Travis County Commissioners Court
August 1, 2006
Item 24
Number 24 to take consideration on draft ordinance and set for public hearing on September 5, 2006.
>> while Gerald is setting up, we want to just reiterate, the generally topic here is a new draft ordinance that tnr is proposing, an alternative to a traditional subdivision platting process. It is voluntary in terms that it's not of development in Travis County. It's merely an option they can use if it fits their particular need. The objecttive of the ordinance overall is to increase the amount of open space in Travis County, open space dedicated to development process. This ordinance, we have had joe lisard under contract working with us. This particular ordinance that you have before you today is the tenth draft of the ordinance which means it's gone through quite a few stakeholders. We have tried to incorporate as much as possible the comments and good thinking that we have heard about this topic from almost everybody, land developers, planners, community at large, environmental interests. So it reflects already at this point some of the best thinking that we can bring to bear on the subject of conservation development. We would like today to kind of work through the ordinance just so that you're aware of all the particulars. And perhaps highlight the discussion today on the incentive section, the incentives provided by Travis County, the proposed incentives, because it really is a policy decision on the part of the court on just how many of those incentives, if any, you would like to provide as part of the ordinance. The other is, there is a certain delegation of authority to the executive manager that is perhaps not typical of your traditional subdivision regulations. So we want to make sure the court is comfortable with that as well. Are we ready?
>> if we can just get media to go to the slide show on the laptop.
>> thank john, we're on our way out.
>> appreciate it. Just so you know, joe lisard, we did hand out paper copies so the court does have those as well.
>> all right.
>> okay. Should be ready to go.
>> all right.
>> good afternoon, my name is joe lisard. I have been working on this for seems close to about a year now seems like. I think we started in September last year. So we are getting close to a year anniversary. So it's good time to celebrate by presenting it to you again. If you recall, we presented to you several months ago, the initial graft, which the first public draft which was draft number 5 and now we're up to 10. Hopefully we won't have to count much higher than 10. The first slide, what we, some of this you have seen before, we edited a little but but for the public we would like to run through quickly so people see the entire context of what we are presenting. This is a new type of subdivision development that the county would be contemplating. It's an optional approach to the traditional that is currently in your code. By that, it is voluntary by the landowner or develop tor pursue. The orientation is to support a rural life-style that we have seen around the country, a growing market for individuals who would like to own property in a rural or natural setting. This order than is targeted at that market niche. At this point we don't anticipate that the market for this type of subdivision is very broad, a large marketplace, but it's a niche and ads something to your code where you are contemplate an alternative approach and eases the way for that to happen. Dñtch. It preservers open space as a development asset. The word there is a very consciously chosen word because we want to change the paradigm from our development instead of trying to work around environmental items, the actually begin to incorporate them as an asset to the development so that they create value for the developer or the landowner. Conservation space is designed to protect sensitive areas, to do an eke lodge col study of each side--ecological study and identify key areas that will be included in what we are colge conservation space in the subdivision. The developer imper have ious cover is reduced. It implies there will be a reduction in density in each project. Open space is managed, the open space created, conservation space that is created through this process is managed to retain its natural value so that the space being set aside today will still have its values ten, 10, 20, 30 years into the future future. Promotes resource conservation. There's a section in the ordinance that talks about energy and with the and materials conservation. And lastly, we believe that this type of approach to development because of reduction in density and the more efficient use of land has the potential for reducing governmental costs for providing services. Moving into the next slide. The process for doing this type of development is very much like a golf course community. That's the best analogy we can think of from a planning perspective. In a golf course community you lay out the course first and then you come in and lay in the roads and the lots around the golf course. You try to design it in a way where you maximize the value on the lots. The frontage on the green space, the view on green space and so forth creates value for a developer. And the planning process is very similar to here. First you do an ecological assessment of the property. The key areas that are, that can be seen as assets or ecological assets are included in a conservation space. Then the lot lines and roads are designed around that and with the same idea, the maximum front ang and views and so forth create view for the developer. What developers are finding around the country, there is a premium you can charge for the lots with these types of attributes of green space and views. That pretty much is the process in correct format. Next chart, the conceptual ordinance lays out what is again the key characteristics. Characteristics.. [one moment please for change in captioners]
>> if you recall in the southwest Travis County growth dialogue, that community process identified about half a dozen locations where the comnt felt that -- community felt that commercial development was appropriate even in a rural setting. So they identified some elections where we believed as a potential model here that in these locations you want to draw development to, the density it these locations so there are nents here that are related to drawing the commercial twoament to these commercial -- development it those commercial elections. And last there's a buyout provision here. Once you've entered into a contract with the county, then the developer understands he has predictable. He has a right to incentives if he meets the standards that you adopt. So the buy right provision provides the developer some certainty that if he spends money in land planning and echo logical studies and legal fees, once he has entered into the agreement, he has earned the right to have his subdivision approved by the county. That was a key item as we tacked to the development community and landowners that they wanted it necessity there was certainty -- wanted it know there was certainty. They want it know there's certainty, time and money. All three of those in in this ordinance to have developers use this approach in their development concept. This slide talks about the minimum standards for conservation development. I'm going to go through these very quickly pause I want you it be aware of them. It going to take more than one preparation for you to get an understanding of the physical-up and discussion with the community is probably the ms helpful way to understand had you those had you these work. In this approach we're suggesting that 50% of the property would be put into conservation space. That's consistent with the dripping springs ordinance, it consistent with -- I believe it's one other ordinance in Texas that create a conservation development in the dallas area, the metroplex area, and they are also using I believe the 50% level. Nationally the cfbvation space is between 30 and 50% depending on the characteristics of development in that area. So in this case we've sort of come down in the middle, which seems to be what the trebd is in technique. We've also defined what is meaningful to the ek ecological study will be preserved. There is 150-foot wide minimum widz or depth in the conservation spay and that is at least half of the space will be 1 it 50 and the other half is 3 hub feet t has value to wildlife and water quality in the space being set aside, particularly wildlife. 