Travis County Commissioners Court
December 4, 2007
Item 4
4. Consider and take appropriate action on a day counseling center on property owned by the ebenezer baptist church for the community supervision and corrections department.g,.
>> good morning, judge biscoe, commissioners. I知 here to give you or answer any questions that you may have about our communication with the gain association since the last hearing. We have been in communication with them, provided them with additional fact sheets answering their questions. We also met with them on saturday, december the 1st. Yesterday afternoon i provided you with the recap of that meeting, the information that i provided, what some of the concerns of the neighborhood association were and -- and also provided you with some information that -- that we had provided the association in the packet that we also provided you in hard copy this morning. Hard copy of that e-mail materials that i sent yesterday afternoon. There are some a.p.d. Statistics that are arrest statistics at the specific location. The pre-- the three private counseling businesses that provide services to probationers, they do not indicate a problem. We also provided gain with a comprehensive analysis of the research by christian anderson, he is here if you need to ask him some questions. Looking at crime hot spots and so forth. That is also in your packet. Day treatment or counseling centers are not identified in the research as being crime hot spots, nor -- and in fact the research suggests that they actually reduce crime because of their presence. And finally, we -- we provided you with a time line of the various communications that we have had with -- with all players in this. As we have gone along when we requested data, when we got it back, et cetera. So I知 here to answer your questions about the -- about the meeting that we did have with gain. And ready to proceed with that.
>> questions? I did see an e-mail -- in e-mails the question regarding the -- a possible public hearing requirement.
>> okay.
>> i know the state was supposed to --
>> okay. What i provided you with, i believe that you have that packet that looks like this? Does everyone have that? It's a letter from ms. White. The division director, the director of tdcjc jag let me read that e-mail to you. It says doctor nagy, government code section 59.001 and 59.010 pertaining to public meetings for community corrections facilities applies to residential facilities and does not apply to outpatient treatment programs. The definition of a community corrections facility specifically includes restitution centers, court residential treatment facilities, substance abuse treatment facilities, custody facilities or boot camp, facilities for -- with -- for offenders with mental impairments and intermediate sanction facilities. All of those mention specific types of residential facilities. All of those listed are specific types of residential facilities and offer 24 hour supervision and care. The division does not have the expectation that outpatient programs are required to have public hearings. In addition i have the original public -- excuse me, i have the original legal opinion that was sent out to all cscd directors. 1997 when this -- when this was put into the code from t.o.d. Germstead the general council for cjad, that consistently refers to these facilities as residential facilities and then i also contacted mr. Germstood and got a legal opinion from him yesterday at about 2:00 when reiterates that again. I also brought copies of the standards which if you look at the third tab, there's an arrow and the standards specifically under the heading section 163.39 says residential services and that is where they talk about the need for a public hearing i also proded you with the standards related to substance abuse treatment and there is no mention of a public hearing in that section of the standards. And i also provided you with a copy of what's called the texas intermediate sanctions bench manual, the manual provided for judges describing the various intermediate sanction programs state-wide. I provided you when the chapter which describes community corrections facilities, it lists all of those facilities under the chapter of residential, community residential community sentencing alternatives and it provides a grid on page 45, i didn't provide this fairly long document, it's the second page from the back which describes each of those kinds of facilities, says eligible for it, talks about a period of confinement which is obvious it's a residential if you are confined there. And then cites the statutory authority. Specifically cites 509.001. The section that discusses the need for a public hearing. So we have received information from the source, which oversees us and also provides us with our standards stating specifically that we do not need to have a public hearing. So ivided all of that. To you.
>> okay. Can you describe for us again the kinds of services that we provide -- and when.
>> okay. This will only be individual and group counseling sessions. It does not require -- it's -- somebody to stay overnight and there are absolutely no other services that will be provided there except individual counseling and group sessions. The hours of operation, we will have groups between 11:30 and 8:30 in the evening. The building will be open, it's a -- you know, it's offices for staff to be there in the morning so they will have staff meetings, they have the opportunity to document and do their paperwork in the mornings when they are not in groups.
>> weekend?
>> and on saturday.
>> questions?
>> what time on saturday?
>> roughly 8:00 to 5:00.
>> can you tell us again the -- the people who will be there? That -- what their offenses were?
>> the offices can be either felonies or misdemeanors who will be excluded from there is anyone that ever has a history for a sex offense will never go there. Individuals that are supervised in our mental health unit, those are individuals that are priority population, those will not receive services there. We have another location. And also 3 g offenses which are offices against persons -- offenses against persons will not be there. Other people will be eligible. However one of the things that i have emphasized throughout is that this is an early intervention program. So individuals that have serious substance abuse issues that need to be addressed will be in smart, we have a residential facility and we also have got substantially more money for 90 day residential programs through contract vendors throughout the state. So we have increased resources, we are also going to have 72 additional beds at smart. So we should have absolutely no problem placing people and even if we didn't, they would simply be put on a waiting list for smart or the residential and would not come to the counseling center.
>> and then the way that we look at this treatment, the need for treatment, is a little bit, if i can just draw an analogy, it's just like after care for people who have been -- trying to recover from a disease, cancer or you know something elsewhere they need to be, they need to go for after care, somewhere in the community in which they live. And i think somewhere along the line i think judges and other criminal justice professionals have said that substance abuse and alcohol abuse is -- is a disease. And it needs to be treated and so my -- I知 just trying to follow through on your thinking and everybody's thinking that the treatment piece is very crucial for people who have already kind of gone through the criminal justice system, they are coming back into the community and they need the after care. Otherwise, they are going to -- going to -- to go through that process again because their disease has not been treated.
>> right, yes, you are correct.
>> trying to understand how this -- how this is intended to work and -- and so -- i think the -- all of the professionals, in the criminal justice system, have really paid attention to -- to how we deal with people who have offended and how it's necessary to treat. If we don't treat, then they are not going to get well. Just like anybody else. Cancer, if they don't keep going to -- to the outpatient and the after care, they will again it will come back up. And -- and possibly not ever recover from it again. Just trying to understand that process and how it pertains or is very similar to --
>> it is. Yeah. Both after care and the counseling center offer counseling. That's what it is. It's counseling. Individual and group. And ident t would get in after care.
>> just like any other disease, though, some -- some after care works and some does not. But i think that we -- we all have a responsibility to keep a real close eye on everybody as we try to help them get the treatment that they need and i don't know that -- that we have always had access to treatment dollars and we've all been asking for treatment dollars. And -- and here we are with some treatment dollars, but, you know, i think --
>> yes. Travis county has historically had less treatment available than any other metro area in the state and -- and this -- there was $10 million that could be distributed state-wide. We are extremely fortunate to get $650,000 to provide this treatment.
>> thank you.
>> so the big fight is not whether we do this, the big fight really is where.
>> where.
>> and the location.
>> yes.
>> the location where we are. Anything else from -- from cscd staff?
>> do you have any questions? From -- from dr. Carston anderson about crime hot spots and whether or not counseling centers contribute to crime?
>> no. That was very good information.
>> if he could wait just a few more minutes, just in case we appreciate that. Okay?
>> and these are residents who are --
>> [indiscernible]
>> yes, sir.
>> okay.
>> members of the court, this is mike
>> [indiscernible] the president of the guadalupe area for an improved neighborhood association and I知 buck mckinney, i was here before you a few weeks ago. Thank you for taking some additional time to allow the neighborhood to gain some additional information on this and come back to provide you with our input on the proposed treatment center. As doctor nagy pointed out, we did meet on saturday just this last saturday, december 1st. Before that we were in pretty regular communications trading information. Back and forth. We met with dr. Nagy and another gentleman from her department for about an hour and a half on saturday. There were -- it was well attended meeting. I would say probably about 25 people from the neighborhood there. A lot of questions were asked. Some of the questions were answered. A lot weren't. Those that were answered some of them the neighborhood just found that the answers were not satisfactory. After the meeting we did hold a vote, the members of the board of the neighborhood association. The board voted unanimously while we enthusiastically support the establishment of the center like this, believe that it's important, for travis county to do something of that nature, we don't believe that it's appropriate to place a center like that within a residential neighborhood and next door to a daycare center. I知 not sure if the members of the court are aware of this. But there's a daycare center immediately adjacent to the proposed center. We just don't think that's appropriate to place it there. We think that the department can do a better job of finding a location that won't impact residents, toddler children, and -- in the ways in which -- in which facilities such as this may. Because of that, we are respectfully requesting that the commissioners vote no on this agenda item. We hope that -- that our input is important to you and would ask that you think about your own neighborhoods and your own children as we have been forced to do through this process. And hopefully respect the reasonable and legitimate concerns that we have as a neighborhood. About a possible impact on the neighborhood through increased crime. Increased activity and increased traffic, concerns britishs such as loitering. Just a lot of issues that we think could negatively impact a neighborhood which frankly right now is already under tremendous pressure being located where it is. We've got other challenges that we've been facing over the last couple of years, particularly of late quite a bit of increased crime in the neighborhood. I know that dr. Nagy has a report that she's presented to you that purports to show that treatment centers don't increase crime. If you look at the two examples cited, neither one of those were a drug treatment center like this, neither one of them were located in a residential area. Moreover, if you talk to beat cops, people that actually work our neighborhood, they will tell you what the problems are. And one of the problems we are facing right now is the establishment of a social services center downtown which again we support. It's the arch center for the homeless and that certainly is a worthwhile thing for the city to do. But -- but the beat cops will tell you that our increased crime are a direct result of the establishment of that social services center. We've also had increased activity and traffic in the neighborhood due to the redevelopment over there. Which is ongoing. The city has been very heavily involved in. And we believe from looking at -- we have looked at studies as well. Not studies that have been presented to you by dr. Nagy, one in particular that was prepared by a company called the jfa institute, which is a consultant that the department has been using for the last two years to overhaul their system. And they put out a report just this month, that suggests that recidivism is not reduced by substance abuse day treatment centers. In fact there are some studies out there that show that crime can actually increase or recidivism, return to jail can actually increase as a result of these centers. That comes from their own consultant. I would respectfully submit that the jury is out on this. We simply don't know. You are going to find reports on one side that say it reduces recidivism. You are going to find reports that say that it doesn't. We don't really want to be the petri dish for that experiment right now faced with all of the other challenges that we have at this point. Again we're asking the commissioners to please respect the legitimate concerns of the neighborhood and hear our concerns that we really think that the travis county can do a better job of locating a facility like this than putting it within a residential area next door to a daycare center. On the other hand, i really don't know how much power we have as a neighborhood, it's really in your hands today. If you are inclined to vote in favor of placing this in our neighborhood, we would ask that at least you require the department to satisfy the statutory notice requirements. I know that dr. Nagy has given you some notices that the statutory requirements don't apply. It's hard to believe that you wouldn't require somebody placing criminals within a neighborhood to go through at least the same notice requirements that a liquor store goes through. And in any event, i have got the statute right here, if i may approach, i would like to give everybody a copy of it. You can see very clearly from the plane language of this statute itself, i don't disagree with dr. Nagy that residential treatment centers are subject to public notice requirements and public meetings. But substance abuse treatment centers also are by the plain language of the statute. And there's a little bit of smoke and mirrors going on here i think by citing all of this information that says residential treatment centers must go through that process. We agree. But substance abuse treatment centers must as well. I would like to give everybody a copy. A copy for dr. Nagy, too, it would be great to get a copy of the stuff that you presented. You have the statute?
