is this -- does this fit the community standards, is this a project we want to move through, is there a better way to do this, is there a way this should be done, is this the right way, the wrong way? The boxes don't say it's approved. There's no purpose for you guys if the box that she gets checked off says okay they can move forward. This is you guy's decision if it's the right thing for this community or not. That's why we have this hearing. I encourage you to say no. It's not the right thing for this community.
>> let me ask this question. Because there are some things that fall through the cracks.
>> tell me your name again.
>> my name is craig deal.
>> okay. Craig, yes, these things do fall through the cracks, unfortunately. The problem that we have with notification and our executive manager told us this, we don't have a system set up like the city of Austin that can go out and tell you who has a neighborhood association, who is the person in charge of that, joe told us that we were having issues with this. It's going to take us a while to come up with that. That is something that we -- and the county --
>> [multiple voices]
>> I知 not faulting the county.
>> we're -- we're living with some of these issues. I don't think there's any question that -- that chris -- I mean, if you have been doing it this long, I mean, good god you know what it is pushing trees over that are big. I mean -- let's face it, there's some things that happen before you know it, then you create a range war that there's no way that you are going to get, you know, anything other than push back from this thing. You know, you -- you know better than to have done that I知 sure. Because now you are -- you are living the rath of really, you know, justifiable upsetting people. Now, there may not have been anything in our regs that would have kept us from doing a .2 or a .3, even though it might be inconsistent with what you all have had out there craig and sharon I mean that's something that we might not have been able to do anything about. But we certainly could have had a public hearing and we could have gotten neighbors to the table to say okay if you are going to do this, maybe you need to do four lots versus five or three lots versus five because you got to work around some big trees because big trees in this community mean a lot to most people. And my -- my real issue here is, I mean, because what's done is done, I mean, which is unfortunate.
>> I think by design on their part.
>> you don't know over five live oaks by account. That's part of the -- by accident. That was part of the plan.
>> they know the trees can't be put back. The idea is let's get rid of the trees. Let's ask for forgiveness rather than permission.
>> they don't have to ask for forgiveness. That's the point here. There is no tree ordinance that applies out there. That's what t.n.r. Is telling us that we didn't have the authority to prevent it from happening. But I agree that the circumstance here is -- is a -- is a notice issue and a lack of communication. Yeah, this is going to be -- it certainly has my hack kels up, despite the fact that what I知 hearing, I would like to take another week to understand more fully what I知 hearing and to know all of our options here, but if the threshold of this -- of this it appears that even though this is -- I mean, even though this is within the city's two mile e.t.j., we're seeing a neighborhood that is not -- what I知 hearing is that there's no -- there's no covenants to -- to prevent this kind of density or this sort of clear cutting. Is that --
>> that's my understanding.
>> that probably is -- you all don't have restrictions, do you all have it confined in a structured neighborhood association.
>> no. There's no level of organization to it. This is an old neighborhood. Folks just mind their own business. Go about their day.
>> this is the circumstance that we have seen quite often where an area that was once rural is now fairly urban and there are not the layers of -- of organization in place to prevent this kind of incompatible density or -- or tree cutting.
>> but there is an approved plat plan that's already been platted, it's been established and been accepted by the neighborhood. I think at the end of the day that's the purpose of these hearings is to make a decision and ultimately why do we have to have a meeting if they can just do whatever they want. You guys can say nope not right for the neighborhood. Vote no and --
>> well, that actually is not quite a fair statement --
>> [multiple voices]
>> of reality.
>> think that you could actually do that --
>> that's the reason why I would like to take -- I would like to take a week to figure out what our, you know -- what all the -- this layer of government's options are. And what the facts are. And then figure out what options not only this layer of government has, but also what options the developer and the community, if organized, have. A disorganized community has few options and an organized community has far more.
>> at the very least we need to slow down here and -- before it's approved.
>> can I speak briefly to the public notice. I知 working -- I know that the city of Austin is looking to revise their public notice process and policy and I知 working with them. I致e seen their draft. Based on some of the things that Commissioners court has approved in the past, I知 getting some information on some of the costs associated with some things that we might want them to -- to address some -- some things that we may want them to add to what they are proposing. I知 expecting that information at any time. I look forward to bringing that back here so that we can try to amend title 30 with regards to notice.
>> it's a big deal.
>> it is.
>> it really is. We are all confronted with that. Each Commissioner here has those type of situations. Of course the judge of course over the entire county so everything is under his purview. But each Commissioner here has a challenge, serious challenges when you find a flaw in notification. Fortunately we were able to do a little something about some of this and that was that we adopted a policy here not too long ago whereby we are able to notify residents within a thousand feet, in an unincorporated area of non-residential development and that was a spur from things that happened over in precinct 1. But again notification is a critical issue. We keep seeing it repeated over and over and over again. We just have to improve on it. At this level and hopefully at the other levels that we are involved in as far as title 30.
