Travis County Commissioners Court
January 30, 2007
Item 17
17 is to approve contract award and contract modification number 1 for refuse collection, ibf ifb no. B070004-oj, to the low bidder, waste management of Texas. We -- we called this item up last week, there were some questions raised. Tom nuckols may well have taken those questions. To the law library. And hopefully tom nuckols is headed this way. As well as cyd grimes. I think we need to call up another item and get back to this one, because staff was a little bit off guard looks like. We do need them -- to come down.
17. Approve contract award and contract modification no. 1 for refuse collection, ifb no. B070004-oj, to the low bidder, waste management of Texas.
>> good morning, judge, commissionsers, cyd grimes, Travis County purchasing agent. Last week I came before you to recommend that the court award a contract and contract modification for refuse collection to the low bidder waste management of Texas. We did receive one other bid from allied but they were not the low bidder. As all of you, I received the same letter from Texas disposal system last week regarding them not submitting a bid. As you know, in September of '05 of this past year we converted to a third party e commerce system, the rfp depo. Back in September of '05 we did a mass mailing to all of our vendors making them aware of this new system and how it worked. We do show that we sent a letter to the Texas disposal systems. Also, we checked the r.f.p. Depot system, it shows that they did view their bid site and did know that it closed on December the 4th. They did not have a password with rfpdepot, but they were aware and could have called us. They were aware, they didn't submit a bid, so we can't accept their bid. Bid.
>> in the system you are supposed to have a password to access --
>> right. You have a private account where you can send your bid and proposals back and forth to us, it's a safety precaution. You have your own personal, it's a safety password issue. They knew that the bid closed on December the 4th. They could have called us and said we want to bid on this project send us a bid or we would have directed them to our website which we also used to advertise the bid solicitations.
>> when does the current contract expire?
>> I believe it expires tomorrow. Lolly just told me.
>> that was a timely question, wasn't it?
>> yes, it was. Tds served as sort of a fallback vendor under the current contract. And we had conditions that we placed in the waste management contract.
>> right. If they received, this will be something that tom will advise you on. If they had received violations then we could have terminated that contract. We did not use the tds contract this past year. It was facilities management recommendation that we not award a contingency contract this time in this process and of course in this process if you wanted to award a contingency, then it would most likely have to go to the low -- the next low bidder, who was allied because as I said, tds did not submit a bid.
>> that will be one of the legal questions that we ask of mr. Nuckols. Now, is there anybody who wants to give us open court testimony before we convene in executive session? If so please come forward at this time. If you give us your name, we would be happy to receive your comments.
>> the other thing that I would like to add is we went back and looked at the bid schedule four years ago when we bid this out because tds did bid it at that time. They were not the low bidder at that time, either. They are considerably more.
>> what's the importance of being low bid, cyd?
>> it's in compliance with the law and it's the best deal for the county.
>> okay.
>> good morning.
>> good morning, judge, Commissioners, I'm berna browning with Texas disposal systems now.
>> [laughter] it is true that -- that we did not submit a bid. We did discover the r.f.p. Depot site quite by accident on the day that the bid was closing. Did not realize at that point that we had other options and for that reason we did not submit a bid. We have gone back, we looked through our archives, we have talked with all of our staff, we have been unable to discover who received any kind of notification from the county that there was a change in the way that the process was going to work and that the way the solicitations were to be issued. We just simply have been unable to find any kind of notification. We are not saying that we didn't receive it. We are just saying that we don't know who in our system might have received it or -- or how -- we have been unable to uncover any kind of -- any kind of information about that. So we are very interested in -- in the county and in your refuse collection. We would like the opportunity to submit a bid. We would appreciate any consideration that you could give us to that extent. And this is ryan beard who is also with the Texas disposal system. I don't know if you have any comments, ryan.
>> > you said it very well.
>> the question is can we comply with their request?
>> in my opinion it would be unfair for you to reject all of these bids and go through this process again. Because everyone's prices now would be open and I mean it might be good for us because they might start seeing who could bid the lowest and we get an even better deal, but in my opinion it would not be fair.
>> from what I understand --
>> the thing to do here as well as to reinforce the process that every contractor has to go through. Especially h.u.b.es. And we need to have a system that is -- that is -- that people can depend on so that they don't think that the rules are changing for somebody and if they are changed for one person or one contractor then we need to change them for everybody. And so I guess what we have been trying to do here at least, you know, my concentration has been on let's make sure that we have a system that applies across the board to every contract. And -- and especially h.u.b.'s because it's confusing. As we try to explain the process so that we remain legal, it's really important that we reinforce what would be fair.
