Travis County Commissioners Court
October 9, 2007
Item 12
12. Consider and take appropriate action regarding the following liability claim recommendations: a garden city boxing club, inc. - deny; and b is the claim by paul clahasey - deny.
>> [one moment please for change in captioners] we're recommending denial of the claim.
>> this matter is clearly on the door steps of the courthouse. Do we need to chat with legal counsel in executive session?
>> if the court has any questions, we would be happy to answer them.
>> I do have questions about -- I have a few legal questions, I think. This request came to my office and we put together backup and sent it to the requester, and as a result of that the claim was filed. So I do think under consultation with legal counsel. When we discuss the other executive session matters. Okay? Thank you. There's a b also.
>> there is a b.
>> any questions about a? Am I the only one familiar with the history of this other than the backup? And my familiarity comes from the fact that the open records request came to the county judge. I, of course, forwarded it to legal, as I always do, and so there's some other steps that have occurred prior to today. Are you mr. Clahasey?
>> yes.
>> okay.
>> the claim is for damages to mr. Clahasey's vehicle at construction site on buffalo gap road. He was waved through by flagmen to go through the construction site and as he entered the construction site, he passed our grade-all vehicle, which is a large vehicle having a work cab on the far side away from the truck. And we have pictures if you would like to see what the vehicle looks like. As mr. Clahasey pulled through the intersection, he pulled behind the unit and our driver, thinking he had gone through the intersection because he was waved through the intersection not to make maneuvers in the intersection, continued working and struck the vehicle. We're recommending denial based on the fact that there was no negligence on our driver's part operating the vehicle. This is a quite large unit and there's limited vision, and the flagman waving him through, the intention is to go through the intersection, not to remain in the construction site and complete maneuvers. We're recommending denial.
>> yes, I came -- I was driving my vehicle on buffalo gap. I came up to the flagman. He waved me into the intersection. The area where I was trying to go is the driveway across the street from where the man was working. I pulled up on a 45-degree angel next to this grade-all. I proceeded -- I looked behind me to back in the driveway and he moved his vehicle and ran into the front of my truck when I was at a dead stop before I could even back up. They had two flagmen there. I was waved into the area. I was at a dead stop. I didn't feel as though I should be negligent and I've done everything, I waited for the flagmen, they had the flagmen there, they had the driver there. All I did was -- I was at a complete stop trying to back up with two flagmen. I was told I was okay to come into the area. I don't know where my -- you know, I feel as though you all told me you were going to fix my vector you told me to go get an estimate. I got an estimated, submitted it to you all. Then I asked if you needed anything else and they sounded like you all were going to pay me. The policeman at the time sounded like there was no problem. That it would be taken care of. It was a really minor dent. I was actually even going to not even bother with it, but they said they wanted to file this report, and I'm trying to follow up on it and because they said they wanted -- it was their responsibility to file this report and I felt as though it wasn't my fault and I should be getting paid for it or fixed, my vehicle fixed.
>> did you tell the flagman that you intended to actually stop in the work area and was it you were pulling into a driveway?
>> yeah, there's a driveway on the other side of the street. They were digging a ditch on one side and I was trying to back -- I was going to don porter's house that was directly across the street from where they were doing the work.
>> did you tell the flagmen that's what you were doing rather than passing through it?
>> no, but I'm driving a 1995 diesel direct injection f-350 pickup truck that is a very loud automobile. It's not like it's a very quiet gasoline motor vehicle. And you had two flagmen there and you waved me into the area. I didn't see -- but I did not tell the flagman I was backing into the driveway.
>> you said someone instructed you to go get an estimate.
>> yes.
>> did you get more than one estimate?
>> no, I asked if they wanted me to get, like, three estimates. She said it was so minute problem, a small -- under $1,000. I was surprised that the estimate came up to be that much, to be honest with you. But I think I'm living in the '70s or '80s. I haven't really gone out to deal with those kind of things. I went out -- I thought about buying a new truck until he looked at how much they cost too.
