Travis County Commissioners Court
November 6, 2007
Item 30
Now, the big question is what do we do about number 30. We do have residents who have dom down and who have been here a while. If I were in y'all's shoes, unless you got real, real brief testimony, I think I would rather have as much time to have my say as I could. If we take you now, you are looking at, you heard me request that two-minutes time limit, self-imposed time limit. We start off with that. Start off this afternoon, basically it's kind of open. Yes, sir.
>> reason we are here is (inaudible)
>> I understand. I understand.
>> what we are here for is just as important as bird survival. Probably more so.
>> number 30.
>> yes.
>> we'll take it up. The only question is whether we take it up now or first thing after lunch.
>> I’ve already spent too much money on the parking meter, sir. I’d like to go now.
>> can you limit your testimony to under two minutes?
>> I’m not long winded.
>> is that okay with the court?
>> number 30 is to consider and take appropriate action on proposed staff analysis to determine whether the city of Austin property on fm 969 near the village of webberville meets the criteria of chapter 62 Travis County code for the siting of a solid waste facility. Joe, if you can just take one minutes or your two minutes to tell us exactly what this involves and then if we can just have residents come forward. It will help a little bit if you will just come forward. Joe gieselman first, Commissioner Davis next. Then we'll list ton the citizen.
>> yes, joe gieselman with transportation and natural resources department. Submissioner Davis asked me dipt to do an analysis on whether or not the sit property located on fm--city low property located on fm 69 near webberville would comport with criteria that the court has adopted for the siting of a solid waste facility. Their setbacks and what not. And I told Commissioner Davis that I’d be happy, or the staff would be happy to do the analysis. But I certainly wanted direction before the full court before we launched.
>> thank you, judge. Thank you, joe for that quickover view. I’d like to basically say that this is something that I think the community has been asking for us to do. And to look at this particular and get some analysis and things of that nature as far as this particular property is concerned. And I would like to make sure that I submit to the clerk some backup material that has been handed out, not only to the resident and the public but also to each one of you, documents that relate to the proposed site to be used for lan landfill from the neighborhood association, a letter from john queue as he attended one of these deals with the city of Austin in June, and also something from another tnr staff, wendy. With that particular backup, that we have here, think bee go forward. Like I see, this particular track of property has a lot of critical environmental features, I think. If you notice in your backup, posted uplands, archeological significance, springs, cluster of springs on the site. It's over an aquifer. A lot of attributes and a who will lot of stuff--a lot of stuff. And the historical nature, john webber, one of the persons that organized the village as we know it today. Again, all of this information will be handed and given to the clerk for public record for anybody wants to review this. So I will not delay, quite sure that the folks that are here, hopefully, will get the support from the court for staff to move forward in this particular analysis and this particular tract of property. So I will not delay the testimony. Thank you, I will take this to the lerk.
>> the request is for us to see how the tract of land come ports with the county ordinance, basically.
>> yes.
>> may I just, just for those of you all here, I received a phone call last night from council mem levving well who wanted someone on the Commissioners court to communicate the city of Austin was contemplating an archeological report by the end of December.
>> what was the date?
>> by the end of December. I wanted to be sure and communicate that to everyone at the outset.
>> can you turn that off. Just brought the my attention. Some of the folks are wondering if they can also come open this afternoon, in other words leave it open to continue testimony.
>> for those who cannot come back this afternoon, if we take these mow. Those who testify now, if you would limit yourself to two minutes.
>> mime name is david win locke. I live on brown sem triroad just across the--cemetery road across the road from the webber track. I bought the land before the city bought. And had I known, I would have bought in one of the other counties that sends trash to travis. It seems to me that the county needs to stand up that the Travis County ought to tell the city of Austin what they don't know. They are a part st Travis County. It seems to me that it's a shame to allow a few to ruin. We wouldn't need a new dump. I understand that you folks are represented by the citizens of Travis County to represent us. If that is not the case, we need new representation. That will support Commissioner Davis in the fight for improvements to Travis County and stop the infringement of the big trash companies on the freedoms of the citizens, which that is what we are. These freedoms are for fresh air I reference the stench from the dump. Freedom from the truck traffic. From trash along the county roads. Example is east u.s. 290. Trash all over the place. Freedom from water pollution of you are wells and the colorado river. Free doom from oppression. It would oppress the entire area all the way to the county line and to the colorado river and cities downstream from the pollution of the groundwater runoff. One question I like answered is what benefit do the citizens of Travis County get from bfi and waste management from taking in trash from 33 other counties? What do we get out of that? As far as I know, nothing. As far as the bird and bicycle folks, that 2353 acres would make beautiful bike trails and bird watching areas. So send them out there. We'd like to have them over a trash company.