>> yes.
>> okay.
>> if you would give them to commissioner gomez she will pass them down.
>> [multiple voices]
>> legal attorney need to have a copy of this, also, right here to my left.
>> and to the clerk.
>> and to the clerk.
>> those are all of the copies that i brought. Six copies.
>> if the court will look, you'll see community corrections facilities is defined here. And it includes restitution centers, court residential treatment facility, substance abuse treatment facility,
>> [indiscernible] facility or boot camp, facilities for those with mental impairments and intermediate sanction facilities. It's clear that substance abuse treatment facilities are a subset of community corrections facilities. Not excluded. These aren't residential substance abuse, they are substance abuse treatment facilities. Residential treatment facilities are specifically addressed above that as a separate subset. Then if you go to the next statute on public meetings, it's clear that all community corrections facilities must go through this public meeting process. That hasn't been done. The department admits it hasn't done it. It claims that it's not required to. I ask legal counsel to review this. I think the plain language of the statute clearly shows that it is required to go through that. This may be a moot point, we hope that it's a moot point. We hope the commissioners will simply use common sense here and decide that while the treatment facility is certainly worthwhile endeavor, it's not a good idea to place it in a residential area next door to a daycare center. We also think that it's important during a meeting this last weekend, we asked specifically and perhaps you should ask as well, how many other locations were even considered? Before deciding that this was the perfect location for a treatment facility and we were told by mr. Al curry, the facilities management -- mr. Roger el khoury, the facilities management representative, and i quote, maybe probably about five were considered. They couldn't give us any locations on that. But if this is due diligence, it doesn't seem very sincere. We respectfully submit that travis county should do a bit better job of looking for a location before it decides to foist this experiment on our neighborhood. If i may just points out one other thing. Because of the failure to point out statutory notice requirements, failure to notify anybody. The parents of the daycare center don't know this is going on except for what information has trickled down from us. Members of the robertson hill association, one of which is here today, cisco fwoamz had no idea it was going -- gomez, had no idea it was going on. They said they notified the neighborhood association here's a resident that didn't know. The person they said they contacted doesn't live in robertson hill, he also lives on river view drive and is not the president of that association. Most of the people at this so-called community support meeting that they had were really constituents associated with the church rather than legitimate neighborhood associations. The hundreds of residents of the robertson hill apartments directly across the street weren't notified. The
>> [indiscernible] along 11th street not notified. To the extent of people having any information it was filtered down to them, there's no formal notice to them. We think going through this sort of a process might do a better job of that. Certainly if you are not inclined to follow our suggestion of voting no, we would think that perhaps you would want to solicit some input from those very affected people as well. I will respectfully turn it over and answer any questions that you may have at this point.
>> judge biscoe, thank you commissioners, just to reiterate what buck said. Yes, we do oppose the proposed site for the reasons stated earlier. We do think that dr. Nagy, craig and mr. Roger el khoury for being in attendance and at least attempting to answer most of our questions, after the meeting on saturday we still were not satisfied that the presentations were really going to sway us one way or the other. I cannot support this personally because i live there. I have lived there all my life. We feel that this is an intrusion into the neighborhood by outside elements which will affect us by traffic, they take traffic both off 11th, through waller, san marcos, streets immediately adjacent to that area. Basically safety. There's an issue of safety that a lot of the other residents are concerned about. Like i said we are under siege you might say. We are so close to downtown that we do feel pressure from pedestrian traffic on the weekends and evenings. Additional property crimes have happened. If you would refer to the gain letter that i dropped off at your offices i think that specifies what we feel about the issue. As buck said, we ask for your consideration. Thank you.
>> what are -- i guess they would be the northwestern boundary of the guadalupe neighborhood association.
>> the 1009 corner of san marcos and east 11 he to navasota and east seventh on southeast corner, east 11th and navasota on the northeast corner, i-35 and 7th street.
>> northwest side it would be this corner.
>> yes, sir.
>> of the church site.
>> that's correct.
>> okay. Questions?
>> i have some clarifying comments.
>> can you hold on to those?
>> sure.
>> mr. Marshal?
>> ladies and gentlemen of the travis county commissioners court, I知 general marshal. I知 a member of the east austin economic development board of directors. And i want to share with you just a few concerns that we have related to leasing the marvin c. Griffin building for the day counseling program. The building is located one mile from here, 1.0 miles from here on 11th street, the corner of san marcos and 11th. Sufficient parking is available for the program and it's on a bus route. And in august of this year van johnson, executive director of our corporation began negotiating with leaders with the day counseling program about leasing the second floor of this building. To ensure protocol, the meeting open to the public was scheduled for september 27th. Neighborhood associations were invited, 11th street business owners, austin revitalization authority, eadc board, commissioner davis' office had a representative there. Clay sharke was there, dr. Nagy, staff, directors of the program were there. And after presentation by the directors, the floor was open for concerns and questions. Mark rodgers of the guadalupe neighborhood association expressed at least three concerns. The first concern is the safety of the children attending ebeneezer child development center. The children who are transported to and from the center by responsible adults. They don't walk to the center. Concern was expressed for residents of the ebeneezer senior village, these were surprising to us because it questioned our judgment of endorsing a program which would place our projects and hence our people in harm's way. His third concern was the follow-up to a question that i raised. Actual number of persons who would occupy the building at a given time. The answer provided that day and reiterated here two weeks ago in this court was about 70. Van johnson informed you two weeks ago that the guadalupe neighborhood association did not support ebeneezer child development center nor the ebeneezer senior village and he said at that time nor the robertson hill apartments and condos that were mentioned a few minutes ago. So we were surprised to find that odd that our own programs will be used against us in leasing the griffin office building. The austin police department, neighborhood housing, released facilities from us for 10 years. Mostly their owe oat lease space was on the second floor. That's the same place space that we are offering to the daycare program. We know that funds are available for the program and they have been received. The building is available. So we ask that you let us move forward. Without further delay. A question was raised two weeks ago about neighborhoods and with the counseling programs were housed regarding impact to the program. In response to this question, we would ask if there's any documentation of counsellees, calls and problems in the neighborhoods in which they received counseling. Talking about indesirable elements, what have you, metropolitan ame also in the guadalupe neighborhood has offered -- has provided meals for the homeless, for several years. Without objection. So we ask for your support of leasing, allowing us to lease to the day counseling program. We thank you very much.
>> is the first floor currently leased.
>> for the most part, yes, entirely. The texas music museum,
>> [indiscernible] is here, he is one of the attempts of the first floor, he spoke at that meeting, also.
>> texas music museum.
>> right.
>> okay.
>> questions, judge?
>> yes.
>> how in the world do you win these deals? I am very uncomfortable taking people that have to get treatment that we all -- no one questions whether or not -- we can find reports that show treatment does work, treatment doesn't work. It's all over the board, whether you are talking to ph.d.'s, whether you are talking to people that live with family members with issues like this. We do know that there's good that comes of it. On the other hand i am very uncomfortable putting something in a neighborhood that for
>> [indiscernible] sake makes you wonder whether or not that's something that needs to be some of these things, yes there are child care, senior citizens and they probably, you know, can be protected somewhat. But if you got a neighborhood that says this is just not something that we want, we're at an impasse. You have one corporation that it's a money thing. We want to rent space because space turns into dollars and that is -- that is part of why -- part of why that kind of a program was put in place, which is a very advantageous and a very admirable thing for a community to have. Because that's really what it is. I mean it's, you know, we have space, we need to generate income out of that space, people paying for space yields dollars. You have a neighborhood over here saying can't you do something, find some other place. The answer to that is probably yes, where are we as a court? We are up against the wall because now i understand that we are losing $11,000 a week for the treatment. So you can see where it puts us. We're trying to be -- to be responsive to a neighborhood, we are trying to be responsive to a program that we -- i think most of us feel like, yes, you do get more good than harm out of this. So -- so i don't know i guess after five years that i should become somewhat anestisized with having to work with these things. It's gut wrenching. Whatever decision is going to upset somebody. I don't think there's anybody up here that wants to upset anybody. I wish we would have spent a lot more time instead of just starting in september to do this and so what I知 probably going to get to is there a period of time, because how long is the lease supposed to be for if we -- if we enter into this agreement? How long is the lease? Roger? Dr. Nagy, who can tell us.
>> the lease can be up to two years, up to five years, we will this to determine, go to current condition.