>> we attend the prebid conferences, the h.u.b. Staff attends all prebid conferences and talks about the h.u.b. Program and at every prebid conference we talk about the r.f.p. Depot. We had a press release in the newspaper, they sent out the mass mailing which we did send to tds. They did view the website for rfp depot on November the 27th and knew the bid date. It's my opinion that someone just on their side dropped the ball. We go, you know, we have articles in our newsletters, and so I think that we have got the word out. I'm sorry that they missed it.
>> ms. English? Good morning.
>> good morning. This is trek english and I will -- I will let you --
>> [indiscernible] pictures since I -- good morning, this is trek english, for the record. I basically just documenting what I argued last week about the -- the serious vulture problem. As other people complained, I don't know if you received the e-mails about the odors still going on. Especially in one area of the county on the daily basis for last week. There's some pictures there of my yard. The reason I put in the yard I show you I can have a good life, too, but not when they come and invade my back yard. We need to have a system that's fair for everyone, I think there's a serious problem and I tried to get the agency to -- that is -- that is in charge of -- of the solid waste in -- in Texas to do something. But they won't. I have tried to get Texas parks and wildlife involved and they won't either. So I know that that problem is -- is a problem -- several parts of Texas. But I don't understand why they are not in the trees, why they are not in the towers. Until someone solves this problem, you are going to see me coming back here and complaining. So I understand that -- that the way you are reading it is fair. Is in compliance with the law. And it's best for the county. But -- but frankly just to accept a low bid, it's almost ridiculous when you have people's lives at stake here. I think at some point you need to put some concessions in that contract that say -- that they can be a nuisance to everybody else. And be just a -- the cheapest bidder for you. Because you are actually getting something out of it, but we are not. So -- so I would ask you to please think about this a little bit longer. I think something should be awarded. At some point you should start awarding some of the contracts to good business people. People who have practiced the best possibly methods and not become a nuisance to the rest of the county. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> trek, may I ask you --
>> trek.
>> have you contacted the health department about the odors?
>> the health department has -- has been contacted several times. They have acknowledged that there is a problem. They have said it's just not killing us.
>> it's not what?
>> it's not killing us. They said there will be symptoms of sore throats and eyes burning and whatever, but -- but no long term -- long term effects we don't know that.
>> do you have any documents from the health department?
>> I believe mr. Lurie could document that, he does a study for the city of Austin. I'm quoting -- I'm not quoting him, but I'm paraphrasing what he said about the symptoms being present and the -- the odors being present.
>> do you have any recommendations for us, any -- regarding how we should define in the contract best practices? Because the contract does have -- have contract utilized best industry practices of the municipal solid waste landfill facility where the refuse few is deposited. Where it is processed, sorted and disposed. How would you -- how would you -- would you raise the bar on -- on defining what those best practices are? Who should we turn to?
>> at one point the compliance history played a big role in you award knowledge the contract. That didn't seem to help at all. Even though the provider was here and on the dais said that he didn't -- well not the dais at this table said he didn't have any violations. I sent you a whole list of violations and that didn't seem to deter the county from giving them a contract. So I don't know how far, how you can raise it when -- even when they were having the worst problem and the highest violation, the contract kept coming. I think that if you don't get off the low bidder, then -- then I don't see how you can -- because you can put whatever you want in the contract. You are still going by the lowest bid. That's the big problem. It's that you need to raise the bar and award this contract based on people that have practiced the best methods.
>> and you would do that through your specifications and then you would -- the low bidder would meet your specifications, whatever your specifications are. If the court wanted to say we are only going to do business with a firm who is on a landfill that's 10 years older, younger, then that might disqualify one over the other. Again you will need to get legal counsel on how strong it would be on that. But -- but Commissioner eckhardt is correct, there are ways, conditions that we could put in our specifications that raises the bar. But it's -- it's a matter of -- of legality and it's a matter of cost. So I mean --
>> well, this is a real deep problem.
>> very complicated issue.
>> it is and it does relate to health. Persons calling and complaining about odors. I received complaints about children who actually cannot participate in recess outdoors. That's ridiculous. Why? Because they can't endure the odors, get nauseous, stuff like that. I did report that to the Austin Travis County department. From them in writing per se, but to infringe on the health and the well-being of children, in my opinion, it's just outrageous. It really is. And that is in my opinion a health issue. But of course I haven't received anything from them as of today in writing from those complaints. Looking just last month. So trek I guess along with all of the complaints you all have registered stuff like that. It really needs to come to a head on the problems that have been posed out there in these 290 east landfill. So -- so I'm looking for some documentation on what their findings are on those children at the blue bonnet elementary school. Who can't even go outdoors and play, that's ridiculous. I don't think nobody in this county any other school in this county would tolerate such disarray of activities. If this landfill was located somewhere else in affluent areas of the county where these children are being imposed on, it wouldn't be tolerated at all. This place would be packed with people based on unhealthy conditions, tolerance, because of the -- because of the odors and other conditions that circulates the landfill. This is a big deal, really is. That's my two cents worth. Thank you.