>> you bet.
>> you promised two minutes.
>> I’d just like to thank you for your time. I hope you will seriously consider what we the people of Travis County want you to represent us for. Do not let trash companies and other cnnts and the city of Austin dump on us. Thank you.
>> thank you. Yes, sir.
>> judge and Commissioners, namemy name is john williams. I’m the president of the park springs neighborhood association and the association includes all the territory mentioned in this agenda item. You have the map and backup material that Commissioner Davis has distributed. You might want to refer to it. I strongly urge you to support this motion for staff analysis to determine whether the property is appropriate for the siting of a solid waste facility. Those of you who were on the court in 2003 when you enacted the ordinance chapter 62 may recall that henry trel, long time member and president of the association was active in your adoption of this order. In fact if you go back and read transcripts and look at the video of the meeting at which you adopted that, you can read his comments in support of your adoption of chapter 62. You have had much discussion, especially in the last few months, about how little authority the county mort seems to have to regulate appropriate land use, but you have adopted had ordinance and I strongly support Commissioner Davis's motion that you conduct this study. Chapter 62 establishes a buffer zone from public parks. You can see in this map that little webberville park is only about 22 hundred feet, less than a half a mile from the property. The new east metro park is less than one mile from the property and webberville park is only about 65 hundred feet away. Chapter 62 establishes buffer zones from historic facilities. Within the boundaries is one of the most important sites in Travis County history, the homestead of john and sylvia webber who received one of the city of Austin land grants and were one of the first interest of racial couples to live in Texas. Chapter 62 establishes buffers from the recharge zone of the colorado river.. Brurf bluffs are considered a crucial environmental feature. There's an abundance of springs in and around the property. In had summary,i urge that you support the analysis of how chapter 62 applies to this property.
>> thank you.
>> I’m germane swin son, vice-president of park springs neighborhood association. I would like to make a few comments about this tract of land. I think we and this portion of the county are the most population dense quadrant of the county, the most demographically diverse. We have the least amount of park land per capita and to my knowledge there are no preserves. We have the oldest settlement in the county. Also, a comment on the city of Austin's vital study. Studies can be biased. Especially when, you can base it on who is paying for the study as to which way it can be biased. I also think one thing should be included in that stud, --study, and that shouldn't long-term cost of monitoring this site. After the 50-year landfill there is a 30-year period of Monday --monitoring by the lease ee, which would be bfi and waste management. After that I believe it's the city of Austin's liability. As we know, that the environmental problems of the landfill go on for centuries after landfill has been capped. I think this is a wonderful day to be visiting you. Obviously some passion by people earlier about land use. This is a no-brainer. Before any decision, the sit and the county putting landfill on this property, I would say there are amazing vistas you should go there in person. Studies are just words. You should experience the largest red cedars in the county the largest post oaks and the first nesting pair of bald eagles on the colorado river right there in webberville just a few feet from this beautiful land. Just consider that. Thank you.
>> thank you. Yes.
>> my name is e v e williams and I’ve been a citizen of Travis County for 35 years. Every texans throws away seven pounds of garbage eve day. Each week as we roll containers to the curb our trash like magic disappears. Few ask where does it go. The answer is disturb thing. Our garbage is placed within lined tombs, meant to be sealed off for poster ty. Landfill technology is flawed. Liners leak and caps are penetrated. And hazardous garbage and cancer causing gasses escape into the environment where they contaminate the air, the water, and soil. A study by text ---- leachate was found. Odor us gasses released from landfill can migrate in different direction. Undetectable gasses may travel beyond one mile. There are growing number of scientific studies that recognize the correlation between distance from landfill and the health of nearby residents. Scientists and physicians are supporting the preponderance of evidence that landfills lead to respiratory troubles, cancer, low birth rate, and deformities in babies. In Austin there are 70 identified landfills. The majority of them are leaking. In schools we learn about the web of life. A circle of invisible connections between the environment and human beings. The purity of our air, water and soil directly affects or health. Until we have a better technology for handling our garbage, landfills must be placed safely away from people. As Commissioners, you need to ask yourself, to you want your family to live near a landfill? Do you want your children to go to school near a landfill? If you look into your hearts, you would answer no. As a citizen of Travis County, neither do it. I--do i. I ask your support for the help of our Travis County citizens to the vote to prevent another landfill in eastern Travis County. Thank you.
