Travis County Commissioners Court
October 9, 2007
Item 14
14. Consider and take appropriate action regarding the revised grant requirements and application to the Texas department of criminal justice for the state jail community resource program. Purchasing office items good morning, judge, Commissioners, I'm carol coleberg, we are here today to seek approval from the court to submit the revised proposal to Texas department of criminal justice to operate a substance abuse educational program at our community justice center, otherwise known as travis state jail. And I believe danny and mark were here last week to explain that the state had come back and requested a revision, the main difference was it was going from an actual treatment program to an educational program. And we've maintained our same strategy by asking for what we really need in order to do an educational program. One of the reasons is -- counseling and education services, we have a really great infrastructure for providing educational programs, we can't afford to dip into our current resources because we are trying to just maintain educational programs for our misdemeanors here from our county courts at law. We have asked for everything that we need to fully implement this program out at the state jail.
>> do you know of any of the state -- state -- any of the setting that have something comparable to what is being looked at here, especially with the education that's being rendered? What has been the impact of that if we know of someone that's doing something similar? Because this is education more than the actual treatment aspect of it. Is there any way to look at this and say that it should yield what?
>> there are -- I think the data, most of the studies on education versus treatment are inconclusive and not as much good data to say education works from what I am aware of, the way it is to say the way the treatment works. I think that our own experience, which is more an next dote take -- anecdotal. It's a much longer program, though. It's a six to nine-month program with the heavy after care component. As far as this, what t.c.d. Has suggested, I'm not aware of any research that suggests -- if you look at the performance measures, they are really -- they are just focusing on what happens behind the walls of the prison. This is a program that begins and ends at the -- at the prison gate. There's no -- they deleted the term after care, there's no follow-up. We will try to do something. We will try to use some of our own resources for after care in partner with cpi, but I'm not aware of the research there that says that programs like this are effective.
>> okay. I guess that I was trying to look for something to -- to lean on. To actually look at -- at some type of performance measure after this program is initiated and of course I think there are other persons in the state that are doing something similar to what we're doing here today. To try to -- to try to get the educational dollars in place for drug treatment. But again just questioning how do you measure the performance. What happens after that. That's basically the question that I was trying to get an answer to.
>> I think the research is much more clear on treatment. Again I don't know if you had a chance to read the revised performance measures, but they cut them from five to three. They are all about who starts and who finishes.
>> but what I'm saying is the impact of the effect, though. I guess the cause and the effect scenario. Here it is, this is the effect of it. Does that really have measuring -- categories to really look at --
>> not that I'm aware of. I don't believe tdc has anything we can do --
>> thank you.
>> we can look at whether you relapse or recidivate in Travis County.
>> that we can do, not for their performance measures but for other own. Because the other programs won't be measuring that, they are just using the three that they have given to compare us. We just want to compare apples to apples, but for our own program we would be looking at recidivism, relapse is harder to measure, but we can try to capture that. We would be looking at that -- they deleted after care, we will try to provide some continuing education. We will try to provide some -- from preimposed case management me release and post release with cpi. They will not be an actual subcontractor because of budget constraints, they cut the money too much. But we will work with cpi and I have talked with them about working or massaging our schedule. So there will be as much as we can put together from the Travis County side, still after care, there will be case management, we are trying to make the best to what they have given us.
>> is participation in the state program mandatory or voluntary.
>> it's going to depend on how the court's work. I think what they are assuming is that it's going to be mandatory. I think what they are assuming is something like the old shock probation kind of a deal where people would be sentenced to the program, go through the -- through the 30rbg 60, 90 day program, come out maybe on probation for a little while to then finish their conditions of probation. I believe that's the way tdc is envisioning it. We haven't had a chance to talk yet to the Travis County judges about how they would like to utilize that.
>> if they approve our grant application, as long as we meet their requirements, we can add whatever we want to implement it, right?
>> absolutely, yes, sir.
>> seems to me part of the strategy ought to be to convince participants that part of the education process is for you to understand that once you get released there's specific things that you need to do.
>> oh, absolutely, yes.
>> I mean I -- part of this is motivation.
>> right.
