Travis County Commissioners Court
December 19, 2006
Item 35
35 is to consider and take appropriate action on a sidewalk variance along slaughter creek drive to title 30-3-191 for a subdivision in precinct three the hollow at slaughter creek, preliminary plan.
>> hi. Anna bolin, Travis County tnr. This variance is to -- is for the hollows at slaughter creek. There is one street, slaughter creek, that is non-curb and gutter and it is to not have a sidewalk on a curb and gutter street. The non-sidewalk variance is fairly routine. This -- granting this variance does not approve the preliminary plan. The preliminary plan is something that the adjacent subdivision finds rather contentious and there are several people here to speak to that, but there is a routine variance that we have granted before, and staff recommends approval of the variance.
>> so why does this variance make sense?
>> well, this variance makes sense because in instances where there are non-curb and gfser roads it makes sense to have separation and not have a sidewalk because it's desirable to have separation between roads and pedestrians and we haven't found an adequate way to engineer a sidewalk, a ditch section and a road without having a curb to separate the road from the sidewalk. So that is why we routinely recommend this variance.
>> yes. If you give us your full name, we will be happy to get your comments.
>> my name is patricia michaels.
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic].
>> and my name is leslie (indiscernible).
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic]. Because of the railroad and because of the creek confirmation. There are over 150 large lots all probably going to be developed at later times as the trend if our area continues. And I have a man here to show you the amount -- I have a map here to show you the amount of area that this road is onlt access. -- is the only access. There are people who walk on this road to public transportation daily. Slaughter creek road has water on it for about a half to three-quarters of a mile everybody time there is a large rain event. And we're not talking about flooding. I'm only talking about an inch, inch and a half. It depends upon the timing and how much rain we've had before. Slaughter creek at the bridge does go underwater three and a half feet in a large rain event. So we need high and dry ways for people to walk along this road. It's extremely dangerous to not have a sidewalk. The proposed subdivision will have approximately 30-acres of buildable area. They are proposing 217 homes on that 30-acres, so there will be a heavy use for public transportation. The only way to school for the children in middle school and the high school -- the middle school and the grade school will be along this route because busing is not allowed for children within two miles from this, so those children will need sidewalks. And they will need a.d.a. Compliant sidewalks that will put -- probably put the county in legal liability if those sidewalks are not a.d.a. Compliant because of the affordable housing being installed. Also we're asking that in the -- and the other part of it is that the sidewalks could be built right along the backs of the lofts and still have the drainage ditch and the rod the way it is right now. These will be backyards of the proposed subdivision, so there will probably be a fence all along slaughter creek drive and the sidewalk could be built right next to that fence. And if you like, I can see shoe you the map.
>> if you want to get the map out, I can speak. Is that okay? Thank you, judge and Commissioners.
>> your name again?
>> matt ruff. I'm a resident of the neighborhood. I bill a bill brook, -- I live on bill rookbrook, which is the only practical access out of this neighborhood that already exists. Along bill brook and its access we have approximately 750 homes. That does not include slaughter creek drive, which is where the variance is being asked for, which branches off of bill brook that has, as patricia se, about 150 homes. The proposed subdivision that's going in will have an additional 200 -- as I see from the notice 219 as per its current platting, new additional home to be added. And as you'll see when we get the map up, the new subdivision that's being proposed is kind of a wedge-shaped property, 40 acres. They're looking at putting 219 homes in 40-acres. There are three proposed road accesses out to the rain roads, that being bill brook place on one side, slaughter creek drive and January drive, which is one at the apex of that triangle. Those are the only vehicular accesses. Now, all of the residents of this new subdivision will have only one pedestrian access to public transit, which would be to exit by one of these three vehicular exists out of the neighborhood. And the area where the subdivision is being proposed is up near the top of this map here. Slaughter creek drive on the left side, bill brook on the right. It does not have frontage on bill brook except for a very small portion down near the end. Twloos that road access would go if the current platting is approved at least as the last one that we've seen. The sidewalk variance is being asked for along the left side of this area, so the only way for people to get out of here by foot, those people who need public transit, would be along either internally through that neighborhood and out the general with a exit or along slaughter creek drive along the left sigh. As was mentioned already, it's a non-curb and gutter road right now, and that means basically if you want to walk out of there, you've got to do it in the dirt or on the street. That would continue in that condition if this variance is approved. My concern is we're going to put in -- if this goes forward and the subdivision is approved you will have 219 new houses. How many of those houses will be occupied by people with children going to either the middle school or elementary, and those children cannot be bussed. They would have to walk. Casey is just north of slaughter lane and the middle school is off to the right. I don't think it quite appears. It's kind of behind the roll of the map on the right over there. Is it on there?