>> thank you, ms. Williams. In answer to the other question about the other counties, though the answer is that Travis County does not have the authority to limit waste from other counties. If we own the landfills like william county toes--does. We could. But we do not have the legal authority to restrict from those two. Move that we recess. All in favor.
Now, this morning we did begin our discussion of item number 30, which is to consider and take appropriate action on proposed staff analysis to determine whether the city of Austin propt prot on fm 929 near the village of webberville meets the criteria of chapter 62, Travis County code for the siting after solid waste facility. We heard from two or three residents this morning. Others have come to address thus afternoon. There are four seats available. So if y'all would take those, we'd be happy to get your comments. Give us your name an then we will receive your comments. One of those fowsh seats are taken. There are three more. It would help us if we could go from one speaker to the next. That's my way of requesting that you come forth at this time if possible. Yes, sir?
>> my name is claude bramlynn. I’m a resident of Travis County. We have a home in town and a farm adjacent to the Austin energy project that is the subject of item 30. Just a couple of points I’d like to make. You're going to eventually hear a lot of talk about the stability and suitability of the property and the soils. The clay soil -- this is speaking from experience. If you ever try putting in post holes in that area, you will understand very quickly. The clay soil there expands more than a third of its volume between wet and dry, so it is a very unstable surface. Or if have you a house foundation you understand that very clearly. If you think about the difference between a third of its volume movement between wet and dry, this is an incrediblely unstable clay soil. When dry, the cracks that appear in the ground are absolutely amazing. Now, another more general kind of point to a larger issue, our family owns 15 acres in south Texas in the city of dilly, Texas. And we had a renter who aaccumulate add big trash pile and after the renter left we proceeded to try to clean it up. And so one of the questions is where's the local landfill? Well, frio county has closed its landfill. It doesn't have a landfill that's active anymore. And I was rather shocked to realize that that trash pile, if we brought in a solid waste service to take it, that trash pile would be transported all the way from a city halfway between san antonio and laredo to Austin, to Travis County, because Travis County is the area that accepts the solid waste from the surrounding areas that have closed their landfills. The larger problem is we're not dealing with a Travis County problem, we're dealing with a regional problem be. And it's leaving an incrediblely long-term expense and hazard that will affect Travis County not just for our generation, but for generations to come. And anything that you can do to limit any of the materials from outside our future expansion is going to be a very good idea. In modern -- in the modern world we should not be burying most that have stuff, but I realize it's more expensive to deal with it than to bury it. But it leaves a very, very bad legacy.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> okay. I’m helen (indiscernible) and I am speaking to you from the group for environmental justice and also as part teaming with buena vista. Our concern really is how you locate your solid waste facilities, your landfills, and overwhelmingly you locate them in minority and low income areas. And of course, I’ve pulled the Travis County distribution of burdens by race and ethnicity, this is online. I’ve looked at the tceq reports. And I have to tell you, we go back -- probably back to when the comanches were running the apaches out of Texas. And since then I grew up -- I was born in east Austin. We have hosted -- we hosted not only the landfills, but we've hosted your tank farm that you recently placed out on johnny morris road. I’m near the 290 and giles road. We have the solid waste facility down the way. And so our group, we're putting together scientific stuz brought in by scientists, environmental scientists for each one of you. Here's my concern. You guys spent a lot of time, and well you should have, talking about birds and wildlife. And what we're finding with our scientists, reports that are coming out, is that within a four-mile range we're seeing things like lung cancer. We're seeing leukemia in children. We're seeing -- and especially we're begin to go look at the landfill as a study in tempo because have you a minority neighborhood right against a landfill. And we're looking at cancer, we're looking at people who are -- and as I said, you will get the report because you and I have already met on this and I understood your reasons why you wanted to -- I think cost was an issue. Buying east Austin land is cheaper, eastern Travis County is cheaper and it's not cost effective for your trucks to transport it to el paso. I think we talked all about