Travis County Commissioners Court
January 23, 2007
Item 8
Number 8 is to consider and take appropriate action on the following exposition center issues. 8 is a form license agreement. B is a rate schedule, which is new or revised, and c, strategy for bringing in house custodial services.
>> yes, sir, executive manag manager for administrative operations. You have before you three items, as you stated. I'd like to go ahead and start off with the form license. This is, the license agreement for the travis county expossess center. It's not a lease, it's a license agreement for the use of the facility. The facilities management and the county attorney have been working to try to revise the license agreement which we he will really revised in quite some time. You have an attachment in your backup, an attachment 2 2. As the court requested, we have taken each of the sections of the license and told what you was in the current version and what was in the proposed version for each of the sections. I won't go through all of them but will highlight some of them. For example, on the insurance and on the fees, ranger will go through the fees when we two through the feed schedule. But for example, on the insurance, one of the change changes is that insurance certificates for the events, we retire insurance on all events--require insurance on all events, now we are saying it needs to be in our hands ten days before thest. That gives us more time.
>> is there language that allows us to accept the insurance after ten days? What page and line that is on that you're read ?
>> it's certificate due ten days prior to event. You mean on the actual? Eight. It says not later than ten days. Failure to timely comply with the retirement shall authorize licenser to cancel the agreement and the relies reliesance use of license space.
>> so we authorize to cancel cancel. Doesn't mean that we necessarily will.
>> that's correct.
>> we will hear an explanation.
>> we always work with our client. And some of this is repeat business. If they are running a little late we understand because they have been with us before.
>> okay.
>> okay. There is a damage deposit required now with 20 percent of facility rental fees. There is an item for dangerous wild animals. That just wasn't addressed in the previous license, now we have included it in this way, which doesn't allow any dangerous wild animals on the premises.
>> actually doesn't allow unless.
>> --unless it's part of the show.
>> actually the city of Austin dangerous wild animal regulations which govern because the expo center is low kayed entirely in the city of Austin. County regulations apply outside the limits of the municipal ty. The reason why it's drafted this way is that it allows for in certain situations, for example, a circus who comes to town, it will have dangerous wild animals and they would be a holder of the city of Austin permit.
>> okay.
>> on security, before on security, we would provide what we thut was reasonable security. They would pay us and we would pay the security. Now we're putting the responsibility on the license ee to provide security. We also, though, provide in the license the name and number of the sheriff. Yes. Exhibit d, detective danny hickel, which is part of the sheriffs office security. They can provide that.
>> alicia, do you think that the word reasonable is to ambiguous? I mean, I bet you if I asked five different attorneys what the definition of reasonable is--
>> that's what it is currently. That's why we are changing it.
>> yeah.
>> uh-huh.
>> so changing it so that the license ee, though, is--
>> solely responsible.
>> --is solely responsible for providing a reasonable number.
>> yes. Commissioner dougherty, in exhibit d under security, the number and schedule of security officers must be approved by the expo center director, or other authoriz authorized person, prior to ment of the event--chestment of the event.
>> okay.
>> so we do have some control over what is or is not reasonable.
>> okay.
>> okay.
>> custodial services is another that we had license ee paying for additional custodial services if they use the facility more than, if the event lasts more than 24 hours. Now we are having the license ee pay for custodial services directly. Per our rate schedule. Parking surcharge, that is totally new. Before when there are events at the expo center, now, they are allowed sometimes to charge, or some events have parking fees. We have traditionally not collected on those parking fees or gotten a part of those unless we had had a particular contract that allowed us to. Now this form contract will have the county entitled to one-third of all parking charges collected by license ee, and that is purely on an honor basis.
>> how typical is that provision? .
>> go ahead.
>> several events happen at the expo center, director of facilities manager department, several events happened last year, let's say about five or six, that collected fees, pack-- pack--parking fees.
>> in a facility such as the this, would you typically find the owner of the facility sharing in the parking fees ?
>> yeah. What you have sometimes, and I can just mention a couple of them, is have a parking where people, where the facility collects all the fees. Because it's a parking garage, and you would go in there and just pay and the facility collects.