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic].
>> both much those schools are inside the two mile limit. I spoke with the secretary for the principal at the elementary and she confirm that aisd will not bus if they're within two miles of the school. All of those children that go to either of those schools will have to be driven by their parents because there is no safe way for them to walk to school. I'm kind of surprised that this variance is even being asked because when the developer came to us to say this is what we would like to build here, we had residents who were at the meeting who said we don't like what your proposing. We would like to discuss this with you. One of the overanching concerns was traffic on bill brook. It's the only way in and out of this neighborhood. We're surrounded by wall street, train tracks. I'm kind of surprised they would ask for the variance because it would ease traffic, vehicular congestion because you would enable more people to walk out on foot to get to public transit. However, there's a bus stop, I keep talking about public transit. There's a bus stop right at the corner of bill brook and slaughter lane. It's right there. It's very easy walking distance for everyone in this new subdivision. Those who cannot walk, those who use wheelchairs, in the bottom of the pink area, the road curves to the left a little bit, there are some dpleksz that 'built very recently. I don't know the exact year, but it was certainly within the seven years that I've lived in the neighborhood. And there's one man who lives in there. I have seen him driving his wheelchair down the street because he didn't have any sidewalk to drive on in that area. We're not asking the developer to put in sidewalks where there aren't sidewalks, but I'm asking you as the county court of Commissioners require them as their obligated now to put in sidewalks in the new area that they're developing so this isn't a problem for the new citizens that are going to move 52 into those new homes.
>> is there anybody from centex here?
>> anna, help me with some thing. What I saw is that it was basically a disconnected sidewalk and that it's along a road where there would be -- it would be be one thing if the driveways were going on to slaughter creek drive, because absolutely they would need to pass out, but you don't have any way for people to access this, with the exception of everything that is north of -- it looks like it is teller field trail is where you actually have a pufnlging out -- pufnlging out of the street on to slaughter creek drive, so it would seem appropriate you would want to have a sidewalk there because that's where people are coming out. And physically would have a way to get there. But on the lower stretch there's no way to get that unless somebody hops a fence through somebody's private property. And on the southern end there's a creek and there's nothing further beyond that. One segment I can see you accessing it, but below teller field it's a disconnected sidewalk in the middle of nowhere that nobody is going to be able to access. I'm kind of in between.
>> you're asking sidewalks be put where?
>> I'm asking at a minimum the sidewalks -- I don't want to see the sidewalk requirement completely waived.
>> you're asking the sidewalks to be put where?
>> placed along slaughter creek drive at a minimum to allow any and all citizens of this new subdivision to have pedestrian access.
>> ma'am, fwheed out that -- we need you on that microphone. You have just a brief statement.
>> the citizens that I'm representing are all of these people. And this proposed subdivision does not exist as a little entity all in to itself. It has responsibility to the whole community. And what has been allowed, I've been seen has been allowed, is to have -- think of this plat as an isolated thing, but it's not. It exists with road frontage and pedestrian frontage for the entire community and it has a responsibility for to all of these people.
>> you're asking that sidewalks be placed where?
>> I'm asking that sidewalks be placed all along the land that the developer is platting.
>> okay.
>> there are 750 homes there now?
>> no.
>> there's 750 homes where you live?
>> there's 750 homes just on the bill brook side. On the slaughter creek drive side I believe there's an additional 150 or so.
>> on the slaughter creek drive, in this area here there are 150 lots with 45 businesses that have employees that walk to and from those businesses, and they have 197 residences, and they have 15 small businesses where people drive to and from the businesses.
>> and there are sidewalks there now?
>> there are not sidewalks in all of this part of the area. There are -- they have made paths and places for people to walk. And also, your honor, up across the street from this project are some storage buildings that have been advertising and getting business from all the bands and music industry in Austin, and they have a huge business going on there now of band practices in those storage units. And most of those band practice people walk to and from public transportation.
>> okay.
>> good morning, judge.
>> [inaudible - no mic]. My neighbors adequately described the concerns in the plan.