that. We talked about the placing versus west Austin and the limestone. I went back and I did research and talked to our scientist, but that clay is not in san antonio. It goes all the way up to dallas. So there's a reason now for us not to take that in. I’m sorry, I’ve got a cold and it's coming out. So, I’m coming to you from several different perspectives. First of all, we need to consider not only health issues, not only east and west Austin because you're concerned with warblers, we're concerned with our drinking facilities. I read in the paper the last vote that came through on 290, you talked about the stench. I believe it was robin schneider's group. They talked about the stench. It's the odorless car sin know generallics. I worked two years at an elementary that sits on a landfill. I’m flanked by a landfill on 51st street, 290 and the wastewater streement. We're noafert springdale hills neighborhood. This is just one example of minority east Austin low income. Well, we're not low income actually, we're middle class. But you toin locate these. The other thing is that I locate property across from the proposed land site, 2800 acres. There are springs up closetory where we are. The springs actually -- we have springs on our property, but the runoff comes into our property, goes into our spring fed pond. Fanned you put the landfill there, there again. So there are so many issues, and I’m really here just to tell you that we have these -- we have what you're asking for. We have the legal side of it, but we also have the scientific reports. Eve tawb about within a one mile ranch. The health of individuals living within four miles, that's conclusive. We look at international studies. We're looking at studies that are now being generated from our own universities. We've looked at dissertations. So we have what you need and each one of you will get it. We also have this report card from the Travis County that se distribution of burdens by race and ethnicity. It's one and 54 for whites, people of color. Facilities emitting (indiscernible), we have over our amount of getting this stuff. So I guess I’m impassioned about this. I had prepared a study, but when I heard you guys going on three hours about the birds and warblers and the affect, I need to ask you how much more valuable is a human life or a child? As a counselor for two year at wynn, there again, we sat -- wynn elementary over half of i-35 -- 183 and springdale road. We had to cancel classes because we would get gases that were emitted under our building. We had to send people home. Teachers became ill. Now, we can say until the cows come home that no, we don't have any conclusive studies, but these are people with real cases and we will present this to you in a timely matter. I have a study by geo metrics actually saying that we have arsenic running in tanne hill. That again is in the east mlk area. You want to carry this out to eastern Travis County where we're running our livestock? Where it filters down to webberville and the only drinking source of water -- to the wells of the people in webberville? And it continues on. My supreme that you look at the science of it. If you can't look at the humanity of it, you need to look at the science of this. And I want to ask each one of you, and don't answer, would you build your is house over on sprinkle cutoff road? Would you build out where we are 350 feet from where you're proposing this landfill? I understand that you have other issues and so this could be -- as I said, a bait and switch. You talk about a water, wastewater treatment and electricity and all those things. But we deserve in eastern Travis County the same quality of life. Our animals, we have the baldeagles coming through. Jermaine trawt bureaucrat that up earlier. They come through my property. We purposely bought the land to keep it pristine. Our homes are being built on -- where we're just doing very little clearing so that we don't upset the ecology. But do we not as minorities or as people who have chosen to live out and raise animals, organic beef, do we not have the same rights to the quality of life and the warbler? Or the black capped virio? We were talking earlier, the red winged black bird. We actually have the houston toad, but no one looks be at that. Did you make it out? That's what I want to ask ms. Eckhardt, did you make it out to the property to walk it?
>> I haven't come out with the neighborhood association, but I’ve been out, yes.
>> okay. And what did you see?
>> it's quite beautiful.
>> okay, it's beautiful. But there are issues, there are environmental issues.
>> of course, and I’ve been looking at them. Really, I would suggest that -- I don't want to make this a baldeagle, houston toad against golden cheeked warbler and black capped virio because the issue you're absolutely right is exactly the same. It's environmental conserve bevation and good stewardship not just for the beasts and birds, but also for our human health as well. Yes. That's really the issue, but here's my main concern and I will tell you what we're going for. We're going for no more it's not just relocating it.
