Travis County Commissioners Court
December 4, 2007
Item 23
Number 23. Is consider and take appropriate action on request for assistance from the city of manor for the planning for future growth along the capital metro rail corridor. What i put backup on this item was a letter that was sent to commissioner davis by the mayor of the city and a couple of e-mails regarding this item and i later got a copy of that letter, i guess i was sent a copy at the same time by the city manager.
>> judge, i had had an opportunity to talk to mr. Tait. Phil, tait,who is the city manager of manor. Of course, i told him that if he wanted to come down on this particular item, and thank you for putting this on the agenda to actually discuss and lay out in more detail what this particular proposal is for as and the amount of money associated with such a study. What do we get for the dollar amount that he is, that the city of manor is requesting. I also talked with legal to see if the court wanted, the court's desire was to enter into such a cost sharing between manor and the county, what instrument could we use. Ed an opportunity to discuss. I did get an opportunity to lay things out and also asked him what would the city of manor be willing to put on the table as far as cost sharing in this particular study to give more detail to the treasurer, to development, basically from the city of austin area all the way to elgin but also by pass and going to manor. I don't want to go into too much until he has an opportunity to lay out to the court exactly what this really entailsokay.
>> I知 phil tait, the city manager of manor. We've met a number of times with commissioner davis earlier this year regarding what is going out in the eastern part of the county as far as future rail expansion, commuter rail expansion in that particular area. It really center to a great degree around the city of elgin in bastrop county, they are making a push to bring the rail out to their city and have over the last few months funded a study and done a lot of work towards studying for a transportation oriented district in their city. After they did the research and laid out a concept plan, their city council voted to acquire about 80 acres of land on the southwest edge of their city for a transportation oriented district much like leander is planning to have open next year on the red line that hopefully will be open by this time next year. What they plan in that is retail rail stops, commercial, various types of commercial ventures, and also some housing developments, single family residences. And it has pushed manor to begin the process of looking in our area as to what we need to be doing in the eastern part of travis county so that by default all the benefits of the rail, if indeed it goes to elgin, doesn't default over into bastrop county and where we in eastern travis county can get our economic benefits out of this thing. One of the problems we have come up with in looking at this, to do any kind of study, is that in eastern travis county, the rail does not go like immediately through manor or through one section where we can do a study that takes into consideration all the infrastructure that is going to be needed. The best example is out to the east in one particular area where we have a development going. The county has two roads on either side of that development. The rail sits on the next level, which is capital metro, and across the road from it is the city of austin's e t j. You go up a hundred years and instead of the stithaving the etj it's still manor and the county in the middle but the county is in control of that land. It's hard for us to have a consensus plan that really doesn't, that will really accomplish a whole lot. We can go out and study and stick it in manor but most of the rail going in that generally area is only partly in manor. It skirts along the eastern edge of what will eventually be the city limits and the northern and southern edge of what will be the city limits, and on the northern edge of austin and travis county. So we thought it would be best if we came not only brought in some research to put a study together, but to include everybody that is going to be out there, than particular the county, so that we have a better picture of how we can inner measure --mesh our infrastructure, how we can provide the road waits that you are taking care of at this stage of the game, provide our transportation plan and work on a regional plan instead of a little city plan. Basically the city, although it's growing, land-wise it will not be the type of city you see in le aineder or cedar park. As it stands tew today, it is one of eight cities that are a member of metro. The big dog is austin. The other piece is, others are logo vista, jones town, point venture, sana lana, and each is represent bid one member on the metro board with the retirement of fred harlis from the logo visit at a commissioner we were able to put on the capital metro board, a mu council member, jamie allen, and she is now representing the six small cities in travis county on the capital metro board. Each of these cities--
>> what is her name?
>> jamie allen.
>> thank you.
>> each of these cities, of course, austin and leander, give up a portion on the option of their sales tax revenue, one percent, to capital metro for operations. We have contributed as a city, as near as i can figure, somewhere around two and a half million. Many of these other little towns have contributed not quite as much, but proportionally as much to them as we have. We think that the growth in the eastern part of travis county has been stymied by one of our most beloved topics, than is the toll road discussions. I won't go into that, if that is all right with y'all. But--
>> thank you very much. You moved up a notch in our thinking.
>> many of businesses and the commercial growth, that is really austin's preferred area of growth out to the east, has been stymied because people are not willing to take a chance on putting businesses along the tor door until they know for sure what is going to happen with that corridor, not just to 130 but well to 130 and eastward, probably two to three miles towards ergin. We would, we have done an extensive amount of coordinating with other cities in the area such as pflugerville, regional plans for sewer and water. We feel like out in that area all the community are too small and have not got the resources to be able to do it entirely on their own. So pflugerville is actually moving across the northern half of manor and has moved into the school district. Manor has moved into elgin's school district. We think we need do this particularly on rail because it's going to be, we think, one of the real options for development in the eastern travis county.