>> it's one of those kind of solomon deals. Split the baby, i mean,, you know, everybody has got to have some -- some skin of the game. It may be one of those things that -- before we just turn all of this money back over to the state. Which you all know we are going to be very uncomfortable doing that to work with the neighborhood to say okay is there a -- is there a trial period that you can have, quite frankly it needs to be monitored so that you don't have the negative impacts that -- that rightfully so that -- that the people that live over there say well this really could affect us negatively. If it doesn't, well then I知 sure that the neighborhood says okay well that's just as good as the daycare and the senior citizen, you know, living accommodations and things like this because everybody would like to live in harmony and not be harmed, if it works then great, if it doesn't then you have to -- you need to have the ability to move out. Eventually it's going to be an easier decision for me to say you got to try to find a deal here to see if it can work but if it doesn't work them you got to move people out. This stage i think that we have to move forward otherwise, we might as well just tell the state, you know what we have got something that we just can't figure out here. I think that's too bad for us to do that. So i would hope that we can get people to say all right you know we're not comfortable, but we know that quite frankly at this stage it's not like you can go out and find another spot. So i -- i just want you to know what I知 sitting here thinking because this is really very uncomfortable to -- to have to make a vote where somebody is going to lose everything and somebody is going to win everything.
>> the question i asked last week was what if we put in place a one year lease and we monitor it and six months from now we look at the situation. We will need three to six months to find another location. And if six months from now things are not working as well as we hoped, then we make the call and try to find another one and give ourselves three to six months to do that. Now, the -- the other thing is clearly you never know what may develop in the future. In county government, some of the issues we should be able to address appropriately, some we may not. But i mean no matter where we try to put a program like this, the nearest neighbors will object. I mean, so what we try to do is be as good of neighbors as possible. There is a substantial amount of money to operate this facility, all that we have to do is come up with the space. Part of that is locating it.
>> right.
>> so my recommendation would be that we try to put in -- put in place a short-term lease. I think that will kind of require that we focus the -- on the situation that we monitor it as best we can, and i have no problem with meeting with the neighborhood representatives monthly or -- or every other month and staff and looking at the situation and if we need to make changes, basically we make 'em. And if -- if the -- if parents of kids and -- in the daycare need to be notified i certainly have no problem with that. But these are preschool, right? And parents are dropping them off, they are running to the entrance and going inside and i know there's an outside play area, but it's fenced.
>> uh-huh.
>> so i mean I知 as concerned about that myself -- i do think there are steps that we need to take to make sure that the appropriate precautions, protections, are in place and i mean i feel comfortable doing that. I also feel comfortable committing to monitor the situation and if we are producing unexpected adverse results then basically, you know, we make the call to move it somewhere else and give ourselves a little time to do that.
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>> ... That's another mart matter. But if they are coming down, say, i-35 to get there, then we can ask that they not go through neighborhoods.
>> yes, it's only one tenth of a mile from i-35 so i think that's quite reasonable.
>> you never get 100% compliance, but i would be real surprised if we can't get people to understand and agree, we just stress the importance of it. If after taking all these steps we still are not able to produce the right kind of project, then we make that call and act accordingly.
>> okay. The only thing to keep in mind with the year lease, it takes some time to get a program fully operational and it takes about a year to councilmember late statistics to measure outcomes for any kind of treatment program, a year at minimum.
>> i have in mind impact on the neighborhood, though, not the success of the program. Success in terms of not adverse impact in the neighborhood. I understand it's difficult to determine whether in fact we're having an impact to participants that we desire, but in terms of impact on the neighborhood, we can monitor that and as best we can make the call and work with residents. With a committee of the neighborhood association.
>> excuse me, commissioner, let me just express my thought. The other thing is -- i believe can i speak from personal experience. A little girl that i was over there at the ebenezer day care and i picked her up occasionally, i had to go inside and sign for her. I had to let them know who i was and i had to prepare ahead of time that i would be picking her up from time to time. There were always -- they were always inside the building and when they are outside playing it's fenced in and the teacher, instructors, it was always out there by the door watching them. And so i think is a good thing anyway because that's really slowing down to the speed of life so we can spend time with children and make sure we know where they are at all times. And i thought that was a very good thing that the day care center did and i think we need to continue doing that. Let's pay real close attention to the children and elderly and every other human being we come into contact with instead of letting things take care of themselves and making assumptions about that. So i can speak from personal experience on how they handle people going in and out of that day care center.
>> commissioner davis.
>> thank you, judge. This particular situation is within the confines of precinct 1, the precinct that i represent. Number 1, i'd like to see what the legal opinion is on this notification process. I would like to have an interpretation of that notice that was handed to us by the neighborhood association to see if we have public notice requirements that we must adhere to by law. Right now I知 not clear. So i need an opinion from the county attorney. Number 2 is that, it was stated earlier, and i try to take sufficient notes as people discuss and say things. It was discussed that the person that attended the meeting back in september when they first had the initiation of the meeting, a lot of these folks that have been represented are members of he ebenezer baptist church. I don't know if that's the case or not, but it was alleged and brought up, which if they are speaking on behalf of being members of ebenezer baptist church or neighbors of the neighborhood, i don't really know, but that was brought up, another concern. There is a lot of fear out there in my precinct, and i guess probably throughout the county. Lord knows i support the service 100%, i do. There's a strong need for it. I don't want anyone to misunderstand me or misquote me when i say i support this service 100%. I知 all behind it. But there are some fear that's so tremendous and so large until it's going to take all of us to calm these fears as far as drugs and prostitution that's taking place in so many parts of our county. I attended and i attend several neighborhood meetings, several outings and i hear what the persons are saying. It's less than 72 hours that i talked to an individual that lives in precinct 129, that's an area right close to the
>> [inaudible], springdale road, oak lawn, bandera, all these streets in the springdale boundary going south of martin luther king. But in that area, all time of the day and night, persons dealing drugs, persons dealing in prostitution. This person told me that he pulled in his driveway one night and he was -- he couldn't even get in his door being propositioned by this person to do illegal activities. That's scary. That's very scary. So there is a fear. On rundberg lane and ih-35 right now, deals going down every day. Prostitution. There is a fear in that neighborhood. They are under siege. Chestnut neighborhood association, around 12th, east 12th, boundary with chestnut to the west, martin luther king to the north, 12th street to the south, that area under siege. What i hear from them, please, commissioner, is there anything you can do to help us deal with this prostitution and drugs that are everywhere all time of the day and night. I hear those cries from my community. Collectively, what can government do about it? The arresting officers, the enforcement of the law, it's within the city limits. I can't tell a.p.d. Where to go and what to do. I can complain as i have in the past about these areas, and i constantly do it. But the fear of these actual things and the actual behavior that takes place after persons engage in substance abuse, chemical substance abuse is just overwhelming. The community is under siege and there appears to not be any going backwards to normalcy where you could sleep on the front porch at night and not worry about it. Those days are gone. Those are the kind of days that i remember, and i grew up in east austin, i was born in east austin, probably die there too, but i know what I知 talking about. A lot of them you will hear, you are my friends and i've known you for long time, and collectively, as i stated earlier, this is a lot bigger than what's being presented here today. We have a very serious problem and collectively i hope we can maybe turn this thing around because this is not tolerated in other areas of this community. It's not. Let's face it. Let's look at it for what it is, it's not even tolerated. Folks don't want to deal wit and they aren't going to deal with it, but we are trying to do the best we can as far as what we've got to deal with. Location is very critical. I understand there were other locations that were brought up during the testimony. Four other alternative locations. I don't even know what they are. But that's what i heard that was presented to us today, alternative locations. So i'd like to hear from our county attorney to see, number 1, if we are -- the interpretation of the law, does it meet the public notice requirements, and if it does, then I知 quite sure the court will probably vote. But until i hear from the county attorney on this, I知 going to reserve my vote until after i get a determination. But i just want to let you know that there are some legitimate fears out there and, again, the neighborhood associations are screaming what are you going to do about us and our problem dealing with drugs and prostitution that are rampant, rampant throughout our community. You can't even get into your house. Where else in austin is that demonstrated? Tell me, somebody. Other than on the east side. Tell me. I want somebody to give me answer to that. Because it's not tolerated anywhere else. They do things about it. But what we have to do is collectively as a county representative, the city of austin, we have to deal with this issue. You can't sweep it under the rug with programs. No, that's not the answer. But we're going to have to deal with it and we're going to have to face it for what it is. Let's bring some kind of quality of life, but yet we still help people, but we need to return to some quality of life so you can sleep on the front porch if you like and not worry about it. So that's my two cents worth on this and i'd like to hear a legal opinion from the county attorney.
>> legal isn't until this afternoon. This matter was presented to them this morning, jim says, and he needs over lunch to prepare. And i suggest that we take any other comments that we have this morning, that when we go into executive session we take this item in. My recommendation -- or my guess would be that we're looking at 3:15, 3:30 this afternoon if the items on the agenda move as they -- as i believe they should. Of course, we never know how many residents will come down on an item, what they will say or how long they will say, how long it will take to say it so I知 sort of guessing, but i think we ought to hear from other residents who have come down on this item, then go to other business, and when we go into executive session this afternoon to give jim an opportunity -- jim is the attorney, by the way, for the county, give him an opportunity to do additional legal research to give us a legal opinion, his legal opinion this afternoon in executive session. And I知 thinking we'll go into executive session probably at about 2:30 and we need probably 45 minutes to an hour to discuss executive session items before we come back. So why don't we -- for those who have come down on this item, why don't we give them an opportunity to make comments today.
