Travis County Commissioners Court
August 8, 2006
Item 28
28. Reconsider and take appropriate action on request to reconsider prohibition of metal detectors in Travis County parks. We may have one reconsider too many there. [laughter]
>> thank you. Mr. I figure we can hear from the staff and then from residents who have come down.
>> good morning, I'm roy turley, parks division manager. I will try to briefly walk through where we are at right now. Travis County code after 92, subchapter a, lists our park rules, this was last approved on June 27th. On that date the Commissioners court approved a prohibition of metal detectors in the parks. As we discussed in the past, the park rules are designed to foster cooperation among the users and allow us to pass the parks along to the next generation. Hopefully in a better condition than we found them. Since the adoption of that rule, members of the Commissioners court have received complaints from the metal detector groups, the Austin metal detectors club, they state that -- that they have been in existence for 40 years, they are basically looking for dropped coins or jewelry, the club also states that the metal detectors only look in the first six to eight inches, most of the items are found within two inches of the soil. First two inches of soil. Digging with screwdriver -- digging them out with screwdrivers or hand trowels. We tried list the pros and cons. Basically the metal detectors, they provide an alternate exercise, the users claim to pick up litter and garbage while they are at the parks. Metal detectors can be utilized to find lost jewelry. Metal detecting provides another form of recreation. The metal detector clubs have written rules and ethics. And metal detectors only respond to metal objects, they will not respond to -- to cultural items such as arrow heads, bones or things that are not metal. Metal detectors like to hunt predisturbed areas such as playgrounds, sports fields, volleyball and swimming areas and they use typically as I mentioned earlier screwdriver, hand trowel to dig. From -- from our side, the con side of things, allowing metal detectors could violate the antiquities code and 191.093, which protect archaeological and historic features on public lands, currently Travis County has -- has rules in place that protect its natural environment, limiting anyone from disturbing, destroying or moving from any county parkland, any timber, shrubs, vegetations, rocks, sand, caliche, gravel and so forth. We also have rules in place that ensure the cultural items such as archaeological, palentological, located in, under or around county parkland should be undisturbed. It could run the risk of digging into preexisting facilities that may be near the surface such as telephone lines, the prohibition of metal detectors are consistent with other state, local, federal agencies such as the national park service, Texas parks and wildlife, city of Austin and the lcra. While the metal detector clubs may have written rules and ethics, there are those that may not be a member of that club and do not utilize these rules and ethics.
>> let me ask you this: so -- so what real problems have they caused for us. The use of metal detectors.
>> I don't know that they have caused any problems. Per se. It's -- it's the potential of problems that we are actually looking at.
>> how long to our knowledge have metal detectors been used at county parks?
>> to our knowledge, I can't answer that. I know that some of the users have been at webberville, some of the users were -- have been on the large property that's now the -- these metropolitan -- the east metropolitan park. How far that goes back, I'm not able to say.
>> okay.
>> we are making two recommendations. If I can --
>> okay.
>> one recommendation is that the county maintain this adopted rule prohibiting metal detectors in the county park system. And this should be noted that archaeological and historic features are protected and by allowing users to dig in any public land, they could violate the -- the state code. So that is one option. The second option is -- is use of metal detectors by permit. The conditions of that permit I will be glad to go through if you would like. The -- basically each permit would be at no cost to the user, each individual would require a permit, wouldn't be a group permit. The permit would include the date, time and location of the permit may be used. A copy of the permit must be on the permit holder at all times in the park. A description of the item lost must be included on the permit which searching for lost items. All items found must be recorded and reviewed by t.n.r. Staff. Any items considered historical in nature must be turned over to t.n.r. Staff. Permits will be issued for lost items, general use recreation. And general recreation use parks at this time are [indiscernible] allen, ben fisher, fights hugh, tom hughes and [indiscernible] parks. All other parks zoned for use or non-use including zones for surface use or subsurface use. We don't see a direct cost at this time. However consultants may need to be hired to look at cultural resources, prior to authorizing recreational use. The average cost for a cultural study is from 60 to $100 per acre, so for example moya park with 100 acres would be 6,000 to $10,000 in that area. Also today, mark is here with the Texas historical commission and whenever you like he would be glad to speak to you.