>> judge, and Commissioners, a little asterisk, if you look attachment 2, I know you don't like asterisks, but it's just a note to ask that I be able to brief you very briefly in executive session at some point this afternoon about the parking sur charn. The parking surcharge has col up multiple times in the past several years and our office has advised you whether our position is about the authorization of the court the charge such a surcharge, and I just wanted to sort of refresh your recollection about what the law is on that.
>> okay. Let me be all more specific with--be a little more specific with my question. Let's say that I leased a facility in wako because they have sick lar facility. I lease the facility for my event and I want to charge parking. And I think I will get 1500, 2,000 vehicles there. Would I go in expecting the owner of the facility to share in the parking proceeds? .
>> let's see if we have that information. I know that you would at the Austin convention center. You would at corpus christi, america one bank plaza. And we have thing in, judge. I just have to pull it.
>> those both are cities. Let's take counties.
>> I need to get back with you on this one.
>> okay.
>> I need to get back with you on this one.
>> I did not intend for that to be a trick question, by the way.
>> we did some research where the other counties. I just don't have that particular information.
>> all right. Okay.
>> at hand.
>> you hope to brief us on that.
>> on the exact issue, what counties can and cannot do.
>> okay.
>> that covers the changes, or most of the changes, on the license agreement. The license agreement itself is about five pages. The authority to sign the license agreement would be with the director of the exposition center. Then you have the exhibit, which are the rate schedules the insurance requirement.
>> all the vendors pretty much are happy with some of the changes as far as what we are looking at now today? Have they been, as far as what we are doing here today have they actually had a chance to visit with us on any of this stuff? Stuff?.
>> there are some vendors I've been talking to, this makes it easier for them. Any of those changes we are making right now, it seems to be easier.
>> it's simpler and easier for them to participate.
>> absolutely.
>> okay.
>> absolutely.
>> okay.
>> that's what I need to hear.
>> let me ask that question differently. I mean, don't you think that if you ask potential users of this facility, that because some of this is going to cost people more, in most instances, than what we have structured and what we have had in the past.
>> yeah.
>> right ?
>> that's correct.
>> well, then there's your answer to how, I mean, because I don't know of any vendors that if you drastic drastically change the fee structure, now, talking about the fee structure with an expo center is a different, you know, subject matter for us because we struggle with how to pay for our convention or our expo center. I mean, people know that. We take money out of the general fund every year to really make that deal work. But I don't think that we would find any vendor. Now, they may know at least with what this may be, here is what we are charging you, and you go out and you compare what you can do in san antonio or in bell view, and are we in the hunt. But you are certainly going to have a bit of a knee jerk reaction to some of this. But in our, on our behalf, we may need to do that, because we can't seem to generate enough dough to pay for the basic overhead of just keeping the doors open at the ec poe center. So--expo center. I know that's kind of where we're trying to get. And there is a balancing act there that we have. Are you going to attract people, are you still going to attract the business that we have presently, because let face it,er the last thing we want to do is lose any business. We're trying to make ends meet. And if we go and we whack, you know, somebody, especially if they are a big user, then we are really going have to look ourselves and go, is that the right decision for us to make. I didn't want that to go by like, hey, I think that we just sent this questionnaire out to the vending world and the vending world sent back in, we love it.
>> you're right.
>> that's probably not what's going to happen.
>> on the rate schedule the numbers we are trying to change to make it simpler actually reduce the cost of this and make it easier for the promoter to come back. Let me explain. On the show barn, I lost about six promoters on the horse show because of the custodial fee. The last three years we went to the custody al, which is the low bid system, and they charge $800 to clean the show barn. When you get that, it doesn't matter if you rent two or 220 stalls over there they would be charged $800 custodial fee to clean the show barn. When you get the arabian show , like 20 or 30, you have to pay the 900 for rental plus you pay $800 for if it's one-day show, you pay $800 for custodial. Then if it's a two day show, you pay $900 per day plus the custodial is about $1,0 $1,036. What we are doing, is taking the money from the customer and pass it to our custodial contractor. So our guys, I mean, six, every time I did some calls to those folks asking if we do it differ way, would you come back, I think I gain three more that are going to come back with four different shows, with only $ $200. If you approve today the rate schedule. It goes up $200 to clean all the stalls, to clean the show barn. And we say the show barn would be $2 had you been for any event. If it--$200 for any event. If it turns out to be an event for horses we charge for cleaning. Like if we get 20 of those, that's about like, we are talking about $100.
