Travis County Commissioners Court
April 3, 2007
Item 17
17. Consider and take appropriate action on request of plainview estates subdivision to fund water improvement project in the subdivision. We were advised -- by ms. -- ms. Santa barbara that there are five or six speakers who wish to take about a minute apiece, on this matter, then we will call up staff, okay? Can we do that. Commissioner Davis, you wanted to --
>> thank you, judge.
>> we have met with the communities over a while, what we hope to here today to do is after meeting with them, they expressed their urgent need to have water, hopefully we can proceed in this. There was a couple of questions that I had to ask staff to come back with and answer and hopefully staff will give me that answer today and the question is I guess staff people -- be prepared to bring -- when you come to the table, be prepared to do two things, number one, to be at the information that hornsby bend water utility folks put fort, the amount of money the figure that we are talking about, $115,000, ballpark, I asked staff to do that because I want to make sure what we are looking at is the actual amount of money that we need to look toward funding w court's blessings on thisfundin. So as I stated and -- in our meeting we met a couple of occasions, the last occasion that we met I said listen we are going to have to find a source of funding. So I asked staff to come in and give us an overkvue the possibility of use -- overview of the possibility of using this money to fund this particular project. So we are moving I think in the direction where we want to go on this. It is to fund this -- this water project on a contract with -- with hornsby bend water supply company to -- to provide a five inch water line for -- to plainview estate folks. I'm just letting you know where we are going with this? Then the staff portion of what we are trying tgive us your full name, we would be happy...
>> ...leader of Austin interfaith. And we are here this morning to tell some of our stories what we are going through the past five or six years, we are -- we are 40 families living in plainview estates and some -- some are being without water for five or six years, other ones like myself on the risk of losing our water well. And it's been a struggle all of these years. Especially I still have some in my property. But, you know, last year, you know, almost went dry. Some of -- some of my neighbors especially the woman's, children's, elderlies are going through a lot of trouble trying to get water for their needs. And, you know, I -- we have been there for generations, our parents have lived there. And -- and most of us like myself, I -- we are income fix income tax I mean we just don't have the money to go anywhere else but to stay there and -- it would be nice if we can -- you know, across where I live, you know, they are building like close to a thousand homes, 800 something thousand dollars. It would be nice if I could just move, but there's no way in the world that I can do that. Without any funds. The struggle for me and my family out of my well we have five houses, supply -- we supply water for five houses out of that well. And this year it was -- it was almost went dry. I remember when me and my wife got married, 46 years ago, we used to go and wash our clothes in the washteria because we didn't have no washing machine. Now we have a washing machine, but still don't have no water, we still have to go to Austin to wash our clothes. And -- and we are here to tell we are here -- we are here to tell, the leaders of our parish and association we are here to tell our stories.
>> thanks.
>> good morning, my name is rosita sare. I am a member of the church andments an Austin interfaith leader. In my family, my granddaughter makes the 6th generation on our five acres, that's a lot of children running around. I have lived there, like I said all of my life. I am now without water. I have been without water since January of '06. It's been hard for myself and my husband. My husband has a rare disease called myeostenivgravis, one in a thousand people get it. More so in women than in men. It's been a struggle. Because I'm the one has that has to go up check the water with a long pipe. Check it out, if I'm at 400 gallons, I need to call it in by Monday morning, so I can get water by Friday afternoon. If I miss that, my chore on Monday, and I check it Wednesday, I'm out until the following Monday. And by then I need to go down the street to my friend's home, with 20-gallon cans and -- and fill those up and come back and roll them off and on to my small porch and ,you know, out of that I have gone out, brought a pail so I can bring in water for the toilet so I can wash whatever I need to do at home. Just basic needs. To take a bath I need to take my husband and I come up to town about 12, 15 miles to do that. You know, if I run out of water. The other chore is to load up five gallon jars, take those to cameron and 290. Probably around 15 miles, round trip 30 miles for me. So it's been a big struggle for me. I live on a fixed income. He's now disabled so we live on only about 625 a month. So -- so that's a lot, you know, 130 for water, at $65 a load. Then my gas to come in to fill up my jars so that I can have drinking water, you know, and it's -- it's just very, very hard. I can see my husband in my husband's face that he's supposed to take care of me and I'm taking care of both of us. So -- I ask of you to please vote on what we need. Thank you for your time.