300-foot is sort of when you look around in the discussion nationally about how much ought to be set aside, 300-foot and 150 are often referenced. We've split the baby in the middle here. We've gone with the 1 it 50 to give the land planner some plexibility, but we've set up the 300 feet so there's wildlife preserveability to the preserve. At least 10 acres, we want a minimum size so it has ecological value. This means that it would be set aside and if 10 acres is your 50 percent that means the smallest size the property that would come you should this ordinance on a normal basis would be a 20-acre parcel of land. 50% set aside for open space and 50% if development. The ordinance talks about maintaining the character of the roadways and the bound tries of the property so that you retape the rural look -- retain the rural look of the area. The roadways will have a 75-foot set back on each side so you have that sense that you're in surgical Travis County. And then -- rural Travis County. And then the boundary of the property is 75 feet so those people who buy in the property are assured that someone isn't going to build right up to the boundary of the property and overshadow their development when they think they're buying into a rural sort of natural setting. Also what that fif foot works out well is if you have two ajay September properties both coming under this orps, then the distance between the development is 50 feet. It works well if there are tw ajay September conservation -- adjacent conservation developments. Also quite often when you look around the country, active recreation space is included in the cfbvation space -- conservation space. In our case our orientation is to retain natural space, wildlife space, but we also understand that some recreational uses are an open use of open space. So up to 10% of the conservation space can be active recreation areas, ball fields and parks. We want to encourage that in our life-style as well. 50% will be conservation areas and we mean that there are certain areas that are protected for water quality in your ordinances. The floodplain, setbacks from critical environmental features and so fortz. Those areas can account for up to 50% of the conservation space being set aside. Wastewater disposal can also be included in conservation space and it can account up to five percent or 10 percent depending opinion which ward they're in, east or west. The difficult ren shaition here is that what we're really tar getting is drip irrigation. That's how those numbers were determined. Last on this page is that the -- there is a required bfer from impervious cover. If have you a roadway going through our conservation space, we understand you may have to have a driveway to connect the different development pods within your property, but if you do put impervious cover through, we're asking for a 25% buffer from that impervious cover to make sure all the space you're getting credit for, that 50%, is truly conservation area or buffer area. It's not roadways or driveways orer infrastructure included in the conservation area. Goik on next page -- going on next page, the rural character buffers are 75 feet. We also want to promote the herk preservation, but it needs to have a buffer if it's adjacent to a developed area. So we're asking for a 100-foot buffer from important historic areas. The impervious cover is limited to 15%. What this does is promotes the idea of clustering that goes hand in hand that we will have open space. And the incentive here is for you to cluster and have February% of the impervious cover that's will youked. -- 15%.
>> you don't have the question of any seniority of net or gross in -- sort of gross or net, given that it a conservation development. 15% you're really saying that this is a froas site 15% -- gross site 15%.
>> all these percentages are gross site. The net site when you work with it, it gets confusing. People don't understand what it really means. We're trying to keep it simple and straightforward and simply go with a growth site calculation. And we believe that the 15% is adequate for should be to develop the balance of their 50% of the prt. Property. And also when we get to the variances there are variances that will you you to go above the 15%. There are ways that you can use impervious cover or you can use rainwater capture and a number of items which are basically taken from the lcra highland lakes water quality ordinance where you can get additional credit so you can actually create hard surfaces above the 15%, but it done in a way that doesn't create water quality issues. So you can actually go above 15% in term of hard surfaces, but we'll get to that in a moment. There will be a reduced roadway and driveway standards. These are again identified as rural settings. We need to slow the traffic done, will you the developer to develop with less impervious cover and not be required to have the same level of impervious cover on all of his roadways. We want to turn these into small communal neighbors that are more in pace. This is had you these items are handled around the country. Your staff has been working on those and I think they will have an appropriate set of design criteria and standards for you to look at when they come forward into the design manual that goes with this ordinance. Lastly, the enforcement that goes through an ordinance and requires you to require a biannual license. You would have a permit and you would have the ability to make sure they're in line with the requirements of the ordinance in perpetuity. The next page, energy, water and materials conservation. These are all becoming much more important issues with the energy costs being what they are and discussions about dwindling oil supplies and so fort and the allocation of water throughout Texas. So we feel it appropriate to include these type of items in here. And the process here is it's a self-regulated process. The developer has to monitor and regulate themselves and report to your staff. We are not trying to build the new administrative bureaucracy that's going to check and whatever, although you have that option in the ordinance. But this is really a self-enforcement process where they validate what's goik on with the staff instead of requiring you to have additional work load and people in community checking on what's being built and expecting.