>> that makes sensesense.
>> that is what we are trying to do on the rate schedule. It's in the changing the rate on the facility and rental. We're trying to extend the time. For instance, the skyline club is rented for only six hours only and then under the current, for six hours, for $950. And it says also in the current rate, it says, move in and move out, it's a half a day charge, which means $ $475. Let's say person coming in has an event for eight hours well, you have to charge him 950 plus 475. Really, I'm in the attract attracting people to go to the skyline club of I say we keep the rental as is, 950, but in lieu of six hours try to increase to eight hours. This way it will cover everybody to come and set up and go. If they need more than that then we say, okay, guys, you got to pay us $100 per hour additional. So there's no move in and move out. This way in lieu of paying 475 for additional one or two hours they pay only 200 and I recover my cost which is electricity and opening the facility. So really that, the majority of our rate schedule is based on that. The main thing is on--
>> roger, on current schedule also, the way it is from previous times and the way it is now, we aren't really losing any money.
>> no, we aren'ti aren't--
>> I think when you get that point across, we aren't going backwards.
>> absolutely.
>> apparently there has been some satisfaction as far as the way this is structured now with some of the users, the way this new rate schedule probably appears.
>> yes. I think Commissioner, let me make clear, though, make it more friendlier and easier for the customer to look at the rate schedule and determine how much it costs, you know, for his or her event.
>> right.
>> right now there's lots of interpretation right now. Let me give you one example. This is a main change I would say in my rate. It's the arena. Currently as it says right now, $3,000 per day versus 10 percent of gross up to a maximum of $8,000 for ticket ticketed event. Never happened before that we collected 10 percent of a ticket the event except for the ice bed when they used to pay us for every, it was the average about $1,700. Now, then item number 2 says $2,000 per day for 1 hours for nontick--12 hours for nonticketed event plus labor labor. It's tough for us to sit with the promoter and say how many tickets you sold and have you to give ten percent of that and try to assess the labor after the event happened. When we say $3,000 flat fee that the it. You want that event, go ahead. Use that event, pay me $3 $3,000 for the rental fee, and that, and you are on your own on that. If you got $3,000 people and you sell $10 ticket, that's 30,000. I recover mine, I got 3,000. Really you can see you have the event, they have more than 3,000 people in the arena. Rarely. But the sperb event, those are special contractual event just like ro t. Again if you look at number 3.
>> we are on the items on the contract.
>> I'm sorry.
>> we can go on to the other other. I thought you had covered the contract, right ?
>> yes, sir, I did. We can go to the rate schedule, yes.
>> okay on item number 3, as you can see, it says $75 per hour over 12 hours with additional charge of $75 per hour after midnight. On the arena, I would like, what we are trying to do is kind of like, would like the make it simpler. And we say it's $100 for additional hours. I would like to increase the basic rent for 16 hours. Use it for 16 hours, not for 12 hours, for the basic fee. Then if any additional hour you want to come the day before or the day after or you want to use it the day after, that's $100 perdition perditionel, to cover our electricity only. Not the chiller. The electricity. This is how the major change changes happen in the arena. The other changes--
>> in three, is it clear when the $100 fee for additional time kicks in ?
>> yeah. You rent it for one day, judge. Let's say you rent it for one day which is 16 hours, nobody can use it.
>> I understand but three doesn't say that, does it? To we need to say that in three? I'm looking at this chart.
>> it says--
>> my three only says $100 perditionel hour under pro-- pro--perdition per the additional hour. Under proposed.
>> it does that I that on exhibit 8, going back to license agreement now, which is the event costing schedule. It does exactly say, rental period of 16 hours in 3,000, the second item under facility rental fees, each additional hour. Roger is pointing out the changes from the old fees to the new, all of which appear on a very detailed event costing schedule which is an attachment to the license licenselicenseso so which one should I look at ?
>> exhibit a to the license. That way you can cross-reference.
>> they both say the same ?
>> yes.
>> yes, but this is not going to become part of the contract. This is just a spreadsheet prepared for purposes of discussion today.