>> here here.
>> one of the biggest projects we have out in eastern travis county that we think will happen is what is called town east. It's a combination of a commercial development but also, and this has been in the paper but there's been several variations or several other developments claiming the same thing, it's going to have six movie production studios in there that will concentrate primarily on animation and those types of productions. Alongside that will be an industrial area which will be geared towards tying to the movie studio functions. Then there will be a significant educational area which will front old highway 20, or in that location it's really litig road. All of this will be in the manor or is in the etj. Across the record that the point it switches from austin's etj to 's control. But the educational part, we are envisioning that we will have a major significant campus of a higher educational institution. Are going to have what is called the stellar center in that particular deal. It will have the challenger center, which is the foundation by the families of the space shuttle challenger that blew up, their funding an educational wing out in that area. We will have another group called i create, which is an arts and technology center for historically disadvantaged populations, and we have a major of course, manor independent school district will be involved and we have a major texas nonprofit group that will oversee the entire deal. The big item or one of the most important i think is the east side story, which the county has been involved in for a number of years, to help kids stay in school. So all these things will be located on this campus. Than campus will be on the railroad track. But this campus does, not just the campus but the movie theater does one thing that few others do, it provides workers' comping out of austin to the east county area to go to work instead of everybody coming from the east travis county down into central austin to go to work. So we have movement of people in both directions, or an option for movement of people in both directions in that particular area. We have set aside $25,000 to help fund this study. Capital metro and us have been in discussion, and they had previously approved, as you are aware, we have the bct grants, and they had approved us using $25,000 of that money towards this. We're asking the county to participate further with us for another 25,000 so that we will have the capability of funding a preliminary or study on this particular area. I know you won't be, may not be ready today to commit to that, but we want to get the ball rolling not just on funding but on the whole planning process for the eastern section of the county. The day is coming when it's going to be booming as much as the western half has for the last 20 years. We think that this study should look at whether we should do a tod , whether jointly the county and the city should have a tod area or whether it's better just to let that area develop by developers and not have to provide the infrastructure. But if we are going to have a tod area, we need to work together who going to provide what services and how we are going to provide the infrastructure out through that, throughout that portion of the county on a regional basis.
>> hey, how long ago, you can say probably, in other words, i think commissioner eckhardt probably would like at least a week to look at some things, and i told her we probably won't want to take action today anyway. But i basically wanted you to have an opportunity to present this. Because when you look at capital metro itself, you know, the rail just doesn't stop at the city of austin boundary. It proceeds to the city.
>> that is one of the reasons we are asking for participation.
>> right.
>> manor cannot possibly look at the whole rail line from the east edge of austin to the county line. We need help to do that. But only a 1.5 area is in the city and most of it in an area that we will not be putting tod simply because there's not enough land. We need to look at rail. In answer to your question, a preliminary round would take eight or nine months to get done and then we know what to do for the process, to come back a second time to know what kind of work and studies we actually need in relation to any infrastructure land use, zoning, of course you all have no zoning powers.
>> not yet.
>> we are working on it.
>> we've been in similar situations with annexation. All those things. The initial round would take about three to four months. We would also have to find a way in which, in how we are going to go about hiring the consultants who do this particular work. We have been working with a group, and we are willing to do a contract with them. But i think probably the county will want to put rfqs out.
>> the reason i ask the question if you had four parties involve in participating financially in this particular study, instead of the three that are mentioned here, two in the backup and then you just mentioned that y'all would basically be willing to put $25,000 in, i was hoping that maybe the city of austin would also be able to become a partner in this since it's going to have an impact within their particular jurisdiction.
>> i would hope they would too. We have not discussed. We have had no discussions with the city of austin.
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>> we would only have one opportunity.
>> mr. Geiselman, are you here to give advice or only to listen?
>> we currently do not have $25,000 authorized for the study so we'll need a source of funding. I would suggest that it go through some kind of r.f.q. Process for selection of consultant, and probably what we -- i would certainly like to see a scope of services, you know what you are getting for your money, and the long-term cost. You understand that $75,000 is just the first three-month study. The bigger question is on how much is this going to cost second phase, third phase. You get the total picture before you take the first step.
>> let me make sure i got this right because there are numbers that aren't adding up. Is it $50,000 that you all are trying to put together?
>> we're really putting 75,000 together. We'll fund 25, we'll use 25 from the grant process, 25 from the county.
>> because the mayor's letter is --
>> i think at the time it was written we were trying to --
>> they hadn't come up with that other $25,000.
>> but you all would put 25 yourselves. What do you think elgin would put?
>> elgin is not going to put any. They've done their own study. This is just for eastern travis county. Elgin is not a member of capital metro at this stage.
>> i realize that. The rail line that cap metro owns is between llano and giddings.
>> that's right.