>> the standards here again are standards that we believe in each of these items that are relatively easy to achieve. Thaw not unreasonable is it. We didn't try to cm up with a real high bej mark. We tried it come up with a reasonable benchmark that builders or developers are familiar with already or can easily become familiar with and achieve. I won't go through all of them. I think these are prebl the best -- the standards written out here, I don't need to read all of them. I think the best feedback is from community in your public hearing process when you get to it. One of the things that we also acknowledge on the neck page, page 8 of your document, is that there are other communities that are also creating their standards. And in particular, san antonio, dallas and houston are establishing standards that are very, very similar to these, almost exactly the same as these. And so I thought if you are certified or if you have -- come in withner program that you're already meeting these standards and they're relatively compatible with your standards that they would substitute for yours. Again, we want to make it easy for a developer who is already doing work to use the standard or approach that he's comfortable with. If you're from one of the communities that's already doik this work you're already across the goal line in terms of meeting these requirements. It's a self-certification program, but it does will you the county to did inspection to make sure people are legitimate in their self-certification process. On page 9, I talked about the periphery twoament areas. These are the areas that you would identify and twie so that people would know exactly where they are. Our recommendation is you do it through some type of community planning process like the southwest Travis County growth dialogue. The community seems to identify and understand the need for these type electrics and we believe that's a good process to get community to buy into the concept. Here we run into an issue that is very important. And that is that -- I want to slow down to tawlt about it. You will see here on this second bullet, 2-a here, is the idea of preserved uses. We anticipate that there are some uses that you do not want to provide uses to, even if they are in a preferred development area or for that matter even if they're not in a preserved commercial area anywhere, that you may want want to be -- that the disig to give them -- decision to give them nents should be an -- incentives should be an independent decision. If should be is coming in and doing -- if someone is coming in and doing a noxious use, our anticipation is if you want thoam do a cfbvation subdivision, that should be a separate decision you make. It shouldn't be automatic. When someone wants to put a rendering plant in next to a residential community and they think they can get snebts incentives, the answer is no. We've identified a potential of reserved uses. So when you look through the ordinance please take a look at that definition very carefully because we talk about everything from big box retally to noxious uses to a variety of potential items there that we think it more posh for the court to -- more important for the court to make individual decisions on.
>> it does not mean that that same type of knox noxious facility couldn't locate on an adjacent property right next to this prt in the future. That doesn't m.b.e. That. --mean that.
>> I want to make sure that we're talking about in the quoiz of what we're -- quiepz of what we're -- owe confines of what we're dealing with. We don't have that land use authority to dictate where unwelcomed or unwanted type of twoament locating next it residential and businesses and things like that are till a menace and a nuisance in my opinion until the legislature changes that and gives us some relief. That heabt happened yet. -- hasn't happened yet. I don't want anyone thinking what you're saying is outside of the quiebz of what we're -- confines of what we're talking about. Let's make that real clear on the public.
>> this reserve ration only applies to being a conservation development and whether or not you receive incentives. What we're saying is if you want to receive incentives under this ordinance, it's a separate decision if you meet one of the reserved uses. That's all we're talking about, you're exactly correct.
>> okay.
>> because the prefd areas are commercial areas, the standards are different. We want the intensive twoament in these locations, so the percentage for open space is reduced, the requirements for ecological assets within conservation area is reduced. The number of acres, all those numbers are changed to accommodate a commercial development area versus a residential twoament area. So you see that all these items are changed, including the width, instead of being 300 feet, it's 100 feet for the witdz of a conservation space. Instead of being a 10-acre minimum, it's two acres.
>> joe, a number of us were yesterday at the sh 130 meeting. Did you dpiez have any discussion about billboard? Because there's very little discretion related to billboards, but it seems like if we're tacking about some of our especially far west and far northeast out in rural areas, billboards are a huge problem related to protecting some of our roadway corridors, keeping the rural nature, keeping the beautiful nature. It seems like that ought to be something that is covered in terms of signage, but I would especially say the word billboard.
>> if this rns, if you recall, we have the 75-foot set back, the rural character. And someone who uses this ordinance, they are required to give you that 75-foot set back, and they are in the allowed to to any signage except for direction signs in that character buffer that we're trying it create.
>> we are already seeing some things up in the Round Rock area of people who are really pushing the envelope related to what is sigh acknowledge for -- signage for that apartment complex and we are already seeing huge abuses of the billboard thing of people putting things out in the middle of nowhere related to billboard. So I will put this little asterick of we need to have some more discussions, I think. I think if we're truly intending to preserve the rural character, it does not include bill bores. That's a noxious use, thank you, Margaret.
>> there may be a number of other items that you can take action on where you would have more control in that area. It wasn't really the scope of the work that we were trying to do here, buttic it meshes with what we've done.
>> I think you need to get them to buy off on it so you don't need to go in after the fact and say oh, my god, what happened here.