>> thank you.
>> thank you very much.
>> good morning, my name is
>> [indiscernible] and I am a member of santa barbara, and a leader of Austin interfaith. I have live understand plainview estates for about 30 years. We had a well supplied water for five families, about a year and a half it went dry. Because some of us live on a fixed income, we couldn't take the chance of having another well built and then not finding water. We have five families behind me that are -- that had a well, theirs went dry. But they were able to make another well and we are lucky to find water. And because of them, they are helping us in -- and in our five families in the front we -- we have a 78-year-old, my 78-year-old mother who doesn't understand why we have to limit our water. And -- and we are having to buy our -- our drinking water and doing laundry in town and just using this water that they give us to clean house and flush toilets. Thank you. Clap clp.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> my name is
>> [indiscernible], junior, I have been a resident of plainview estates for -- since 1970. And I'm also a member of santa barbara catholic church and a leader with Austin interfaith. We -- I ran out of water probably about a year and a half ago. My stepdad has a well, property adjacent to me, and he provides water for us. We have -- I have a couple of acres there. But when we run out of water, we realized what connie was going through, some of the other neighbors because we had to carry water. And let's see. It's a pretty bad struggle. My wife and I have been going to physical therapy for a while, because our backs are not that well. Anyway, my stepdad drilled another well a year and a half ago on my property, so I can have water hopefully on our property there. And well it doesn't produce, it was a dry well. That was about $5,000 that he -- my stepdad spent for that. And we drilled close to the original well, we was able to have water there, about 10-foot deeper. But other water is not the same. It smells, stinks and smells like clay, you can't get rid of that very easily without spending a lot of money on -- on having it processed I guess. That was another $6,000 for that other well. So total 11,000 that my stepdad spent. There's no guarantee that -- that this -- that you will always have water. And -- and we are always afraid to water the yard like we used to all of these years. And -- and we had to wash clothes, too. Not somewhere else. Because we were afraid to -- to run out of water. And just hope that we can -- that we can move this project on and -- and have some running water from -- from the community, for the community. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ]
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>> then we will need staff briefly after this gentleman finishes.
>> good morning. I'm pastor fred krebbs of prince of peace church, memr au interfaith I'm representing the pastors caucus of our organization. We're standing with these people as they clearly need water. Because of the organizing that we have been doing, we have a very good opportunity to connect them to the hornsby bend utility company. In fact, in yesterday's paper the president of the company, mr. William jezura stated, as he's stated with us and in meetings, the hornsby bend utility company has glead to charge -- has imread to charge the county $115,000 to install a water line along plainview road as well as an eight inch water line on clearview drive and connect the family homes to the line. This project, Commissioners, is going to cost $425,000, but hornsby bend utility company is only asking for 115,000. That's only one-quarter, 25% of the total cost. Today is the time to take action and responsibility while we have this deal on the table. In the year 2007 in a county like travis, families are without water. And this is not only unjust, but it's unsafe and unhealthy. And I'm calling on the leaders of our county to take action so that families will be connected to water as soon as possible. There's no other issue as important as this right now for our congregations. We have a very good deal on the table and the Commissioners court needs to take action now. We thank you, Commissioners, for working with us and supporting us in this project, meeting with us, and we especially want to recognize Commissioner Davis for working with us through this whole process.
>> we got it on the agenda.
>> thank you. Joe?
>> [ applause ]
>> anything from tnr? All right: now, while we have you there, we will need to complete income eligibility questionnaires. We have a whole lot of people and we have interfaith, so who is the point person for that?
>> your honor, we have one more person to speak here.
>> could I real shortly?
>> very short because -- I think we're moving in the right direction.
>> and I would be the point person for that, to take the lead. I'm connie gonzales. Thank you. I'm also a member of the cats lick church and a leader with Austin interfaith. And I just want to tell you that I have been living in plainview estates since the '70's also, paying taxes, raising my children there. And my well was the first one to go dry six and a half years ago. So my children have been living in my house for six and a half years now without water. And we have the right to live with dignity. Just like president lyndon johnson says, in front of their children. And together we can assure that our families wit live th dignity by wate working in organization with our Commissioner...