>> what parks with the -- would the permits cover?
>> those right now would include windal run, allen, ben fisher, fits hughes, tom hughes, pearson parks.
>> how did we select those.
>> those are sites that we are pretty much aware that there are no cultural, historic or archaeological finds in that area.
>> those are parks that the metal detectors users use. I know in the past they have used webberville, there are cultural sites at webberville parks that we are concerned about until we get that zoned and -- into a use or non-use area, we wouldn't recommend that they use the park in all areas.
>> okay.
>> mr. Denton?
>> yes, sir. Welcome, by the way.
>> thank you. I'm mark denton, the director of the state and federal section of the Texas historical commission. I am here today representing the commission and our executive director, f. Lawrence oaks. Currently the -- the historical commission and -- the -- our executive director wrote a letter to the -- to the judge last Friday and I think that you have a copy there, we are requesting that any final decisions on these issues be postponed until the historical commission can talk with some of our consulting state agencies about this issue. There are a lot of state-wide ramifications to -- to potentially allowing a metal detecting on public lands. Technically, metal detecting and the associated collection of artifacts off of public lands in the state of Texas is a violation of state antiquities code. In meetings that I attended last week, we discussed the whole gambit of issues and concerns and went back and spoke with other staffers, our executive director. We decided that for instance the -- the first parted of the staff's recommendation about allowing individuals to go out under specific permit to look for an item that they lost, say a wedding ring or something like that, that the historical commission stands ready to authorize that kind of activity. We didn't actually know until we were speaking with the -- with the county staff that apparently the city of Austin currently has a policy like that in place. Where a staff member of the city goes with the individual to sweep an area looking for a wedding ring or something like that and is very specific and that the staff member is there to ensure that they are not just wandering around, digging big holes. The historical commission is prepared to agree that's a no adverse effect to cultural resources. But to -- to open it up to to an open ended collecting in parks, would be difficult issue to deal with. And we would have to consult with our counterparts about the possibility that the state might essentially set up the same system that we would have, if the county for instance was going to do a major development in one of their parks, you also come through us to find out whether or not we think that it's a culturally sensitive area. We might require archaeological investigations of those areas. In the finals we might end up saying no there aren't any significant resources there that are going to be impacted by the construction of this amphitheater or volleyball courts or whatever and that it would be a no adverse effect finding would come back to the county. Well, we have never really considered that possibility relative to metal detecting. But it's possible that that could be done. That areas could be checked out ahead of time, deemed to be not significant resources existing there, obviously here we are talking about historic archaeological resources. And then in theory there could be sort of a cart blanche of no adverse effect for -- for a park. We think some of our thoughts around trying to discuss this -- and trying to discuss this it would probably be impossible to do it. The district did within parks, you would probably have to do an entire park. So that your park -- we weren't trying to figure out are you in or not in the restricted area, most likely you would take one park, sweep the whole thing, make sure that it's not a sensitive area, then that whole park would be available. These issues are state park issues, particularly park and wildlife department, the state has been approached several times during the last few legislative sessions by state-wide metal detector groups to open up state parks for the same sort of -- of activities and currently both we and parks and wildlife department are opposed to that just because of the -- of the uncontrollable nature of the issue. So clearly if this historical commission were prepared to agree to such a thing with Travis County or any other political subdivision, then that would open up the door to the same sort of request being made at a state level.
>> does the state prohibit the use of metal detectors in state park?
>> yes, sir.
>> the letter from -- from executive director oaks says basically asked us to delay action until he's had an opportunity to complete a consultation. Is that five days? Two weeks or what?
>> yeah. Actually it would probably be several months to talk to our counterparts, but more appropriately, we would also have to potentially establish rules. I think if we got an agreement from some of the other state agencies, the u.t. Land system, the general land office, parks and wildlife department, things like that, that this would be feasible then we would probably want to develop formal rules to lay out the procedures for doing this. So that a political subdivision or a state agency could approach the historical commission about -- about getting an agreement to do this on a case by case bifs or something like that -- basis or something like that.
>> [indiscernible] prohibited? Metal detectors on [indiscernible]
>> we don't know of any political subdivisions that are officially allowing such activities. There may be some, but I don't know of any.