>> let me move on to paiblg 11. There's a change in impervious cover. It was 15%, but in the commercial dwement areas it's 45% on a gross level. What that means is if you're setting aside 30% of your property and you're developing on the 70% and your impervious cover is 45%, that your impervious cover on the developed portion is about 70, 71 percent, and that's within the rake of what a commercial development area ought to be is about 70 and still retain some green space in that area so that the area is not all concrete or impervious cover. Again, we assumed that in these locations roadway standards apply. There is still the requirement for the ecological asset management plan for the areas that are set aside and then they are also enforced through the owners association. One of the things that's didn't in this part of the ordinance is that if you're in a preferred commercial development area and you want to be this type of development, you can do your set aside off property. You can join with other commercial property owners in that preferred location and jointly set aside a park or a fwreen or a commons or a natural area it that is an amenity for the entire commercial area rather than putting it all on your property. So there's a way to do that in this oshs that ordinance that allows you to join together and create a commons that becomes an asset to that commercial center. Then again they have the same standards for conservation, resource conservation. The application process raises -- actually gives us an tupt to create an important incentive. You remember I said thrr three things the developer is interested in and one of them was time. It is one way of giving a developer time or giving him more certainty and more time is by allowing administrative approvals. If you look at the city of Austin's code, if have you a four lot subdivision, you just need board approval. In this case we're suggesting the ecological standards for this development are so high that we also think that an administrative approval if you meet these minimum standards is a legitimate part of the process. If I'm a developer and I come in and I meet the minimum standards without a Commissioners court variance, I should be able to get approval. Please take a look at section 2 because it talks about three levels of administrative approval. If there are no variances at all, then their subdivision can be approved administratively. If there are administrative variances, then they have -- once they have cleared autopsy comments there is a 30 day period where the executive manager of the transportation natural resources department will nif the Commissioners, and for no action is taken to deny it, then it is approved within 30 days. If there are any variances beyond traif rearnses, all of those items have to come to the court for approval. Now, that rawzs the issue of -- raises the issue of what is an administrative variance? We have taken on a number of tmz that we know there are cases where a developer needs a little bit of room to make his development meet the intention here. While we've set some stiff standards, we've said if you can make your case appropriately, the executive mrk has the authority to make some adjustments. So we've been very precise in saying in this way you can have a veans or in this way. There's in broad granting of vearps authority here. It's very specific and targeted. The reason why variances are important is that in most places around the can you be this type of subdivision is a negotiated process. There are minimum standards, but they're so general and vague that you usually have to come in and neght the entire -- negotiate the entire process. But remember certainty is also one of the items that we have to have in order to dwpers to believe that this process is legitimate. So we're giving them a buy right priftion, setting high standards and saying instead of neghting the whole package, we are minor items you can neght order to -- negotiate to make your development work. If you need more than that you will have to come to the Commissioners court and ask for a major variance. So the time lines, the administrative approvals, including the administrative variances, are new items if the county. These are not items elsewhere in your code, but we think given the standards we're setting here this is an appropriate place to move to that envelope. Next on page 13, I've already talked about the delegation really of authority to the executive manager in terms of administrative variances and the time lines, on croj that I really need to -- I don't know that I need to add anything here. I'll move on to the conservation development freament. This is the relationship that the county would enter into with the developer. It runs there the land. Once they enter into this agreement, it's attached to the land and even if it's resubdivided later or they want to come in and do an amendment to their subdivision, their land is obligated to meet the requirements of this ordinance.
>> so it's a lifetime biding situation for that particular property?
>> yes, sir. It's more than lifetime. It's in perpetuity.
>> okay.
>> you bet.
>> so if a person wanted to enter into this, they need to know what's goik on because that's a heck of a suggestion.
>> they're making a commitment to meet these stz.
>> that's it. It stays with the land.
>> yes, sir. And I think it's only that cied of condition that -- kind of condition that I would feel comfortable recommending that you give incentives. If you're going to give incentives, they need to make a permanent decision. The next item is that it authorizes the landowner to the incentives, the contract word. And lastly, it is possible for a landowner who is not in the process of developing this property it ebbter into this agreement. Let say you have someone who owns a large property, a raj that's been in their -- a ranch that's been in their family for a jetion or more and they would -- generation or more. They have specific requirements of this ordinance, but they will in the be developing it. Perhaps their grandchildren will or their grandchildren may sell the prt, but since they observe it today they can enter into an agreement and lock it in so whoever owns it will twp the property under these guide libraries. They can make that commitment even though they're not in the development process. The last item I want to get into really is the idea -- which starts on page 15, what are the snebts? The way I conceptual eyes this is there are a series of things that are beb fit that are being conveyed by the prenner in this property -- property owner in this press. There's the set packs backs from the roadways. There's the conservation space of up to 50% of your property. There's a whole series of items that all benefits in this and a whole series of items that we're proposing to create incentives to accomplish all that. The primary robe that the county would enter into the incentives is the prevehicle of flood prevehicle. Most of these items contribute it the prevention of flooding. And because of the open space, impervious cover, all these items benefit, so we think again that's another justification for incentives. The incentives include returning permit fees for should be who has gone through a development process. Once they get to the ebbed if they get approved or into an agreement with you on their land, then they would be rebitted the fees they paid up frbt goik through the