>> the way we dispose of our trash.
>> I’m here today to tell you that you will get what you asked for. And you each will get a copy. But think about what you're doing for those neighborhoods? I left for 23 years and I came back and it's still the same. We had the incinerator, we've got the wastewater treatments. Now we have another -- so now those of us who think we're moving out and we're getting away from all of the problems of the city, you move out with us. I’m presenting a challenge here, a challenge to our conscious because really we can talk science. We can hire scientists to support anything we want them to say because the evidence has been there. They'll say not it's conclusive because of the work in the situations where they're probably exposed to it. I’m a minority and I don't work in an exposed -- I work in a white-collar environment. We can anything anything about the studies and we can ignore them, but I’m asking you to consider. Because I’m fight fog the warbler too. I don't think you should go into canyon lands and destroy habitat. It's not an east-west issue as you have brought it up, but I am saying this: isn't -- wouldn't a person's humanity be more important or as important as warblers or baldeagle for that matter? And think about the people who are living there. Think about the people -- it's not just eastern Travis County. It's not just 290, but I’ve lived around all of it all of my life. And I’ve seen the effects of it. And sure, we can't prove that my two pheasants died of cancer because of the rock quarry around my house, but we can say that we know based on reports from tceq, based on epa studies, based on what the scientists are now saying out at Texas a&m, based on studies coming out of the uk, that benzene, all these things that are being emitted, all of the dire effects not just from landfill, we are polluting ourselves. That's all I came to say, really, is consider the humanity and stop placing all these things in our area. We have our share. Take it out of Travis County. We don't need anymore.
>> and take it to whom?
>> we'll have that conversation later.
>> there you go.
>> recycling, yes; however, we also discussed the recycling research that says it's a dangerous -- take it out away from the population. Take it within a four-mile range. That's what we're proposing. At least that's where the cancer s it's a 10-mile effect but we can't prove that, but now the evidence is lining thawp within a four-mile range you're seeing the birth defects that were mentioned, you are seeing kids, children being born, getting leukemia, you see bladder cancer in females, you see breast cancer, you see respiratory elements. You see all of it. And unfortunately, the burden always falls nationwide within minority and low income areas or areas where the property is so inexpensive that it's easier to do it.
>> you are absolutely right.
>> so that's our next conversation, but thank you very much.
>> thank you very much.
>> and much of this was directed toward me. We've had this conversation and I hear what you're saying. My concern is if we take the trash to someplace we don't see it, we will never recycle it.
>> thank you, ma'am.
>> we'll talk.
>> we will.
>> by the way, we do look forward to any evidence that you have.
>> yes, you'll get it and it will be the international and national reports.
>> thank you.
>> I’m adrian fowler. I’m a native Austinite. I’m also a descendent of a family who has been in Travis County for I can't tell you how many generations. That's one of the things I hope to document in this leisure time of my retirement, and that I’m saying jokingly. My maternal great-great grandparents gave 200 acres of land to my great-grandmother and my great-grandfather to raise their family and to ray animals and crops to feed their families and to feed other families in the area. And I don't know of us are native texans, but we now that country folks share and many time you hear country folks talking about the fact that when the depression happened it wasn't as hard on them because they really didn't realize how bad thing were because when one had, all had. That's the kind of community the post oaks area of Travis County is, it still is that kind of community. The people who live there are people who are trying to raise their families in responsible ways. They are people who are being good stewards of the land as the folks who we are descendents of were good stewards of that land. And there are people who have always cherished education. The families of the post oaks area of east Travis County donated land and raised money to build a one-room school. It was called a rosen wall school and it was built right across the street from where you all are considering or where the landfill discussion is taking place, that piece of property. There was a one-room school there to educate the kids in that area so that they swroint to walk all the way to manor to go to elementary school. I don't know whether you all know dorothy aribo, but she is a product that have one-room elementary school out in the post oaks area of Travis County. I think that we have a responsibility to my great, great, great-grandparents who acquired the land. And I’m not quite sure how I intend to find that out -- to be the kind of stewards and to have the kind of consciousness about the gifts they have given us so that my grand-niece, who would an great-great-great-great- granddaughter of that gift giver and I would call them fill lan throppists because they did support the kind of things that are need understand community there so that she and her children would have the right, do have the right to expect that they can inherit the land of their ancestors and that it is as pristine or as healthy a piece of property as close to as healthy a piece of property as her great, great, great, great grandparents passed on, on down the line. My comments are personal. I do have the scientific background, but I just really wanted to talk about the personal today. Thank you very much.
