Travis County Commissioners Court
March 6, 2007
Item 9
The first ten minutes of this item were not captioned.
>> ...assessment of the vacancies in the department and aligning them to the actually titles reflected on page six. It was of interest to us to really exam how many of these temporary slots we are proposing to have the retirement to contribute into the retirement how many departments actually have approved regular ftes that could perhaps be considered. So there are a number of options here. We have worked with the department, they are now and have been very sensitive and concernled about appropriately utilizing their temporary employees and I think with this exposure, the visibility and the opportunity to make these shifts we will find that this number will decrease.
>> county attorney opinion will be sent under operate cover. --.separate cover. I don't think I got one.
>> I was in last week and I thought someone else was taking care are that, I will get acopy of it.
>> I知 going to have some questions anyway so we will need to take this into executive session. In a and b basically there are categories are temporary workers that we've identified and the category you just covered has more than 200 and our recommendation as to them is to do what, now?
>> our recommend station to actually require that group begin to contribute into tcdrs.
>> okay, what is the project workers designation come in, what is the significance of it? Or are we dropping that?
>> the designation is that they are working hours in excess of six months. That is the definition of it, and that they would not be participating in, they would participate in the retirement program but not eligible for other benefits offered by Travis County.
>> shouldn't we have some conditions that you have to meet in order to become that kind of worker. Or are they in place?
>> they are more or less in place in the fact that these people have received consistent paychecks for six months or more. They have been working and received paychecks for six con consecutive months or more and that was the base definition but have you that base definition now in chapter 10 already, this just sort of put the law on top of it. Where we are moving more consistently in that direction, we had necessarily under policy.
>> so I知 john oe -- doe department head, the note that I will receive from human resources will say what?
>> the note they have already received indicates that none with the law -- in accordance with the through self we have created a category of temporary employees that now requires that fellows working over six months will be participating within the retirement program and in discussions with pbo in terms of the funding alternatives, I think they've made contact with the departments in asking, in recommending I believe, that the departments absorb the expense of this participation within their existing budgets.
>> okay. Now, as a department head, my first thought is that I would more appreciate a letter that says dear john, we have identified three employees in your department that have worked beyond the six-month minimum requirement, maximum requirement by law, therefore you will need to start paying retirement benefits unless, you see what I知 saying. Do you think we missed the deadline for asking supervisors, you need to make a determination on this employee because this employee is eligible for retirement benefits. Unless you can take one of the other options. There are other options. So have these departments missed that deadline? And legally, have we missed our opportunity to say you got a problem, there are two fixes, one is to pay retirement benefits, the other is something short of that.
>> I don't see that we've missed that opportunity, judge, I believe that as we are getting direction and input from the court today, it allows us to go back and refine the implementation process with the departments.
>> that is one question I値l ask in executive session. Now that our department heads elected and appointed don't always cooperate with us, but I think they much more appreciate I think a letter that says hey, you've reached a point where you've got to make a decision, can you this way you've got to pay retirement benefits and absorb these internally or take these other actions so we leave it to the department head and the law gives us that flexibility. Now, the next group of temporary workers is an entirely different story, right?
>> yes that group of employees are those none with our -- in accord was our existing policy would work no more than six months out of the year so we have the policy that covers that group. That is 2,629 employees, no retirement participation nor benefits.
>> so the ones in b can work just --
>> six months, up to six months.
>> these are election workers too, right?
>> some are yes, most of them are.
>> that is 2400, not 26.
>> I知 sorry, you are absolutely right, I with a was looking at the total.
>> all this is is we are giving these people a title so we can comply with 633 and the 633 title is you are now called project workers versus temp. The temp people are still the same, six months or less and we are just clarifying that here is what we've got to call you now because you are going to contribute to the retirement.
>> yes. And one thing too, we have this existing policy, 10.076 that defines temporary employee, the county employee will -- attorney will probably explain more in he executive session about that so we have the policy in place, it is not as though we are creating a new policy to accommodate the 2400 temp worker, it is we are just really begins to comply with an existing policy.
