Travis County Commissioners Court
October 23, 2007
Item 3
Number 3. Receive comments regarding the following: a, draft agreement with bfi waste systems of north america, inc. And giles holdings, l.p.; b, response from executive director at the Texas commission on environmental quality (tceq) to proposed amendment to tceq municipal solid waste (msw) permit no. 1447 bfi sunset farms landfill; and c, other related issues. Before we start receiving comments, why don't we try to figure out exactly what this -- what the status is on the permit application. And -- and I was hoping that we could get legal counsel to do that, but if not let me try to do it. B.f.i. Has an application to expand its current permit at tceq. And we think that based on the quantity of the time in that application is 2018. Is that right?
>> special condition
>> [indiscernible]
>> [inaudible - no mic]
>> we will go to that next. But the original application was really to -- to about 2018. The county's position, capcog and the city of Austin's position is basically to go to 2015 and we will not object to the expansion application. The tceq executive director a few days ago gave responses to comments received. In that document they made reference to the special commission -- special provision of the November 1, 2015 deadline that capcog asked for and really capcog asked for it because Travis County requested that they do so and the city of Austin pretty much had agreed to because Travis County agreed to do so, also. The other thing that I think is important is that the agreement that is referenced in this agenda item and that I received quite a few e-mails on, set forth what I consider to be protections for Travis County and county residents in the event that something happens in the future to keep b.f.i. From adhering to the November 1, 2015 deadline. Residents, including many in this audience today. They asked us what will happen in 2015, sam, when you are not around. What happens when bitch may well change representatives and leadership -- what b.f.i. May change representatives and leadership, what happens to that date, what we saw were ways to put the county in a position to enforce take date. Before us today in my view are three additional ways to do that. They are the restrictive covenant, $100,000 basically letter of credit from the b.f.i. Corporate office, and liquidating damages of $25,000 per day. For each day that the -- that the landfill operates beyond November 1, 2015. You sue to get the court to order specific performance where you think there's been an agreement. There are four ways to enforce that if something happens November 1, 2015. So I just laid that out so we would make sure that we understand exactly where we are today. I have copies of the tceq comments or responses for those who have not seen them and wish to do so. Commissioner?
>> yes, judge, thank you. I think
>> [indiscernible] by the judge I'm told in opposition with the views, however but we are going to go through this process. I think at this time we do need a county attorney here on this issue. We don't have the county attorney I think that need to be here referencing this particular interest. So I requesting the county attorney office to get us a county attorney down here. Number two is that this particular request has been kicked around for a long time. This is not new. B.f.i. Has heard me scream about the expansion of this site for many years, I would like to go all the way back to 2001 because this is when this thing initially got started with trying to get some kind of solid waste ordinance set up and we at that time were not only concerned about the operations, but we were also concerned about the possibility of them looking for some type of expansion. But this process have dragged out here it is 2007, that's been six years, six long years, and they have put it before the court as if, well, we have -- we are running out of time, we are running out of capacity. As I stated then and as I'm stating now, I think that b.f.i. Has had an ample opportunity to do something about this and I have never heard the community agree to any of the conditions that have been laid before us. On may the 24th, of this year, 2007, standing room capacity crowd viewed their -- made their point of view before the tceq and stated very firmly they opposed any expansion of this particular landfill. Standing room only crowd. And we are talking about the testimony that even came from little children. We talked about the testimony that came from adults. Testimony that came from me as a Commissioner who at that time stated this, that I felt that you should immediately shut your operation down and also stop harming the quality of life for the residents of eastern Travis County. Now I've stated that. Now of course that information had been sent to tceq. My position. And also stated in that that you look for new home, not in Travis County. Eastern Travis County. Especially. So here we are still faced with a dilemma in this particular scenario. I'm willing to hear what -- what they have to say. Nothing changed in my opinion. Things still remain the same. But I do know that -- that when I hear from the little children and the parents of little children in that community, they have to suffer and put up with an atrocity, I'm speaking basically of bluebonnet elementary school where the children can't even go out and play during recess because of the odorous conditions that they have to endure, they have to come in and -- inside. When you hear stuff like that, you say what is wrong? What is really going on here? So they have had to continue to endure and what you are asking for now is additional capacity, additional time? Now if it's granted eight more years from now, 2015, you are talking about eight more years of the same type of thing that's been going on for all of these other years. Travis County is growing. It is becoming an urbanized area. More so rapidly as we have never before experienced. It's if the ddz, the desired development zone. That is something that things need to be taken into consideration. But the health and well-being of the quality of life is I think the charge of us as public elected officials, to protect the health and welfare of the citizens of Travis County!
>> [ applause ] I don't care where you live. Live.
>> [ applause ]
>> now, I have been here for -- for a few years, but my votes are consistent as far as when it comes to protection of health and welfare of human beings throughout all of Travis County. I don't make the distinction between the west and the east. I -- I vote consistently the same to protect that. Will continue to do that. This court just recently, I'm not sure what's going on here. This court recently, 5-0 vote last week pursued a -- a restraining order with temporary permit a restraining order to -- to look and investigate the pollution of hamilton pool from development runoff that have contaminated hamilton pool. Now, we brought it to issue -- to pursue that particular avenue. Now that's the protection of water. 5-0 vote on this court. When it comes to the protection of people, we seem to have a problem in differing in that concept.
>> [ applause ] now, the people on the east side I think deserve more so than ever a shot at a quality of life that the -- that is experiencing in the affluent areas of Travis County. After fluent areas. This would not be tolerated. If you would think about putting this around tarrytown or if you think about putting it around one of these gated communities on the western side of -- in western Travis County, you would have this place upside-down in turmoil, uproar because they will not stand for a landfill that -- any other kind of adverse land use located next to their gated communities and located -- their affluent status here in Travis County. It is time for this stuff to stop and today I hope that we send a clear message to this -- this Commissioners court and also any other government entity that folks in this community have had it up to here.
>> yes.
>> as far as the inequity when it comes to quality of life for the people on the east side of i-35. Now, I've said a lot, but the bottom line is -- is -- lord knows I don't hate nobody. Thank goodness for that. I love everybody. There's a right way and a wrong way to do this. We are going about this the wrong way in my opinion. Those little children who can't go out and play recess at bluebonnet elementary school are -- I wonder what little children at casis are saying right now. About those children. Why can't they get the same protection under the law like we are experiencing. There's something wrong with this picture, I just hope, I hope that we end up moving in the direction whereby persons east of i-35 can be treated like human beings with human dignity. Thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> all right!
>> yea!
>> [ applause ]
>> I will reserve my comments. Just to say that all of the residents have had it up to here, they may get 75 feet more of up to here.
>> how many of you are of the opinion that Travis County has the ability to close the landfill? How many of you think that we make the call on the permit application? Then let's hear comments. If you would come forth, we have six chairs there. Give us your full name. We would be happy to get your comments. And there is no time limit, but we do ask that you be mindful of the fact that others may have come to give testimony today. And we would like to hear them. Don't be shy, please come forward. Six chairs. Full name and we are happy to get your comments.
>> hello. My name is pamela
>> [indiscernible] I'm actually here representing my daughter and son-in-law amber and tonight
>> [indiscernible] they live in harris branch on say street. It is very, very common in that whole area to have the fumes, your eyes burn, your nose -- your throat hurts, I have slight asthma, I'm from michigan and I come down here and visit my daughter. In fact I was here may 24th and went to the meeting and saw all of the people standing around. I have never had to use my inhaler like I do around here. We have found that on weekends the odors are worse than normal. They cannot even go outside into their yard. There are schools there. There are daycare centers there. My daughter and son-in-law have called the tceq numerous times. They have asked to be -- to have a representative come out. They have also asked if they could monitor the air quality and call the tceq any time there are fumes. This is now a highly populated area. It's getting bigger all the time. I know that there's -- there's trash being brought in from as far as lee county. Maybe even farther east than that. I mean you are -- I just can't believe that you are having a landfill in such a populated area with the schools, I can't understand why anybody would want some kind of expansion there. People have to breathe. It's got to be causing lung problems for other people, for children. The tceq whenever they are called by my daughter and son-in-law just do not reply. That's basically what I have to say. Thank you for listening.
>> [ applause ]
>> thank you.
>> if you would finish if you could vacate your seat, would the next speaker please come forward. That way we can keep it flowing.