>> there's no -- no one --
>> no.
>> they did what we did up until recently. They just didn't address it.
>> yes, sir, I think that's pretty much true.
>> looking forward to the -- what's the city of Austin's position, lcra [inaudible - no mic] you did mention [indiscernible]
>> it is officially -- as far as I know the city of Austin is prohibited except for in the cases where they issued permits to go look for your earnnal item or to -- personal item or to assist someone in looking for their personal item. I lost my wedding ring at hamilton pool or -- not the pool that's a county park. Zilker park or something like that. That you could go with them to do that. Obviously that has a labor intensiveness about it. For the staff of the city. But lcra does not allow any and, you know, folks will be escorted off their property if they are -- if they are caught doing it. Part of this issue has really come to the surface and -- in recent years because the corps of engineers has allowed this to occur on -- in selected areas. On corps property where the corps dredged an area, brought dredged spoil up, put it on a beach, on to an area, therefore new soil that doesn't have artifacts in it. So therefore only folks who have been walking on the beach recently, in recent years and dropping their coin goes and stuff are -- are supposed in that dirt. But on the state level, a lot of folks brought this up for the state, golly gee whiz, if it's okay for the feds, why not for the state.
>> charles, anything different?
>> no, I think mark touched base on everything, you know. The reason why -- why where he brought this to the court was to help define the rules for the park staff. When we have clear definition of the rules out in the field, it helps -- helps our staff administer the parks better. It's not necessarily that we are out trying to pick on the metal detector, that's not the intent. It's basically trying to define the operations in the parks. We knew that this of course kind of a gap and our -- other parks, the lcra and the city of Austin had a similar -- similar rule structure. We were basically trying to get calibrated with theirs. That's really how we got to their point.
>> > walk me through something related to the lcra. A good number of our western Travis County properties are actually on lcra land, the Travis County has a multi-decade interlocal to be able to manage our park operations on lcra land. This has come up before, I'm thinking it was guns, but I will be corrected if it wasn't. That while we didn't have any authority related to I think it was guns, that we were able to not only piggyback on but we needed to adopt their rules they have in place along the colorado river. Help me understand how it is that we can have rules inconsistent with the lcra park rules within our Travis County parks that are on lcra land. It seems like at a minimum, we have to respect or -- I guess the question is really what does the interlocal say in relation to consistency of park rules that the lcra has adopted as a board that trickle down to -- to lcra lands within their system.
>> well, if I remember the interlocal correctly, the lcra does allow us to adopt our own park rules. However, we -- you know, because we manage their properties, we try to incorporate and respect their rule structure and try to get our rules calibrated with theirs so that we are consistent because people are going to -- going to, you know, turkey bend to pace bend, various parks a Lake Travis, we are trying to make the rule structure as similar as possible. It just makes, you know, public use, public education a lot easier for the public. For the staff.
>> so if I were to go to any other lcra property, I'm thinking canyon of the eagles, whatever the thing is down there in bastrop county. I would not be allowed to bring a metal detector on that?
>> that is correct.
>> speaking of the public, in the middle give us your name, I will be glad to get your exents.