>> ...alternative sources of funding and the resuld, 425,000-dollar project that the hornsby bend utility company has to pay for 75% of that, leaving for the county only $115,000. This cost already orinal cost; commitment. Waitare willingo help. Going up. Is now. Asked and I would like to address them now. Our septic tanks are working well and we did not have problem with them even when water from our wells was in the future, we will address it. The residents are willing to see that every household gets connected to we will support one another so that eve there is a group of 15 leaders that have been conducting group meetings, and that will be willing to do a neighborhood walk and collect the economic information kneed from residents. We ask you to act now on this deal because cdbg monies are not a guarantee and stills away Commissionerson. Families ensure that we will have water, a basic human right. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> [ applause ] we will need two of those chairs.
>> sure.
>> any two. Joe, are you the one? And ms. Fleming are you the one? By the way, completing these questionaires can take a week or longer? The shorter the better. But we may as well use the h.u.d. Approved questionnaire because we may need the information now and later anyway. Can we giveio a chance to make his brief comments, then sherri frks you have some, make yours.
>> I think sherri and I have been workogthis together, and let me just kind of set the context here. This subdivision was subdivided back in 1966 and orangely it was 12 lots, very large acreage, five acres and greater. And remember back in '66 there were no development regulations. And so we didn't give this subdivision as thorough a review as we would today if it came in, so the whole issue of water and wastewater and thing like that were kind of done on the fly. These are all wells, septic systems. Some of the septic systems are permitted, some are not. So it's a mixed bag. But what you have now is about 40 households living in this large lot subdivision. I think the water line deal is probably a good deal. It will give them freshwater. My main concern I think is subsequent to the water line to make sure that we don't create a second problem, which is the effluent. And if there is going to be a problem, that we foresee that now and begin to think ahead. I appreciate the comment on you're willingness to take care of the problem, if there are. My agency also permits the septic systems, so if the septic systems fail because they weren't -- they're not add kuwait for the -- they're not adequate for the additional water that comes in, I will have to send my inspectors come out and red tag the system. I don't want the county to supply water and then come out and red tag the homes because the septic systems are unhealthy. That is an issue we need to work together on. As we move forward. So -- and the other thing I think I need to make the court aware of is that there are other subdivisions in the county that may have been these type of problems of inadequate water and wastewater systems. I think it is important that we qualify this neighborhood as eligible for cdbg communicating even if we don't use that in this phase of the operation. Because for one thing we do as a county have a mission for providing services to the indigent in the county. We have done this in other subdivisions as kennedy ridge because of the income qualification. I think it would be a good idea to establish that fact as we move forward here. And quite frank lirks we may need -- if we don't use cdbg funding in this first phase, we may very well need it in a second phase if that's required for the septic or wastewater systems.
>> ms. Fleming?
>> I would agree with joe's recommendation. He and I have discussed that. And at a min muck I would just -- minimum I would run for you a few bullets of what those requirements might be. And certainly it's not an exhaustive list, but the minimum would be certainly that the residents would fit into a low to moderate income block grant group, which is the 46.2 percent that we talk about all the time, that each resident would have one working toilet and one working sink and that be inspected and assured. Assurance of septic tank viability, via certification or other means that the court might identify. Also that the court be aware that the cdbg rules do not allow you to expend funds and reimburse yourselves. And so the next phase of cdbg funding would be subject to the submission and approval of an action plan in August, and those dollars potentially would not be available to you until December or after, depending on decisions at the federal level.
>> if we go that route.
>> if you went that route. But those basic bullets that I just went through could be a framework for making decisions about how you want to manage this project.
>> how many pages is the income eligibility questionnaire?
>> just one paing. Page.
>> when can we get an appropriate number of pages to ms. Gonzales? Later today?
>> I can't answer that, judge, and I'll tell you why. Because if we are looking at cdbg eligibility, the survey methodology has to be approved prior to doing the survey, and we're waiting on that approval from h.u.d. We've submitted to them our methodology because were we to initiate the surveying before the methodology is approved, then the survey could be disallowed.