>> exhibit a shows in the rental facility, shows arena rental period for 16 hours. And then if the quantity can include if it's one or two depending on how many days. Then olympic arena for each additional hour is $100. So it's stated over here and also mthe exhibit b in the rental, in the rate schedule schedule. This is really the main issue with the arena. I think it will attract more people to it by making it simpler on that. Now, on the issue for the show barn, this is what I would like to talk through. If you look at item number c which is the second page, and that's the show barn, the current, and again, we did not change the rental fee. It's 900 per day, staying 9 900 per day. Now, what we did, we change the rental period to a maximum of 12 hours just to be consistent with the other fa sit. Right right--facility. Right now we don't. We are change for each additional hour will be $50. Really that's for additional hours. Some people come the day before and some people come two days before. Well, all I ask, when they turn on that electricity for all those fixtures in the show barn, 210 thousand square feet, I have some recovery costs in there. I charge very min pump, which--minimum. But it is a whole day, 12 hours. You can use the facility. All the horse show really starts in the morning and at six. So we'll cover with those shows. And they can leave their horse for the next day, no charge. But the additional hours is really what's set up for, the move in and the move out out. The other item number 5, it's only would try to increase the stall. Right now we are renting the stall for $12. Now we are moving for $15. We increase for three dollars. The reason behind that is the labor. We have to set up the stall. Not all the time set up the way they want. We can figure out right there if we can increase by $3. We partially cover for labor and we will be in good shape shape. And we did not change for the tie, still $2 per head per day and still the same. Security deposit, number 9, cr?mpts 9, stay the same. No changes. It says 20 percent of the total rental fee, now we say the rental fee is 900. So we say pay 980. So simpler. Nobody can make the calculation. It's already there. Here item number 10.1 to 10. 10.4, that's what I was talking earlier about the custodial fee. The horse show and livestock event one day is $920. We pay the custodial contractor, again, 800 fee. 920 is 15 percent for our, it's 920 minus 800 is 120 which is 15 percent of the 8 800. It's for our administrating the contract with the custodial. So that thing we carriage directly the customer.
>> is that predicated on the fee that we have had in the past, or is this amount on what we are, because I anticipate that bee are going to do this janitorial ourselves.
>> yes.
>> so is this predicated on what we pay another vendor? Or calculating how many hours and how many folks that we think that we are going to have that what's this praise predicated on ?
>> the 920 is again the custodial contractor by, you know, by the system of the low bid and by contract we pass the buck to them. Now, on our case if we do our own, then this is on item number 7. If you look, sorry, item number c, which is the next page, the spreed right here. It shows that the show barn, we can do the show barn for.
>> you are still on page 2 of 4.
>> that the correct.
>> c.
>> you went a little further on that. We did calculate. Let me make the summary. We did calculate our costs and our cost is about $200, less than $200, to clean the facility right. Plus the number of stalls. And we still make some profit for our folks. And it is, and I will talk to you about that, the custodial fee, when we talk about item number c. I will show you the spreadsheet and the numbers, how we arrive to that number by providing one full-time supervisor and about like 12, as a pool, for custodial cem custodial pool. So any time we have an event we can go to the pool and get three or four people to work the event. Then we pay them directly out of the money which charge our our--our customers for the custodial fee. We don't pay them out of the general fund, not even 501. It's going to be in the 501 but that particular number is for the custodial only.
>> I think the short answer was yes, it was predicated on the previous contract that we had for the cuss told al.
>> okay--custodial.
>> okay. You see number 10.2, you see how much money, how much money our customer is going save. Not would are going to lose as county. If you look at 10.1, the customer is going to save $7 $720. We are not losing $720. You know, that is a number that we pay the custodial, pass the buck to the custodial contractor. You know, $800 plus the 15 percent, now we have $720. If they have two-day event, then the saving to our customer is 838, I mean 739. Three-day event for the horse shows is $838. I think that's a big change. I think that's why we try to gain back our lost customer, to bring them back to our arena. The cuss cuss--custodial for even event other than hoarse show is $200. What is that, we have to clean the wash racks, the common ground, we have to clean the two restrooms and we have to clean the office and the stalls if there are some horses. So that would be covered by the $200. And we still make some money money. And the banquet hall, item number d. D there's really no changes except the same scenario happened for the skyline club and the arena. The number is still the same $1800. That's d 1. No change. But the rental period was for six hours, would like to extend it for eight hours for the same concept. And then the move in and move out under the current agreement, the current contract, would like to replace it by $100 perdition perditionel hour. And it's already--per the additional hour. It's already stated in the rate schedule in the costing event. No changes for rental of table and chairs. No changes for the custodial rate for the banquet hall, $ $200.