>> if you are an election worker, we know how much time you work.
>> exactly.
>> and it includes not only time at the polls but training and --
>> and the interpretation we received is that within a six month period of time each election could be considered a different event and that is one of the clarifications that was provided through our dialogue with the county attorney.
>> all elections this year, they hire them for this election then the next time they come to an election they say can you work and the person says yes or no and they hire them for the next election.
>> they are just rehired.
>> yes.
>> rehired on a temporary basis.
>> you can be retired as temporary employee more than once in a year's period, it is just that you can't continue to work for all 24 pay periods of the year and come up with a concept of being temporary unless it is extraordinary circumstances and we did talk about the fact that there is one person that I知 familiar with who probably fits into that category of extraordinary circumstances. So, and we will talk about that in executive session.
>> so the extraordinary circumstance employee should be converted to regular employee and paid benefits?
>> not in the situation I知 going to describe to you, no.
>> I can hardly wait.
>> [laughter]
>> judge, our situation is just a little different, we don't have temporary election clerks, so we have what is considers temporary is park workers or school crossing guards. The unfortunate thing is they work a nine month period, not six months, they were required based on the school year. We are going to meet with lin linda and her group to come up with a different classification because now they make $8.75 an hour. When they pay 7%, most have already retired some place tells and they pay 7% and that is additional percent of their paycheck that comes to $8.08 and we are having difficulty filling some positions due to funding and so we're going to hope that our meeting tomorrow will gives you a different classification and not require them to pay the additional salaries once they've paid that 7%. Whenever they get to withdraw it, which they will probably never retire with us, they will have to pay penalties on that 7%, so the idea is for us as s to find a classification that fits just a little different. In terms of a park worker, our season starts March to September generally, the labor day we end, we're hoping that we are going to have some that stagger, we'll let some off within six months and then, but some with l stagger and also be paying the 7% and recognize most of our park workers in the summer are 16, 17, 1-year-old that come back, -- 18 year olds that come back every season but they will never retire with us, we've not had any that retire yet or come back and work with us so here again they are paying an additional 7% they will then have to take penalties on when they take it out eventually so I think we can work around the parks if we figure out one off two that may have to stagger that six months but our school crossing guards is definitely an issue for us because they work less than 20 hour as week, they probably work 8, 10 hour as week at most.
>> they are just not staggering it.
>> they can't stagger.
>> [laughter] they have to cross the kids.
>> so under hb 633, after a person has worked six months or 900 hours they ever to pay into the tcdrs?
>> if you really want to know about it now?
>> that is a flaw.
>> yeah. You are talking about the law.
>> I know but this is public information.
>> the law --
>> what it says.
>> the law currently does not say anything about 900 hours, 633 deleted all reference tohundred hours in the Texas county and district retirement system provisions within the government code.
>> okay. Are.
>> it did even more than that, specifically excluded the number of calculated how weres worked as a definition of a temporary employee, could you have one person working one hours per week and if they worked in excess of six months on a consistent basis they would qualify for retirement benefits but it specifically excluded the use of counting the number of hours works so they were very thoughtful of, you know --
>> actually, the way that you interpret the law when there is a chain change in the law that when they take something out that is considering a specific exclusion. They did not under line and say we are taking this out, I mean it just --
>> that whole section.
>> they struck parts of that section.
>> okay.
>> if we work to survey these employees, some would appreciate retirement benefits but we that I most would not because of their circumstances?
>> in our situation, most of them will probably say no. And they have issues that we're going to tell them this is effective in a month so here they are going to have to be reduced paychecks. So I think in our school crossing guard situation most of them will say no and probably students because they are 16, 17, 18, 19 year olds and their side to get a job.
>> but the law does not allow the election.
>> right.
>> we simply must apply the policy for the legal standard.
>> can we talk about that in executive session.
>> hum?
>> can we talk about this in executive session.
>> that will be legal question number three.