>> I'm not thinking so much of h.u.d. As well as our gathering the information. Because like joe, as I indicate here, there are some issues that are bound to surface later. The question would be how big are they. And so we may as well go ahead and position ourselves to be prepared to deal with it. So if we have the form, I'd get the form to ms. Gonzales later today. Whatever we need to do with h.u.d. In the event that we need to submit an application, we do, but my recommendation would be that we take from our allocated reserve the $115,000. We've got a substantial amount of money there, and I would do that rather than hit the corporations because I believe the corporations just in case we need funds later to cover some other unexpected developments. The other thing is that with north ridge acres, we ran into various state programs that were available for the non-water part of this, it might be that we need to tap into some of the other stuff.
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic]. I kind of wanted to hear -- I'm not trying to override you or anything. Believe be me, I'm not. I'm glad to see that we're looking at the amount of money. But I guess I want to hear from tnr at this point because I gave a direction to tnr to look at this 12-inch line and see if it's the actual cost of $115,000 or is it ballpark? Because I want to make sure that the amount of money that we approve here today is substantial for the service of that line. So can somebody answer that question for me? Because that's what our charge ought to do when we had a meeting with the folks.
>> let me preface that. Steve is going to address the issue spefbly about the engineer's estimate. But I am presuming that before we hand over any money to the water corporation, we're going to have a contract. And I would think that that contract would say this is a cap not to exceed no matter what the cost of the system; that our contribution is finite, which is 115, be and that we would look gate them to complete the system at whatever cost it is. Their estimate is 400 some-odd thousand dollars, and if it goes higher than that, they're on the hook for completing the project. So -- let me give you exactly what we have done to date with the construction project.
>> give me an answer. That's what I'm looking for is an answer.
>> I'm steve manila from tnr public works. Roger and I have taken a look at the cost figures put together by cash construction, be and that's pretty unique where you get the actual construction cost figure in advance of the project. So that right there helps to improve the accuracy of it. We're not guessing what they may be thinking when they're putting a bid price together. It seems to us that the amount of money that they are proposing to build this project for is reasonable, but things happen in the field. Unforeseen conditions, that sort of thing. They may see that it exceeds what the actual bid amount s there is a list of thing included on cash's bid document that they say are not included in the price. They may or may not result in a significant increase thoam. Soio's point if we're committed to 115,000, I think it can be done in that range. You're not going to see a double increase in the cost of the project.
>> okay. I got that answer. And another point that I wanted to make sure that was brought up, and I asked pbo because we've been running around here looking for some money to pay for this project, so I wanted pbo to tell me the disposition of some stuff. So I wanted to kind of hear a little bit there as far as where we are on some of our money.
>> I did want to mention to the court, you do have the status of our reserves, our allocated reserves, our car reserve. What you do not have are two items on the allocated reserve that are significant in amounts. Number one, have you a 597,000-dollar request coming out of allocated reserve to fund the may 12th election. That will be on the agenda for next week. You also had judge murr indicate to you last week or the week before that they had stopped sending our children to tyc. A rough estimate of what that may-- could cost us during the remainder of the year is about one million dollars. And you're showing about a two-million-dollar reserve balance after the earmark that are there, and we'll be glad to look at those, those earmark, but these two things are about 1.6 million, which would leave you about $400,000, which is extremely small in order to finish the rest of the year. I would suggest that the court look at the health corporation as a possible funding source for this need.
>> how much do we have? We're going to find that money. How much do we have in the health corporation?
>> go ahead.
>> the health corporation does have sufficient funds for this project.
>> it does have it for this amount of money, $115,000, there's sufficient enough money in the health corporation to take care of the need that's being requested here today, that is correct?
>> that's correct. And I did talk to the attorney for the health corporation to get his legal opinion as to whether this would be a project that could be funded. And he said yes, it could be.
>> it could be used for that. Okey-doke.
>> my thing is that we don't have to make a choice today. The research indicates that the money is available if we choose to do the project. So I think our action today would be to indicate our decision to proceed and assist. There are other steps that need to take place. We need the information that's in the questionnaire. Staff's already chatted with the hornsby bend representative. We need further discussions because typically we would have a contract before we would fork over money. Then I'm assuming hornsby bend would be the contract manager or project manager for this.