>> sort of turns a lot more on the individual's will, motivation to keep doing the right thing on the outside. The lesson of the drug court is that you have to expect certain number of relapses but the overall success rate really is pretty good, but the presiding judge really does have to understand, you know, you are not going to be able to talk to just one person and life just changed dramatically for every one of them. Some of them there is, but --
>> well, judge what you are saying is that if -- if there's a mandated court order, from -- from the judge, it's okay you -- you have to -- to go up under this particular education process. Is it -- is it also what maybe include, I don't know. I'm just -- would that include that -- that they must do certain things after release. Can it go that far?
>> normally for state jail offenders it can't go that far.
>> all right.
>> normally when you get released from state jail you have served your sentence. What I'm saying, though, is that while we -- while you're in custody and part of the program that we are implementing for the state, we make the program ours, too, and we try to persuade the same individuals who -- some of whom ought to be, some of whom will be Travis County residents, in our program will be Travis County residents.
>> that's the one that I'm referring to with the Travis County, though.
>> I think ought to be to try to achieve the mindset for the participant to be motivated to keep doing what we teach.
>> okay.
>> realizing that -- that, you know, as -- as probably unrealistic to expect 100% success rate.
>> the other thing is that we probably ought to try to put together as many volunteers and organizations, et cetera, to work with these individuals after release as possible. At 0 or very low cost. So -- so we take the state's program and do what the state is mandating because it's the state's money, but on top of that we do what we can.
>> right, exactly.
>> and many in our community already working in this area and it may be possible to kind of piggyback what they are doing. The other thing is from time to time I do run into all kinds of volunteers who say that they are working with small groups, would gladly expand if they had almost a source of, you know, participants.
>> some kind of referral source.
>> I know it's additional work to try to get that done. But -- but seems to me to make sense if they know their shortcomings in the state program, then maybe we ought to spend a little time to try to augment that on our own. That's what --
>> that's why our treatment proposal was sky high. We are trying to meet those needs. We have a little bit of a precedent because the ctc program was like 100% voluntary. Nobody has ordered into that. They do come to after care. They have been -- some of them have been successful. It can be done while there's not a lot of research to indicate there's nothing to stay it's extra indicated nothing to say it will hurt anybody. It may plant some seeds that will develop later. Winter planning to have a continuing education things for them when they get out that we will partner with the community for. That's a major difference with our plan I think from the other ones around the state. Which makes it a little more expensive.
>> we are looking to growing our drug treatment. Just because the state, itdoesn't mean that we are slowing down?
>> it does? Carroll is nodding.
>> as far as Travis County and our ctc program, I mean yes, we are -- we are developing that and having, you know, after care and it is going full force. But on this one, I mean -- I mean we are somewhat limited to education, especially the prerelease. Post release you know we can -- like mark was saying, we want to work with the cpi program, but we are just -- have been cut down on the funding, so we can't guarantee that they are all going to receive those services.
>> but -- in that regard, though, I think the judge brought up a good point. Something that has been mentioned earlier. Earlier discussions. Before the court. And -- and that is -- that is there's -- there's an initiative now that -- they have come up before the court before, reentry type of situation, the initiative now, a new entry I think they are calling it, whereby they are able to provide the -- the identification, they look at housing, they look at all of these other services, just a whole array of services that they offer inmates that are leased and -- released and it would be good I guess judge hopefully you mentioned that, that the person that we already have on board are those that are also seeking to provide those kind of services for those persons that are released. Are tied indirectly to what we discussing here today. Afterwards. To make sewer that this is what -- what this is all about, this is an educational thing. However these persons are coming out, they participate in the program, all of these other kinds of things. We plug them into those groups that are already out there and -- and doing some things. For us. In that effort.
>> you just hit on a while ago, that is that this community is blessed by having so many of those groups that are -- that are prepared and -- and ready to assist as needed so I think that -- that there's where we go based upon this program that we have here is that we rely upon those volunteers, even though we don't have the funding ourselves, we go look for it, appealing to those groups that already exist and can come in and assist with this because I agree once you have this -- the education program you have to have follow-up. You have to have someone working with those individuals so we hope to do that. Also, I would like to bring up that -- that as we discussed last week, in more detail, than I thought we were going to discuss, but I'm glad that we did. There will be a negotiation period, even though we submit this, there will still be an opportunity for negotiation so that if in fact our proposal happens to be not in accordance with what they want, we will work with them and perhaps even reduce the scope of the program to make this work. We feel like education, getting the dollars for education is very, very important. Because we also know that this could be a stepping stone. This could be a -- this could be a process whereby we are able to receive other grant funding down the road. And so we are looking forward to -- to this proposal and are hopeful that we can negotiate and move forward with it. We do also want to make -- one last mention and that is that this document that you have in front of you is one that's still working because there -- we are in contact with them and as they change things mid stream here for us, came out with the totally different r.f.p., then we are having to respond to it, I think when did we turn it in, mark?