>> can i say one last thing? Mr. Mckinney says these legal opinions are from our office, they are not, they are from the texas community justice division. Their legal counsel. That division is our regulatory agency that provides us with instructions on how to proceed in manners. And the standards that are provided are there standards, they are not ours. They audit us to be sure we comply with the standards. So i just want it to be clear that this is the regulatory agency that is charged by the legislature to put procedures and standards in place regarding these matters. And so the e-mail that i have from ms. White, she is the director of that agency, and the standards are published, they are reviewed by their legal counsel, they are posted in the texas register, they are open for public comment, and then finally they are voted on and adopted by the texas board of criminal justice, but also voted on and commented on by the judicial advisory council which provides judicial input into the standards before they are adopted. So i wanted to be clear on that. Also, the opinion from todd germstad was the opinion that was provided to tdc's jay seejad in 1997 scwenlt this part of the code being written and adopted by the legislature. I just wanted it to be clear it is not from our office.
>> okay. Thank you. Any other comments?
>> we never got a chance to see whatever it was she was presenting to the court. Once again, we just didn't get the information. The point is the legislature drafts laws and I知 confident the county attorney is going to be able to dernl what the law states on its face.
>> unfortunately when you get done, we need your seat. Who else is here on this item?
>> van johnson here.
>> so others will have an opportunity to come forth. Let's go on back around this way and as others come up, we will give them an opportunity. Have you finished?
>> yes, i have, but van johnson is here.
>> yes, sir. And standing --.
>>
>> [inaudible].
>> i would just -- to clarify a few things, number 1, the facility that's in question is located in a commercial car door. It's -- corridor. It's in a commercial corridor. It's not sitting in a residential area. It's on east 11th street, the commercial corridor. And when we built the building, we had it zoned and we included uses such as this. And it's not the first time we've used it. For that purpose. When the police department was there for 10 years we had people who weren't as nice as the people that are coming in there. I mean, the police department was picking up criminals at night and that's where they were taking them and booking them when they were doing their sweeps. Okay? The other thing i wanted to mention and we're fortunate, the name of the building is the marvin c. Griffin building. It was named that for a specific reason, and dr. Griffin is with us sitting there. I think i mentioned this before, that building was set up by dr. Griffin to do -- provide these very same services. Yes, we're concerned about money, but we've also turned down tenants to make sure that the building is compatible with the use that it was designed to do to provide services to the community. That's the very reason it was set up. And when dr. Griffin initially put together the plan for that whole community, it's church property, he made sure that he wanted these services. They are not new to ebenezer. So you are getting more than renting a building. You are getting a partner. This is nothing new to ebenezer. We've worked with these people under dr. Griffin's leadership for many, many years. Ebenezer has been serving in that area for 125 years. The other thing is, when you look at the list of people who signed in that september 20th meeting, we had the chairperson from the senior housing people come over and speak in favor of this, of our senior housing. And the whole thing where you talk about the day care center. As commissioner gomez pointed out, that's almost frivolous i had to laugh at it. I mean certainly we looked at all of these issues. No way does this program impact that day care center or anything else. We've had worse in the community. But the most important thing, we've made a mountain out of a mole hill. And i think -- for me, this is like deja vu where guadalupe has stalled something and stalled something and stalled something until it finally dies. It's not our first experience. It's been diagnose on for 20 years. I hope they don't prevail in this one. So i just wanted to make those points. These are people that live in our neighborhoods anyhow. I mean when are we going to get our heads out of the sand and accommodate our next-door neighbor, our grandchildren, our children? What, are we going to keep running from them? And these aren't serious felons who have murdered, who have raped, et cetera, this is our next-door neighbor. And i don't want to take too much time.
>> any questions? Thank you, mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
>> thanks for your time. My name is francisco. I live two blocks from the texas music museum. I can see it outside my window.
>> state your full name.
>> francisco gamez.
>> thank you.
>> i live in what might be called the anderson hill or robertson hill neighborhood right next to the loop. We have neighborhood meetings every month. I've been attended them for quite some time and last -- we just got word of this probably two weeks ago pr the guadalupe neighborhood. So we're quite surprised. We're having an emergency meeting this sunday. I知 quite sure if we had more time, i could get a petition from the neighborhood of people who live there, blocks, two blocks, three blocks from this place, you know, to say we don't want this. We didn't hear about this. You know, we just don't know. It's just shocking. We are a one-car family and zoe and i walk to the children's museum probably two or three times a week and walk by there just about every other day or so. Sometimes we go there because some of my friends don't want to come to the east side because they are still a little afraid of it so we go to the children's museum. I think this is going to make her friends for scared like you have a drug treatment center two blocks from your house, let's not go to your house to do the play date. I知 going to be really nervous about walking through there or if we walk to sixth street to go to breakfast tacos. We've had homeless people knock on our doors in the middle of the night asking for stuff, money, whatever, i've had to call the cops once a week on the homeless people sleeping in our park. So the 80 to 100 people they told us were going to be here daily, I知 a little nervous about that. You know, it gets dark sometimes at 6:00. And, you know, we do our nightly walks with some of the other kids as part of our routine. It's just something we have to be really concerned about. They are saying, you know, he said there weren't in the felons, but according to the sheet there are felons. And when we asked on saturday at the meeting why you picked this location, why is it so perfect, she said well, they have 70 parking spaces. We walked through the parking spaces yesterday, and the texas music museum i think we counted about 18 spaces that were right next to the texas music museum. One of them is handicapped, and then above they might have had like nine more that said staff. The rest of them were up against the ebenezer church and then another like mason lodge parking, I知 guessing those are the 70 they are talking about. Some of those spaces, if you haven't seen, i encourage you to go there any time during the day, you will see that other church's parking -- of the church's parking spaces, about 80% of them were being used. Maybe they were day care workers, i don't know. But so when they say that these people are going to come here and park in these 70 spaces, it's not clear where they are going to be parking. I would imagine if i was going there, i would probably park in the street if it was already full. The other thing is some of these spaces, zoe and have applied to go to the ebenezer day care center, although i don't think we'll be going there after this especially if this goes through, but some of the parking spaces back right into the church. Drive down and you will see those parking places they are encouraging these drug convicted felons to park there, you can see into the day care, see right into them and, you know, on another note about the safety, I知 sure it's very safe on most days, but when we went to put our name on the list, we walked in, there was nobody at the front desk. We waited about four minutes, somebody cleaning the floors said you need something? Yeah, we were trying to get our name on the list. That's how we did. The other thing is, because we walk by there all the time, i have seen some of the children in the summertime playing out in the -- one day one of the teachers had them in the parking lot area. I知 sure they are not going to do this once the drug treatment program goes in, but i've seen them out there. We're happy as a neighborhood to go out and get a petition and i'll give you the neighborhood's opinion, which I知 sure it's going to be let's not have this. And we're also happy to stand in front of the day care and pass out flyers and notify the parents and say hey, what's your opinion. We can send them to an e-mail or to have them contact you to see how they feel about it. When we asked at the meeting did the parents of day care get notified, they said no. Well, she said we just had to get permission from the minister and that's all we needed. We don't have to do anything else. Like great, I知 sure there's going to be a lot of pissed off parents that, hey, thanks for encouraging convicted felons to park here and hang out right next to a few feet from the day care. Anyway, that's it. I知 just -- I知 sorry I知 a little nervous and actually I知 really scared about this whole thing going through.
>> being thank you.
>> i have a question that i don't know if you can answer, but perhaps it's just a question that should be out there. I知 concerned about the link we're making between those with drug addiction and an implied link between drug addiction and pedophilia. I知 unaware of a link. And i think that that has been implied a noferts today and it makes -- number of times today and it makes me very concerned because i have known many people in my life with serious drug addiction and it has been my personal experience as just a human being and also as a misdemeanor prosecutor that drug addiction is an equal opportunity affliction. And i -- i would assume, and little an assumption and I知 sure there are people in this room who have expertise on this topic, i would assume it being an equal opportunity affliction that you would be unlikely to see a higher prevalence of pedophilia as in a random sample of the population.
>> okay, well, i just
>> [inaudible] that these people that are going to this drug treatment aren't the nice west lake people, no offense.
>> they go and get -- they get treatment from places that they can pay for it and that's the thing. There is drug treatment throughout travis county. The difference, of course, is those who are wealthy and have drug abuse problems and addiction go and pay for a phycho therapist.
>> well, we just -- we've been yelled at from homeless people in the street on our way to the children's museum --
>> will homeless people be --
>> let him finish.
>> and i just don't -- i would prefer this notify us, let us know what's going on, let us have a chance to say no as a neighborhood. Is okay. Thank you.
>> thank you. Any other comments?
>> no.
>> right here, please. Then let's work to the right.