>> good morning. My name is stacy guidry. I'm an east county resident. And I am vehemently opposed to this landfill expansion. This company cannot be trusted. I am putting the call out to ms. Gomez here. I urge you, I challenge you to stand up to this company. You need to side with onconstituents, please, we are calling on you, please. Thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> my name is robert andrews, I'm a resident of harris branch. I didn't come here this morning intending to speak. But I'm a small businessman, been operating here in the Austin area since 1986 and so I understand the concept that the business the landfill was there when -- when the housing development was built, when the -- when the elementary school was built, that landfill was already there. But people built homes there and they built that elementary school with the understanding that there was going to come a time in the very near future when that landfill was going to fill up and go away. And so -- so we feel we've been misled. That we bought in an area and we built the school in an area and now they want to change the rules on us. And I think that's unfair. And far -- for this -- for this August body to side with -- with a business that -- that whether they are -- whether their business practices have been bad in the past or not, I'm not going to judge. But -- but the fact is that they are trying to change the rules on us. And east Austin is not hill country. Thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> we have two seats available. Two seats available. Ms. Almanza, back here.
>> good morning, I'm susana almanza with poder. I just briefly want to say, you know, our east Austin community took on b.f.i. A long time ago as we were bringing 350,000 households of recyclable to our communities. And a lot of people don't realize but when you get trucks coming, you know, every 15 to 30 minutes, that's industrial traffic and the pollution that it brings. When newspapers are wet, there's a foul odor and when you get milk jugs, all of these things, they also attract rodents. At one time the situation was so bad that the state health department had to come out and issue rat poisoning to everyone. There's a lot of different health hazards whether it's air, whether it's in the land, you know, whether it is directly impacted. All of these things are interrelated and they impact the health of the community and the health of the environment. So we have to look at do we really have the power to close down these facilities? Yes, we do. We might not have the power to stop the issuing at the city or the county level of the e.p.a. Permit, because that in itself is another monster that needs to be addressed. But the city by deciding not to continue the contract with b.f.i. Actually then was able to close down the facility in our community and we were -- we were also willing to look at a time frame that we gave b.f.i. A time frame so that they could look for another place, but a place that would not impact the healthy environment of the community. So that they could relocate and that is what happened. B.f.i. Did relocate. And now we have another b.f.i., which is wanting to expand. So I think that we need to look at, you know, do we have the power to stop that expansion? Yes, we do have the power to stop the expansion. Do we have the power to look at alternatives? We do. We need to start looking at 0 waste so we won't have to have these landfills. I think that is the direction that we have to go when we start to look at programs and campaigns and education, how do we begin those programs so that we can address a 0 waste so that we won't have to be here talking about b.f.i. And its impact on the health and environment. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ] yes?
>> good morning, my name is scottie ivory, I'm a member of the chestnut neighborhood association, also I'm a community activist, I'm a retiree from the state and I've been working with the community since '97. And I'm concerned about any issues that -- that come up for the communities. And looking out for the people and health and welfare of the people. Wherever I see something that's not right, I know that things are not being done right. I listen to the court. I may not be here, but I listen on t.v. All the time, listen to what goes on. I want for just say that I don't know what it is. I said to -- to honorable Commissioner Gomez, you are familiar with east Austin. Judge Biscoe, you are familiar with east Austin. In the area, what we have been put through these many, many years. And I don't want -- one thing I do not understand, every time it comes to a health issue or dumping stuff in east Austin, you both -- somebody -- Ron Davis put forth something for the community you vote against it, why? I don't understand. That's for the community -- you know, working for the people you are working -- you are the people's employee. And you are supposed to -- you are responsible for these people. How can you sit up there and let them dump stuff in east Austin? This is the most
>> [indiscernible] discriminating city and county that I have ever seen. Outward you look lovely, but you are really against the people in east Austin. I know. See I've been following you all the way. You wanted to move the tracks from mopac at one time. Then we had to get the trash trucks out of the neighborhood. And they moved the trash trucks and brought in vehicles that maintain in that same area where it's polluting the airment then you come on here and you're talking about the dumping grounds and who wants to smell stink in the morning when they wake up and go to bed? You don't. So what makes you think we do. I feel like you just --
>> [ applause ] it's time to wake up and -- it's just like my dad said, ain't nothing it but it. Ain't nothing it but it. The it is do the right thing and you know what the right thing is, thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> just for the record I'm not one of those tarrytown residents that Commissioner Davis mentioned. I live closer to these two landfills than miss ivory and Commissioner Davis. I live closer than both of them do. Yes, ma'am.
>> hi. My name is elizabeth trevino and I live and work within a five mile radius of the landfill. My mom recently passed away. Excuse me, from neurological illness called multiple system atrophy. It's a neurological illness that affects -- it's a degenerative condition that affects the entire body over a period of three to five years, of which then death occurs. And it's -- it did for my mom. She was 52. Because of the cause of msa is unknown and I truly believe that living that close to the landfill -- is a cause. If you oppose this landfill for any reason, just know that you will be saving many lives and it could have saved my mom if it wasn't there. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> my name is reverend maryanne childers, I'm a resident of harris branch. My husband and I have been there since December of 1991. We love the community. We are very pleased with our neighbors and the beauty of the area and our -- are very committed to seeing that the health, property values, the quality of life of our community is -- is protected. Thank you so much, Commissioner Davis, for your comments. We appreciate your support. And we appreciate your willingness to fight for us. I have a neighbor friend, a woman that I have known for over 30 years, who lives on
>> [indiscernible] lane off of springdale road. She says she has stopped walking because neighbors across the street from her, next door to her and kind of cater-cornered across from her who live in the smelling distance of the landfill have all developed cancer. She's not sure that the landfill is responsible for it. But she's unwilling to take any more chances. When I am out walking in the evening, sometimes the smell is so putrid and so offensive I can hardly wait to get back home. That shouldn't be. We the citizens of Austin and Travis County and harris branch and the surrounding neighborhoods really have charged you all with the responsibility and the duty to protect our health, our property values and our well-being. And we are expecting nothing less from you. We are calling on you to -- b.f.i. Is asking for 75 feet. Do you understand how high that is? Do you understand how offensive that will be? What a tremendous blight and eyesore it is? It will be? We are asking you to take that into consideration on our behalf. We are depending on you. We are expecting you to protect us. And say no. Thanks.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> hello. I'm joyce mcart, a resident of westlake peninsula and have had my home there since 1976. I'm very in support of opposing b.f.i.'s expansion. I applaud Commissioner Davis for his comments about equity. I challenge Commissioner Biscoe who served on the equity commission. This is about equity. If you want a 75-foot wall approved, there are canyons in westlake hills. Why don't we just fill those gullies and canyons with trash and have some equity here? I have worked in east Austin. I have family that live in east Austin. We are brothers and sisters. This is not about one side of Austin. This is about everyone speaking up. This is a travesty. We have 16,000 square feet homes being built in West Lake Hills and a 75-foot wall of trash being considered for east Austin? Where is the equity? I am appalled as a citizen of this county and as a resident of this county. I live in the e.t.j. Of Travis County and the city of Austin, and yet West Lake Hills is a luxury of beauty, but it appalls me that my sisters and brothers in east Austin have to be here day after day for years opposing this. And still no solution. Two weeks ago I sent a one-page statement and I'm going to read briefly from that today. You are elected by the citizens of this county. To make a difference and to support them. They have clearly spoken repeatedly, repeatedly. They are opposed to b.f.i.'s expansion. Whether it's expansion or relocation, either way, it's a dirty deal. Be creative, you are charged to explore solutions that are not in front of us. That is your duty. That is your charge from the people of Travis County. Improve the recycling. Find a solution. We are in the 21st century. It's about new ideas. The new age, we should not be building 16,000 square foot homes, for what? And filling trash in the areas of neighborhoods and schools. Everyone is equal. Everyone has the opportunity and should achieve a quality of life and it's our responsibility not only as citizens, but particularly as elected officials to assure that that happens. Set a leadership record for trash reduction, decrease landfill demands, create quality -- qualitative initiatives to improve existing recycling and composting programs. Who best can speak in support of our environment and support of a resident's clearly expressed needs than you, the elected officials of Travis County. By the very nature of being elected, you serve as a voice, the voice of this community and the ones who can take action and make a difference, whether you are the final decision makers or not, you do have influence. You are being asked to exercise that influence and to do it consciously, ethically, responsibly. So please exercise that voice and oppose b.f.i.'s landfill expansion. The citizens have spoken. Thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> good morning, judge Biscoe and Commissioners and county attorney. My name is glen rodgers, I'm here in support of all of the Travis County and Austin residents. I grew up here in Austin. And I have experience working in local government and I have a very great interest in making government work more efficiently and effectively. And to work as well as it can. I have started my own personal efforts. Some of you may have seen my name in some letters that I have sent to the Commissioners and my little project is called the accountability project. I want to make the county and the local governments here more accountable to the citizens. I would -- I observe county government closely and want to express my concerns about the disturbing trends that I have seen and that involves failure to stand up for those who need help most. Those are the citizens of east Austin. While I don't live in east Austin, I have family and friends and other people who are very close to me who live in east Austin, affected by the things that the Commissioners court has some control over. Things like this landfill expansion, things like the -- the rapid and unjust taking of properties and foreclosures of people in east Austin that are much greater rate than those in -- in our west Austin neighborhoods. The recent failure to fight the creation of the fuel storage near the elementary school and this attempt to justify this agreement of the expansion of the landfill against the interests of the neighborhoods are just examples of these disturbing trends that I have seen. I encourage all of our elected officials to stand up for the interests of all of Austin and I urge the Commissioners court today and the county judge, sorry, the county attorney to give us help and not give us excuses. Thank you. Which clap.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> ms. Rodgers, ms. Rodgers, do you -- do you think that people in eastern Travis County are losing their homes at a greater rate than anyone else? If you do then you need to go talk to our tax assessor collector because that is not the truth. Statistically that is not the truth. I mean I don't -- I don't want to get into that with you, but we've gone over that before and the foreclosures that we see, we see them each month, are not homes. That is not happening. It needs owe the only reason I wanted to let you know that is because there are all of these t.v. Cameras here, that is not an accurate statement. There are people -- there are some people in this community that are losing their homes, but it is not in any particular area greater than another. We have been assured and we have all seen the statistics and numbers that is not the case in east Austin. Not to say that there aren't some people that are not having their homes foreclosed but I just for the -- for the sake of being on record, that is not the case.