>> [ inaudible ]. To delete the requirement for the sidewalk is an ill proposed plan. On the west side of slaughter creek there is no sidewalks. 219 homes is sure to increase pedestrian traffic.
>> yes, ma'am?
>> well, I think -- actually, I'd like to listen to what the representative of centex has to say here and show his plat. Unfortunately what we have up here right now is not going to show you the internal structure of this proposed subdivision action so I think it would be more useful for you to take a look at this and get him to explain where the fences are going to be, where the driveways are going to be, and then let's discuss it further after that.
>> I'm don (indiscernible) with centex homes.
>> there's a microphone there.
>> I'm don haider with centex home. The area in orange is the area where the requested sidewalk variance is. It's about 1950 feet of sidewalk or area there. Right now there's a proposed driveway out on to slaughter creek there.
>> don, show -- so everybody understands, show where you come off of slaughter, how you come down to where your subdivision is. Just start out here like you're coming from slaughter.
>> this is slaughter lane up here. You would be tunning right or left, whatever, coming this direction down bill brook and taking a right. You can access the neighborhood here on 100 year oak drive or you can come further down bill brook to speeder stan pass or come all the way around to tiller field trail. So those are the three entries that are proposed into the neighborhood. Sidewalks are proposed within the neighborhood, so I think that anyone living in a neighborhood would probably walk through the neighborhood to get to this point. I believe the sidewalks are going to be required here along genoa because that's a curb and gutter section there. And then this small piece here down along bill brook there will also be sidewalks required there because that's also curb and gutter section that the neighborhood borders on.
>> but you are effectively asking for the orange line -- that's the variance that you're asking for that you don't want to put a sidewalk over there.
>> right. There's no curb and gutter along here, and there is a drainage easement right behind that area in orange. I believe it's about a 50-foot wide drainage easement. There's a natural kind of drainage route right now. So this would actually be improved along here, that drainage route would probably help the drainage situation.
>> and matt, who would your response be if -- it make sense if you live in there, the sidewalk that you're going to use is going to be internal at least to get it out to genoa or whatever. Would that be a practical -- do you think that people are going to exit going out I guess the back of their lot to go across the street to goat the sidewalk to use?
>> I think it's entirely likely that people who live -- whose lots back along that orange line if you will to the left side of that exit, it's entirely possible they may choose to exit there. If we only consider people going to and from public transit, maybe they will go internally. It depends on how many park their cars illegally inside the neighborhood. There's always a problem, especially if you're wheelchair bound. So if too many people are blocking the sidewalk, they may have to use the external one, which would not be blocked by vehicles. So I think that certainly that segment to the right should certainly not be excepted from the requirement for the sidewalks for that reason, but I think more on the point, as we pointed out, the way the map's oriented here, to the left of this map down slaughter creek drive there's at least 150 plats, arguably up upwards of 170 I think residences or businesses or whatnot. And those individuals would not have any pedestrian access out of that area. And if we remove the requirements for this subdivision to install sidewalk on that, you've now pushed the responsibility of installing sidewalks later down the road to each individual house owner who buys a plat along that line, to my understanding, they would be required to go pay for installing a sidewalk later. So if someone who lives down that neighborhood says do you know what, by golly, I need -- I suddenly find myself in a wheelchair or find myself needing public transit because I can't on afford to upkeep my car and I need a sidewalk and I can't find one. They may bring a lawsuit against the county. You allowed the development to go in without allowing public infrastructure.
>> do you think you can allow a sidewalk and be a.d.a. Compliant?
>> if they build a sidewalk they will have to build one that is a.d.a. Compliant.
>> what's the reason for the request now? Make sure I understand that. You're requesting a variance because?
>> it's a non-curb and gutter road.
>> yes, because it's a non-curb and gutter road.
>> explain that.
>> my understanding is that for saicht reason that you shouldn't have a sidewalk next to a non-curb and gutter road because there needs to be separation. I think anna was sign language that earlier, there needs to be separation between the street and the sidewalk.
>> is that true?
>> generally that's correct. I think there are probably ways of doing it.
>> [inaudible - no mic].
>> what about the situation here, though?
>>
>> [inaudible - no mic].
>> what will it cost to build a sidewalk in the area that you're requesting a variance for?
>> that's probably -- that's probably anywhere from, say, 22 to $28,000, somewhere around that range is probably what that would cost.
>> is that your factor? Is that driving this?
>> no.