>> good morning, I知 the executive director of a non-partisan, non-profit organization by the name of the texas criminal justice coalition ands a resident in east austin. The reason why I知 here is because the texas criminal justice coalition which is a wide range coalition of drug court judges, probation departments, law enforcement, people from the affected communities, substance abuse providers, religious groups, actually came together to ask the very same questions that commissioner davis was saying, how are we going to increase the safety in our neighborhoods. How are we going to stop crime. How are we going to ensure that there is some type of -- some type of stability within our neighborhoods and more peace and more -- just being able to live happily in our neighborhoods. And we came together to come up with strategies along with some very well-known researchers like dr. Tony fabello, dr. Tim, author of the j.s.a. Report, to figure out what were going to be some of the strategies. During this session they came up with three basic strategies. And -- and it was basically substance abuse outpatient treatment. It was community -- it was diversion, moneys for diversion so people will not continue to go back over and over again into the cycle of prison. And it was reentry, and it was basically providing individuals the tools necessary to live responsible lives so they can start making decisions, smart decisions on a dayly basis so that they can actually be responsible. I mean it really came down to that. And so out of that came out a total of 34 start on crime pieces of legislation sponsored by the corrections chair, which is chairman representative jerry madden from plano, and with this coalition with senator john whitmire, a democrat from houston, texas. Along with that came the appropriations subcommittee to talk about how is this money going to be allocated, who is it going to serve, how are these programs going to work. Within that subcommittee on appropriations, they decided to allocate a total of $150 million for things that were going to increase public safety, things that were going to address issues that commissioner davis has brought forth. And so the reason why we're here is because we are monitoring the implementation of these strategies. We are making sure that counties take advantage of the funds that are allocated that, quite frankly, could be lost at any time. Because every single department in probation has to return the money every single year. I mean they have to. And travis county, and I知 really proud to say this about travis county, travis county has been looked upon as a model, not just for the state, not just for the other 231 probation departments in the state, but nationwide. And so i know that this is a very difficult decision because you want to do what is right for everybody in the community, but this is a win-win situation. And if this vote happens and if you are in favor of this, this is really going to be a win-win situation, and i encourage all of you to take a look at what has been happening nationally, what's been happening statewide and making sure that you implement strategies that are going to serve everybody's needs. Now, i heard a lot of comments in terms of felons. Well, i just want to say there's over 2,000 felons in the state of texas. Graffiti -- i mean every single session there is an enhancement that create a misdemeanor, then the felony. So it's only a matter of time before an action can literally become a felony in the state of texas. We would never be advocating for sexual related offenses, anything that actually likes hurt people physically. What we're advocating for is people to obtain the much needed treatment that will reduce them ever committing some ciem by six to seven times and that's the truth. It's common sense. If you give somebody the positive thinking tools necessary to make smart decisions for their families, they are going to make smart decisions for their families. If you don't provide that treatment, if you don't serve the community where they are from, if you don't start thinking about being start on crime, they are going to continue to keep the cycle and that's what we're here to stop. So you have our recent testimony and also a policy prime their we submitted with a lot of recommendations and my card so in case you have any questions. I hope you move fast on this because we're about to lose this money and we worked hard to make sure counties have this option.
>> in other words, what i was talking about basically is collectively doing stuff together. I don't think one entity, one example, travis county has mhmr as a broker, and we fund, we significantly fund, over $600,000 for an example that we put into mhmr, who actually go out and get non-profit organizations to deal with a lot of chemical dependency, substance abuse type situations. So travis county has stepped up to the plate financially. However, i mention some stuff that's within the boundaries of city of austin, with the incident just recently that -- when i mention this young man being approached for illegal activity in his own driveway. And it's several occurrence all over the incorporated area of the city of austin. I知 talking about collectively to preclude the increase in this process into how quality of life restored back to neighborhoods as experienced in other parts of travis county and austin, the challenges there for up to collectively do this. I was questioning to see if you had submitted any of this stuff to city of austin because a lot of this deals with the boundaries of city of austin.
>> that's the only way we're going to solve the problem is collective, collectively solving the problem. And the county -- the county advocates, the representatives of the counties, i don't want to call them -- you know, lobbyists, they are just providing technical assistance and information. The county associations have to make some very interesting decisions. There was one piece of legislation that was basically going to hurt counties if they continue to take not in my backyard attitude. And it was a piece of legislation that moved out of a committee like that quickly. Even all of the counties representatives were really concerned about this piece of legislation by representative riddle. And we went all the way to the floor. And the county -- and that was something that we actually thought about perhaps in helping pass because we thought, well, everybody's going to have a not in my backyard mentality, let's take them the option to do that, but then i thought that's not the smart way tosmght you have to be able to address the needs of each of the area's communities. We talked to the counties, her office talked to to county --
>> my question was to the city of austin.
>> the city of austin --
>> my question was directed to you as far as this information being handed and given to the city of austin. Since a lot of this is occurring in neighborhoods that the city of austin has jurisdiction over.
>> the austin office, the houston, dallas, everybody was talked to. I mean everybody was -- in order for the legislature to pass so many bills, the first thing every single state rep does is talks to their city officials, their commissioners, they talk to as many people as they can because this is a very touchy issue. Even representative, for example, eddie rodriguez, who was instrumental in passing hb-530, the drug courts, but they are a wonderful amazing program. This program is going to allow the d.w.i. Section of the drug court to be able to be implemented which is now a requirement of the counties, have you to establish a drug court based on that.
>> thank you, ma'am. Any more questions? This is a good publication.
>> dove-tailing on what you just said, it should be noted that we have drug courts in residential areas.
>> thank you.
>> which we have not -- in those locations, we have not received the kind of pushback.
>> keep up the good work.
>> thank you.
>> yes, sir.
>> well, I知 dr. Clay sharky. I started the first course on alcoholism over at university of texas at austin in 1981 and i've been teaching and working with all the alcohol and drug agencies pretty much since that time. And i teach the course on treatment of chemical dependence at u.t. In our social work school, we now have one of the -- i guess a pretty kind of nationally prominent educational program, research, et cetera, in terms of working with alcohol and drugs. So it's kind of one hat that I知 wearing.
>> do you still have these interns over there, dr. Sharky?
>> we have interns all over, you know, all over austin and, you know, I知 on the board of salvation army's rehabilitation center and we've got programs -- I知 on the board of austin recovery. We've got programs like, of course, work with the drug court, work with this wonderful program under probation, the smart program. These folks have done just a great job and we have a lot of interns through that program. I've also worked with some of the programs like ministry of challenge and victory ministries and some of our faith-based programs and such as i see the opportunity and the need for a pretty broad range of options for people because people have different aspects that are, you know, significant in terms of alcohol and drugs. Basically i'd say a person who has been a participant in east austin. I was actually vice president of the board of the carver museum, black history and culture during the time we developed the plan for the beautiful new cultural center that we now have. Actually we were disappointed because the first time it went up for a vote, the art museum passed, but the carver didn't pass and the mexican-american center didn't pass and it took about five more years. I've also worked with victory grill, which is the last of the basically black blues clubs, almost one of the few in texas in trying to preserve some of this. And I知 also the board president of the texas music museum, which is basically located on the bottom floor of the building we're talking about. And we've been -- so that's a different perspective. And we've been in there almost 12 years, i think. Pretty much close to since the building began so i've seen a lot of things. In some ways I知 kind of disappointed with some of the things i've heard because i've heard some things that i think are kind of discouraging in terms of, i don't know, community is trying to work towards dealing with problems and even a little annoyed with some things i've heard related to alcohol and drugs and, you know, people with alcohol and drug problems. I guess what i want to say, first of all, you know, you are going to make a decision on this. I almost see this a little bit more as ebenezer basically making an offer to have a program in their facility a lot of people were turned down. I see the need to have some of these programs in the central city, not to push them way out to the edge of towb, kind of like not in my neighborhood approach. I think it's interesting and we say criminals, but golly, i have to tell you, we also had people through the probation department as doing community service with our texas music museum. We had many, many, many folks and we never had a problem with anybody. We had a few folks they wouldn't show up. They stopped and got in trouble with their probation, but -- and by the way, we had things like radio personalities, famous moo musicians, high-tech computer people. You know, see, the thing is even though some of the folks that are at higher incomes that they can afford treatment, but if they get involved in probation, they still have to do the probation. So we have -- i mean there's been judges and sheriffs and legislators and this is not, you know, it's not just, you know, the people off the -- you know, homeless, mentally ill off the street or something like this. This is a community kind of thing. So number 1, in terms of who we're talking about serving is a real cross-section of people. And the -- and as i said, i kind of see -- golly, i feel a little disappointed about some of the neighborhood's comments because, like, i feel -- and, you know, east austin really deserves a lot of gratitude to ebenezer and to reverend griffin in terms of improving that neighborhood. I could tell you 10, 20 years ago and a lot of wisdom, you know, in terms of supporting programs and building things like a lot of what ebenezer has done has done the things to make the neighborhood more the way i've heard some of the people talk about the way they wanted it to be. Also, where the building is is really -- as somebody mentioned, it's more like a commercial corridor. When you come down, you are going to see ben's barbecue and a house that's going to be renovated. The city just gave a million and a half dollars. It's going to be a black arts center. Continue past that and there's several new large buildings that have been built by the rehabilitation. There's a bank. There's a lot of offices and such. Keep going up the street, there's some new restaurants. Miss bee's is very popular now. Anyway, what I知 saying is it's not like it's right in the middle of a budge of people's houses. It kind of behind the building is the church and the day care center and the senior center and cross the street the church owns a number of those buildings too and they've had a place for -- a clothing place where people could give and get clothes. There's even -- i think the church even has one facility there they are renting to this steel drum group that they are trying to get started, things like that. So -- and from the point of view of the texas music museum, we don't -- especially since we've had a lot of folks doing community service and such, we don't really see this as a problem. We did talk about the fact that we have almost all of our major programs on sundays, and we do that because we're a real family oriented -- texas music museum, we don't serve chos alcohol and our programs are music and such and we do that on sundays. So again, we're happy to know that that -- they wouldn't be praibility on sunday so it's not going to conflict. And parking shouldn't also be a problem in terms of services at the church on sunday so so that makes sense. And so i -- mostly again i say, gee, we do need these programs. I think it's great to be able to have -- i think it's great to have organizations that are willing, you know, to have the programs, you know, and more in central city, you know, that are available to people. And i don't know, i think, you know, they could probably give you some statistics in terms of the characteristics of some of the folks that we're talking about in terms of accessing these programs. And i do know the idea that treatment does work. And i don't know too many studies that kind of con, kind of against. Most of the studies I知 familiar with, it doesn't work for everybody, you know, it doesn't work all the time, but certainly it works. Niaa and nida and such. 10, 12 years ago i was here because the commissioners court honored me for my work because i was kind of voluntarily doing the evaluation projects for treatment alternative to prison, treatment alternative to incarceration, which is one of the big programs and we studied that for several years and found that that -- that was an effective program and it basically is a way that people are screened and, you know, and placed across a variety of different alcohol and drug treatment programs. So anyway, i guess I知 just going to say, give you my comments if you have any questions.
>> thank you, doctor. Appreciate it. Mr. Deforest.
>> yes, sir.