>> I would like to for up with that comments and you are right, it's not homes, but it is property and these are properties that belong to people. Thank you.
>> okay. Good morning, my name is --
>>
>> [indiscernible]
>> okay.
>> good morning, everyone, my name is kelly brazil. I live on a ranch on cameron road approximately about a mile from the dump. My parents started building on this property when I was just a glimmer in their eye. So I've actually lived my entire life out that way. I just wanted to express some concerns that I'm having with having seen my entire life the changes what have gone on out there. Trash on the sides of the roads, dump trucks going way over speed limit. My mom's bounds to have a heart attack before too long screaming at them at our gate to slow down. They are taking roads probably they should not be taking. There's a lot of smaller county roads out that way. They are not flying down 290. They are flying down all of the local roads. They are causing more wear and tear on the roads. Damage to the roads. Damaging our cars when we drive on them. City and county are not being responsible in coming to pick up trash on the sides of the roads. I believe there's a couch down at my parents' gate that has been down there about six months. How would you like to live with that. Not only are you living next to the dump, you are living amongst all of the trash as well that's flying off tha:q trucks. There's no responsibility being taken in cleaning up after it. I don't know where b.f.i. Is when they should be coming cleaning up on the sides of the roads. Buzzards, we have cattle on our ranch, we have seen massive increases in buzzards that have gone -- feeding at the dump grounds, flying around our property. They are attacking our calves when they are born. There's a lot of other things going on. There's health issues, also. My mom has asthma problems. I'm having difficulty breathing. I have notice over the years. I encourage all of you if you have not been out there, to drive out there. From 290, cameron road, samsung, one of the largest landmarks that you see in that area is the dump. That's just appalling to me that here is Texas hill country, supposed to be beautiful Texas hill country that's all that you see is this huge pile of rubbish out there. You know, it used to be a safe place. I have horses, I used to ride horses on the side of the road out there all the time. The dump trucks, I can't do that anymore because they fly by and I'm not willing to break my neck right now on the side of the road out there. Used to be a peaceful country community and there's a lot of building going on right now I know. All of the land behind my parents is being bulldozed for the development of property. Who is going to want to live amongst all of the trash and see that dump off in the distance. Talk about property values going down, why are they even bothering building out there when people probably won't want to move out there. Any realtor is going to have to give that information. What is that over there? That's the dump, that's what you are moving out by. I don't understand why they are even doing the building out there that they are doing. I encourage all of you to go out there and look at it, take that into consideration. When you drive along the road beside the dump, they have sprayers going that are spraying pesticides I'm assuming to keep the fly population down. Well if the wind is not blowing in that dregs, it's blowing back on all of our property. A health issues, trash issues, animal issues. There's a lot going on. I hope that you all will consider all of that. Because I think that -- it does not need to be continuing. Maybe some of the other counties that are dumping there can take on that responsibility. I don't know. But just -- it needs to stop. So that's it. Thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> we have seats available. Two seats available. Otherwise either these are our last three speakers. If you have higher to give comments please come forward.
>> I'm the executive director of Texas campaign for the environment, I live in precinct 4. I wanted to -- to come today, you have heard from me before. But I wanted to show you this open letter, I'm passing around the full text of the letter, all of the signers. We have more than 70 signers to this letter. These are all residents of Travis County. African-american and latino who oppose the agreement with b.f.i. We have sheriff greg hamilton, we have councilmembers cole and martinez, we have former councilmembers alvarez, thomas, and lewis. We have reverend joseph parker, reverend sterling lands, martha cotera, jeranimo rodriguez, many community leaders urging you to reject this deal as the residents and other community leaders, including the Austin neighborhood councils voted this week they represent 74 neighborhood associations in Austin. They have voted to oppose this deal with b.f.i. The city of Austin has voted to oppose this deal and join in the fight. We want you to oppose this deal and join in the fight. We have heard the promises that b.f.i. Has made in 2005 they promised to run a better operation. Those promises are unfulfilled as you have heard this morning. The odors are still terrible out there. And when we're talking about odors, it's not just, you know, let's spray a nice air mist. And make things go away. We're talking about nauseous gases. Noxious gases, impacts on people's quality of life which are very serious. Even with all of the legal bells and whistles of this agreement, all of the good lawyering, a new majority on this court could extend the time deadline. You folks have a negotiated an agreement but it's an agreement that the community doesn't want. They want you to do what's right and stand and fight. Expansions have been fought before, they are being fought now by brazoria county, by the city of pearland, by guadalupe county, by harris county, by cameron county, by webb county, by the cities of avery and del rio, and palmer, by independent school districts, all of these entities and many, many more have fought landfill permits even though they weren't the deciding factor. But they fought them and most of them have -- have won concessions from those in the fight or defeated landfill permits in the fight. We want you to stand with the residents and show some -- some gumption in all of this. We have a solution ahead of us. We want you to embrace that solution. If you vote to approve this deal, you not only weaken the case against b.f.i. In the perming process, you weaken the case against waste management as well. And if one or both of those get expanded, we continue to be in the situation of having way too much landfill space and having way too much landfill space, especially at landfills that do not compost, that do not recycle, undercuts recycling in this community. We want the green collared jobs of recycling. We want to conserve our resources, but when you have too many landfill companies with too much space they undercut each other and they make it more difficult to recycle because it's cheaper to landfill as they cut their prices. If we want to conserve our resources, if we want to create those jobs, we need to control the problem landfills, not give them green lights to expand. Thank you.
>> [ applause ] judge Biscoe, I have issued a point by point statement in contrast to what you have been putting out in the community. I believe you have negotiated in good faith. I believe you are trying to find a compromise that you think is the right thing to do. But at some point as an elected official you need to think first and foremost is this a deal that this community backs? And it's not.
>> I would love to see that. Three things. All right. Three things. You and I have disagreed on the position that the city of Austin took. I have a copy of the resolution they passed right here, I have copies available for whoever wants to see them. What the city said was that they oppose the application as filed. As filed is 2018. They direct the city manager to formally work with Travis County and the Texas commission on environmental quality, tceq in seeking and planning a permanent closure of both subject landfills by November 1, 2015. That's the resolution, whoever wants a copy of one.