twoament process. There's staff assistance where someone would be specifically oid to help them through the process, to usher them through the twoament process, sofa sill at a time and move them quickly. Basically the carrying costs for the land, particularly if you're a large leanedder and you're not developing it, the carrying cost for your land is reduced by basically a cattle that would -- a calculation that would rebate -- rebate isn't the correct term. Would basically make a payment to you that would be equivalent of what your tacks are or the -- taxes are. And then there's a lump sum payment. Once you've entered into this, at a certain point in time, the calculation for the rollback taxes would also be available to the individual who entered into this agreement. There are assessment rebates if someone actually goes through the process and they have to do an assessment, acknowledge ecological assessment, if they are successful in the process, they would be rebated up to $10,000 for their ek l.b.j. Kel assessment. That any unused impervious cover or excess conservation space can be transferred. They can get some economic value if they good above the stz you've set. Ed dedication in lieu of fees would be exempted and I think the om oshs that I can think of right new that's county wide where you have it in lieu of fee is for parkland pause they're setting aside 50% of their property for natural space or open space, then we would assume they have met the requirement for park labd and it would exempt them from that dedication requirement. There are also some aspects that several people have raised the potential that if you are a conservation development that that lends some value to a dwper for marketing his prt and that the county would define some specific types of statements or that can be used as a marketing statement that would be allowed to be used. You would license basically a register, and if they meet the requirements they can use those statements. Once the property a is developed and the conservation space is maintained, potential assistance to the observers association to ensure that it is maintained in perpetuity to meet the natural resource values that you were trying to preserve. For properties that go above and beyond the minimum standards, that the state law allows you to look at tax abatement. But then lastly item j on this page 16, if you for some reason do not continue -- if you enter into an freament and you're not able to meet the requirements of the agreement to make your payments that then the developer gets to go back if he wishes and resubdivide his property you should the standard subdivision process that was in place at the time that he entered into the agreement. So he's held harmless if the county decides not to meet their commitment in the conservation agreement. And lastly, if he doesn't meet his obligations, then you can withhold the payments. You can withhold them until that developer take the steps to rectify any problems that are croated. The last item on this paiblg is really a reference that to go with this ordinance the taf is developing a design manual that includes in great detail how throwg this development process, the things that the staff would be looking for to enhur the ecological value, what the road stz are going to be, how to did a management plan that would be acceptable to the county. All those items need to be laid out in a separate document for your approval.
>> have we given any thought to what it will cost the county to implement this?
>> as joe said at the beginning, we're not hur exactly how many landowners would take advantage of this ordinance. We do think the ordinance is affordable from the county's perspective in that most of the properties that would be using this would be you should some type of ag exemption. And I think the largest exposure you may have viewed here is any type of pawment for back tacks or for taxes. Other than that the other things are known quantities. You've got the 10,000-dollar ecological assessment that would be per property. We believe we currently have the staff to review the number of applications we're lakely to get. And we're not expecting a flood of applications.
>> my next question is do we have reason to believe that there are owners, developers interested in something like this? Urks well, I can --
>> let me ask it another way. I'm looking for short answers, by the way. We foe of two or three jurisdictions that have had a conservation plan. Right? We moagdzed this after owe modeled this after two or three others?
>> to a degree, yes.
>> and in those has it been there experience that developers, large property owners in rural settings or other suitable settings are sprd in something like this?
>> we've heard thrar developers that have approached other jurisdictions with the idea of doing a development. They do not have incentives, they have a regulatory approach. There is a difference, but there appears to be a small market niche that is brd in this type -- interested in this type of development.
>> so joe's decisions are appealable through the Commissioners court.
>> yes, sir.
>> thank you, by the way. [ laughter ]
>> yeah, joe gieselman. My question is who may appeal the decision, the property owner, developer, john q. Citizen who is unhappy with the development in.
>> generally the appeal would be by the property owner. He get to appeal by the Commissioners court. If joe cut himself, he needs to come to you and have your consideration.
>> let think about that. It seems to me that when we look at western Travis County and is the other area northeastern?
>> yeah.
>> western Travis County pefkly, I would think that a Travis County party more likely to be unhappy with a decision problem not the property owner or the developer, but it would be some citizen who believes that he or she acting in the public interest has been adversely impacted. That's when I read that. The other thing that is a little thing is that when I looked at conservation space design in one place is just generally and the other place is for commercial developments.
>> yes, sir.
>> and in the first 1 1-a,i think we need to tie them together. Because when I read them I had a difbt interpretation of what you told me. If you tie them together, they're clear. 50% of the property, but at least 10 acres, bodies of those good together, right?
>> yes, sir. They're both rirmentz. Requirements. Ek.
>> so who do we expect to come to the public hearing?
>> that's it a good question. We have touched base with so many stakeholders.
>> thank you, joe. [ laughter ]
>> I expected more to show up today because we did notify. I think people have begun to understand what's in the ordinance, are had opportunities to comept toio. We've had at least a dozen forums where we've taken this out and kind of explained, got feedback, so to answer your question I would expect those same constituent groups to come back, developers, home builders, citizens, environmental groups. But I think that a lot of the comments that they have made have already been incorporated. So I'm not expecting a flood of open sig. The thing here is it's an optional code, which really relaxes. We're not coming down with a set of regulations saying you have to do this. If you like it, here it is. If you don't, you don't have to use it.
>> I think our biggest challenge is getting those who might benefit to understand it. There's a lot of information there.
>> yes, there is.