>> I知 deacon dietz dofor and i work with criminal justice ministries tore the desees of austin. Thank you for the opportunity to talk about this. We are on sixth and chicon, residents of east austin and usually well into the early evening. And we are in -- I知 the criminal justice guy down there and i see most of the ex-offenders who come in through the area. Of course, the drug and alcohol business is what's driving the whole criminal justice system. And the people who would come to this facility are not the people who are going to give you problems. It's the people who are not coming to this facility who are going to give you problems. And everybody is a little bit fearful. And everybody gets fearful because they don't really know who they are dealing with. We've got homeless, probationers, parolees, pedophiles, we've got this, we've got. That but these people are probationers. Probation is very effective if you get them in there, that's fine, but they are wandering through the area now not in treatment. So if you want them to improve, you are going to have to put something down there they can get into and get into treatment. It's just that simple.
>> yes, sir? We will need those two chairs you and the doctor are occupying. I think we have others waiting to have a seat. If you would self-impose a 2 or 3-minute time limit, we would appreciate it.
>> hi. I live at east 10th and lydia so I知 within the neighborhood, just a couple blocks from the location. The previous speaker mentioned fear, and i too have been a little disappointed with some of the things i've heard today. When i first heard about the proposed treatment center, my first reaction was why not. You know, we need to have teement centers. It's clearly a problem that needs to be addressed. I was a little concerned about the location being in a predominantly residential area, even if it is on the edge of 11th street. But i tried to keep an open mind. What really gave me pause more recently was when i learned that dr. Nagy and others of her staff didn't notify residents and they may or may not have been obligated to by law, but it seems if one is going to implement what would reason expect to be a controversial treatment center, the first thing one would want to do is try to build consensus. I hope the commissioners can appreciate people in the neighborhoods since they don't know many of the details because they haven't been communicated with effectively would be fearful. So at the very least, it seems to me that there needs tore more time to deliberate on this. Now, several people have talked about money. So not only does ebenezer in addition to the good work that it does have an interest in renting the space, but now too i've just discovered today the county has a financial interest in this transaction in having this done quickly. So I知 a little disappointed that for whatever reasons, either because they felt they weren't obligated to in spite of the obvious wisdom of communicating with everyone, all the stakeholders in the neighborhood, not just the director of the child care programs, but the parents themselves, I知 disappointed that -- that the treatment folks didn't do this with enough time to notify everybody so that we could build consensus and act as a community. I知 also disappointed that apparently no other locations that would be very close to where we are but not right next to residential areas seem to have been seriously considered. So i kind feel like everybody has a gun pointed to their head because of the money and time line. I think it would be very unfortunate to let that drive your decision and not take the amount of time required to really build a consensus. I think we all have a consensus this is a necessary and positive program. It's simply, as judge biscoe said earlier this morning, it's simply a matter of where. And yiewrn i was on the fence until it felt like we were seeing an end run-around and that tipped me to be in opposition because i don't really feel very trusting of people who don't want to get me involved in the decision-making process. So i thank you for eye time and hopefully i haven't used up too much of it.
>> questions?
>> i do. How would you -- which neighborhood association are you involved in?
>> I知 a resident in the gain area.
>> how would you appropriate in terms of notifying the community in building that consensus, what would be the most efficient way to get the information out to the residents?
>> well, first of all, i think we need more than just a month notice before a decision is reached. I think part of it is a matter of time. Right now it's 11:20 in the morning and i have the good fortune of having a flexible schedule and i have a class i can miss so i can be here, but not every working person in that neighborhood can be so we need more time to gather people together. I知 also disappointed -- I知 sure the director of the day care made an informed decision, but if i had my child in a day care or in my children's elementary school was saying oh, by the way there's going to be a treatment center right next door and the principal signed off on it, well, i would expect as a parent that i would be involved in that.
>> have you seen the time line of the --
>> yes.
>> the outreach?
>> i saw the time line that mr. Mckinney outlined in his letter to you, and i think that seemed to be fairly accurate with my recollection. I didn't go through my e-mail to correlate dates.
>> so you also know that the original outreach to the neighborhood started -- i think the consensus -- the -- what's the word? I知 losing my words. It's not in contention that september 20th there was a meeting for the neighborhood groups to discuss the program.
>> and we're barely december.
>> right.
>> so what that means is that because i have a sense of how long --
>> that's three months.
>> how long it takes to negotiate leases, right? Let's say there's some opposition hypothetically. Then is there time to turn around and find an alternative venue in two and a half months? Not really. So in essence by september 20th we were not asked for our input, we were given an f. Ia a come complete and it's going to go through because you've got to to end of the year to spend the money it's your suggestion we should have started earlier, but that the outreach -- it seems like there was significant attempts to notify the neighborhoods short of, of course, sending a card to every single resident on the tcad. I think -- would you agree it's appropriate to try and reach the residents through the neighborhood associations?
>> i think it's appropriate to reach the residents through the neighborhood associations, but robertson hill neighborhood wasn't notified. They are impacted.
>> i believe we have documentation that robertson hill --
>> well --
>> was sent --
>> I知 happy to --
>> at least two communications.
>> i've heard from robertson hill residents that they knew nothing bit.
>> of course, there will always be some residents who say --
>> of course. Would you agreeit's appropriateo reach the residents through the neighborhood association.
>> yes.
>> but that it's your contention, and i completely understand this, it would be much more beneficial, and i agree, to start as early as possible. So that the contact and the communication can be meaningful, that the exchange of information --
>> it just doesn't feel like there was any good-faith effort to consider alternative locations.
>> okay.
>> thank you.
>> thank you very much.
>> bonnie ramsey and i am with -- or I知 a homeowner two blocks from the location in question. I am a member of the anderson hill homeowners association. I don't know if that's the same thing as robertson hill. I know that they've -- the two terms have been -- i don't know. I just -- I知 part of anderson hill. Nobody knew about this at all. I found out last night after dark. And i canceled my day to be here. There's a couple different issues that i think that need to be brought up that really haven't even been touched upon is i've been a member of this community for 10 years now or going on 10 years, and I知 right there with you, i wanted to thank you for what you had said, commissioner davis, on your speech that you gave a little while ago. I have had several break-ins in my house, in my car, things have been stolen off my porch recently, and after the sweeps, there were several sweeps and we didn't have as many problems, but the crime is coming back so i think a lot of people in the neighborhood are a little more uneasy about the situation. I think one of the main issues that i would like to bring up that i haven't heard anybody talk about is i've lived here for 10 years and i've watched the revitalization and the millions and millions of dollars that has gone into the revitalization in the 11th and 12th street corridors, and i don't feel like anybody is considering that putting a drug rehab center in right when you get to the arches, bam, there it is, i just don't feel like it's -- i don't know what the word is. I guess basically I知 just opposed to it and i just wanted to say that. Another issue that i wanted to bring up is parking. I drove by there today, this morning at 9:00, and the parking lot was already half full. And it doesn't seem like there are as many parking spaces. They may be counting parking spaces around the block, but if you really check it out and if you drive by, that's really an issue. There's also -- also an issue, there's a wells fargo that just went in right there. And there's no parking for wells fargo. There's bus stops right in front of there that you can't park. I am concerned. I personally drive up to 12th street to go down south, even though i live, you know, two blocks between 11th and 12th, i drive up to 12th street to go south because 11th street is already getting so congested with traffic. Now, i heard the hours are going to be from 11:00 to 8:00. That's like rush hour traffic starts over there at, like, 3:30. And it's non-stop. There's already, you know, severe congestion in that area during rush hour traffic. There's no place to park for people going to the bank. They are having to park in a vacant lot cross the street that hospital potholes and there's big rocks, like my little car got stuck in that lot trying to go to the bank. I would like to see something or even presented to anderson hill association or robertson hill, whichever we're considered now, you know, the parking situation. And, you know, like the traffic situation and how this is going to affect traffic because we're already having parking problems, people are already parking down the street, you know, into our neighborhood already. And yes, it is a commercial district, it's one street, but everything behind 11th street is residential. So it does affect -- it does affect us. That's the main thing is just the revitalization and the impacted on the revitalization in a negative way and the transportation and the parking situation because it's already bad now. And all the stores aren't even full yet. So that would be my take on it.
>> questions? Thank you.
>> eden davidson and I知 on staff with the texas criminal justice coalition. I知 alsoni a recent graduate from the social work school at u.t. Where i studied -- my focus was on criminal justice reform and rehabilitation programs that work. And i've been following the program model that the community supervision and corrections department is using here in travis county, and we really have in travis county a model program. What is happening here is we have now 500 people in the next year who are going to have access to cognitive treatment, substance abuse treatment. This is what has been found to work. I知 not here just from an academic perspective because i've been studying this or from a professional perspective because I知 now working in criminal justice reform professionally, but i've been personally impacted by substance abuse addiction. In my own family, substance abuse addiction was part of my entire childhood. And when i became an adult, my parents found recovery so i've personally benefited from my parents finding new futures and new possibilities for themselves, and i would hope that families and neighbors in east austin who have family members and friends who have substance abuse addictions are also able to get access to the kinds of services my family was able to get access to because i have been able to -- to sort of maybe have some good things happen in my life, and I知 here before daw. I hope that treatment is available for others as well. I also -- i don't live in east austin. I know the prices of homes are affordable and I知 looking to buy a house, and gosh, there are homes in east austin that i still may be able to afford, but i haven't moved into that neighborhood. I live on the west side of i-35. And I知 sorry, and my hope is that this is something that can be a community building endeavor. You know, i come from the school of social work. We're very much about community participation and I知 really sorry people here today don't feel like they've been able to be a part of the process and that they didn't receive notices or they didn't -- they weren't aware of when the meetings occurred. But from here on out, I知 dedicated to helping to ensure this program is a success and people do feel safe and people who are residents feel like the program is monitored so if there is some kind of a committee that's interested in monitoring this, texas criminal justice coalition is also willing to participate in that. We just want to see it be successful. So thanks for having us here today.
>> questions?