>> there's more to that.
>> there's also the second provision.
>> with Travis County and the tceq in seeking to raise and enforce the operating standards of the subject landfills as long as they remain open.
>> no problem. We have been trying to do that, the last five years. I let you speak. A couple other things. Here's a simple question. If in fact tceq grants the expansion up to 2015, are we better with the agreement as proposed with the protections or without it? That's what it boils down to. But
>> [indiscernible] saying the obvious. What in the tceq responses the 35 pages that I read several times there's not a single word in there to lead any reasonable to person to the conclusion that if Travis County had objected they would have turned it down. They rely on capcog even to shorten it to November 1, 2015. That document speaks for itself, 35 pages from tceq, not from Travis County. The other thing is I have -- we're on record as opposing waste management. They have asked for 20 years in addition to what's there. My position has been for the last five years we ought to try to get both of them to close at the same time November 1, 2015. So we are faced with facts that we don't control. My position was how do we get both landfills to close as soon as possible in response to a request from various residents. We didn't just happen upon November 1, 2015. We negotiated there, b.f.i. Started at a much longer period, we started at tomorrow. We worked our way to that as a compromise deal. Then the question was how do we get tceq to buy into it? That wouldn't have happened without the city of Austin and without capcog. So this is a five year effort basically. And what we have before us today is how do we give the county more enforcement lever? And there's no way to do that in my view except by agreement. That's why we're here today.
>> the point is that the permit as filed is a 75-foot expansion. The neighbors were willing to discuss a 10 or 20-foot expansion. They are not willing to go along with a 2015 deadline if it means 75 feet. And that's what Austin opposes. They are going to take party status. They are not hanging their hat on a 2015 deadline. I have spoken to the authors of the resolution. Councilmembers leffingwell, martinez and cole. They all oppose this agreement. The city is not part of this agreement. They are going to oppose this landfill expansion. We've had some exchange about this. I think that you are miss interpreting what the city of Austin's position is.
>> where is --
>> speak for themselves. The city council is not the Commissioners court. It speaks through its minutes. You want to know what this court's position is. Don't look at something that I said. Official records and official documents you look to. This is the city council. I'm not saying what the city council may do tomorrow, but I am saying what the city council did on may 17th, 2007. That's memorialized right here. As part of the official record at the city of Austin.
>> we were there the day that that resolution got passed. When they mentioned the date, we got all upset, worried that it was being interpreted as she said. We got in a dizzy -- a tizzy, they came out in the foyer and said no. I had misunderstood it. That they are in direct opposition and will be there so --
>> they further instructed toby futrell to explore how to get rid of the landfills by 2015 whether they had space left or not.
>> that's the agreement. Mr. Macafee.
>> they said that they wanted to get waste management as well as b.f.i. Out of there by 2015. Waste management may have enough space to go --
>> that's our position.
>> no, no,
>> [multiple voices]
>> yeah, you are not reading it the way that they wrote it. And the way that they communicated it to us that day at the meeting. They said not only were they going to oppose -- they were opposed to any --
>> [multiple voices] they were opposed to any landfill expansion and furthermore if those people are still out there landfilling in the year -- November 1st, 2015, get them out of there, even if they have space left in the present permit. That's what they were saying.
>> judge, if you are misconstruing what the city --
>> I'm not there.
>> I'm saying what if --
>> I was not down there. I didn't ask for any interpretations. Simple -- there's simple language in this -- just a page and a half. There's not a whole lot of room for misinterpretation.
>> they say they oppose the proposal as filed.
>> as filed is 2018.
>> there is no date on a permit.
>> that's my point.
>> we have agreed on that from the beginning. There is no date. In fact
>> [multiple voices]
>> as long as they wanted.
>> there's a special provision in 2015 now.
>> it is unenforceable.
>> that was not there when the city took their vote, either.
>> clarified it would have been. Sounds like we did not. We did.
>> the resolution, I think it's true that the resolution does speak for itself. It says that the city of Austin opposes both wmi and b.f.i. And that is the crux of what that resolution is. That they are unambiguously opposing.
>> but it says as filed.
>> that's right. As filed. That's right. As filed --
>> [multiple voices]
>> it was our point to b.f.i. Also. We said we want a specific date November 1, 2015. When we talked about quantity, the macafees remember these conversations, the quantities are uncertain. If you take in more waste it's shorter. If you take in less waste you gain in time, right? November 1, 2015 doesn't change whether you bring in a whole lot or very little. The residents encouraged me to negotiate that point. We all wanted the next day as a date. We couldn't get that. So this is compromise. But let's say no matter what tceq does, the question then is how does Travis County get in a better position to enforce that? And we have got four ways to do that. That's what the agreement today is all about. If there is a -- if there is an -- right now under the current perm, residents understand this, under the current permit b.f.i. Probably has to 2009 or 2011 depending on the quantity brought in. That's if we do nothing, if tceq goes away tomorrow. The current permit. So the question is what in addition to that should be granted? B.f.i. Filed for 2018 when we started negotiating. They were asking for more time than that. The 2015 as a result of capcog more than anything else and the county and county tceq now is at November 1, 2015 as a result of a special provision. Okay. If nothing else, residents, this is not a crystal clear matter. It is not like Travis County could have told the commission we don't want b.f.i. To expand, don't do it period. There's rules, regulations, a tceq history you all educated me about when I got involved in this thing. I never said hey I know landfills. We got involved in this because we were asked to help out on performance standards. Not closing the landfill. After we got heavily into it, it occurred to us that, hey, we ought to try to negotiate landfills moving from northeast Travis County and finding green fill sites elsewhere. So this whole negotiation, this evolved from -- from bad odors, debris, on the road, to when can we get these landfills out of here. I have said recently, I will stop after this. The big fight is waste management that asked for 20 or so more years that recently acquired a 200-acre wilder tract so it has plenty of space. So they are not backing down from that and that will be another fight and this county is on record as opposing the waste management application period. On this we didn't say we support the application. We said we won't object to it before tceq if you don't for more than November 1, 2015. I thought it was reasonable. I still do.
>> they didn't change the size of their box, judge, they just gave you a date. They want 75-foot. They didn't change that.
>> in addition to --
>> [multiple voices]
>> who knows --
>> 6.6 million cubic yards available to an additional 10.6 million cubic yards on top of the 6.6. So not only is the box the same. But also the quantity is the same. The permit allows for a 25% increase in daily capacity. In the amount that can be brought per day.
>> we believe certainly that you undermine the position that you all have already taken on the waste management landfill because it's on a land use basis that you do that. Here you are going to give your next door neighbor the land use of being able to do that. Judge, I'm not that used to being in this situation.
>> the leader in this by state law is capcog. Capcog is officially on record as saying incompatible use kicks in November 1, 2015 for both landfills.
>> that makes no sense!
>> that was based solely judge on your testimony at capcog. They asked you because you have been so involved in this so many years, what do you think, you told them that so --
>> do you think that these nine other counties, nine other small counties that are sitting there with the 3 landfills in Travis County picking up waste there, and disposing of it. Would they vote against their residents to protect Travis County? I sat there and chatted with them about this very issue more than that one meeting, probably 12 to 18 months. We are part of the scac advisory committee.
>> the question is are you going to vote with your residents. That's not the question of them. How are you all going to vote with your residents.
>> the question is after five years I'm going to support the agreement and as long as b.f.i. Asks for no more than November 1, 2015 I will support that. I will stand --
>> [indiscernible] under the current waste management permit, under the current permit, waste management can get to 2015 another beyond -- or beyond. That's my position, it shouldn't surprise you, that's been my position for the last three or four years.
>> and the box size change maybe -- had the size changed maybe we would consider. I don't know that was your position, I don't know where you are coming from judge, I really don't
>> [multiple voices] the box size has not changed.
>> talked about this numerous times.
>> my position hasn't changed. Your position changed.
>> if we wanted to get about 2015 why didn't the box size change, the amount of the landfill space. The amount of odors that you get is totally depends on how much you put in. Twice as much trash, twice as much odors
>> [multiple voices]
>> the landfill has been there one year less than we have owned our business out there.
>> how long have you owned your business?
>> 1980.
>> 27 years.
>> that's correct.