>> yes, especially when you have cold weather that we have been having, the gases -- they are kept down. They don't volatilize in the summer. We are having more problems at this time of the year. I realize that we don't go outdoors much. A mile or two miles away from the site.
>> judge I -- I don't know what the deal is with the -- with the -- with the vultures or whatever you call the bird now. What's the political correct, what is that bird? Is it a vulture, turkey you vulture? Whether we do a contract with -- with -- with tds or with -- with waste, or with b.f.i., I mean, what we are really saying, the only thing that -- that's going to please, you know, a lot of the neighbors out there, are okay let's -- let's just tell the citizens of this community what you are going to have to pay extra. I don't mind telling my people, we are going to pay extra because the county doesn't want to do business with promoting type one landfill in an area where people have a hard time living. I would -- I would go to precinct 3 and say, if it costs you $3 more or whatever the amount is, and just -- say, you know, that's the way that the. But we can't stop the landfills. I mean, I -- I said we can't. We haven't been very successful in the four years that I have been here. Now, what we could do is just say tds please give us a good contract because you are the only one that we can do business with because you are the only ones that is not in the area. That's in the type 1 landfill business in the community. You, I would be happy to sit down with bobby, say bobby don't kill us. But we have to do business with you because we don't want to do county business with b.f.i. Or with waste because of where they are located. But that's what this deal is. I mean, this deal is something that we can't seem to move the ball down the field. Because we can't go out and -- and persuade anybody that you can go and -- and landfill or green fill a site so that you can even move forward. You know, with really getting waste and b.f.i. Out of the area. And it is a dilemma for us. But I mean I'm happy, trek, to say you know what, all right, I vote not to -- not to -- Travis County business landfill refuse in your area. But the birds aren't going away because what we bring there, you know, is not there. I mean, they are there I guess, I mean,, you know, maybe we need to ask the audubon society, tell somebody that tells us why these birds -- because it seems like that the birds are sort of in the last, you know, year they are --
>> last year it has become a real nuisance.
>> the gulls have gone, now it's turkey vultures.
>> I think at some point you need to send a message. If they created a problem, they need to help solve it. If they didn't create the problem, then they need to figure out why there is a problem and why it is -- why they are not on the power line next to where their food is. Why are they where we are.
>> whether they are in your power lines, in your trees, they are close enough it's not safe with all of the droppings, especially given the fact that we are trying to turn some of that into the park. You made a good point last week with that. Y'all until we determine how we are really going to deal with the two landfills in that location and promote them to move and the unfortunate thing is one of them has a contract that they can probably stay there until 2018, the other one has a contract that I would have thought that we would have been wise to have -- have gotten them to sign something, move on by 2015, but that apparently is not going to happen either. I just think that we continue whoever is on this Commissioners court. Deals with this subject from now until the coming. I mean, because, you know, we can't seem to really move the ball forward and unless we are -- unless we are, you know, determined to go out and I guess that's one of those -- I mean, any time that you use eminent domain, that term with people, that excites people about as much as letting people go into an area of -- where we already have a problem. So the -- the issue I think we -- good god, judge, unless we just say, you know, what there are reasons, we probably have justifiable reasons to not allow county waste to go to the two landfills. I don't think that -- I don't think that, you know, $182,000 contract is going to drive waste out of business or b.f.i. Out of business I mean but we at least sends a message from the county standpoint that you know what, we are trying to help, you know, where we can. I mean because that's ultimately what you are asking, tray.
>> I just would like someone to send a message that -- that they are only the low bidder because they cut corners.
>> I think ms. Grimes has a point that was well taken that -- that we have two issues here. We can set the bar higher through contract. The likelihood is through setting the bar higher, we will pay more under contract the low bid won't be as low as it is now. I think that is something to consider. The ancillary cost to the property owners, of course if the property owners go down around there, that also affects the county. I think there are ways that we can quantify those extra costs and see where the tipping point is for us as far as being able to raise the bar a little higher. I think that's a conversation that we are in. I recognize the frustration that you have Commissioners court and perhaps I'm in a different boat since I'm new on the dais to this issue, although not new to this issue. But I do see that we -- that we -- that it is something we are going to deal with. In perpetuity because it is a land use issue, we are always be dealing with lands use in the county, how to dispose with our waste is one large portion of land use.
>> speaking of bar, there are questions for our bar member. Therefore the Commissioners court will convene in executive session now to ask legal questions that impact this issue.
>> let's go to the bar.