>> page warshaw. I oppose the location on the treatment center. My family lives at 8th and san marcos, just a couple blocks away. We've owned our house for about nine years now. Since we've been there, we feel like the homeless problem has goen worse through the neighborhood. Car break-ins have gotten worse through the neighborhood. We have tons of street traffic up and down san marcos street. Lots of drug dealers back and forth. I'd say about once a monthish, friday, saturday nights we're driving home and we'll get -- we get propositioned, i imagine by drug dealers who are standing on san marcos outside of our house. And try to pull us over in our car. So there's a lot of fear when they talk about bringing felons with addictions into our neighborhood and i just feel like we've already got so much that we're dealing with. So i just question the wisdom of putting a treatment center in a neighborhood that already has so many challenges. That we're dealing with.
>> to deal with the drug treatment needs of the individuals who are there, where do you think that drug treatment should occur? Frtion.
>> in an area that does not have as much drug problems.
>> so the people who have drug problems there should go someplace else?
>> i think where there are not as many temptations and where there are not families with kids. Living right there. We deal with so many problems already. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> good morning, sharon mckinney and i live on east 8th street. I want to thank everyone here for participating in a very passionate and complex and very difficult issue. I think we can
>> [inaudible] on a lot of what happened and we are at where we are at and we need to make the best decision for everyone involved as possible. I absolutely agree with commissioner daugherty on how difficult this and it doesn't seem like there's a perfect win-win. It really doesn't. Someone is going to have to or several parties are going to have to give in some. The way i see it, living in our community and being so directly impacted, here are the factors that i consider when i looked at this issue. And i really wanted to be fair about it because i agree, we're all trying to do the right things and help substance abuse. It is a prevalent problem in our community much less our nation. We need to have another solution other than prison. Absolutely agree. Don't disagree with that. But again, the challenges is what is the big picture of the solution? In hearing all the thoughts and in meeting with dr. Nagy and her team on saturday, getting more information, doing my own independent research as much as i could for the time that i had to look at this, here are the things that i consider that i really want you to take heed and think about as we make this decision. There are no statistics or data on exactly the same type of program. This is pretty much a maverick, a bench mark type program that we're going piloting which, again, absolutely applaud our ability and our need to do this. Some of the detail, some of the information we have seen is on similar types of programs not exactly like this. Voluntary types of treatment. You know, different details that could have a dramatic impact on what the outcome could be for the surrounding areas. So unfortunately we don't have data that can make us feel better than says, you know what, in nebraska we had this problem and these were the data. Yes, it did have an impact on the community, yes or no. We don't have any of that. Secondly, once -- from what our understanding is and from the information we were given, once the program gets in and the lease has been signed, whether it's a year, five years, six months, whatever, the program has not been 100% defined. Now, i think dr. Nagy knows pretty well what they want to do and, you know, most of the specifics; however, what makes it uncomfortable and we have no recourses, if the program changes and say the types of participants, the demographics of it are open to other types of offenders, our neighborhood has no say in that, right? It's a done deal. It's their program. Things can change. Anything with can happen. Once that is done, we have no say. That makes me very uncomfortable. And then finally, when you just look at the situation from a very high level of just win-win and the benefits and challenges for each party, the neighborhood, in my opinion, has the most to lose at the most risk. When i asked at the neighborhood meeting of dr. Nagy, help me understand or give me some sort of guidance on how you envision that there will be no negative impact to our community and our neighborhood because of this program. We know what it is like right now. We know what the crime's like. We know what the current state is. But the only -- so with this change, how can you help me feel comfortable and almost i'd like a guarantee if we can how this will not have a negative impact to our community. How can my community be better. How can you help me understand with data and with details that it won't get worse. And her response was my belief is that it will -- your community will be better. Your community will benefit with this. And that's her -- and that was her answer and i respect it, but i can't go off of a belief. When i have a family and i see what's going on in our neighborhood. So again, when you look at this from a high level, we have the most to risk and at this point we are being asked, i believe, to really -- to give in on that risk because of a time line. We have to make a decision by the end of the year. Unfortunately there's poor miscommunications, no fingers pointed, but not everyone knows the situation and we don't have all the details and all the information that would make us comfortable to say yes and to wholeheartedly support it. If you look at that, we have the most risk and we have no recourse and there's -- and that's it. Once decisions are made, it seems like that's it, we won't be able to do anything about it and we suffer and could benefit from the consequences. If you look at that at a high level, why would we openly want to put more risk in an already challenged community right now in the midst of trying to rebuild and trying to help individuals that we have. So those are the things that i considered and i appreciate your support and i applaud your efforts in trying to help us fix this situation.
>> questions?
>> were you at the december 1st meeting?
>> yes.
>> and i just wanted to corroborate this because this is a statement from our folks so i want to make sure this is what you had heard too, that the individuals who would be treated there ever, it would not deviate from this, there would not be those from the mental health unit, there would not be sex offenders, there would not be 3-g offenders, and those populations would never be served at that location.
>> correct.
>> also that those with more serious substance abuse needs requiring residential treatment or something less than residential would go through the smart program, not through this program and that's what it's designed to do and it would never be used for more serious drug offenders. Is that what you heard as well?
>> uh-huh.
>> and also that as far as changes that could be expected, is that the program may expand to eligible misdemeanor participants in the misdemeanor d.w.i. Program. Did you also understand that from the conversation?
>> probably. I don't remember all the details.
>> okay. And that there may be the addition of two more counselors in the next one or two years to handle perhaps the increase from the misdemeanor docket or, frankly, the success of the program if the program is successful, then you would want more folks with drug addiction issues to get that kind of help.
>> absolutely.
>> that was the commitment from our folks on december 1st, that that's the program, that these are the parameters, and that the expected change would be not to the population served -- the population served but perhaps the misdemeanors.
>> what if we went further into the night, those things would be --
>> it's the speculative changes -- are you against the program as it has been proposed or are you against the program as it may evolve?
>> as it evolves because it hasn't been finalized. What we have seen is not the final -- this is exactly what we're going to do starting day one. There are a few details that they need to iron out, understand that. But after those details are ironed out and say six months down the road whatever happens, change happens and there's a change to the program, i think my point is that our neighborhood, my sense once it is in --
>> but as it is proposed to be operating day one, you would not have opposition to it. You are concerned about how it may change.
>> i don't have opposition to the program.
>> as it's been lined out.
>> exactly.
>> en you don't have opposition to how it could change in regard to including misdemeanantss and two more counselors.
>> if we have two more cowboys counselors, does that more classes?
>> if you are more comfortable if proposed changes are brought to your attention were implemented?
>> i would be. So we have an ongoing say. More people talked about a total package, everyone is working together.
>> > what i expect doing from the particular neighborhood request, they did present a document which we all received talking about public notice. And, of course, i guess the public -- the county attorney will give us an opinion on that determination of that particular public notice since it appears there is -- as far as -- some clearness as far as was the process followed according to this document. So i heard you mention public input and the process, and, of course, i also heard you say about the problem that you have in the community and i heard others say about the problem in the community as far as the vandalism, the drugs and the crime, but this is occurring all throughout eastern travis county. I don't know where -- i do know about my precinct. I don't know about nobody else's, but i do know about mine and it's happening all through the neighborhoods in travis county on the east side. Now, the problem is how do we address it and the challenge is how do we collect i feel deal wit. And i stated that before, i don't want to be redundant, but we have some serious challenges and we need our neighborhoods to be just as saving a anybody else's. Thank you.
>> i wanted to say a word since ebenezer is involved in this, it's been mentioned a great deal, but we began participation in many of these programs and concepts 38 years ago when i came to lead our church to what we could do and we have committed more and more resources to working with these problems. So when we decided to build some new structures, the city asked to us make it two stories so they could work with it and we did. Not just a suggestion of our own accord. We sort of led the way in new construction in the area for these programs that we are discussing. But i think it makes brief what i have to say is it depends upon our concept of human personality. God has made everybody in his image and what we think of persons depends largely on what we will be doing today and tomorrow. And i would hope if we would use the resources and opportunities available to us to bring about a day where every person can be the best possible person that he could be.
>> thank you.
>> thank you, reverend.
>> thank you.
>> let's pick up with this gentleman on the send, then let's work our way back.
>> dominick gonzales. I am a resident of that east austin. I live on navasota street. And i don't think I知 going to be the only resident that would be in support of programs like this. And in support of this specific proposal. I support it wholeheartedly as somebody that's lived in east austin for a long time and as somebody who plans on continuing living there. The first thing i want to do is i want to thank the leaders of the ebenezer baptist church for taking a leadership role in this community in addressing a public health issue which is drug addiction. And i want to -- i want to thank them for recognizing that they are serving a community that has a need and they are serving the people that live in their community and that live in our community. That's a very important leadership move. I have had the opportunity to participate in a lot of ride-alongs with austin police department. And one thing that i've learned in participating in those is that our city's, our community's drug problem is not confined to one particular geographic area. It's all over. And just because you move into a neighborhood and you paint a house, that doesn't mean that your drug problem is going to necessarily disappear unless you are willing to do something about it. And that's why ebenezer church is so important because in order to deal with this public health issue, it's going to take people saying i want to do something about it. It's going to take people saying I知 willing to do something about this personally. And so that's what ebenezer has done and i think that's something that you all need to consider as leaders of this community. You need to be willing to say this community is going to do something about it. And it's a little disheartening to see people who recognize a problem, recognize that you have addicts living in your community, recognize that you have people in need of services, but fail to recognize that you can do something to meet those needs. And you can do something to help solve those problems. So as a resident that lives there, i want you to know that i support it, that i think there are other people who support it there. I plan on making a future there and i know that having that resource in the community is going to help the problem. I mean just common sense. If you have someone that's living somewhere and they need services, why are you going to send them somewhere else to receive these services? Why not be a part of providing those services? Why not be somebody that is willing to say yes, i will take part in it. So i want to encourage you all to do the same, to follow your leader's example and vote for this. I know that there's been some problems with communication and i know that -- or some perceived problems with communication, but i think that if you are willing to get involved and you are willing to be a part of the solutions, then communication becomes a lot more easy and a lot more easy to facilitate. I want to thank you for your time and thank the ebenezer church.