>> if the landfill has been there 25, 26 years, the old etc. That degrades, right? And emitts gases is where the odors are coming from.
>> no. If the odors come from poor management of the landfill, not the age of the waste. If they are --
>> the waste that goes in tomorrow does not generate the odors that you all have been complaining about.
>> yes it does.
>> yes
>> [multiple voices]
>> if they are not put in a small working face, if they are not covered immediately, that's when you get your odors.
>> [multiple voices] alternate daily cover --
>> I will go with you all to b.f.i. And talk about those operating standards. We have talked about them in the past.
>> it hasn't worked.
>> hasn't worked.
>> I'm sorry to cut you all off. Yes, ma'am.
>> my name is
>> [indiscernible], I live in downtown Austin. I have been working with these --
>> hold on a second ms. Schnieder.
>> all letters from you from your constituents opposing this agreement.
>> do I have these already?
>> no you don't. Those are all new. Sorry to cut you off. Being set up to work with this --
>> I saw -- I sell real estate in Travis County. My company is Texas reality. Reality -- Texas realty. Listening to this discussion, I do a lot of real estate contracts. Part of the contract is that you have to know who you are dealing with, how tight to make the contract. Sounds like b.f.i. Is very happy to make all sorts of claims, but they don't honor them. I know if you walk down an area like sixth street where there's a lot of dumpsters, there you have your fresh garbage, one or two days old, it wreaks, fresh garbage can reek's much or more than old garbage. I was in the abu musab zilker pk posse. We tried to promote growth downtown and on the east side. There's been -- downtown organization we are trying to promote protecting our water on the west side by proposing growth on the east side. So here are a bunch of people who in good faith went along with the government and moved to the east side. There was a landfill but only supposed to be there a few years, not supposed to smell, which it wouldn't if it was well cared for. I don't know why we are negotiating with a company with a proven track record of always breaking their word. Why would you give them anything. Instead to match what we have on the west side, which is mount bonnell, we are going to give them a mount bonnell of trash and I'm sure they are not going to stop until it's full. Why are we giving them -- if they are supposed to stop in 2015 why are we giving them enough space to go for longer than that. There are alternatives. I think that we need to work harder at the alternatives. This is so easy b.f.i. Comes in, they say oh, we'll take care of everything, no need to worry. But in toronto they have taken note that one third of their landfill is compostable. They are putting compost in every neighborhood. Compost doesn't smell if it's properly managed. You can be sure when it's in your neighborhood everyone in the neighborhood makes sure that it's properly managed and then at that point your trash becomes part of your wealth. And they are all eating the expensive food that the rich people here get at the farmers market everyone in toronto gets it. There are alternatives to the -- behe -- betrying the people who went along with the government, like they were supposed to. The road was pulled out from under them. That's why you live on the west side, people can't get away with that on the westside. Anyway I sell real estate it's hard to tell people you go to the eastside because you know what happens to people on the eastside. Thank you very much.
>> [ applause ]
>> my name is joyce best. I want to talk a little bit about the effects on the community of the 75-foot expansion. Commissioner eckhardt has already mentioned the increase in garbage intake per day that is talked about in the letter from the executive director, tceq. That's an increase from just over 3,000-tons per day to over 5,000-tons per day. That's a big increase. A big increase. The earlier statements that b.f.i. Made to the court that the 75-foot expansion would provide about 9 million cubic yards, powerpoint from however long ago that was, and whichever one it was, now as Commissioner eckhardt pointed out we are at 10.6 million cubic yards. That's a 17% increase, just on paper. Think haven't even gotten into the air space yet. I'm not sure about the information we were given about the -- about the calculations that the engineers make about what the capacity actually is. If we can have a variance of 1.5 million cubic yards. And -- in the figures. In 28 years they planned to fill 2% of the landfill, in the last four years they plan to fill 38% more. How pleasant should going to be for -- is that going to be for the neighbors? If the expansion is granted, it's not going to be a landfill any longer, it's going to be a sky fill. That's just the way that it's going to look. You should actively oppose this expansion. If they are filling new lined cells right now, which is supposedly state-of-the-art in as far as technology for landfills is concerned, if they are filling new lined cells now, and there are still odors, what is going to happen when they are piling more garbage on top of the old technology? The cells that are not lined. How are you going to mandate any type of controls for the odors? Because it's technology that is old. And tceq doesn't really address many of those issues. You have heard a lot of comments about the children who have suffered the odors at the school. I have been told that one school district official told a parent that the school district couldn't take the position on the landfill expansion because that's a political issue. How sad is that? Is that the way we are going to have to have everyone look at this, as a political issue rather than something that affects people's lives every single day? I'm asking you to rethink your position and to strongly oppose this 75-foot expansion. Thank you.
>>
>> [ applause ]
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>> what you don't say is that bfi has been Marching down here for how many years. It must and critical point to get your approval or they would not have spent so many years down here. And I think you misrepresent the court's position by the statements that you have made. And also, all of the provisions that you have put into the contract I see as more or less a sham because because of future court. It's like you're hiding behind hang the community whereas the community has clearly spoken they don't want it. So that should raise some eyebrows. Then for you to say how it's just going to close because of your document, when on the same hand, a future court would have the power to change their mind when you are long gone. So to not mention that and act like it's iron clad agreement is really crazy and a sham. Also, we have had agreement. Look at the fines and penalties? They agreed to close. Well, that is now forgoten. And is that mentioned in your contract about that? Will you get those fines and penalties that they were going to stop, the fines were not be incurred because they were leaving? Well, who is going to enforce that I don't see you standing up to enforce that. The contract was a wonderful place to put those fines back in. They are not there. So, old agreements get forgotten. Also, mentioning the time of combining your decisions with waste management seems to me a, legal, should be on fragile ground, as much trouble as we have had with both landfills, to decide to act on to me down the road makes no sense. This undermines any future effort and sets up a problem for the future. Our region does not need two additional landfills. Why would the county set up a situation where both want to move at the same time? I can't think of a worse scenario to set up, which you have done with this.
>> you favor waste management being there 20 years in addition to the current time?
>> no. I think both, you should have, you should try to stop the expansion of them both and to give one a prize for catching up with waste management is ludicrous. They don't deserve that. Why are you giving them that? We are at a cross roads. We have worked together many years. In fact, if you just look at judge Biscoe, how far just you in particular, we go back 20 years. There's a lot of water under the bridge. One of my favorite documents is one of yours, judges, opposing the landfill expansion back in the '90s. You worked hard then to stop expansion. I and the citizens have worked for years trying to help the county draft an ordinance to move toward zero waste. I find it instand sanely unfortunate that we may be crossing path. I'd like to reframe the path to get us on the same path again. I'd like to look from an end perspective. Do we not want to arrive at the same destination? Don't we all want to reduce, reuse and recycle smit's easy to say that it's do but when push comes to shove, what do our actions say? Bfi and waste management have many fear cards that I believe they are pounding the county with. There is a concert the effort to change the debate to fit the landfill criteria. Do you see a problem here? There is concerted effort on the part of the waste industry to create a dialogue based on their needs and wants. On the other hand, there are a few citizens with no time and money who desire a goal for zero waste. It's up to our politicans, to you, to rise to the occasion and help our community be better. I challenge you to go beyond the contract to stop both landfills from expanding and stand firm in a commitment to reducing waste. Remember these facts. Methane is about 20 times more harmful than carbon dioxide when it comes to globally warming. This makes the dumping of food scrapes in landfills one of the most damaging things in landfills in the country. The county needs to be controlling the cost of spraul. We need a reality chuck. It's a solution to keep feeding the landfill machine or set up a system that looks at reality. People come to Austin because the quality of life, we want our new citizens to locate in our area, in east Austin. Who can speculate what the effect has already been to the massive landfill neighborhood? Neighborhoods have continued to develop but at reduced prices and with landlords looking for subhouse ing to get tax relief. There is a sick paradigm developing in northeast Austin that should stop. Because of the landfills first time buyers are taking advantage of and manipulated. This needs to stop. The answers are not rocket science and don't need studies or surveys. Our county does not need to endorse any landfill expansion say no. Do not let the landfill operators scare you into scarcity, because there are none. The neighborhood, environmental leaders, and the people of color have spoken. Stop what you are doing. Drop the con --contract and oppose bfi.
>> (applause)
>> yes, sir.