>> that's why I think if I were doing it I guess I would get me two or three life examples and at the public hearing I think it would help it say john doe in so and so jurisdiction had this number of acres and they had a similar pln and here is what he did and here's how he benefitted and the public benefitted. The public benefit is more open space, drainage, maybe some sort of uninteng national flood traij, flooding relief at no cost to the county except for the incentives.
>> yes, but it's also the home buyer who might want to live next to open space instead of a golf course. I think -- separate and aside from the public interest, there is a separate market interest that we believe is marketable in this central Texas area. So that will be an open question. We'll find out whether there is or in the. We have actually taken this ordinance and applied it to the remainder of the reimers track. When we went out to purchase the reimers park, you remember we had 1200 acres on the back side and we asked don bossy, who is a land planner in the private sector, to take this ordinance and just pretend that he was developing that 1200 acres with this ordinance. And he was able to give us the comparison of what a traditional subdivision would look like and what it would look like under a conservation ordinance. So we anticipated that there might be others out there that would like to see, well, what did one of these things look like? This basically is the graphic display of those two.
>> we nead to emphasize this was a paper exercise and not a active plan.
>> paper exercise. We didn't offend anyone by doing this on their property without request, we did it on a county observed property so people could is see it. This is a traditional subdivision. There's approximately 1800 development units and 475 open space acres. He applied the version of the ordinance which you saw, which was draft 5. He hasn't had a a chance to update these yet, but he applied the standards that were in the barton strat five and basically -- instead of 1800 units, there's 1450 units and there's 700 acres of open space. So you see what the issues are. If you look at the pictures where the lots are, you don't get the idea that there's a mind boggling dibs. Because of the cumulative effect of all the items, there is additional cumulative open space and a substantial reduction in density. So the benefits that we've been talking about, especially for flood prevention, appear to be there, and the marketplace will also see the potential of it. And from the public standpoint it also helps retain the rural character of the area because of the buffers on the roadways and so forth. So it is in the that hiewmg of a huge of a trech for a developer to see what it would look like. The question is economically or financially does it work for them still? And as an anecdote, in one of the conversations we had with a -- some ll development interests, one of the wernz that we were talking to said I don't think anyone will use this ordinance. Economically it woabt work. Two seconds later his partner said I think people will use it because there are people who want to do this type of twoament and there is a market niche here. So you're going to hear pros and cons, yes, we'll use it, no, we won't. Until we have the opportunity to see what it works in the marketplace, we won't know. What we're trying it do is open the door for this option, create an incentive for those who maybe interested in it and then see if it actually in fact will work. And in other places around the country where they've seen this type of dwement, usually in -- development, usually in the northeast or the northeast, it's usually focused around commons or greens or community parks. So we're doing something in Texas that's a little bit different in that we're trying to retain a natural setting. That's a bit didn't. But there does appear to be some market niche or interest in it. And to foster that we believe we need to have the opportunity to go through the county code process easily and have it recognized.
>> has that process also been applied to the northeast section where we do have a lot of ag use in there's a lot of ag use, prairie grass, a whole bubbling of staff out there -- a whole bunch of stuff out there in the county?
>> we tried to take into consideration that in didn't part of the county that farmland may be -- that's what you're trying to preserve. So the ordinance allows the open space to be farmland, orchards, natural areas. It also understands that there may be a disin other parts of the county in terms of what you're trying to preserve.
>> let's say it's ag exempt. You may have to sufficient the penalty of maybe even roll back, and I think roll back would go back as far as five years for what that property would have been taxed as before you received agricultural exemptions. So my question is, is that something that the owner and developer neadz to take into consideration is that type of impact if the volunteer agreement between the owner and the developer and also Travis County ends up being on the table? There may be some tweaking that still needs to be done on that. I'm just wondering if that's ever been taken into consideration when we look at that because again it may still be farmland, but again, maybe end up as another use, especially if you get homes and things like that on the property, looking at a natural setting, but the intent and use of that would not be primarily just farmland anymore. Normally these are basically 10-acre tract, and that is the minimum. That is the minimum requirement is that it is a 10-acre tract. So I'm kind of concerned about that all these other interests that I think still need to be a part of what we're doig here. And to ensure that when we do have a public hearing on this that these folks really understand exactly what's goik on here -- going on here. So a lot of folks out there that own a lot of property, a lot of farmland out there, prairie fwras and a whole bufnlg of other stuff out there, that need to be involved in this process and understand the press. Pref I don't know if that's been hit on a lot today, but you just think it's spg that needs to be -- something that needs to be considered.
>> yes, sir. We've tried to accommodate that regardless of where the development is, whether it on farm labd area or in a natural area, that they can come there this process and we can accommodate them. And I believe we are taking into consideration the implications of roll back tack. But you're exactly correct in there's a whole lot of nfls here and we really have to do a whole lot more outreach for people to understand how it applies or doesn't apply to them.
>> and my last question or comment on this is that if that is accepted in the developer -- between a developer -- this is a voluntary situation. And you actually lose the number of units being placed on that 10-acre tract according to your mayorio that you stated earlier, if those unit are reduced, then of course to pay for the loss of those other unit, would that m.b.e. That the price of those home would have to also go up to offset the cost of the maximizing of that particular 10-acre tract toward residential?