>> the 16th.
>> the 16th. We don't anticipate any major changes, but there could be a few things that-- few changes. We had to come here today because it's due on the 16th.
>> let me ask you this. I'm disappointed that the state scaled this back. Undoubtedly this could be a stepping stone for us to pick up. The discussion regarding the mayor's mental health task force I view substance abuse as a mental health ir, educating someone is not nearly as effective as treating them. To that end, are we looking to do any kind of cost simulation. Do we have the ability to do any kind of cost simulation of the effectiveness of treatment even education, even if it's merely education on -- on the cost effectiveness of it in regard to recidivism rates. So that we can convince the state grow this program. The health of our community and the cost to take care of this burgeoning mental health problem.
>> this may proper a pilot for that or spring board for that.
>> perhaps also the mayor's mental health task force, since this is part of their purview should be roped into this so that we can prove up to the state this program should be expand, it should be expanded from education to actual treatment.
>> I think that would be a great spring board to use the commitment to change program. Probably we could use other smart and some of the other ones that we really wanted to make sure of a county-wide project of it to say this is cost effective to the state. I think the two -- the good news in this, this is not an evidence based proposal that they have given us. We are trying to respond as best we can in an evidence supported way.
>> I applaud you for that. I am so thrilled y'all are just wonderful in that regard.
>> so we are using evidence based curriculum, hiring the staff we know that we need to do it right. We do want to link up with all of those resources that you are talking about, because of the commitment to change program, we do have connections in changes of people places that you were describing and a variety of employers, you know, work source and with -- with project specific employers in the community that are aware, there are some benefits to hiring, Texas breaks, some other things, tax breaks. We put through the commitment to change program, hopefully we can capitalize on those to help with this. You are right, we can't do it by ourselves.
>> no.
>> thank you for setting a higher bar for us than the state would set.
>> you're welcome.
>> there's one more component to this program that the state is interested, they would like for these offenders to go on probation. Now since it's been reduced, the actual funding for a couple of probation officers is not in there, but I think the intent is still in there. That will become important when we do -- when we do meet with the judges about the sentencing. If they could be on probation, of course, that would be -- that would be beneficial. And we are talking with -- with -- with criminal courts administration now about meeting with the judges to discuss this.
>> has the state indicated what kind of turn around period they need?
>> I believe that -- that they will make their decision everybody is probably thrown off a little bit. Late October, early November, I think they would want us to be up and running probably in January.
>> but the court will have an opportunity to see the specifics --
>> absolutely.
>> -- prior to grant approval?
>> yes, sir. Because what I would expect now is another round -- well, maybe this time a real negotiation rather than, you know --
>> we haven't had one
>> [laughter]
>> they just told us they changed the rules on us. Hopefully we will have a negotiation and then a chance to come back to you and talk about what we've negotiated.
>> also I guess to see there are several groups of course that interface with -- with the inmates that are released from the cjc. It will be good to know exactly, I guess we can get this from hhs, we will never -- will be the -- the keeper of such organizations, I mentioned one before, but I know there are -- I heard a couple of them mentioned there from -- from your presentation but it would be good to have an array of those particular organizations that -- that will assist or will be of an assistance to make sure that -- that those subject matters that were mentioned earlier are addressed. To all kind of tie this in together and have it in one big lump setting. So I would like to see that, also.
>> Commissioner, I think that would be the way they would want to go here. We don't want to go out and ask for assistance, but we would hope that we would be able to come back to you, the court, as well as to the community and we and you will see this as a -- as a work that we have done together.
>> exactly.
>> and that we let you know that and the community know that.
>> okay.
>> criminal justice planning is currently working on a reentry matrix, which I think is similar to what you are talking about that will have all of the different agencies that help with reentry of vendor.
>> move that we approve the --
>> second.
>> filing of the revised grant application.
>> seconded by Commissioner Davis. Any more discussion? All in favor? Farce that passes by unanimous vote. Thank you all very much.
>> thank you.
>> appreciate it.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, October 3, 2007, 18:30 AM