>> my name is james daniel and I live in howard's branch and I'm opposed to the landfill. To me it's kind of simple. Seems to hey we --me we do have a choice. When I drive, my home is close to the landfill, bfi. I drive in and out. I can kind of see. Late in the afternoon and early morning, it's kind of a low hanging cloud in the sky. And the stench is just awful. And I find myself spitting up, trying to get out of it. A few years back I was in vietnam. I was a helicopter pilot. I remember we flew all the time and we flew up through low hanging clouds, and you could see a fog. It settled on the trees and it would defoliate and kill the trees. That was agent orange. We were in it all the time but we didn't pay it any attention. As you know, the government has paid billions of dollars because of the results of agent orange. We couldn't smell it. We just didn't know. Seems like we in kind of the same position here. We can smell it. It's there. So what choice do we take? Little kids can't play at school. Some people have been sick. Do we wait until ten people , five people die to make a change? If we had just known about agent orange in vietnam we would have done something, but we didn't. Looks like now we know something. So I think the choice is if we have a choice , what is the answer? Thank you.
>> thank you, mr. Daniels.
>> (applause)
>> good morning, judge, commissionrsers. My name is mark macafee. I'm going to use that as a segue because the closest neighborhood to this landfill, a girl was born. She had a mall di that only occurs one in every 150,000 people. The it is related to pesticides and they think agent orange perhaps. So we do not have a list of all the chemicals that were dumped in the old landfill area or really in my opinion an accurate map of where they all are. You know, for 25 years now the citizens of northeast Travis County have had to endure unbelievable stench, illegal roadside dumping, depressed property values, and worst of all, increased chance of several different types of cancers and life threatening ailments. Enough is enough. Landfills are dangerous to the health of people. Bluebonnet trails elementary school is lev than a half mile from the site, a daycare less than a quarter of a mile. Thousands of home within a mile. You are elected to protect us from these kinds of things, not to help the corporations get their expansions. Almost every environmental in Austin is against the expansion. The crit council voted unanimously to oppose. Why is the county not listening to the people? Why is the county not listening to the people most affected? The neighbors of these bad actors. At the two public meetings held by the county, not within person spoke in favor of the deal unless they worked for the corporation. Then they did. At the public meeting held by tceq not one person spoke in favor of a landfill expansion unless they work for the corporation. We are unanimous out in the neighborhoods. We oppose any expansion of these landfills. And this deal, we oppose toltally. We believe that the bfi and waste management drums are hydrologically checkeded. The city of Austin hired an engineering firm to assess the liability of sending waste to this area and it was determined that because of the nature of the amount of hazardous waste dumped in the '70s and of the poor way in which the landfills have operated that it would be too dangerous to send the waste out there. Why now would the county make a deal to allow such a bad actor to continue to operate and a bad deal at that? This is the same size expansion they originally wanted. When the process began, that explains why the landfills are so open to this. Judge, you asked the question as to whether this body has any power in the matter. I would venture to say, I can't even thick, this is how long we've been coming down here and how long the landfills have been coming down here. I can't even remember the attorney's last name. I just know him as paul now. And you know, when you know him on first name basis, he has probably made enough to send at least four kids through ivy league schools with no assistance, no scholarships. One of the biggest problems that we have in fighting these expansions is the feeling that it is inevitable that they will win the response to inquiries by interested citizens, response by the county has been to play on this emotion and the false pretense to try to undermine the opposition. This fight is not over like it has been portrayed. We need only one vote on this Commissioners court to change. We need one person to change and vote along with Ron Davis and sara eckhardt who have stood totally in our corner. Commissioner Gomez, Commissioner Daugherty and judge Biscoe, we need one of you, only one of you to change and vote with the others to oppose this landfill expansion. You say that you are looking out for our best interests by getting a closure date. That is saying like the end justifies the means. It should not. We the neighbors are ready to fight. I know that we came to you all for help but I reckon now that we have seen what kind of help you are giving we really don't want your help anymore. Thank you very much. Oh, yeah, Commissioner Daugherty where do you get off telling us about foreclosures on the west side? If we had located our business on the west side in 1980 like we have on the east side in the preferred growth corridor of this county, our business would be worth minimum double what it is today. Maybe triple. And maybe more than that. Don't talk to us about foreclosures on the west side zng I'm not talking to you about foreclosures. I'm respondinging to somebody talking to us about foreclosures mark, and it was an inaccurate statement. It is a statement used in this community to activate people on something. You know what I'm talking about, mark. I'm trying to make sure that we don't have those kind of fights in this community because that is not what is going on. Yes, the values in east Austin have increased dramatically. Why? Because what you have now is you've got people going over and driving up the appraisal costs in east Austin. Do you think that's any of our fault? That is not--
>> not out by the landfills. Our appraisals are not going up like y'all's are.
>> good point. A comparable business west of I 35 the dirt value would have increased, would have been more valuable ultimately.
>> I don't know if that the right, Commissioner what we are hearing now is that if you have a home in eastern Travis County, in some parts of eastern Travis County, that the appraisals have gone up much greater.
>> at some point perhaps. Perhaps you could provide the Commissioner with the per acre valuation for green pastures and opposed to city of Austin. That would only be a comparable.
>> they wouldn't be a very comparable one to locating seven miles west of the capital as opposed to seven miles east of the capital which we did. If we had located seven miles southwest of the capital that would put us somewhere in the range, we would be in deep West Lake Hills. We would not be outside the loop. Yes, seven and a half hakers with a going business of 25 years would be worth a substantial amount more. And I would say no less than double. No less than double. I'm sure. Of our business.
>> thank youmy name is evelyn remert and I'm a property owner out there north of the landfill. Property has been in my family for over 66 years. I would like to ask mr. Daugherty and ms. Gomez, have you of had to shut your door while you were trying to eat your lunch or dinner? I have. Have you had to go out on your property and pick up trash bags by the, big bags full? I have. And also, I want to address something that was stated a while ago. Someone , I think judge, I think you said this, that bfi has enough space to operate as they are now until 2009 or 2011. 2015 is four more years. So why do we need to have a 75 foot expansion? Why can't the expansion be brought back down to the amount of trash that's been taken in now? Taking into consideration, yes, there's more people in the area, but yes, we need to do more recycling instead of putting more trash out there. So why can't we talk about, okay 2015, that sounds good. I mean, that is realistic because I know they can't move tomorrow. I wish they could. But I know they can't. But why can't we talk about let not increase the amount of trash that's going in there. All this gives them a chance to do is to bring more trash in from other counties. Why do we want to do that? Another this thing I would like to have you think about, this 75 foot high mountain on top of what is already there or with a will be there when it's full in 2009 or 11, that is another seven to eight story buildinging. Can you imagine a mountain of trash out there that is that much higher? Why do we, why would we as owners, property owners or homeowners out there, enjoy looking at this every day? And I would like to ask you too, do you look out your front door and see a mountain of trash every day? Do you see garbage trucks crawling on top of those hills? Do you see the equipment that is running? Do you hear it? No but I do, and I see them dumping big 18-wheelers of trash. And some of the odor is coming from that because those things have been loaded at another location where the trash is already rotten, and they are bringing it in and dumping it. Well, have you stuck your head into your own trash after the garb and has bit sitting in the sun for a while and smelled what it smells like? It's not going to smell too good. Another thing I would like to say, this contract, I don't see that there's any incentive in there for them to start locating a green field site now. And they haven't, apparently, started looking for one up until now. If they have, they haven't been very successful, or maybe really working on this like they could if there was some incentive put in there. Another thingoid like --thing I'd like for you to think about, there was an article in last Friday's paper about the Williamson county ers who got into a contract with waste management, and they are lawyers told them that it was valid at the time. And now there is doubt as to whether that contract is valid. So if we go into several years from now and we get down to 2015 and some lawyers decide, okay, this is not a valid contract, they can operate as long as they want to, then where are we? So I'd like for you to think of some of these things before you make the final decision on this contract. But I really would like for you to think about the 75 feet. That to me is that should not be. And this area is going to be in the center of some very big things that are going to be going on out there. There's going to be new shopping centers and everything located at 130, which is right east of that. So why do we want to have a mountain of trash sticking up out of the landscape right there where all of this is going on? Thank you for your consideration of all of these things.
>> thank you.
>> (applause)
>> ms. Macafee.