>> it's an insignificant cost compared to doing the deal. Judge, I do understand our reticence about having a road and a sidewalk where there are no separations because generally you do like to have the curb like in shady hollow you have the -- you have a curb, but the sidewalk goes all the way to the road. Most of the time when you see a sidewalk you have a little grass strip in between. You obviously have got to consider somebody just driving on the same level as the sidewalk and getting over, especially if the sidewalk is going to be right next to the road, from a safety standpoint. If there's a way for us to -- it makes sense to have a sidewalk. I'm not onsed to that and I -- I'm not opposed to that and I think centex would say if that's what you've got to have we need to sfiend a way that -- to find a way that if we're going to do this, let's make sure we don't put like you all said who you want to be in trouble with, a.d.a. Or you want to be in trouble with whoever sues, if somebody is run over or hit, I would like for our department to let us know exactly how we get that done and it be safe.
>> and the piece I'm focusing in on is from -- where tiller field comes out is that section from tiller field to the right tying into gen ofks a where don just said they would be doing sidewalks on genoa. So that is something where that is an out. Everything to the left is going to have zero access from the neighborhood because there's just no more access there because it's all private property and presumebly fences. And across the street from that is business. And quite frankly when I see a sidewalk it says we encouraging to you down this path. In terms of getting to and from public transit, if you go to the left up towards slaughter lane you are headed towards public transit because that is the city of Austin and that is the capital metro service area, but to the left into unincorporated precinct three you will not be getting any kind of public transit services because they're not in the capital metro service area unless you get all the way down to san leeann in a, which is in. So that is an area we've public transit services, whether there is a sidewalk or not. So I at least want to see it from tiller field over to genoa because that is tying in to where sidewalks would be required and it is getting down to where there is an access point from the neighborhood where there will be sidewalks. So do we need a couple of weeks on this?
>> if I could make two quick statements to that. You raise a good point if and only you consider this new neighborhood, don't consider any of the other 150 plus residents who live to the right in this map who already live there.
>> I've seen them coming in on bill brook.
>> they're not. There is no access. Beyond this point there is no connection between slaughter creek drive --
>> you can't get from slaughter creek drive over to bill brook.
>> there is no -- it's a y, if you will.
>> but I'm lools looking at this is an unincorporated Travis County, not a capital metro service area.
>> okay.
>> so you don't have access to -- you don't have --
>> to my second point, though, the second point I will make is that I don't know what revision of the plat -- proposed platting of the neighborhood this is, but I can tell you on multiple previous plattings the road that runs parallel to the creek on the left side of the map as you see it running top to bottom in this map has originally when we were first presented this platting, that was cut through all the way. So if you remove the requirement for a sidewalk and this platting for whatever reason has to change, that exit may be moved quite a bit back in the neighborhood. Then all of a sudden it opens up a whole lot more pedestrian use along that orange line. So if you remove the requirement as the gentleman from centex has pointed out, you remove the requirement for them to put it in anywhere along that non-curb and gutter section f they replat the land and put an exit on to slaughter creek drive all the way back to the land, they don't have to put a sidewalk in and all of a sudden you have the same problem that we had before.
>> the backup suggests difficulties in trying to build sidewalk. Uferltd what I can --
>> what I can do is have david greer in our office work with their engineer and try to find some kind of -- see if we can find some kind of way to fit everything in there.
>> okay. From a public safety pedestrian traffic point of view, are we better with sidewalks or without them?
>> also for high school, middle school and grade schools. And those large tracts of land that will probably be in this core in the not too distant future asking for small lot subdivisions just like this will all of them want a sidewalk there. And it will probably be the responsibility of the county or the city in the very near future to put sidewalks in there and not at the developer's cost if you deny it. So I'm asking that you please allow sidewalks to be there now.
>> I will like to move towards trying to find a way to do the sidewalks. It makes the most sense. It's what the neighbors -- my gosh, give thean this has been a little controversial he, let's try to find a way to do that action try to find a way from a safety standpoint t that would be where -- that would be where I would like to see this go?
>> January second or January ninth?
>> if they find a way to make it work, I don't know that we would need to bring it back. We would only need to bring it back if we need to ask for the variance.
>> it will be back with on the ninth unless it's resolved. Joe can let me know on the seventh whether it's been resolved or not. If can you make sure that ms. Bow less than has your phone number, she can keep you posted on discussions and negotiations.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:51 PM