>> yes.
>> robin hendershot, a resident of around the 11th street area. About four blocks from the proposed site. I would just like to speak about my concerns. Having had around five years experience doing social work, you know, i have had concerns about some of the ways people have expressed themselves, seeming as though they were demonizing the people that would be seeking treatment, and i want you to know as a resident although I知 concerned and at this point opposed to it, i don't feel as though the reason I知 opposed is because i feel like the people that are coming, that would be coming are pedophiles, potential pedophiles, i don't think they are necessarily any way different from myself fundamentally or my neighbors. I have concerns about the communications process. I've heard a number of people referring to the robertson hill neighborhood association. As far as i can tell since i've been living in the neighborhood, I知 a member of the anderson hill neighborhood association and i had not heard anything about this until a couple weeks ago. So i know that you brought up the question of should we be sending out cards to everyone in the neighborhood? Well, yes, actually that would have worked for me if i had known back in september that this was a potential issue.
>> but you know that would be cost -- that would be very, very difficult to do on every issue of concern to neighborhoods.
>> if you are going to define 11th street as a commercial corridor, and i think people have made this point already, i think it's worth considering if you look at 7th and 6th street as commercial corridors, you have a number of blocks. The other thing i've noticed as a social worker, if you look at east 7th street, there are a number of social service agencies clustered around there. If you are looking for a central location, east 7th street where you have also sorts of -- or east 6th street, monty crisco's or chicon and mlk, there are a number of places where the character at this point of east 11th street has seemed to be -- i don't know if people are trying to push calling it the east end, trying to raise property values for businesses, trying to bring in more revenue, it just seems like it would be a bit of a shift to use that as a site for the amount of traffic that would be coming through for people seeking so i wish there were other alternatives being taken into consideration. I haven't seen proof that that is actually been happening. Oes seem as thouhe rhed. Ani appreciatehe fact that ebenezer churchad sh large role in the community and i completely agree with the fact that people need services in their neighborhoods. I guess i just wan i sre where erareth services. Cuen neighborhood, given the fact there's so much drugs and prostitution going on at chicon and you have arch and all the other services at 7th, we are a pastor neighborhood at this point -- pass-through neighborhood, a lot of foot traffic people going back and forth getting that you are student services and going toord chicon. I personally am afraid that the actual look and feel of our neighborhood will tetrriorat though some and for the community it will be fine. But i thinkicar spot on 11th street is not an appropriate place for a treatment center.
>> questions? Thank you.
>> [one moment, please] express what sounds like tremendous concern about their personal safety. I -- I知 saddened to hear that you see drug traffic occurring regularly, that you feel clear that law enforcement is unable to address the issue. However, i would like to make a few clarifying points. I think in this discussion there's been a lot of confusion of a drug treatment center with essentially an open air drug market. They are really very different things. The drug trade that i think many residents are seeing in their neighborhoods is something that law enforcement must take a proactive approach to at the front end of the system. These people attending these treatment program have already gone through the criminal justice system. This is a part of their sanction, a part of the treatment they need in order to move ahead and no longer be a part of this criminal lifestyle which you feel is threatening your neighborhood. And a substance abuse center is also not a jail, it's also not a place where people are being incarcerated, a place to keep your children away from. It's a place people are receiving treatment for a medical condition. And i want to change commissioner eckhardt about her comments drug addiction not being an equal opportunity employer. Simply because someone in your family had a medical issue. Lastly, i would like to say i really urge groups like gain and other neighborhood associations to get involved in the issues, the various issues that they have discussed that to me really don't seem like they are related to the question of the substance abuse treatment center. The issue of homeless people knocking on their doors late at night. These are things that would require perhaps additional shelters, perhaps additional work with the commissioners court or with the city of austin to provide services to keep that from happening because i agree, i would be very disturbed if these things were happening to me in my home. Or increasing the quality of law enforcement or the effectiveness of law enforcement in your neighborhoods. But not to take away from people this opportunity to get their lives back on track after they have gone through the system, and i'd also like to briefly speak to commissioner davis and say that unfortunately in my life time i've never lived anywhere or anyplace where i could sleep on the porch. It sounds very nice.
>> you really haven't? Used to be that way in east austin. We did it frequently. You would sleep in the front yard on pallets.
>> it sounds great.
>> watch the stars and everything else. And woke up at sunup and nothing bothered you. That's the way the neighborhood used to be.
>> i think that sounds like an idyllic situation. I would love to live in a neighborhood where i could do that. I do believe these programs will address the public safety concerns you have and that i had growing up in lots of neighborhoods that had similar issues. Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and i appreciate your time.
>> now, any clarifying points or anything new and different, briefly stated.
>> if i may.
>> you may. And you may too. These are the criteria though.
>> i'll be brief unless there is rebuttal. Commissioner eckhardt talked about our concerns about what sorts of crimes that might be committed by people attending these facilities. For one thing i think it's important to understand these are correctional facilities by definition by the legislature. They are not just a substance abuse treatment center.
>> we're going to get a legal opinion on that.
>> these people have been convicted of a crime and as alternative to incarceration they have been referred to drug counseling. And mrs. Mckinney is right, travis county doesn't have any studies that can show what happens at a similar facility because travis county has never operated one before. We've had voluntary programs people can voluntarily submit to but never one where a court could order the person to go and the person would have to attend. But we do have reports of other studies around the country where similar types of experiments have been conducted and i'll just cite you one from wisconsin. Substance abusing offender assess is low risk, referred to community based supervision. This was a 18-month study. On the followup, they found 58% were rearrested 18 months after being referred to one of these facilities. For crimes such as battery, theft, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. And importantly, 22%, almost one in four of those participants in the program were rearrested for violent offenses such as battery, robbery, sexual assault, disorderly conduct. That's one in four. They've suggested that they want to put 1500 people to start with in this program and then there's been an admission that maybe this program will be expanded. If we have similar numbers here, one in four, that's 375 people a year coming into our neighborhood that can be expected to be committing violent crimes within 18 months of being submitted to one of these programs.
>> none of the people suggested for this program have been convicted of violent crimes and i want to continue to say that.
>> this was a low risk --
>> i'll be happy to look at the stats on that other program in another state. I'll be happy to look at that.
>> these were low risk offenders that subsequently committed violent crimes.
>> i'll be happy to look at it.
>> these are the type concerns we have about what the effect of such a facility might be on our community.
>> [one moment, please, for change in captioners] we are out of time except very, very brief comments from dr. Nagy. Speak for other two please.
>> i want to clarify some. First of all you have been given erroneous information. Quite obvious, the report that mccib knee talks about -- mckinney tks about is not authored by
>> [indiscernible], point of the report is how the public has demonized the drug abusers. Let me read from that report because i think you and the public has been given inaccurate information. It says that given most of us commit some types of crime in our lifetime, the most severets are targeted toward lower class citizens. It's about disparity and the opportunities. It is this class of people that we are willing to punish disproportionately to the criminal acts. This willingness to punish them is rooted in our culture of individualism which holds that we are free willed and responsible for our action. This belief speaks to our tendency to assign blame for every disapproved fact. Many factors, plug race and economic status affect life situations and limit or expand our available choices. This entire document is about -- about the lack of opportunity. What i really wanted to speak to you about is the numerous times that gain and other people have said that we have not done due diligence in notifying the various community groups. We have and we have documented that. And we have every single e-mail and piece of corresponds that we provided to everyone along the way. One gentleman did say there's a difference in perception. And that is obviously true. But -- but roger, when we had the meeting on september 20th, he got his information as to the contact person for the various associations around this location from the community registry. We are not responsible for who these associations identify and the community registry as a contact people. We contacted them. They were invited. Robertson hills contact person is identified in the community registry. Did not come but called and we provided him information he said at that point in time he would provide us with any concerns if his association did in fact have any. We have had corresponds -- we have not received concerns from them. However, we did receive an invitation to come to one of their meetings and they provided us with options. They did not say they had concerns, but they would like us to come there. It was not a last minute scheduled meeting. It's been scheduled for some time. And in addition i hav spent -- sent personally e-mails to the contact person identifying the community registry with informatio saturday, when gain d that they had some concerns abssociation, i personally took hard copies of all fact sheets to the apartment building and gave them to the manager. In addition, i immediately my and i spent thend went rest of the day attempting to contact this person once again. I left two phone messages, one at about 12:30, one at 6:00. I also sent them an e-mail. Identifying the importance that if they had any concerns to please let me know. That we would like to know of them before this meeting fomr associations. We cannot foe people to disburse informati and we cannot force people to have concerns when they apparentlyo not. But we made every effort. The time line that you have is provided to you if you would like to look at that. But i am very dismayed about people doing conjectures or making statements that they would not have every piece of knowledge of what i have done as i have worked through this. It's not their association that they are talking about. And they are stating it as if it's true and other people are making concludes about -- conclusions about their statement as if they are true. If you want us to look at every e-mail that we have provided we can provide that to you.
>> thank you, dr. Nagy. We did not give the a.p.d. Officer an opportunity to give comments. He's still here? He really missed his opportunity today. We will take this item into executive session when we go this afternoon. And it's looking like it will be around 3:15, or 3:30 when we go into executive session. So -- so probably at about 4:00, but I知 convinced that we need to go ahead and take action one way or the other today. And so after executive session, we will have a motion on this as well as some of the other items that we discuss in executive session and we will go into executive session on this item on the consultation -- under consultation with attorney. With that i move that we recess until 1:30.
>> second.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Thank you all very much for coming down.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Last Modified:
Wednesday, December 5, 2007, 18:30 AM