>> we will be in consultation with attorney.
where we returned from executive session where we god legal advice. I move to we award the contract to the low bidder, waste management.
>> second.
>> discussion of the motion.
>> we do have the option of extendinging the contract for three months. And looking into further options, is there any discussion on that?
>> I still believe deep down in my heart that we need to follow laws which govern us. In this particular case it's the purchasing act. I'm not about to violate the purchasing act for anybody.
>> extending the contract for three months, it's my--
>> that opens the door. Which I don't want to allow. Because I have a lot of hub contractors who also missed the deadlinelve we always say to them, if you are going to be in business, then you need to know, do your home work so that you know all of the deadlines that you come under. It's really hard. We have said to them before, yeah, we know you overlooked it or yeah, we know that it got lost in the mail or whatever. However,, rules are rules, especially the purchasing act. It's nothing to play with. It's just part of doing business. I think that we have some contractors in this community who know whorks know all the rules. And missing something due to error is not an excuse.
>> certainly not suggesting playing with the purchasing act, although I am current with the safety questionnaire and the answer answers to number two on the safety questionnaire regarding whether or not the bidder has been cited by tce tceq within the last five years. I think the community and the court is well aware of waste management compliance record within the last five years. I think that that warrants giving us, I think it would be appropriate to extend the contract for three months and take some more time to look into our, the best interests, the public interest regarding the answers to that safety questionnaire.
>> can I ask, real quickly, he said he may have an opinion on why the birds are in this area now.
>> john cool, environmental officer, tn r. Opinion? Let me just find out what your exact question is so that I can answer correctly.
>> my question is, are those birds over there just because trek english keeps such a nice backyard and they didn't want to hang around? What is the reason why we now have turkey vul tours in the area and particularly in the trees is this.
>> right. Well, just to to--to let you know, turkey vul tours are not what you would consider to be migratory like the songbirds that go all the way down to south or central america and depart totally, but they are seasonally migratory in terms of they will move, for example, from one part of the state to another part of the state. Particularly during the winter months. So what you will see is you may be looking at vultures that are not necessarily year-round resident and what at the will do is obviously go to places where there is food, water and cover. The landfills are, obviously you know, a source of potential attractiveness to them simply because there is rotting food in, you know, we use the term putrescible waste for type wond landfillsrg and that's what he's these are. As far as what the individual landfills are doing in their daily operations to disuade the birds from being there, would I have to double-check to find out. In the past several years since 2001, anyway, has been my observation that b fi has been very active in shooting off all kind of devices to keep them away and to be honest with you, waste management has not. I have spoken to them about that and they have said, they made a pretty good touchpoint po me, they said if we run them off from our site, then they end up bothering our neighbors. This is not an easy issue. And then what you will see is that, again, during different seasons, they exhibit different behaviors. Now, these folks as we all know live along walnut creek creek. Walnut creek has a very tall woodland structure and at this time of year in particular all the leaves are down or quite a few. Most of these are deciduous trees along the creeklve anything that is roosting in the trees becomes more obvious. You know, I personally have been in trek's backyard looking at erosion problems and things like that. I recognize those photos with that vulture being in her backyard. That's an unfortunate situation there. I don't think that they are there to prey on anything in her yard. I'm not sure exactly what was going on there. But it's just kind of part of nature and part of living on a creak. But it is exacerbated by the presence of the landfill.
>> all in favor of the motion? Any discussion of the motion motion? We do have other business today. I don't know that we making progress.
>> anyway, since mr. Dougherty had a few words, I'd like the say a few.
>> I'm not sure those.
>> but anyway, let me say this. John, I think it would be good to have a compliance history of safety, of violations that and of the landfills that we deal with, if you could maybe give me some research on that as far as researching that from tceq. I think the Commissioner asked a good valid question. And I won't say consistent. I'm not going to support the motion and I have not supported this particular contract on any of those 290 east landfills and I'm thought going to support it today either but I think it is good to see what the compliance history is as far as notice of vie rations and any other things that--violations and any other things that tceq may have a record of.
>> tom and I worked on that a bit last week of we probably need to close up a little bit on that. We'll get back to you. Easily within a couple weeks we can have that for you.
>> thank you.
>> in a couple of weeks, of cows, it looks to be we are taking the vote now, regarding whether or not to ain contract.
>> I guarantee you, there will be hand fill issues on this agenda--landfill issues on had this agenda many many times over the next few months. The there is violation information available, I think we ought to have it because we ought to know and then use it.
>> certainly.
>> all in favor of the motion. Show Commissioners Gomez, dougherty, yours truly voting in favor. Voting gńns, Commissioner Sonleitner and Commissioner Davis.
>> e kheart.
>> now, judge.
>> I had a lot of those more mores right off the bat.
>> that's right all right.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:55 AM