>> there are a number of things that happen under this proposal that allow the developer to see that his investment is secure. One of them is the idea that the property values do have a bonus or a premium on them because they are adjacent to green space. But the surveys seemed to indicate nationally is that 60% of the people who buy lots that front on golf curses don't play golf, they just want the green adjacent to their property. So that's the market niche that we're after. Instead after golf course out there, we'll have a farl area. -- natural area. So there will be a premium we believe on those lots that have those attributes that the developer can put a premium on. And you can bet that they'll figure out how do that. The other thing is we're reducing their cost to a degree because we're reducing their impervious cover requirements. The roads will be narrow so we're reducing their costs in some ways. And there are also the incentives, so the combination of the incentives, the premiums on property, the time saved foing through the development process, all those items add up at the ebbed of the day where a developer can look at this as a legitimate option for how he should development or she should develop their property and feel that they have a roabl expectation of getting an economic return for the market that they're going after. So we're trying keep them in the ballpark of getting the return they need, but get the benefits that we're talking about.
>> I've got a couple others I want to lay out there. I don't want answers, but between now and the time we get to public hearing and adoption. I've already talked about the bill poured. Related to who will be the 84 seeing in terms of the management of the common lands, to you psalm that a m.u.d. -- do you assume that a m.u.d. Could or could not substitute for a property owners association? Next related to these open space things we need to have some more thoughts and conservations related to what is travis central appraisal district going to be? Gerald and I can give you song and verse about difficulties we're having with the bcp land where we have in effect stripped all the development rights, but that doesn't seem to be registering with the preal district, he -- appraisal district, so we need to make sure that these things are one and the same in terms of understanding what that valuation is supposed to be. Under big box retail, I think there are 14 deaf anythings of what big box retail is, pu when you start talking about 50,000 scwoat, this is what happened on the slaughter-mopac thing, some poem think that that thing means a home did he pe, but does that include a grocery store? There are certain minimums for grocery stores. You could wind up triggering big bks retail and make it difficult for a grocery store to go in and nobody seems to are a frob with a grocery store if you've got to eat and there isn't one in the neighborhood. And two more things, where do we talk about clustering? We've had that issue before in terms of everybody loves impervious cover at 15%, unless you start clustering, and everybody gets irritable because the clustering will mean higher impervious cover in certain part of it. So that needs to be talked about, addressed probably in the design standards. And how are we going to calculate a golf course in terms of impervious cover? Of course it's not impervious cover, but there are meab in the environmental community that because of the nutrient loads, they are equivalent to impervious cover.
>> oh, please.
>> I don't agree with that, yaird Gerald, but it needs to be thought through. With the new try ebt loads it's -- nutrient loads is the same. Everybody needs to be on the same page from the beginning. With your reaction, oh, ploaz, then put it on a piece of paper that that will not be counted as impervious cover. But we're going to have that argument. That argument will come up if it's not dressed up front.
>> it has nothing to do with impervious cover, it has to do with runoff. My god, let's not have the runoff from fertilization.
>> this issue will come up.
>> fascinating area.
>> we can answer all those questions for you.
>> we do expect that tom will want to give you legal guidance at some point. We're asking that the court authorize --
>> it in executive session neck week.
>> I can just sort of touch on it right now. We're dealing with this at a very conceptual level and I would say that at that level there don't appear to be any fatal hurdles right now, but there are always a lot of devils in the twailz and we're not goik to know what the details are until we're further along into this process. And just a couple of observations, a key part of the ordinance would be the technical or the design manual. Until have you that piece, this thing really isn't goik to work because to get the efficiencies and the amount of review time ands the so-called buy right approval that joe is talking about, you are to have the standards for the treats in the stwition if the type of drainage. Really what are the alternative standards going to be compared to what we've got on the books now. Until you have those down you don't have a buy right approval and everything will require a variance from y'all and that doesn't give the developer the efficiency and the shorten are review times that the developer is looking if. That's one issue. Another one is in term of the perpetual nature of the open space and making sure it'sner developed, conceptually the way we're looking at that is essentially as part of the conservation development agreement joe was talking about, the landowner would commit to giving the county a conservation easement on that open space, and that's what enhurz that into perpetuity that it's never developed. And some of the incentives joe was talking about, conceptually the way we picture that is they're basically payments for that conservation easement. Like any other interest in real property you buy, when you buy a conservation easement it's unconstitutional for you to pay more than the market value for it. So the item total of all the incentives could not be above the market value of that conservation easement. And there are so many conservation easements now being bought by nature conservancy, city of Austin, so on, there really is so to speak a market value for conservation easements so one challenge will be, okay, what is the market value of this conservation easement and how can the county be assured that we're in the paying more than the market value. So a lot of these twailz are going to have to be worked out before we have something ready to adopt.
>> I'll save my 10 or so legal questions until three weeks from now when we're clesser to -- owe closer to he owe is this what we take to the ploarg?
>> we would like to post this draft on the website and have it as the sublg of our September 5th public hearing.
>> judge, my concern is owe he the question you asked. And that is who will be a part of the public hearing? I -- how do we identify or how do you notify, I guess is the question, and ask the staff, how do we notify and who do we notify to participate in this public hearing? Because I know we've got a bubbling of folk over thr in the northeast part of Travis County who have a lot of ag exempt in the eesh part of Travis County who may want to be a partner of this. How do you identify them and let them know that is another question. I'm getting like the judge, how did we know and who do you notify?