>> I'm larry vickers, here to first off thank you for revisiting the idea of metal detecting in Travis County parks. The first thing that we are asking for is recreational detecting, one showing right here in front of us, that we are looking for public use lands that are predisturbed. As defined by the rules, predisturbed means soils has been moved to dig fire pits, to put in a table, to put in basketball courts or anything else. As I understand it, this describes predisturbed. We are not looking to go out and dig in far off corners looking for relics in this. We have private property that we do that on. All that we are looking for is coins and jewelry. Archaeological protection act of '79 that exempted both coins, scwiewlry and minerals of being archaeological significance. We are not looking to violate a coin back in 1850s is still not arc logically significant if one were to be found. I doubt it because our parks, one of the parks that I frequent or did frequent the most was moya park. And I have -- and because that's in my precinct, excuse me. And that -- we are looking at, this is also a family activity, men and women and kids all go out looking for, you know, this quarter or dime or whatever has been lost in the sand pits, in the volleyball courts and stuff. Over the period of time yes we do find, you know, some jewelry. If you are looking at the value of the jewelry, most wedding bands, if you will look at them, their true value is scrap value, less than 20 bucks. We spend much more on batteries to get out there to do our hobby. Mostly you know a lot of us guys are a little bit overweight, this is one of the ways we as citizens use our parks to get some activity. We are not in the shape to walk and run like some of the 30 and 40-year-olds are. So we feel like this, you know, is a way that we get to use our parks. And as we mention, they -- over here, they only do find metal objects. They will find gum wrappers, aluminum cans, can tops all kinds of things some of the things are lead items. Bullets, fishing weights, car weights, stuff like this. We pick them up and dispose of them properly. And twawlgd too as long as as -- it wasn't too long agowe ruf syringes and needles, we pick them up, everything that we pick up we dispose of that we find. You will find most of our club carrying big bags for trash or five gallon buckets to put this in to go dump it in the proper disposal. We do not find coins in. [bagpipes playing] s. If you -- in big bags, if you found $3 worth of coins in a park you are probably real lucky because you have had somebody out there doing a coin pitch playing a game, they are just not there. They don't lose that much. The other thing is where we only use tools appropriate, as he was mentioning, I think that for the area to leave it undamaged. If it's in a grassy area, we will use a screwdriver or some kind of a narrow probe. Sand area, we will take a little hand trowel, move the sand to find our target, put it back. We always leave the soil in the same condition or better condition than when we came. One of the other things that we could be probably an extra set of eyes out there for safety. And moya park again is where I'm going. I have been approached out there in the past by several women coming up asking if they could stand and talk with me because they thought somebody was following them. I would say sure. We would sit there and talk for five or six minutes, the person would get in their car and leave. I have no idea if they were or weren't. But this is something that they felt safe approaching me as a metal detectorrist. There were other people in the park. Same thing, two kids that wanted to look for mamma. Metal detecting around a table and the little one was a little boy, one was a little girl. They come up there, hey, miss center, can you help me find my momma. Sure. What's your momma look like. Well, she's big. Okay. So you are now looking at a three-year-old, what's a big mamma? It turns out that these just normal adults that for some odd reason the kid had gotten behind a tree, couldn't see her. We managed to hold their hands and find their parents and in one case it was a mother, another case it was a daddy, they were all really appreciative. So we are not out there to get rich or anything else. It's a normal part of exercise. Now we have for years like we used to do Travis County parks, we do Williamson county, hays county, gillespie, customer, blanco and burnet. Kerr. They have no problems with us metal detecting in there. We actually have up toes that have asked us to come out and work in metal detect their park because they find out the amount of trash that we pick up that their people don't find. We have been asked by hutto, taylor, floresville, marble falls and la grange to come down and melts detect in their city parks. Gy as a courtesy to those folks, set up a date, as many as can will drive down and search their parks. And although we do not have the rights to metal detect in the state parks, the last time through the legislature we did get a totally through the senate. It did not get out of the house committee but we did get approved for predisturbed areas in the state of Texas. There's also 38 states currently that currently allow metal detecting in the state parks, we can provide you with those, we don't have them all here listed. As is mentioned the one that we are most trying to model Travis County after is the corps of engineers. We have been successful since 1989 with them. Having searched daily use predisturbed areas, which is basically the beaches, both water and sand. And around picnic areas that they have moved, fire pits and so forth. So this is what we are asking for. I thank you.
>> okay. Thank you.
>> I have a quick question. Do you have a sense of when the city of Austin changed its rules and basically it a permit lost item kind of thing?
>> I'm not really sure, I do know that in 1982, I was one that signed off on permits for us to hunt barton springs park. This was good up until 2003.
>> I guess my question is really in reverse. Have you all been to the city of Austin or the lcra board to basically request that they change their rules to allow you all back into those facilities.
>> we have. We have with lcra and are continuing to work with them now. And the city of Austin, we have approached the park department, which -- which right now does not want to consider it, we have not approached the council or the -- or the others in the -- in the directors.