>> so you received one estimate?
>> yes.
>> Commissioner, if I could answer on that, any time that someone calls in and asks for a claim form and wants to initiate a claim, you know, the process is to explain our process, which is filling out the claimant request form and supplying an estimate. After that the claim is received and an investigation is done. So at the end of the investigation was the result of the -- of what you have before you.
>> okay.
>> so the -- our driver is saying that when he went through the work area, he thought mr. Clahasey was proceeding down the road or what?
>> our driver -- there's the part that's the driving part and the working part and he was in the front of the cab. As the claimant drove past identify, actually it was in front of the machine. Our driver was in the back of the machine. And with the two cabs, once he saw him pass -- yeah, he went on through the zone as they usually do. And started moving further down the ditch line.
>> so mr. Clahasey didn't see the grade-all once he went back and our driver didn't see him.
>> well, I'm assuming he saw the grade-all.
>> I think he saw the grade-all. Our driver assumed he had passed through the construction zone past his vehicle so he proceeded to go on with work. Not realizing that mr. Cla mr. Clahasey had stopped.
>> did you go by the grade-all --
>> just ask one more question and I'm done. So we had two flg men there. Don't they tell the driver, our driver when to stop, then when to start back?
>> the flagmen on either end of the construction wave traffic through, but they don't -- to my knowledge, they don't tell our driver to stop or start back to work.
>> seems to me that our flagmen should have -- one reason a flagman would be there would be to tell the driver of our equipment when to stop. Then when it's safe to start back. But I guess if we know the driver of the equipment can't see, that's why we have two flagmen there, I guess. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding that. The role of the flagmen is what?
>> to stop traffic while the vehicle is maneuvering in the construction zone and to allow traffic through at a point that it's safe for them to pass through the construction zone. Generally if someone is going to remain in the construction zone, I think a prudent approach is to ask the flagmen or inform them that they are going to be doing something in the construction zone and to get approval. So those types of actions can be taken. But with 90% of the traffic waved through, they proceed through the construction zone and pass the other flagman. But I'm not aware of the requirement to stop our vehicles. I think there's caution that's used and I think our driver did use caution. He stopped long enough to see mr. Clahasey passing him, but not expecting him to back behind his vehicle.
>> I didn't back behind his vehicle. Excuse me.
>> I guess I'm not faulting our driver as much as I'm wondering why we would pay two flagmen to be there when their role is not to prevent stuff like this. What do we think mr. Clahasey could have done better?
>> I'm sorry?
>> what did we think mr. Clahasey could have done better to avoid the accident?
>> I think he could have informed the flagman that waved him through that he was going to be turning into the area, or he could have sounded his horn as he passed the vehicle. If I were going past a large construction vehicle and turned near or behind it, I think I would want to make sure that that operator knew that I was in the vicinity. And again, this piece of equipment is very loud. It's not something that's like an automobile or a pickup truck. It's a loud piece of equipment.
>> how much was the estimate?
>> 893.
>> $893?
>> 893.76.
>> may I ask a question? Just so I can get the traffic pattern right, we've got flaggers on either side.
>> right.
>> so a flagger waved him through and he passed the grade-all and then backed in? Is that what happened?
>> what I did was I passed the truck and the grade-all and I pulled up on a 45-degree angle to back into the driveway. I was at a 45-degree angle on the road and I was backing into the driveway. I was actually looking behind me before I could actually back up, the grade-all came and hit the front of my truck.
>> so you were flagged -- you pulled up at a 45-degree and I e looking over your right-hand shoulder to back in.
>> yes.
>> when the grade-all clipped your back or your front? A front. Front fender. Front passenger fender.
>> okay. So you back in like this and he clips you.
>> yeah, I wasn't backing, I had moved forward, stopped, put my vehicle in reverse, I looked behind me and when I was looking behind me, he ran into the front fender of my vehicle.
>> okay. So you hadn't pulled back any?
>> I hadn't moved. I was at a dead stop when he hit me.