>> it will go to the elgin, but you are right. Pflugerville was part of the -- at one time and they got out. Your private people have got to get to the table. If you talk about who is going to have the opportunities to hit a long ball here, i mean, hey, you know what, i hope these t.o.d.s work, but somebody is going to be real wrong in the t.o.d.s, and I知 happy to walk to the microphone if they've got people hanging out the windows of the rail line, let me get at the microphone first. My initial response to this would be i'd like to see the leander to the convention center line up and going. We're talking about a year. I mean i would think that your council would like to say let's -- before we do something, let's see how something works. I mean leander has got to have -- you would figure more ridership just the fact there's so many more folks that potentially can use that line. And i'd be a lot more inclined to listen to a deal like this if that one is working. Quite frankly, okay, let's see how it works. I mean I知 only one. I mean you probably know me just a little bit and know this is kind of heavy lifting for me, but i don't think that it's bad to look and think about it. I mean we do have to get our arms around a lot of mobility issues and maybe it can work, but, boy, i sure want to see everybody that has the ability to get to the table and to benefit from this, and to people who potentially have the biggest benefit are private developers and i think there are a lot of private developers along that line that would say we need to get some skin in the game.
>> actually, they have been working to see degree with capital metro. They haven't -- one has offered to chip in and the other two the deals are not quite that far enough along to commit to it. But they are being impacted by the rail already. Txdot is trying to reroute 973 and they've come to a problem trying to reroute that traffic across the railroad tracks so we're already being hit with the factors. We're also being asked to close rail crossings within the city by developers outside the city that are in the city of austin or outside our e.t.j. So that they can have an extra rail in their area. We've been kind of reluctant -- we've been more than kind of reluctant, we've absolutely turned that down. But we are already being pushed on the rail issue this early in the game.
>> joe, did you say you don't have the money to authorize for this purpose or you don't have the money?
>> i don't have it authorized in my budget so i do not have the money in my budget.
>> for this purpose or you don't have the money, period? Mr. Tate, I知 trying to corner him for you.
>> the money that i've been authorized are for other purposes. I can certainly reorder my priorities to make money available, but i don't have any surplus money.
>> during one week if we want to do this, we'll find a source.
>> let me also comment on the nature of the district. It's a value capture mechanism. Basically what they are doing is buying land and as it develops recapture some of the value within the district. There are land use changes moving along 290, and so if for no other reason to understand the dynamics of the market, the city, when they talked when planning the 130 corridor, they were talking about development nodes along 130 and in eastern travis county along the 130 corridor. I would think that at the same time we talk about the transit districts, we would also want to be coordinating with division of what city of austin and other entities are thinking about intense development. Because more likely than not that's where the value will be captured if it is to be captured. So this seems to be different movements going in different directions and i think there ought to be some -- i think the regional approach is clearly warranted here because where you go in one direction to create nodes maybe not in the same direction another entity is going to create transit district so you've got to be lined up.
>> this is one reason i think that was brought up the point with expand on the players in this project. Include the city of austin. In my opinion, they need to be at the able. They know exactly what they have envisioned and what they would like to go forward with, but mr. Tate and them don't -- they don't know that, but they need to be included and i think commissioner eckhardt brought up some other suggestions. Everyone needs to know exactly what each party is doing so we'll get to the end of the road at the same time. If you are going to do a study -- but he's asking travis county. I can't speak for the other entities, but i can say something about travis county. So i guess, phil, are you going to end up going to the other -- like commissioner eckhardt brought up a good point about the city of austin. Are you going to also venture into those other avenues of involvement as we go through this process?
>> yeah, in fact we've talked to really everybody with the exception of the city of austin, we've probably talked -- we've talked to pflugerville briefly, we've talked to all the other cities around there. We have not talked to webberville as a village at this stage of the game, but we do need to involve them because long term they will be coming north to this rail just as much as pflugerville will be coming south to the rail.
>> exactly.
>> and we haven't talked to them. But we've had contacts with them and know them well enough we can bring them into it easily. Austin we'll have to do some homework to bring them into the fold.
>> what's your time frame on this?
>> we're not really pressed for time. We just don't want to get behind the 8 ball and find out we haven't done anything when the time does come. I think if we get to moving in the next couple of months and get it finished by late spring, early summer, we will be prepared then when -- and then they come on line with leander towards the end of the year, we can really make the decision at that stage do we need to go whole hog and spend the money and look at a very detailed plan out there or do we need to back off and let things mature a little more.
>> it will take some time to develop the scope of services, right? If we decide to proceed.
>> as i understand it, lockwood, andrews and newman has been promoting the study so this is not new stuff. I知 sure there's a scope of service laying on someone's desk right now and it wouldn't take too long to get one.
>> we'll have this back on next week. Is the morning better or afternoon?
>> afternoon is better for me.
>> we appreciate your patience this afternoon. We'll plan to call it up around 1:45.
>> that sounds good.
>> and hopefully come a lot closer to hitting it than we did today.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, December 5, 2007, 18:30 AM