>> can we quickly walk through the custodial proposal ?
>> yes, sir.
>> more quickly ?
>> sure.
>> this is fascinating, roger, but let's hit the highlights.
>> all right, sure. Okay. Custodial. On the custodial issues, we calculated for a particular event how many hours we would need to clean after the folks leave the facility for the show barn or for the arena and the banquet hall. And you can see we put the number of staff and the number of hours and the rate rate. We would like to hire a temporary custodian for $10 per hour. And based on how many hours needed to clean the event, and that's how much we pay the staff. Plus the 15 percent supplies supplies. So all the numbers, as you can see on that, for the supply, labor, supervisor hours, all of them, taken into account for each facility. So we still under the custodial rate we are paying right now and it's still under the low bid contract we received about two months ago. So we are still okay on that that. And we are really making it easier for our customer. Now let me mention what I need to make that strategy work. I need one full-time supervisor. That supervisor would be there stationed at the expo center, scheduling folks for events. If there's no event, he will make a generally clean-up, by himself, you know, over there. And when we have an event, he will draw out of a pool of 10 or 12 that he can schedule ahead because that's what, in our fee, in our license agreement we said we need, if anybody wants to book and event in the expo, when he or she signs the contract, they will put the 20 percent non nonrefundable deposit. This will guarantee for us that we can schedule folks to make sure the event is taken care of after the event is done.
>> so actually, would the supervisor, which is one person, in the pool of 12, how many folks would be per event? .
>> that depends on each event, Commissioner.
>> okay.
>> because let's say for instance on the arena.
>> all right.
>> that you have like five or six, you know, working to clean that facility.
>> okay.
>> in the bang ret--banquet hall you need only two or three. So as long as we know ahead of time the booking events, how many people come in and what area, we can schedule.
>> so the pool of 12 actually, the supervisor at the time will be able to pick whatever they need from that pool of 12.
>> that's right.
>> at the rate that you stib lated before, $10 per hour.
>> $10 per hour rate. Okay. Would be at their disposal.
>> sure.
>> is that correct ?
>> yeah. And those employees are temporary.
>> right.
>> and they can be, they can work over there only if there's event. If there's no event, they don't work. The only thing would be a working person supervisor, making sure everything is clean.
>> do you have in mind using some county employees to serve as temporary workers ?
>> I think it's open. It's open to everybody.
>> fair labor standard act questions that we ought to get clarified. I don't have any problem with it but we ought to make sure we understand the employee benefits impact it may well be that we have to disallow that.
>> we discussed that.
>> you all discussed it with legal counsel or aone another ?
>> we discussed it among howers and said we need to make sure what our parameters were before we hired the first person.
>> if that's an impact, we ought to get clarified. I don't have any problem with it but we ought to know exactly what the impact is.
>> exactly.
>> yes.
>> okay. Thank you judge.
>> thank you. That's the presentation.
>> misramirez.
>> yes, one question I guess on this custodial cost on the spreadsheet. As roger mentioned they list the county total cost and the low-bid cost and that the county total cost is less than the low-bid cost. It is my understanding that all the bids were rejected for this contract because they were all significantly over the budget that's in the ec poe center fund for this, for custodial services services. So my question would be, is it total county cost of this proposal higher or lower than what's budgeted in the expo center right now for custodial services overall.
>> it's much lower. It's much lower.
>> and than the budget or than the bend ?
>> you see, what we have--
>> lower than the budget or lower than the bid ?
>> both.
>> all right.
>> both.
>> that's the answer you wanted, right ?
>> that's the answer we were looking for, yes. From my an understanding there's 9,754--59,754 for the contract currently. Or is it higher than this? I took over fm this year.
>> no fixed budget for custodial events.
>> that's what I thought.
>> okay.
>> that's how that center operates, based on that. We set some kind of a budget when we go for the low bid, we say that's how many events we have. We are projecting how many events and how much the cost is.
>> okay.
>> really there's no ed budget, as you--fixed budget as you know.