>> [laughter]
>> I forgot to write them down so I hope you will ask them again.
>> well I want to know the week in the summer -- I hit a to be inin the position it looks like I知 going out of my way to deny benefits but you say some really prefer not have the 7% taken from their paychecks, it is small already that would make it even smaller and then they are working on part time temporary status anyway.
>> that is correct.
>> we have some --
>> [laughter] information.
>> thank you, judge. Commissioners. I would just like to take this opportunity to talk about councilling and education service situation a little bit. It is kind of the polar opposite of what carol joseph was talking about. We have 52 temporary employees and the majority are counselors counselors that teach our classes, the alcohol drug classes and education classes and a lot of these counselors have been with us for years and years but they may just work two Saturday as month. And also the majority of them are full-time employees for the state, they are schoolteachers, they have other jobs with benefits. They are not interested in retirement with the county because they already have it. They would never be the type that we would want to make permanent employees, but they are very, very important to us, ces for keeping our programs running. So it is similar in what carol joseph was saying, we too are going to have to send out letters, you know, saying in a month this amount is going to be taken from your paycheck. We are still working with hr to determine exactly how many that will be, but, you know, it is going to be at least 30 and perhaps up to 40-something so it is going, it turns into a financial situation for ces if we are to pay 10.71% on each of these employees.
>> well is this, I mean, might this necessitate us going in and trying to do something with 633? Is this one of those unintended consequences that we weren't aware of? Might we need some help there? Or is that an executive session question?
>> [laughter]
>> let's put that in executive session too.
>> from here on in, it is going to be all executive session, Commissioner.
>> six months.
>> in spite of the number of hours you worked in that period?
>> apparently.
>> but historically we've basically, looked up the hours.
>> and what I would say is it is helpful to have people like carol come up and bring up their specific things because then we can address those in executive session in terms of --
>> as a matter of fact that doesn't help us.
>> [laughter]
>> it helps me because I can get you answers.
>> it complicated it.
>> okay it does complicate it. Do we have any more, though.
>> I think most of the issues have bob raised and -- have been raised and of course based on the action of the court and revised policies find in our research work that Travis County is rather unique in terms.of the number of temporary employees we have and the category we are speaking of as we not only looked at the definition and our policy on temp employees, working up to six months we have found that most employees of our size carry nowhere near the number of temp employees has on its rolls, and that is because we serve as a temporary employment agency, if you will, to accommodate our election typetives as well as others. We are taking a look at other ways this revision impacts how we do business and we'll probably be coming back to you, even on issues related to the hiring and selection process, posting possessions will often impact departments and their need to bring temporary employees, there are just a number of ripple effects that give us an opportunity to really quite frankly look at the way do we business and sort of refine it and better in process improvement kind of way.
>> we have other urban counties cover the same --
>> the other urban counties actually access their staff resources through a temporary agency. For that temp agency processes all much the hiring, the -- all of the hiring, the payment, the federal i-9 verifications and what is essentially happening in Travis County is have you an hr department that manages our typical workforce of 4500 or so but we are really running a temporary agency within the hr department as we manage this group of employees. Now this process has allowed us to significantly cleanup the temporary process, you might have noticed in your back up that we have we were able to reduce the number of temp slots but 58%. Just by working to comply with the house bill. But to answer your question, we have found that large employers carry on the average of 300 to 500 temp employees, period. And often, tied to a policy that mirrors the one that we have that a temp employee works up to six months with no benefits and no retirement, of course no participation in the retirement.
>> but on those, the temporary agency charges more. The employee gets less.
>> well, I mean that is true, but again, that is a part of how other employers are handling --
>> that is how we got into the business of doing ourselves. It appears to be a win and win.
>> so that is one of those hidden functions that we carry as we work with the temporary employee pool.
>> any other questions or comments now? We will take this into executive session this afternoon and get legal advice and I will need another week myself so we'll have this on next week for action.
>> is this the opportunity to -- I think was very helpful.
>> go ahead.
>> thank you.