>> do you not see that it's maybe a little bit significant just here in Travis County that all of the rules be consistent and if you were indeed successful in convince the hays lays -- convincing the lcra and the city of Austin to reverse their rules or modify their rules, that that would be something that wed we would take a look at. Right now we are the only ones who don't and you just said it right there. Predisturbed. That -- that -- some of the few things that we have got that are designated predisturbed happen to be athletic fields which are inappropriate for people to be going on unless you have lost a wedding ring. Army corps of engineers in and of itself, it's a very designated thing. Other places for you to go, unless we sort this --
>> it would be all of the kids playgrounds, volleyball nets, fire pits or things like that are predisturbed because the found has been moved, cord to your rules, that you can't do any of this without a survey of the ground before this.
>> well, I guess I'm going back to east metro, when they were doing the construction of east metro, they wound up finding some historical sites that they didn't know about until they actually started predisturbing the earth. So I'm just -- I'm just -- I'm respectful of your hobby. But I'm telling you where I'm at. I'm trying to also be respectful of what state law is. This is a whole lot more complicated than just somebody wanting to do their hobby and so I am -- where my head is at is going to be respecting we need more time and to keep the -- the -- in place in terms of my vote to be consistent with all of our other jurisdictions within Travis County.
>> like I said, y'all happen to be the last one that came with the rule and hence forth this was currents so this is the one that we approach first. We are truly going to approach lcra and we are going to -- we are going to do the city of Austin. And if we change them, we don't change off we will be back, I promise you.
>> yes?
>> yes. My name is lonnie nelson, thank you for allowing me to address you all this morning about a hobby that's near and dear to my heart. You have been a resident of Travis County for 26 years. Also I'm a member of the Austin metal detecting club. One of the things that I wanted to say is that we have quite a large club and we are just regular folks. A November of whom are in the audience. Many people who detect our retired folks, just looking at my mellow detectorrists, we have a retired law enforcement, u.t., high tech, just we are just regular folks.
>> > Travis County retirees there, too?
>> department of human services.
>> hey, all right.
>> yeah.
>> but I never realized when I retired how much fun metal detecting would be. I don't want to belabor the issue. But in my experience, of meeting with detectorrists both in our club and in other states, everywhere I go, I think that -- that detectorrists are responsible. They dig, if you want to use the word dig appropriately for the place and particularly in parks we have great respect for the public use by others and the possibility of artifacts being present. I think the concept of digging holes is somewhat of an image or a generality that isn't always the case. What I use, particularly in the parks, is a probe. And all that you do is when you are de-- when your detector hits a target, if you turn this on, it will pinpoint the object and usually most everything that I think we are looking for, coins, other little things, are right below the surface or you can retrieve them simply by moving your foot or just putting your hand out. We are not out to be digging holes. We are very conscious of roots, all of those other things. Personally, I'm saddened. I live out near -- well on Lake Travis. I can't go to windy point, pace bend, any of those places that I used to love to go in the morning and just quietly stroll along the edge of the water and what really excites me is finding an occasional old coin like a buffalo head nickel or something like that. We do pick up all of the trash. My husband always laughs. He says when I come home, I know where you have been. All of the trash. Also, I -- and I appreciate and understand that we are -- we live in an area where some of the other entities have these rules. However, in the other areas that I have been travelling, I just got back from new england and it's totally different. Everywhere you go, they allow detecting, not only allow it, they welcome you. We -- our -- we are able to find and return a number of lost items. In fact we have -- we have just the other day randy returned a class ring, I returned a class ring, larry, whenever we find things that we think we can find the owner, we go out of our way to do that. Keys, whatever it may be. I just think that it's not the detectorists that are doing any damage. It's just a hobby. Like any other user of the park facilities, anything can be abused. We could have jet skis in the swimming area or we could have, you know, wolves in the picnic area. But we detect responsibly. I think the rules should be not no detectors, but maybe no digging up with big shovels or something to that effect. Just in closing I want to share something that I remember from years ago. When I was growing up, I was working on a big science project. After struggling with it, for I don't know how long, I went to my dad, I said dad, it's just not going to work. And he looked at me and said, honey, think it through, your thinking is too narrow. I bet if you sit down, you can come up with a number of ways that it will work. And it did. I remember that to this day in my daily, his words of looking at options and possibilities rather than it not working.