>> Commissioners, to allude to a point made earlier he regarding restrictions and kind of the -- the governance if you will of the plat. The five lot replat that we poped was of a single lot out of the northwest hills ranch subdivision. We went to the developer of that original subdivision per the deed restrictions for that subdivision to get approval for our proposed replat. We didn't shotgun out there, if you will. We did try to take steps beyond meeting with just hoa's and contacting the original developer. Also to -- to the notification, the city's requirement is 300 feet from the property, so that may have been why, sir, you were missed. Ms. Drinkwine you are shown on the list of who got the city notice. You said that you didn't receive it. But your name is on here. So maybe there was -- I知 not sure what happened there. But you should have seen it, but, sir, I didn't see your name on here. If you said a couple hundred yard then that's probably what happened there. Obviously I would love to be approved today, but I certainly have no problem sitting down with the folks and discussing it. And taking a week's time as ms. Eckhardt suggested and just visit through it.
>> do you think, craig, that you guys can -- can, I mean, obviously there needs to be a sit-down and say okay let us weigh in on this deal. At the end of the day, we don't have the authority to go you know what, that sounds good, that's not something that has to happen because you have got a set of rules. When you comply with them, then we are relegated to say yeah they do meet the rules because legally if you don't do that, you can go over here to the courthouse and somebody can come over here and say no. If somebody complied with the rules, then you have to okay that plat. Now, generally the way we do it down here is if you -- if you got rules and you can't comply with them, you still would like for people to have say so within an area to say okay let us help you at least get us to the state where we are not just wanting to be an obstacle at every juncture and let us sit down and come to you because, you know -- I mean, somehow we all have to get over the fact that you have four big trees that are now gone and that's going to take a lot. Some people may not be able to get over that. But developers generally find that in this community it's a lot better to bring it to the table and say okay, you know, we're sorry we did that, but let's try to move forward and what can we do in order to move this thing forward. I mean it may take more than a week, I mean, but I do think you need to sit down, you all need to get all of the people to the table that really want to have a say-so in this, then our staff is always available to call and say okay, technically, you know, what has to happen here, you know, these things sneak up on us, I mean,, you know, we think we see it which is the reason why it kind of sneaked up on me this morning. When you read staff approval that says this was complied with, this was complied with, this was done then joe our executive manager says there are going to be people here to speak about some things that happened, that's what happens to us. You can see the look on our faces not that we don't care we're like oh, okay which is the reason why we want you to go back and -- and, you know, shoot, chris, you do need to sit down with all of these folks and say how can we -- let's see what we can do to get you to a spot where we can move forward and we just don't have range wars.
>> because we are in the -- I need more time to understand the facts on the ground as well as the facts in the book. But also just as our overarching concern here, you are building a neighborhood. You are not just building a building and walking out.
>> right.
>> and that's what we are asking. If you are really after building a neighborhood, let's talk to the neighbors.
>> I want to work with them and let's pull it together and if we can get everybody back together in a week, well, fine, if it takes two weeks, then let's take whatever it takes, I mean, in order to come back down here with us so that we feel like we've gotten somewhere. Who makes the final decision on the trees?
>> like what trees will be removed in the future?
>> typically from my standpoint, that's for my builder to determine. You know, I -- as I mentioned earlier, I looked at, you know, we tried to lay out the subdivision and take into account some trees, there's I知 sure they have seen back in the back of the subdivision behind where the stables were, there's a -- there's an enormous oak tree that when I met with the association last year and some of the residents in the area that was the primary concern. We worked to protect that. At the end of the day, I as a developer put in the streets and utilities. Sell the lots to home builder. Their responsibility is to work with whatever governing body regarding permits and tree mitigation if any and those sorts of things.
>> can I ask which neighborhood association you met with are there minutes for that meeting?
>> I would certainly assume there's minutes. It was on -- let me get the list here. The ones that I contacted that did not -- and did not hear from were the old spicewood springs neighborhood association, the north oaks neighborhood association, it was -- it was great hills west hill estates, kasita drive, yaupon, the exact name of the -- of it --
>> why don't you work with them and pull this together.
>> I can e-mail it to you. Contact mitchell the president of it who I dealt with. I can't remember the exact name now.
>> get that information. If you all want to step outside, get anna to bring this back.
>> before we leave, though, I may have missed -- misquoted something. I mentioned a policy about -- about notifying the county in an -- unincorporated areas, notifying residents about non-residential development as far as notification process. However, what we actually end up doing it was shop dated too with a Travis County code that was amended. So -- so if anybody wants -- wants to follow this, well, they can -- they can look at that shop dated too as amended as far as the code is concerned that they will see that there is language there that actually refers to notification of a thousand feet. So -- so I said policy earlier so I had to come back and correct myself.
>> okay. As far as -- photographs --
>> [indiscernible] e-mail them to you if you would like I mean --
>> we will have it back on.
>> okay.
>> thank you all.
>> thank you.
>> that's the 22nd.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, April 9, 2008 8:51 PM