>> that's our presumption, yes.
>> the other thing is part of the questionnaire should be to help us identify any other issue that may come up. So at least we can be prepared to deal with them. The other thing is that I do think we ought to touch base with judge murr and indicate -- find out two thing. One is a more precise figure about potential cost, and two, the possibility of reimbursement from the state also. You I can't help but think that other urban counties are probably in the same situation, and I would think that we would look to the state for reimbursement. That's not to say we'll get it, but it is to say that maybe we could make a determination as to the likelihood of getting reimbursement by the state before the end of the session. It's a kind of big deal. If there's a million buck here, it's got to be a whole lot more to that in the larger counties like harris and dallas. I think what I wanted today was some indication that we wanted to proceed to health. And to be honest, compared to the other water projects that we have had, this is a small amount of money. At the same time, though, we've done enough of them to know that typically there are other issues that will surface before the project is done, and there's no reason to think we won't encounter some of those issues here, but unlike some of the other cases, in addition to having hornsby bend ready and able, we do have a lot more residents in a position to assist, so we can expedite this a whole lot more than we could in some of the other areas. There's no way to do this without getting county staff involved, but I think if county staff can really sort of analyze, evaluate the product provided us, put h.u.d. On notice that we may have an application, we may not. I just think we ought to take care of the front end and -- because the amount's right. And if we think we can get this done in a week, have it back on next week for something more specific. But I think --
>> go ahead. I don't disagree with you at all.
>> let me finish.
>> I think what residents want to hear us say today is we want to help. And we'll generate the $115,000 one way or the other. In the meantime there are specific things, steps that need to be taken before we finalize that. And we need to get the county attorney's office to expedite the agreement in this case, and I see right now tom knuckles is indicating his enthusiasm.
>> it will be a county contract or health corporation contract?
>> county.
>> I'm thinking county contract myself. But if we do is such that we can fill in -- I see your point now. I would start off with being a county contract. I just think we've got a lot more -- we'll have a whole lot more flexibility later on with corporation money if we need it. The other thing is when taxpayers talk to us they would want to know whether this is something that residents really qualified for county assistance for. So I think the specific data will give us an opportunity to answer that.
>> let me make a couple of points.
>> the eligibility is really important to have in place because then the septic tanks would be he will yibl for either repair or -- eligible for repair or replacement, is that right? That's what my understanding when was we work on the plover placeere would be more specific eligibility that would then have to occur for the specific individual homeowners. The first round is more global. When we get into doing things that are specific to individual households, we need asian more information, a little more intrusive information.
>> there's something I would like to bring up, and my point is this, I think we need to make a commitment today to provide the 115,000 for the residents. I'd like to make a motion for that effect.
>> that's the motion.
>> that way that they will not be -- I'm trying to think of the word. I can't think of it right now. They will leave here knowing that Travis County is committed to provide $115,000.
>> isn't that the judge's motion?
>> that's my motion. And I think all these other details we can work out. Now, if the source of funding has to come from the corporation, which will legally allow it to tap into that independent social funding. Now, the 12-inch line is the source of this whole conversation, the water. That is the source of what we're talking about here today. Now, I think that by making a commitment to yes, we are committed because I think we do have folks that are qualified in this, but that's another issue later. Right now I think that we knee need to get that commitment from the court to let them know that the residents that we're going to put forth $115,000, and we'll identify the source sometime later. Now -- and mr. Jazuri, who is with the hornsby bend utility company cials is not here today, but I just got word from my staff, they said hey, you have everything in writing. I'm committed to do all these kind of thing, be and I think they want to go forward with it. So he's on board. I guess the county I think need to get on board, and I guess in the form of a motion to let the residents know that we are committed toward the $115,000. We can identify the source later. But I think that's our motion is that we commit to $115,000, and next week we're hearing what leroy said about the status of the allocated reserve, hearing what harvey Davis has said about the health as far as the money being made available. And what mr. Gieselman has said about looking at the problem later of all the septic takz, in other words, having water and you should have septic tanks to fail. Hearing what sherri fleming just stated. Of course, we've got to get a questionnaire for folks that -- as far as eligibility for things later on down the line.
>> second.
>> thank you.