>> plus the idea of a free permit -- how does the idea of a free permit sound to you?
>> cool. But I just respectfully request that you consider the possible options in working with us, I really believe that it would work and our club has a committee and we are preparing to approach lcra, city of Austin and it just so happened with this ruling coming down bingo here we are today first. But this is something that we are working on because we really feel that it's a viable hobby and also we have prepared some of these booklets to kind of tell about detecting as well as the Austin club. So to leave with you.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> we will need those two chairs because others may want to give testimony today. Anybody else? Are knees three speaking for you -- are these three speaking for you? Yes, sir, others may want to give brief testimony, new and different.
>> my name is art teaman, wanted to address, you asked my about hunting in the parks. I have hunted in the parks for years, been invited to hurnts in the parks for -- to hunt in the parks for year. I have taught park policemen how to use metal detectors in some cases. Mr. Turley, I have given numerous items that were found and mr. Davis I offered to give them and return them items that were found in an area that has now become a Travis County park.
>> you brought my name in it.
>> I did.
>> in what regard.
>> when you were at manor schools, I met up with you and mr. Turley over there when you all were addressing the park at blake manor. At that time I offered to you and mr. Turley and another gentleman that was there everything that had been found in that park, that is now a park.
>> hold on. I don't recall that. I don't know if bob does, but I don't recall you --
>> we have a lot of people you meet, so do i. [multiple voices]
>> as far as relics are concerned. I wanted to make that for the record I don't recall what you are suggesting there.
>> I understand. And I think mr. Turley will remember coming out to my house and picking up and retrieving a number of items.
>> actually, it's -- I don't -- I don't recall that. I believe john kuhl from our staff may have --
>> they are still in my truck, I will go get them if you want them.
>> john will you come up.
>> finish, please.
>> [multiple voices]
>> if you want to give testimony, come forward. About to go to lunch in a few minutes here.
>> I hunt in the parks. I never go into a park without asking permission. I always trying to find a manager say is it all right, is there some place that you want me to go particularly. When one of the parks had a new building built, I was asked to go find the screws that were left on the ground from the metal roof which I did. I have been asked to hunt in specific areas to remove nails, fish hook, sinkers, things like that. I'm not interested in historical site. If I have one in a park, I guarantee you I will flag it, tag it, cull an archaeologist, call an archaeologist, here it is, g.p.s. It for me. I do that with the state cemetery, with archaeologists right now. I recently hunted an archaeological site with a number of other participants in state areas with archaeologists presence tagging for them to make it easier for them to locate objects and it won't be long and we will be doing some of those with lcra. I have no intention of harming any archaeological sites whatsoever in any form, style, shape or fashion. My hobby includes two things and one of those is just fun hunting.
>> [indiscernible]
>> yes, sir.
>> thank you, sir.
>> you all need a demonstration of any of this equipment, we will be glad to come out at any time and provide you with that.
>> that detect something under the soil, then you basically try to find out exactly where it is, you go get it.
>> 90% of the time, sir, when I dig a hole, you complaint tell that I have been there -- you can't tell that I have been there when I left. Most of the time, if you could find it it would be really hard to find it, including grass or ground or sand. Most of the stuff that I find I can pinpoint within two inches, we will be glad to teach anybody that wants to learn how to do the same thing.
>> okay.