>> there's just one other item I need to note for the court, is that the schedule does provide for the director to have the authority, if someone comes in and rents all the grounds of a 15 percent discount, or someone comes in with a multiyear contract, we can provide also a ten percent discount. This is, again, to encourage people that come back year after year after year, our good customers, to get some credit for using the facility.
>> like a loyalty.
>> yes.
>> a good segue into mr. Brag is present here today. Any comments or are you just here to back up staff ?
>> actually, that's not a bad idea. They are doing a good job. Thank you for asking. I would like to propose that the recommendation to change the rates at the ec poe center, they sound--expo center, they sound good and sounds like they will help you attract some smaller efforts. I'm not quite as confident that it will help really reach your goal of making the expo profitable and attracting larger events. I would like for you to consider postponing any action on this until you could appoint a committee to perhaps meet with your larger clients and get our input. How this really effects you, how it affects the county and the revenue. So, that would be my recommendation. Under one interpretation of this paperwork, and I had a chance to look at it earlier after talking to my attorney it appears that it might save me considerable amount of money. I'm not sure that's what your goal is here, to save me money. So it might be good to take a week, step back and look at it, examine it, have some more discussion before it's brought to the court for approval.
>> but if we really want to do it, you would be all right with that.
>> oh, I would love that.
>> judge, I want to basically try to move towards an action today. But however, there is I think a legal question that bee still need to answer in executive session. So--
>> that would be in relation to items 8 a and b, the parking surcharge issue that I wanted to brief you on. Pending what jerry brag just said with respect to item c, which is the janitorial services, that is not impacted by the legal briefing.
>> can we put our attorney on notice ?
>> exactly.
>> we will need five minutes with him or her this afternoon.
>> we need that also.
>> mr. Brag, what if we have our cake and eat it too? What if we act promptly on the recommendation, either this week or next week, and then put in place a large users committee, let's call it a large users blew rib-- rib--blue ribbon committee, and receive those recommendations as soon as they are ready. Having lived in Austin more than I care to admit, a lot of these committees go off and do really real good work work. Some of these endeavors take a little type. This way the committee won't be rushed, and we will just eagerly await recommendation recommendations from it. See what I'm saying? Because if there are better ideas, we certainly want to here about it. One question that comes to mind first is who should we have on the committee. We don't have that many big regular users, so it could be a small committee. But there are people that we probably want to have on there, and each court member probably wants to think this a little bit about how we go about pointing that committee, don't you think? Maybe coming up with a charge and make sure we have a little catchal description that says other recommendations as deemed appropriate by the committee so we can leave the door open.
>> I'd be happy to chair that committee if the court pleases.
>> chair the committee, you may have to provide refreshments. Let's think about that. Okay.
>> just amused. Last week we were charging you too much. Now we are charging you too little. That's about how the committee works.
>> I look at this as a partnership. I don't thick it's any secret. You make money money from my attendees than you do from the rent you charge me.
>> right.
>> so as a partnership, we need to come up with ways that meet both our needs. To me, it's always easier to grow the top line. And that is to cater to our attendees, get more attendee attendees, sell more product so you make more money. Money.. So the rate increases you propose here are minuscule in comparison to the potential. And there are ways of structuring the agreements. Now, the custodial and all of these issues you're talking about, I don't believe affect me because our contract is a little different. The dangerous wild animals, it's already addressed in our contract, and so on. So.
>> you're a multiyear.
>> I'm a multiyear user. A little of my background, I have been in business, manag managing people, all my life life. I retired at thel age--at the age of 40. I foolishly got back in business but luckily sold at a profit. I've done well. And this started as a passion of mine, as a volunteer. And it has grown to what it is today. I would like to see it continue to grow right here in Austin and for the community and us to be able to all prosper. That's all.
>> okay. Thank you.
>> first meeting is at sullivans steakhouse and I'm going to attend. Attend..
>> that's one of our best supporters.
>> what we are saying is, instead of getting a few more dollars out of our attendees, we're trying to increase the number attendee attendees. That's what I hear. But if there are other recommendations, we certainly want to hear them too. Let's think about maybe doing both of them. Okay. We do have a couple of legal questions, a couple of three legal questions. It will be this afternoon before we go into executive session. Any other input, though, from anybody? Questions from the court? Then we'll call this item up this afternoon for the executive session discussion with legal. Thank you.
>> thank you staff. You all did a good job.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:33 PM