>> okay.
>> my vehicle was not moving at all.
>> do we agree with that? Is there agreement his vehicle was not moving at the time of the accident?
>> we have no reason not to agree.
>> pardon me?
>> we have no reason not to agree. I mean our drivers didn't say he was moving, he just had pulled in front.
>> somewhere in the backup that was the suggestion that maybe -- maybe that was fault.
>> the Travis County sheriff's department responded to the collision. I spoke to the deputy, and in his opinion, he said both drivers were at faulted. Our driver for moving without making 100% sure there was clearance and the claimant for being that close to a large piece of equipment without notifying somebody that he was going to make that maneuver.
>> I got permission to come in because of the two flagmen.
>> but it was also -- I'm just telling you what the law enforcement officer's opinion was, he did not use good judgment to be that close to a piece of equipment to make that maneuver. So in his opinion, he placed responsibility on both drivers, which is where we come in to comparative negligence.
>> that's what I'm reading, Travis County sheriff's office responded to the collision. The deputy advised -- he considered both drivers to share responsibility. Would you agree with that? Seems to me like what we ought to do is -- hey, if it's a little bit of both fault, I mean can we settle and how about we pay for half of the 893. Would that be acceptable for you, mr. Clahasey? I know you would like to have it all paid for, but if we really have a sharing of -- it's one of those things that happens. I mean --.
>> yes, sir, that -- I was hoping -- I didn't realize how -- I didn't really feel as though it was my fault. I thought I was waved into the area. I was just trying to back into my friend's driveway. I was over there to help him out.
>> second the motion to pay half of it. Half of the claim. Any more discussion? That would be half of the 893. If this passes. This is just in the spirit of -- looks like both sides could have done better. I do think if we're paying two flagmen to be there, I think they have to assume greater responsibility for not only our equipment but also citizens who are driving by. I mean otherwise we may as well leave the equipment driver on his own. Any more discussion?
>> well, to that point, was there sufficient time for a flagman to have alerted the guy and the guy driving the grade-all to let him know if he saw you pulling in front of it to tell the grade-all guy stop, stop?
>> I'm not sure we can answer that particular question, but there is no -- no form of communications other than waving.
>> then I'm assuming that the flagmen are also watching traffic to make sure that there isn't through traffic through this same section of roadway, so it might require additional staffing on road crews to actually --
>> more than two?
>> well, there's one watching traffic going this way and there's one watching traffic going this way, right?
>> right.
>> I think if there was radio communication, that might be the solution to the notification or alert, being able to alert the driver.
>> but if the flagman told mr. Clahasey when to come through, there had to be a signal to our equipment operator to stop.
>> I'm sure he is watching the flagman also.
>> same flagman should tell the equipment operator when to start back. If I'm driving on a street and there is a police officer there and he stops and I stop, I don't start back when I think it's clear, I start back when he signals me to start back. I'm suggesting that the flagmen ought to have the same responsibility. And if we have two out there, then they really ought to be a lot more responsible.
>> we might be moving towards paying for this whole claim here.
>> [laughter]
>> I mean I do think it is one of those things that happened and I think mr. Clahasey needs to be paid for at least half of this deal. I think that would be fair.
>> there wasn't any citation issued, it was just an opinion of the sheriff that investigated the accident. Is that correct?
>> we'll work with t.n.r. On prevention.
>> and he said they both had some responsibility.
>> the recommendation is to deny, and if this motions passes, it will be to deny 50% of it.
>> compromise.
>> compromise.
>> any more discussion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Congratulations, mr. Clahasey.
>> thank you.
>> it's not the $873, but it's half of it.
>> yes, sir.
>> this is Travis County, so you are looking at -- I wouldn't expect that -- to pick that up tomorrow. Looking at a week?
>> next week.
>> thank you very much.
>> thank you. Good luck to you. We will call up 12-a in executive session for a brief with counsel.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Last Modified:
Wednesday, October 3, 2007, 18:30 AM