>> I will even provide you with classes if you want.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> yes, sir. Randy, I have been a member with the Austin metal detecting club for quite a number of years now. I don't do much anymore, I am still a good standing member. I have been a metal detector for a long time. As they have mentioned we do not destroy archaeological sites and dig up arrow heads and sell them and other things. We do respect them and will continue to respect them. We want to work with them and with everybody and not against them and I don't -- I don't understand, I understand there's rules and regulations and as the gentleman over there was saying earlier, I just hope that -- that they look over everything and review everything so we can work together instead of working against each other. All of you all know when you work against each other, nothing gets accomplished. You waste a bunch of time. Important time that you could be using towards something else. So I -- I would just like to put that in there to please take into consideration and call us and contact us and let's work together and for the last thing, I do work, I don't work for them, but I am a volunteer citizen on patrol with the Pflugerville police department, at times I get called out to look for weapons that was used in different things and also volunteer some of my time to ride out with them and help with the community and I am involved with that community. I want to thank you all so much for listening and just please take into consideration because we want to work with you all and not against you. Thank you very much for your time.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> yes, my name is ray nowles, pardon my frog gee geeness, I just came from a rocky mountain high and I have got laryngitis. One of the things that I noted while I was up there, I was doing trout fishing, they don't allow lead sinkers, I want you to know that I have a can of lead that I have obtained in probably six months of metal detecting. So we are environmentalists. We believe in our parks and we are a part of that. I have only been metal detecting for a couple of years. I had a deacon in my church that got me started. I thought what's so exciting about that. It's just about like treasure hunting. Everything that you find is a treasure. I have received, found several old coins. The first thing that always comes to my mind is who did this belong to at one time, how did it get here, what is the story behind this treasure that I have found? And whenever I have folks over to the house they are always really excited to see all of the different art -- different things that I have found, old watches and some -- some -- certainly I have -- I had no idea that there were so many what they call pull tabs that were laying on the ground and beer cans and stuff like that. It just drives me nuts trying to figure out whether it's a beer can or whether it's a legitimate item because our metal detectors it's hard to tell with some of the different items. For example a nickel will ring exactly the same or the numbers will be exactly the same as a pull tab. So I have probably picked up 5,000 pull tabs and 100 coins. So it's a challenging but yet very rewarding hobby because I know that I am recovering things that have been lost for a long, long time. It just exciting to know that's a part of it. I just would like for you to consider, it can start here. Obviously we have to work with other entities. But it could start here with you saying yes, let's give some kind of an annual permit for these people to be monitored, to have to wear a badge when you are detecting, whatever, just some way that we can prove to you, to give us a chance to be honorable, be legitimate and obey the regulations and rules as set forth. One thing to understand, too, when they -- when they go and dig up an area, they are usually going to dig up a lot more than five or six inch, which is the -- the depth that most of our metal detectors will detect. It will only detect about that far underground. If you have a city underneath or a cemetery or something like that, you are never going to see anything like that. We would never be able to detect something like that. Especially something to consider, too. As part of our parks, one of the things that really frustrates me is we are very, very limited with the place that's we can serve our area. I live in the oak hill area. Commissioner Daugherty is my Commissioner. And I have sent him e-mails, he's respected me by answering those, I appreciate that so much. What we want to do is just be able to have a chance to prove to you that we can be an asset to Travis County -- if you will look at these books just for a moment, see some of the pictures of the trash that we have picked up from different areas, I think that you will be impressed with that. I want to thank you for your time.
>> thank you for coming down.
>> yes, sir?
>> yes.
>> I would just like to mention one other thing in regards to what some of the gentlemen were saying earlier about the dirt being disturbed. I'm not trying to I guess I could use the word throw any egg into any other areas. But if you will go to a like bull creek park or a park that's on a corner of riverside drive and i-35, where there were dog parks, I remember they used to be beautiful parks, now they are just torn up by the dogs. You know the dirt is erosion, they are trying to get a lot of that under control. Move dirt around, got big rocks in there, doesn't look like they have completed it or are still in the process, they have just, you know, ruined it, supposed to have dog leashes out there. One of you all, I invite one you all, encourage any of you all in favor, signify by saying aye. Of you all to go out there on a Sunday afternoon see how many dogs are running loose. If one of those dogs bit somebody who is going to be held responsible? Somebody may be going to court. That's going to take taxpayers money away, could be spent. If you all go through on a Sunday, I would think that would be something that you might want to look at, trying to enforce that. You have got horses loose in certain parts, too. They tear up things, people going with boat trailers, tires spinning. If you have got arrow heads, things that wanted to be protected in that. That's another area that I would like for you to consider, too, instead of just looking and talking to metal detectors.
>> john, could you try to make some correction of the statement made earlier about mr. Turley and I receiving artifacts. Could you go ahead for the record specify exactly what happened as far as those artifacts is concerned out in precinct 1.
>> I would be happy to Commissioner Davis.
>> thank you, I appreciate that.