>> if this motion passes, then staff is authorized to notify hornsby bend that Travis County has officially approved partnering and making 115,000 available and indicating that it is time to start working on an appropriate county contract. And we'll have it back on next week for any follow-up action that is required. We'll get ms. Gonzales the questions mayor today. Questionaires today. I second your motion. Commissioner Daugherty?
>> I want to make sure before we vote on this that eferl understands there can be this potentially unintended consequences for this. I understand that Travis County will enforce all of the septics and all of the wastewater issues, and everybody in this room needs to understand that. Because what we don't want is to -- we all want to help you. I think it's obvious you are going to get a court. Too often we do these things and then all of a sudden something else comes back around and then we've got a community that's really upset about doing something that the government does have to do, and that is that making sure that septic tanks pass and that septic tanks are put in adequately. I'd like to have the nod of the head from eve us now sayingw we're upset with you because now you're going to force us into a spot where we've got to come in here and do septics that pass. I mean, because I'm telling you right now, I want y'all to understand that if that happens, then I'm going to say, were you at that first meeting where we gave you thei don't want us to be the bad guys because we're coming in and doing the job that most likely we're going to have to do that. Ms. Gonzales said there are septic tanks that didn't have problems when we had adequate water, but we also know that there are some out there that number one aren't even permitted, number two, they're not going to pass, and we know that. So just so long as everybody in the room understands that there could be some issues for you that you're not necessarily going to like hearing, but are y'all in agreement that you're hearing that, you know that's going to happen?trict. I am maria anderson. Our membership at the church is 4,000 families and here here to support and I'm a leader with Austin interfaith. And 're here to this project. I believe that part of the discussion that's taking place with regard to your concern is one that we all have. And that's why the cdbg applications are going to take place as a backup for if that should take place.
>> but we can't bank on that.
>> no, I understand.
>> that's our intentions, but I just want everybody to understand that there can be some unintended consequences on this. And if we didn't say it, then somebody would say, I wish somebody would have said that before we left.
>> but we don't want to go away saying well, if things do come up, well, here we are back again. We may have to be back again. We don't know that. We're trying to foresee all of this and we hope that it doesn't happen, but if it does, we'll address it.
>> and with that I sent a copy of -- the utility company a copy of this to -- in other words, the information that y'all have -- the same information we got as far as what they're investing whand they're asking the county to invest. I've also sent that information to senator kirk watson because there still may be possible state dollars that may be be involved. They just got this this week, so they haven't had a chance to review. So you do have somebody at the state level that's also overlooking this. So we're doing what we need to do. I'm ready to vote.
>> sherri, when we did the findings for our first round of cdbg funds, was this area looked at with regards to qualifying for cdbg funding?
>> it was not. We didn't -- the staff didn't do any of the administrative work needed to qualify. The other thing I think that's important to note is that when get into talking about projects that peos individual property, that is more intrusive surveying, and each individual household would have to qualify. So I wouldn't want us to leave here thinking that cdbg would necessarily be the solution should we have problems with septic systems because there are other issues that come into play when we start working with individuals, there are individual contracts that would be required, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. So I want us to be clear about that, that cdbg becomes a lot more complicated when we start dealing with individual households.
>> plus there was an area that you had and given the fact that this area is very close to like the colony and office of these, that's what happened is that average goes up and it captures like plainview, that they may not qualify.
>> that's the reason for the individual surveying. So we establish an area benefit, even though it's overshadowed by an area that may have a higher income.
>> I think everybody understands that. The likelihood of coming back here for wastewater because we're dealing with another area in another area of town where we know what's going to happen. We're fixing to do water, which is the right thing for you. But we know that doing that for you also tags along something that also puts you in a spot later on and then it will eventually -- if we can't get it with cdbg funz, then it's another way of how do we deal with that.
>> residents did testify during the public hearing about this situation. And asked for help.
>> they d.
>> we did not have hornsby bend step up and say we'll cover 75% of the cost at that point.
>> that's correct.
>> judge, I'd like to thank them for --
>> let's get the contract in place.
>> [ laughter ]
>> they've said their word is good. I'll have to take it for what it's worth. Let's vote on it.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Last Modified:
Tuesday, April 3, 2007, 9:34 PM