>> the jublg has another -- the judge has another idea. What if we post this if public hearing on September 10th and then not next week, but the week after, and that will be August 15th havener discussion about invitations to people that we give directly? So the formal requirement of a public hearing notice we cover immediately and we give some this the tw weeks from new, though, it exactly who it is that we would want to invite and encowrnl to come and provide input. I think that's how we get input one way or the other because I think if we think we may get serious I object put, we may want to serious in a way that we will you an hur, hour and a half, tw hours if the public hearing in which we limit the rest of the agenda or we post it at a time when we really can focus on it exclusively.
>> you mean the 12th?
>> two weeks from today?
>> you said September 10th.
>> what did you say, joe?
>> I said September fifth if the public hearing.
>> you said September 10th and that's not a Tuesday.
>> I had a written down.
>> yes, sir?
>> you're not goik to have five people cm down here and talk about it, I'll bet you. What you've got is the development community are the people that are going to weigh in on this. It's in the the property owners out there, it's the twoament community. That's what this thing is about. We heard loud and clear, when you sit down with the home builders association it takes them about 15 minutes it tell you, right now there are not -- not that this is in the good because for western Travis County, and I don't know about eastern, but western Travis County the reason that it put down -- that we've got it in place is to hopefully get a potential developer to go out there and to did is something that the community is dwoig it embrace. And this is something because it's less impervious cover, it's protection of al of the environmental features. It's all of those thegz that the southwest dialogue process honed in on. Hey, you can put two hours aside owe he.
>> I don't have any problem inviting the development community.
>> I'm just saying --
>> link with others, they, that we think hub brd. Because I think that rather than that waiting until they show interest, I'd rather contact the wubz that we they ought to be interested in something like that because of communications we've gotten from them in the past. So I'm thinking that we give the special inva teation to be here on -- envatation to be here on September fifed and if we have to tweak it, phone. If etcetera in good shape new, adopt it and put it out there appeared see what kind of responses we get. The other thick is when when -- thing is when you give incentives, we legal advice. And I want to be sure that it's clear in what we're suggesting here. The other thing is given the executive manager may of this authority would be new and didn't. If I were joe, yj that I would want to enter into these listening term contracts. Long-term contracts. I would want the court to back me up. The court out there taking a lead and me backing up the court. I think that requires a little bit more thought so we know exactly had you we're proceeding. Not that we ought go that way, but give it thought that we did.
>> [one moment, please, for change in captioners] >.
>> .
>> interested in western Travis County and it's a sharp subject. That's what we talked about. We probably are going to have to come back and sweeten the deal. That's what this whole thing is about. How do youen ties people to do this. That's--entice people to do this this. That's what this first thing is, kind of a carrot. Are you interested in this. If I want get you to do this, how about we sweeten it a bit. That's what we mean.
>> legal how can we do it.
>> that's right.
>> and in a way that the public benefit comes close to equally equallying whatever incentive we provide.
>> we found out on the cyprus hill thing, in part two they might have been interested and look at the con investigation development ordinance where it was headed. Because of the features of the property they basically buffered themselves out of existence of it wasn't going to work on their property because of where the creeks and other environmental features were in terms of dividing up the property. They said, doesn't work for us. We have to go the traditional route. Not that we don't want to. It's the only option they have.
>> joe, joe and john, thanks for bringing up the fascinating conversation. Do we want to have the hearing here in the Commissioners court room or one out west and east?
>> we better get the erwin center. It's going to be big.
>> I can't imagine.
>> right here.
>> I just can't.
>> right here? On the recommended date?
>> right here.
>> September 5? Fine with me.
>> yes.
>> I can hardly wait. Moving to set for public hearing on September 5, 2006, nine a.m. In this very courtroom.
>> can I make a comment. Christian and I have been extremely nervous about the overall economic impact of this. I just got off the phone with art cory and he is going to run for us the total taxable value of all the acreage tracts outside of the municipal, the incorporated areas, which would be the total, and 50 percent of that would be the economic impact. We have been talking about ag extension on most of those tracks.
>> yep.
>> I don't think anybody knows if in fact that's a accurate assessment. I think you will be surpriseded at what the taxable value, the wore case scenario, on this thing will be.
>> wait a second. What exactly are you asking for here? Are you asking for how many probably will take use of this? Are you saying everybody out there that has value will take use of it?
>> what I'm asking is, what if the taxable value on the roles of every acreage thact that could potentially apply for-- for--tract, that could potentially apply for this, that's the worse case economic impact. If you don't know that number and you get out there in a public hearing, are you not talking about rebating only Travis County taxes of this has school taxes in it.
>> we can't speak to any other jurisdiction.
>> but this has travis countire baiting school tax--rebating school taxes and Travis County taxs.
>> we have made a footnote about that and we will discuss it at the public hearing if not befor.
>> all right.
>> see?
>> thank you all.
>> we may want to call it back.
>> all in favor of that motion. It passes by unanimous vote. Public hearing scheduled for September--
>> side corporate limits or outside etj, that's a big difference.
>> the vote has been passed. Any more delaying tactics before moving to the next item? Thank you.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, August 1, 2006 7:14 PM