>> thank you.
>> there are a few seats available if you have come to give testimony on this item. Please come forward. Otherwise this is our last speaker today. Afternoon.
>> hello. Thank you for allowing us to speak to you. My name is sharon bramblet and we live on burleson-manor road. The back of our property backs up to the property in question today. And we bought it in 1973 and moved throughout in about '84. And it's a fantastic area. We raise lamas and we have 20-acre and we don't do very much with the left of the land. We have a couple of cattle on it. And we want to leave it as it is. We really have concerns about what's going to happen to it if the city take that land because we're going to have all the rattle snakes and all of the coyotes, not just us, but all the numbers -- all of the neighbors too. One of the things I would like to bring up and I’m sure your attorneys can check on this if they haven't already, the state legislature has given counties the authority to prohibit landfills if they want to. They can -- you can make an ordinance that doesn't allow any landfills in Travis County, new any ones. I can appreciate Commissioner eckhardt's statement about not wanting our trash to go somewhere else, but trash has to go somewhere, and it doesn't have to go in such an area that is close to Austin. On that 2800 acres, you could put a lot of homes. You could put park. You could have trails. And the people would only have to travel 15 or 16 miles to go to work. It doesn't make sense to put a landfill there and then make the people move much further out and further cause congestion on the roads. There are -- we realize that that land needs to be used for something, and that Austin needs to make some money off of it, but it doesn't have to be -- it looks to me like it's the landfill companies that are going to be making the money off of it. And Austin and Travis County are going to be saddled with the permanent responsibility of taking care of it after the landfill companies leave. My husband mentioned this fland frio county that we have, and it's a very rural county. There are acres and -- thousands and thousands of acres down there on these huge ranches that no one would ever notice if there was a landfill down there. Now, it's used for hunting, but that's all it's used for. And there are many other counties even closer than that. But there's no reason why, especially if we've got sh 130 now, we've got i-35 that's going to be such a wonderful transportation venue, the trucks could get on that and go straight to frio county and they could dump there. And if we've been taking all of these other counties, the 33 other counties' trash and we're not getting any benefit out of it, actually, we're punishing Travis County by taking the trash from these other counties. If it would help that we only put Travis County trash in Travis County dumps, I think we would be be more likely to recycle, but we don't have the leisure of waiting 10 or 15 years to get around to recycling. We still have to put the trash somewhere now. If you would pass an ordinance prohibiting any new landfills, then we could go ahead and use the ones we have now. There would be plenty of time, bfi -- they could find someplace else. Travis County and Austin does not have to give them such a prime place to put trash when we could be putting people there and things that would be good for people. So please think about this and please consider an ordinance prohibiting landfills in Travis County. Thank you.
>> can we get an answer from legal? Does the county have the tiebility stop a landfill from coming into snraikt.
>> the Commissioners court has already passed an ordinance, chapter 62 in Travis County code, dealing with what she's refuse ren referencing, however, that statute is not an exclusive allowance to prevent any landfill, it just says if you're going to prevent landfills, have you to say where the one or however many places the court would allow a landfill.
>> but you can't prevent trash from being disposed of in the county. You can establish a specific plac that is the only place where trash can be disposed nf the county.
>> that's essentially what that statute says.
>> I understand that fort bend county has already -- there are three counties in Texas that have enacted an ordinance and they do not allow any landfills.
>> that's because the trash can only be disposed of on their city-owned facilities, is that correct?
>> more than likely.