>> my name is anne macafee. Many of you may not know that Margaret Gomez and I go way, way back, back to when we were both much younger. I hazen to add that marring rateis still a lot younger than i. But my aunt was Margaret's long time campaign treasurer both when she ran for constable and when she ran for county Commissioners court. Tex anna had a long history of fighting for the underdog, as Margaret will certainly attest to that one of the things that she would be fighting for right now, and she could even come back to haunt some people here, but if she were still around, believe me, she would be out fighting for the people who live in northeast Austin who have to endure bfi and waste management. One of the things I have marveled at recently, I don't know if any of you have seen waste management's television commercials, but if you have seen them, you would think that they were the most wonderful, most environmentally sensitive organization that ever existed. But if you enter waste management criminal, the word criminal with waste management, into your google research, you will discover incredible number of listings. They have a bad history of not living up to what they say that they will do. And in fact, they do a lot of really bad things. So don't trust either bfi or waste management. And I hope that Margaret knows that there is somebody watching her right now and it's my aunt tex anna kahn who is hanging in thrnmpt she will be, you know very well that if she were here she would be doing some heaviy duty lobbying because she has a long history of doing that too for lots of worthwhile causes.
>> no doubt. No doubt that we would have sat down and talked and had a have been respectful exchange of ideas.
>> right. But it would have been a strong exchangeshe could be very stron.
>> right.
>> I still look forward to visiting with her, and did, several times on several issues. Most of all, of course, being very inclusive anne --and make sure that deaf community was part of the structure so that they would not be left out of whatever this county has to offer. But yes, I always looked forward to her, visits with her. They were very aggressive discussions but very respectful.
>> right.
>> okay. Thank but she could come on strong for lots of really worthwhile issues.
>> absolutely. Thank you.
>> yes, sir.
>> steve motley, represent giles holdings, land horn of sunset forms. Judge and Commissioners, I have come to appreciate the countless hours you spnnd on this issue and the considerable impact on your workload. I have not been up here very much to give you information you already know or have already heard, but today I have a couple of points that I think are something you haven't heard and I'd like to get into them. First there is an argument about capacity, how much capacity is needed in this market and is this landfill important for the region to make it through the point in time which we have agreed to close subject to this agreement, which is 2015 did--2015. There's an acircumstance that recycling can make up the gap. Let's take a look at what's being done. Tds is doing more of this than anybody else. Without question they are the leader legally. They have been working at it harder to develop this business opportunity for longer than anybody else. When you look at their annual reports, they have diverted, after all these many years of working, in the past five years, no more than 4.4 percent of their incoming waste stream. After a long time, that's it. 4.4 percent. That's diverted. Now, let's remember what recycling really is. It's not source separation at the curb , and it's not diverting material at the landfill. It's putting the waste beneficial use and returning it to commerce. By that standard, I'm not sure that they have recycled that much. A lot of that diverted volume is brush and yard waste and there appear to be, what appear to be acres and acres of finished goods of mulch or compose or whatever. There is at least a fair amount of it, if not a lot of it, that doesn't appear to have been returned to commerce yet. Whatever they have done is a laudable achievement? You bet it is. Is whatever amount they are selling a good thing? You bet it is. And is this a meaningful answer to the landfill capacity problem facing the county over the next eight years? You bet it is. Again, they have been working hard for a long time and they are able to diverse 4.4 percent. And to think that this level of effort is an alternative to mowmore landfill capacity in the market over the next eight years is a triumph of hope over experience. Governments have, local governments have supported recycling with, to get it to this point, with a lot of money and the will to spend a lot more on it hasn't been apparent yet. Meanwhile, allied waste is the largest, one of the largest recycle lnrse in the state--recyclers in the state of Texas. They recycle off-site with no impact at sunset farms. They ship every bit of it to a paying customer within days, returning it to commerce. We get criticized at once for too much truck traffic and motor enough --and not enough recycling at the landfill. Is that thoughtful criticism or something else? Our electricity production. This is recycling that doesn't generate any additional truck traffic. We are returning the waste to commerce in a different form. We generate enough electricity to power every household bastrop county.
>> where is that sold smhad.
>> into the Austin green power grid.
>> and how many waste has been recycled--
>> why don't you, if you don't mind, let me finish.
>> all right, I'll keep the questions.
>> just hold that and I'll answer it if I can. For the fayeette power plant to produce that much electricity, I figure it would take about a hundred railcars of coal, we avoid coming down mopac, coming down rite by my house, going to fayeette, adding its impact to greenhouse gasses. So I think we're doing our share of recycling. I'd ar that ours has a more profound effect on greenhouse gas emissions than anything else going on around here. Now I'd like to answer that question posed by the red sign in the second row. Our application has been criticized by all of our oh poniants for trying to go to too high above sea level and that is going to be the high spot in Travis County. Well, the tds permit in effect right now, you see it in attachment 9.6 of the permit, landfill completion plan, allows a maximum elevation of 830 feet, compared to the 795 we're looking for. 830 feet. That is taller. Now, do I think that is too high? I'm not saying that. But I don't know how 795 can be a terrible thing and at once 830 feet is an exemplary facility. I'll take your question now, exister eckhardt, if I can. Judge and Commissioners, thank you for listening.
>> okay. Can you tell us the amount of recycled materials, the amount of di version from the waste streams that allied has accomplished?
>> no, but it's not 4.4 percent, I'm ready to--
>> unless you can, well, also, 4.4 percent of how much they are land filling is an apples to oranges comparison. That is why I'm asking for an amount rather than a percentage. Like tonnage, due big yards--cubic yards. Do you have have any stat on how much overall recycling, how much waste has been diverted by allied?
>> four to 5,000 tons a month.
>> okay. Will you all continue those recycling efforts irrespective of this landfill status?
>> I think she asked a different question, brad. She asked how much are you diverting at the landfill.
>> no, that is not what I asked.
>> recycling.
>> he answered it. And it is your intent to continue those recycling efforts irrespective of the status of the sunset farms landfill. Do you also intend to continue recapturing meth ane irrespective of the status of the landfill?
>> we are obligated.
>> okay. Thank you.
>> I have a couple of questions. Lately I've been doing a lot of due diligence as far as listening. I think we need to maybe set things in order, in order as far as the historical nature of how we got here to where we are today. Some folks may not realize where we've come from to where we are today. Former Commissioner david samuels, who has passed on, came to my office, and he complained about a beneficial use per mitt that was being south by I get at the time it was probable called cap tec. He was concerned because they did not want that type of activity in the black land prairie setting. At the time I didn't really know too much. I was new kid on the block. This was like in 1999. Brand new Commissioner, didn't know too much. But from that conversation, we started in looking for ways, how we can make sure that the quality of life in any area in Travis County is achieved. Of course, we later were able to get satisfaction out of that. And of course, doing what we had to do, that permit was not issued. And looking at that, how do we prevent these things from happening do our eastern Travis County. Then we had to deal with others that had similar beneficial use permit type settings. One was, I guess, the Texas organic folks locating off of tiller lanes in that area there. So, it just occurred to me that we needed to look forward, and the court needed to get involved in looking at an ordinance. We first brought that through the help of our county attorneys. This court came up with an ordinance. But during that process, landfill persons not even being a part of that at this time under this ordinance, but needed to be included because of the hardships, and I'm saying 290 and anybody else, that were being posed on the residents of eastern, northeast Travis County. Of course, we look at the language in that particular ordinance, and we included landfill language that looked at setbacks from schools, setbacks from residents, buffer areas, all these kind of things. We went through defining a lot of terms. We went through a process. That's what I want you to understand, it was a process that we went through. And of course, later the landfill language was stripped out of the ordinance by the will of the court. I can't support it but the will of the court said hey, we don't want the landfill language in. Let's strip it out. But we end up adopting an ordinance to govern major facilities and compost operations, beneficial use situations and all this other kind of stuff. We end up adopting a solid waste ordinance that governed minor and major facilities, minor facilities meaning maybe like a recycling station or something like that. But any way, that ordinance was adopted. But during that interim time, which we evaluated and looked at the situation, it came to our attention that not only can we need to maybe address this as far as the landfill situation was concerned, but we also had to look at the possibility of how we could relocate. And this is how the green field information, all that stuff came out. And we worked hard, diligently, we even set $100,000 aside in the budget to assist as much as we can to help locate and close your shop. And this was a number of years ago. A number of years ago. And nothing has, still hasn't transpired. Now we are up to an agreement situation. And I would definitely look at supporting you to go and get with the cap car and ask them to help you find a site other than where you are located now where by you will not be able to harm folks. And I'm saying outside of Travis County. Because it appears to me that no one wants you here in Travis County because of the things that you are doing, according to testimony, for the health, safety and well being that we have heard here today. And I believe this just as the cap car members of other counties have diligently said no we don't want them in our region if I'm an understanding this correctly, they are going to fight for their residents. I think Travis County Commissioners court should fight for the same reason as they are and have demonstrated. So I just want to let you know that I am definitely going to oppose you as I have in the past. It's nothing new here. I always oppose you.