>> john kuhl, environmental officer with the county. Just must have been a couple of years now, I believe this organization -- I recall maybe perhaps that you would be in there, too. Actually the issue that they raised had to do with -- with the regulation of local folks and some schools in the area that might have been affected by the east metro park project. Which of course we had already had a cultural resources survey done out there. And had worked with the thc. As a matter of fact mr. Denton specifically to make sure that through the design and planning and implementation of the c.i.p. Project that we would not impact certainly any sites that were eligible for listing as state archaeological landmarks or anything of that nature. We felt pretty sure if there was an historic school site on the tract that we would have known about it. We actually had on cultural resources expert who contracted with us from lays wlais attend that site meeting -- from lcra attend that site meeting. That was sort of the issue that got us out there. The secondary and perhaps primary issue from their perspective was the issue of metal detecting in the future of that. We launched into a discussion of that and found out that they had been, you know, with full sounded like with full authority, you know, doing metal detecting on the lawrence tract and had in fact gathered quite a few artifacts and to that actually I believe it was mr. Gieselman replied well could we get those back? And mr. Teaman said certainly follow me to my house. It was about a mile or two away around the corner. We went and he proceeded to grab a bunch of stuff next to the barn and to this day I carry that in the back of my truck because I have been meaning to box it up and get it to mr. Denton. I think we actually had a conversation about it, mr. Denton said no rush. That's what I recall about the circumstance. I do not recall that you were there, but --
>> he was not there that day.
>> no.
>> at that meeting.
>> so that's what -- that's what happened.
>> straighten that out. I do not have any artifact in my possession, neither. [laughter] I just wanted to let the public know thinking that Commissioner Davis is going out there with his own metal detector bringing in artifacts all of this other kind of stuff.
>> mr. Teaman and mr. -- mr. -- you and mr. Turley do kind of resemble each other.
>> that maybe a --
>> referring to the artifacts --
>> they appeared to be primarily pieces of farm implements that. As great point because I do not have the expertise to evaluate all of those artifacts. His agency does or a contractor with that expertise might. That was sort of our whole rationale here is that our primary responsibility is as a political subdivision of the state to comply with the state law and this seemed like the simplest way to do it. That's all.
>> can we give the state two weeks or three weeks to let us know what it has in mind? Mr. Denton you know mr. Oaks better than we do. If he were here, would he ask for two or three weeks.
>> I am sure at least three weeks. We could talk with some of our counterparts, particularly lcra and parks and wildlife department very quickly and let you know what they feel bit. Because obviously it will have a fairly big effect on them. Relative to if we decide we are going to head in that direction and develop rules, then we would probably ask you to hold off until after we had those rules in place. And regrettably that would probably take about -- about four to six months to go through that process. Of state rule making. But it's feasible that we could move forward quicker than that. So yeah I think within three weeks we can get back with you about our discussions with lcra and parks and wildlife department.
>> we are planning to take three weeks on this. I will have legal questions this afternoon for the as assistant county attorney who poses expertise in this area. But for the residents who came down, we appreciate your participation. We will have it back on the court's agenda in three weeks. We will decide then what we plan to do. Yes, sir?
>> judge, before everybody leaves, I appreciate you coming down. I'm certainly respectful of that. I don't know if there's going to be a motion, I would tell you if I could vote today I would vote to rescind what we voted for because I think my god all of the things that we deal with in this world government-wise, I mean, we have got something that's so benign here. If this is something that a bunch of law abiding citizens, somebody could say maybe you are not if you are out doing this because state law says you can't do it. I understand it. If you were out there with a backhoe, I may feel much differently about this. But everybody that I have seen, you know, with these pieces of equipment out, I mean, if it is not the most benign thing that we can have take place in our society, thank got somebody is doing something like this. Thank god. Versus some of the other things that we have to deal with. I am respectful of the antiquities code and certainly willing to work with the state on that. But I will tell you that as a precinct 3 Commissioner, I hope that nobody calls me from law enforcement from parks and tells me that they have got somebody that's doing something like this out here because I think that it's perfectly fine to do it. I wish that we could take action today, but we are going to do what we have to do, thank you for coming down and for the efforts that you put forth and this is government at work y'all.
>> thank you.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Last Modified:
Tuesday, August 8, 2006 8:14 PM