>> just like Williamson county. Williamson county owns the landfill. So they don't want trash coming in from any county unless that county accepts the same quantity from Williamson county. But they own the landfill, so they can have that requirement. And they really contract out for waste management to operate it, but waste management has to operate it according to the terms and conditions that the county of Williamson can impose. Here we've got three privately owned landfill operators and two of them are in northeast Travis County. But what we're posted for today and what y'all are here on is whether we can do anything to basically persuade the city of Austin not to use its webberville tract for landfill purposes. That's what we're posted for. So you're down to say basically Travis County, do what you can.
>> yes.
>> and basically --
>> and I don't want to say not in my backyard, but it tock put in another.
>> I understand. I don't have any problem with that. Two things I have to say at this time. One is that we will not take action today because I need a one-week courtesy. Two is that there are two or three legal questions that I need answered by legal in executive session. What we will do next week, though, unless we take two weeks on this. It doesn't really matter to me. I’ll defer to Commissioner Davis on this. We will post this item early, like at 9:30 or so, so hopefully it will come up early, you won't have to wait around. Somebody else will wait around next time. But those two things. And it may be an hour or hour and a half before we go into executive session, probably another hour or so before we get out, but my question is that we take action on this item next week.
>> let me ask you this because I want to make sure you have an opportunity to continue to express yours concerns. I put this item on the agenda because of a lot of things that happened during the course of time, even with -- unfortunately, the mayor of webberville is not here. He was here earlier. That site with the historical significance and all the archaeological things that have been there and the community's total opposition to the city using this particular site for a landfill. This item is posted for the staff to go out and look at the assessment, look at the undergroundwater, look at the bluffs, look at all these other types of amenities there and see where they fit the chapter 62 of the ordinance that we have setforth to deal with solid waste facilities, whether they be minor, which are recycling, or whether it be major, which are the landfills themselves. They come up under that category. So this is where the direction I want to go in is to allow staff to go in and actually take a look and a peek to determine whether this property has the criteria and that fits into the mold of chapter 62 of the Travis County code looking at solid waste facilities. So I don't want to get away from that direction to get that determination. And of course, there are probably some legal questions that probably need to crop up, but the bottom line is that I want to make sure that staff have an opportunity to do just that because I think there's a lot of good questions that have been brought up so far. Of course, we need to look at this very carefully. I know that we -- I’m opposed to it, and I think everyone here knows what my position is on landfills as far as coming east in Travis County. No, I don't want any additional landfills over there, period. So hearing and saying all of that, I think that I need to ask you how long do you need for this to come back for us to take action on giving staff direction to go out and actually analyze to see if chapter 62 of the ordinance -- I hope everybody got a copy that have ordinance. The court is on record that we have approved sky tear criterion to deal with such entities. I want to make sure that each one of you understand that do you want two weeks or do you want one week before we look at this and take action? Would you need two?
>> how many want one week?
>> how many want one week or how many need two?
>> how many prefer two weeks?
>> I think two.
>> two weeks it will be. Let's get your comments, ma'am?
>> my name is nancy tieman and we purchased our land back in 1977 u. We have 15 acres for about maybe a half mile as the crow flies from where the proposed landfill would be. And I would just like -- would like to go on record as saying that I feel like we could do better with this acreage. It is beautiful land. And I would love to see something done more productive for the good of the people instead of a landfill. And I know this has all been said and done. This is what I would like to see done. We'd welcome the bicyclists and the bird watchers. And I would love something -- if we don't have to bring in 33 counties' worth of trash in Travis County, can our existing landfills handle what we have now and then work towards other solutions to deal with the trash. Because I know it is a problem. We all have our trash, we all go to the trash can and we throw away what we have, but I would love to have the ability for our trash to be handled better and for this area to be left as pristine or better usage for the public. So that's all I would like to say.
>> and for us to handle our trash better, think about it when you get a to go cup.
>> I tell you right now we don't have the ability to recycle as easy as the city of Austin does.
>> but I’m also talking about reducing the overall stream, not just recycling what you use. Think about using less.
>> right.
>> and the city of Austin --
>> [ inaudible ]. Since they own this particular property, I think it's on everyone to understand -- and I know you have gone before the city and we'll have questions that are publicly state that had this particular property will not be used for a landfill. We've had testimony from -- public testimony from city councilmembers to say just that. And since you're on it, this is just something that we're doing to see if we have applicable measures to look at this particular site and hopefully that chapter 62 will take care of a lot of things. But at the end of the day, the city of Austin who owned this property, Austin energy, we need to make sure that they are still willing to hold their feet firefighter and say this is not be used for a landfill. That's what really needs to happen.