>> now the departments that have a significant number of temporary employees know that we are working on this.
>> oh, absolutely. Yes. The courtroom was full in fact, on Thursday. Of departments that came as a result of the backdrop that we were bringing forward today and encouraged them to take a look at it. We've also been working with the departments for years now on the entire temp project.
>> if the commission's court were to try to fund the entire, the whole financial impact, what is that number?
>> we estimated a number between about 200,000 for the entire year but our recommendation would be to have departments fund tin ternnally because department -- fund it internally because departments have resources that may make sense for them to keep a temp employee for than six months but it may make more sense for them not to do that.
>> the question is --
>> $200,000.
>> it could be 200,000.
>> the range we gave you was zero to 200,000. I don't think we will truly know until after we receive the impact for about a year.
>> responded to what is being brought here today, I know you say you met but did everybody have a chance to put their two cents worth in.
>> I think so they've had the opportunity to do so.
>> everybody has responded so whenever ge forth with whatever we end up doing I want to make sure everybody has had an opportunity.
>> exactly, yes.
>> that is my concern.
>> we can never guarantee, Commissioner Davis.
>> no guarantees but --
>> it has been created and afforded departments to participate. As I indicated the courtroom was actually full on last Thursday with departments that were coming in to heavy more.
>> coming up later saying well, you know --
>> they will anyway
>> [laughter]
>> okay, Commissioner. That is my experience here
>> [laughter]
>> let me ask you, would you contribute to the retirement system and you.leave the county, you get all that back, you don't have to wait until you retire, do you? I mean, I know, let's say that you are 35 and you are working, you know,ing as a cross guard, and you work for, you know, two years and do you have to pay, you know, the 7% in and you go, well, I mean, I知 not doing that any more and so will you quit or move on, can you just file and just say hey, I want my 7% back that I致e got and I知 35 and I don't want to wait until I知 65? So in other words you've got kind of a --
>> like a savings account.
>> in other words you have a savings account. I realize if you are making $8.65 an hour, someone is not interested in their saving account.
>> you receive a penalty for pulling it out.
>> no, I don't know where that came from. You say you are just not in the retirement system any longer.
>> that was incorrect.
>> that was incorrect?
>> yes, sir.
>> it is taxed. It is taxed though.
>> it is taxed but that is not a penalty, you pay a tax on all your income.
>> [inaudible comments]
>> biggest problem when you full out though is that you lose the county's contribution.
>> exactly.
>> so you lose your county contributions and the county con industry interiewtion what percentage -- contribution is what percentage?
>> 2.25 of the --
>> of all the dollars you put into it. 2.25 or every dollar you put in.
>> you lose the 2.25, you pay taxes on a t as though you received it as income and then you, the years were no longer counted towards your years of service.
>> unless you buy them back.
>> unless you buy them back.
>> you don't lose your 2.25 because you don't get it unless you stay there eight years.
>> and the other thing is that while it is at the retirement system, I don't know what the current rate of interest is but there is a rate of interest that apply us when get your statement every if he can or so it says that -- every February or so, it says this is the amount of interest and this is the amount in there so after the first year they will get interest each year, it is what you had in on the previous December 31 that accrues interest.
>> so you lose that year's interest as well.
>> so you lose that year's interest, the county contribution and your years of service unless you buy them back back: so it would be like a very low yield savings account.
>> yes.
>> that is right.
>> if you are in for, I think, less than five years, you are required to take it out within five years after you quit. If you are in for more than that --
>> that is repeal .
>> is that repealed too? I知 sorry, I missed that one.
>> we will go over that in executive session.
>> [laughter]
>> thank you.
>> now, commission eckhardt has a family emergency, she will not be with us this afternoon.
>> I have a 6-year-old with the flu.
>> I have told the engineer won't be here this afternoon so it there any objection to postponing that one week if my office is listening, on 31 we will get that update next week instead of this afternoon, 31, the update next week instead of this afternoon.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, March 7, 2007 8:00 AM