>> any additional comments?
>> I'm going to wrap up, judge. Hold on.
>> okay. Hold on, judge.
>> but this is not time for, you made your statement.
>> let me conclude. Let mow concludeall right. Please conclude, thenof.
>> thank you, judge, for letting me conclude.
>> please conclude.
>> as I stated earlier, my position hasn't changed. I will oppose you. And I will assist as much as possible for you to locate somewhere in another county in the cap car region. Thank you not in travis.
>> any final words?
>> I'm a resident of the area.
>> your name?
>> fabian martinez. I'm been here before on the same issue. You know, the lives of the people that live in the area are affected in a lot of ways. I can tell you about mine personally. My children used to go to blue bluebonnet elementary and I took them out of there this year and put them in a school farther away because I was concerned with the orderers and the gasses andel smell. Us as adults, we live in the area but go to work and leave the area for a while, eight, nine hours, whatever we work, and we come back. These kids, they live in the area, they go to school in the area, they never get away from that area ever. They are there all the time. So me feeling that I had to protect them I had to get them out of there. I drive much further away now. It's a hassle, basically, because I have obligations with my employer to be there at a certain time and I have to take extra time to do these things. And I don't mind doing them. These are just some ways it's affected my life. Also, unlike some of the well dressed people in these rooms, I don't get pide --paid to come to these meetings. Have I to take time off from many things just to be here. I don't mind because I think it's an important issue. As a hispanic living in that area, I have to tell you there's a lot of hispanics I speemspeak to who feel like some of the members on this court are letting us down, not really sticking up for who they need to be sticking up for. They are not looking out for our best interests. Some of the people that help you guys get electioned, help you guys get into office because we think you are going to look out for our best interests. In this case, if these are the problems that are going on with the current levels that are being taken in, why is it going to get any better if you double the amount? Or whatever that amount is. If you increase the amount being taken in? 75 feet is 75 feet. Why not keep it to a level. We have compromised. I compromise by taking my kids out of the school and taking them further away because they continue the business the way they are running it. The citizens have compromised for a very long time. They are supposed to be leaving by, what, 2009 sit, the original permit? They are not compromising. They are asking for more. 2015 is more. And they said they were going to be out by 2009. There is no compromising by them. It's just how much more they are going to get, how much farther can they milk this thing before something finally gets them out of there. That's all I have to say.
>> thank you, mr. Martinez.
>> (applause)
>> now, this item is post for action in number 27. I have committed not to take action today. I notified ms. Schneider and some other residents we would have this back on the court's agenda next week for additional consideration. So I move that we close the public hearing, which is number 3, and I intend to open up on 27.
>> judge, I will second that. The only thing that I wanted to clarify for the question that he raised, let's say that we voted to close it today. When would it close?
>> under the current permit, they have a quantity capacity, sometime tweem 2.9 and 2.11, depending when they reach that quantity.
>> the closing date would be when, again?
>> 2009, 2011, somewhere between. Depends on waste flow.
>> okay. I just wanted to make sure that we understand these things because it's not like, you know, we vote torque let's say we voted to close it today. It's not tomorrow the doors don't close because in the meantime, every one's garbage has got to be picked up every day. This week, including this week. And every day until closing day in 2010, let's say. So that garb --garbage has to go somewhere. It can't stay in our backyard. I understand that, but if it is closed where is it going to go? I suppose it is going to go to tds.
>> ((inaudible))
>> I listened very quietly to everybody. The whole time. Please allow me just agent bit of respect here--a little bit of respect here. This is part of my thinking process that has to occur here. And so, I need to know some of these dates, definite dates, so that I will understand the ramification of my vote.
>> in order to--
>> hold on just a minute, Commissioner.
>> hold on.
>> and so, I need though--to understand these issues. They are not easy issues. And so, you know, when I have talked about fairness in east Austin in the past, that hasn't been easy either. Some of the things that people of color go through in asking for fairness and justice are not easy things. And sometimes we have to go to court in order to get some of those things like fairness and justice in education and in housing. Why in the world would we need to pass an ordinance for fair housing? For heaven's sakes. And to have to go to court for those things. Obviously, these decisions are not easy or everybody would make those decisions very quickly and without having to go to court. So please, you know, understands my position of trying to process everything that everyone has said for six years, as Commissioner Davis said , we've gone through. So, I need to ask all these questions and I need to understand very clearly what the ramifications are of each action that I take. And yes, I think that we need to quit generating trash. I think I have already started that process. I take my bag with me when I shop. I don't take plastic bags home. And I recycle almost every week. I throw out trash twice a month and try to really minimize that. But we all need to get into that habit if we want to quit generating trash and keeping landfill operators in business. We're doing that. We are keeping them in business. And so, obviously, we all share in trying to make this very difficult decision. And it's not for or against people wherever they live. It's trying to make sure that every house in Travis County has a place to send their trash to. And every time that we have subdivisions come up wherever they are in Travis County, each house probably has about two and a half people per homes, each person no matter what age generates seven pounds of garbage per day. So that garbage has to go somewhere. And I really prefer not to send it out of the county into somebody else's backyard. I would prefer that we work diligently and work together to try to find someplace that is suitable here in Travis County. We need to keep our own garbage in our own backyard because normally the practice has always been, because there is no justice and fairness automatically in society , when you send it outside of the county, it goes probably somewhere where poor people live. I don't want that to happen. And so, anyway--
>> what about the kids in this yir?
>> please allow me some respect, mr. Macafee. I respected you when you spoke. Thank you.
>> Commissioner eckhardt.
>> in order to elucidate all the fakes--facts, I'm looking at the permit draft and trying to update some of the numbers under the summary technical report. It says there is 6.6 million cubic yards of capacity left as of March 2006. What is the current capacity left under the current permit?
>> I don't know the exact numbe.
>> can we get you on the microphone there.
>> judge, commission, brad dugas district manager with all I'd waste bfi. I don't know the exact number today, Commissioner eckhardt.
>> okay. If you can send it to me by e-mail.
>> we can do that.
>> also, I'd also like to know what the cap on the current rate of acceptance is.
>> today I don't believe there is a cap on the current rate of acceptance. There is an average that's coming in, somewhere in the 3,000, 3500 ton a day run rate.
>> 3,000 to 3,500 ton? Okay and that is the average?
>> yes, ma'am.
>> do we know the range?
>> range being?
>> the high and the low?
>> it could be as high as 5,000 tons on one day if there is a huge soil job, or it could be 3,000 on the low side.
>> okay. So 3,000 to 3,500 tons per day is the average.
>> average.
>> you're saying a range of 3,000 to 5,000?
>> could be, yes, ma'am. There is no cap, again, on daily intake to go in there. It's just an average range that we project off of, and that the how we did our calculations for permit amendment.
>> okay. And so under the draft permit, the initial rate of 1,440,000 tons per year, what is the current annual rate? Sorry?
>> I was just looking at our engineer. Our current intake is actually, and this is where a lot of things get confusing because we convert yards and tons. Our current intake is right around a million one, a million two a year, somewhere in that ballpark.
>> tons?
>> tons. That actually equates to in yards closer to a million eight to two million yards of consumption in a 12-month perio.
>> okay. Just for the sake of apples to apples, we're talking 1.1 to the 1.2 tons per year currently.
>> that would be my best recollection, yes, ma'am.
>> okay. Thank you.
>> just for the record, you are mr?
>> brad dugas, district manager for allied waste bfi.
>> okay, any other questions for mr. Dugas? All in favor of the motion to close the public hearing? Show unanimous court.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, October 24, 2007, 18:30 AM