>> do you have any input at all with tceq when they go through their process to make sure it's environmentally sound for this type of usage? Do you get involved in that process if they have to do a study?
>> we can.
>> yeah, we can.
>> that sounds like a good place to get involve there to me.
>> if it gets that far. Firks it gets that far. Maybe it won't. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> you're our last resident today, right?
>> good. I was here this morning.
>> we're glad you came forward.
>> I was here this morning and I had to go back to work and I just snuck back over here. I apologize if I duplicate anything that's been previously said. I also live probably a quarter of a mile from the area. And it's a beautiful piece of property, just as she stated. I’ve lived out there 24 years. We bought the property, built a home. I’ve got a kiddo. It's a great place to raise a kid, but I don't really want to raise him where we'll be having all the noise and smells that come from a dump. And I ask each one of you guys if y'all haven't been out to that property gorks out there. It's beautiful, beautiful. Just like she said, I her those fellows this morning arguing about the birds and the bicyclists. Highway, we could put a bicycle track out there and lit them ride out there. It's beautiful, beautiful property. And then on the concern as far as environmental, we get our water from manville and I know there are water springs out there. I know one of the places our water comes from is very close to there. Just from what I’ve seen in the past growing up in this area, for instance, over on 133 and 290 where they have the apartments on what used to be a dump, I knew some people who lived in those apartments and had to move whow the gases started raising. I’m not sold on the fact that everything is well designed on that leachate won't happen. The river is only a few miles from this place. We've got that beautiful new county park that's just as the crow flies probably not even a mile from where this is proposed. And I would think if the city of Austin, if they will really go out and look, there are other areas of land that are not as pristine norkts as pretty and wouldn't affect as many people who have homes in the area and want to raise a family. 24 years ago it was great because there wasn't as much growth out there. Now there's more growth coming, which is fine, but this isn't the kind of growth I was looking for. So I appreciate anything you guys can do in that regard.
>> for the record, your name is -- stacy fenton.
>> my name is johanne gunhock and I have one quick question. I wonder what's involved in making an amendment to chapter 62 if it's not tight enough to keep that landfill from going in on that city property? What's involved in amending --
>> one of the challenges is the legal authority. Based on legal advice we have received to date, we don't have the authority to do that.
>> to amend?
>> I beg to differ with you, judge.
>> I’ll ask that legal question of legal again today and that give them two weeks to find the answer if they don't know today. Your question is what precisely can Travis County do to prevent that property that's owned by the city from being used as a landfill, period.
>> right.
>> right. And I would think that amending the chapter 62 to where it would be -- is the distance is further and to save distances rather than the distances listed in it might take care of that.
>> I need to say off the record, although we are in open court, we had some doubt about the scientific data in support of those distances when we adopted them. We were as generous, I think, as we were bold enough to be. There's a little difference between a land owned by a private person and a land -- and land owned by another governmental entity, especially one that probably in the grand scheme of things has a lot more general authority than county government and we can blame the legislature for that. Anyway, those are a couple of questions we'll legal and I have two or three others to ask them.
>> thank you. I appreciate your time today.
>> johanne gunlock.
>> we'll get -- we'll ask your question and mine and try to get the answers. If we don't get them to you beforehand next time we dishus in open court, we'll get the answers to you.
>> thank you.
>> anybody else today on this item? Then we appreciate you coming down, appreciate your patience also. As I said this morning, most of the time I try to guess how long the agenda will take. I thought 1:15. We thought it would be 4:15. But lately it's been pretty much every Tuesday. When we guess at a time we're guesstimating how long it will take some of the other item. We don't know whether one person will show or many, many more. We had four public hearings. Our staff had told us that number 3 would probably take an hour. It ended up taking closetory two and a half hours, so blame staff for that. There they are throafer. Thank you very much. We'll see what we can do between now and the 20th when we have this item back on.
>> what time, judge, 9:30?
>> 9:30?
>> is 9:30 all right with everybody?
>> thank y'all.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, November 7, 2007, 18:30 AM