Travis County Commissioners Court
May 30, 2006
Item 20
We have returned from a short recess and are ready to take up item number 20, consider and take rope action on the following Travis County initiatives, a is appointment of executive manager or coordinator for criminal justice planning. B is point the of tive manag manager or coordinator for emergency services. C is appointment of executive manager of both criminal justice planning and emergency services coordinator, d is any other options regarding the manage management of criminal justice planning and commercial siservices, and e is other related emergency personnel matters that we may take up in executive session if necessary. When we discussed this once before I recommended , basically, and that is to executive managers and the reason for that is that it seems to me that in each functional area there are critical major and numerous program services, initiatives, challenges,et ra that demand the attention of a high level manage, and in my view it's an executive manager. Now for almost a year we have had these coordinator positions filled on an interim basis and it seems to me important to move. What I handed out a few minutes ago what is what we had last fall. On the color sheet she does a pretty good job of setting out the different options. So, in my view, it kind of boils down to whether we go with one executive manager and a person under him or her, or the two coordinator approach that we had been using or two executive manag managers. It started out with one executive manager over both functional areas and I think we probably drove that person not to death but crazy because there are two distinctly different functional areas, I think, with different problems and services, a whole lot of folks that you have to work with. We partner with the city of Austin in both areas and there's an interlocal agreement that we have to negotiate periodically. When I look at it, I just think that if we have two high level managers or executive managers appropriately staffed, you know, just working with the city of Austin, other elected officials, managers, e sd, the community justice council, round table, state jail, all of our criminal district judges, juvenile justice and public defenders office, no way to get around dealing with public health in the justice context because that demands it. That the why I suggest we have two executive managers but I知 pretty much open. Except I do think we ought to land on one of them one way or the other.
>> what comes to mind for me is the need for lots of communication skills if you deal with a lot of elected officials in the criminal justice system. And more so than the other executive managers. It calls for a lot of, I mean, a lot of coordination.
>> yes.
>> certainly a lot of communication. As we try to bring a lot of people together, a lot of elected officials together, not necessarily to make decisions for them, but rather collecting information for the court, the Commissioner's court, in order to be able to then collaborate with those other elected officials to make some good decisions.
>> judge, in relation to medical examiner's office, it says here under an executive manager, under one of these two newly created executive managers or would we keep the relationship that seems to be working pretty well considering a lot of problems the d e's office right now are facilities in nature and it in nature, to continue to keep the m e's office under alicia's group, which would certainly make that whole a lot easier.
>> I haven't given that a who will lot of thought. These are not my ideas.
>> no.
>> right. I had not given that a lot of thought, to be honest. We have staffed up there. My guess is that if that runs like it ought to, that would become one of the minor departments at some point in the future. Not tomorrow, but at some point in the future. I知 flexible on either one of them.
>> but it is criminal justice. Right?
>> I think, but if we want to distribute the emergency medical services issue, it has to be one of those 51 on one side, 49 on the other, if not 50-50. So I知 pretty flexible with it.
>> hmm.
>> if it functions like it should and it's staffed up and you have the chief medical examiner in place with the appropriate number of deputies and the support staff where we put it may not matter a whole lot.
>> it does run pretty well once it has everything that it needs.
>> right, right.
>> there's always the possibility of keeping it as a temporary executive manag manager oversight, that it reports up to alicia.
>> I think alicia is ready to move on to, she is not here today, I don't want to speak for her, move back to her duties and responsibilities. The problem with these functional areas is that if they don't get the attention that they deserve, there are issues there that tend to fester. Kind of like the expo center center. We have been really without a director.
>> right.
>> and as far as we know we have been doing all right am but you never know when you have personnel issues building and cock tracks for different folk. There are some major partners there -- contracts for different pokes. There are some major partners there with the departure of the ice batch that would have freed up a whole lot of time, a lot of dates.
>> uh-huh.
>> and if we get up there and market it well, I think that financially we'd be better off. But that requires a market marketing perp. Right new my guess is that-- that--a marketing person. Right now my guess that is we're trying to service the contracts that we have in place, trying to keep staff and there and make sure the facility is ready for the next user. The person doing that is kind of on an interim basis and has other duty as responsibilities because I have seen his name pop up on different memos. But with an executive manag manager in place, you know, that person would be able to give a little more time and attention. Alicia has been spending a lot of time down at the medical examiner's office and I know has a lot of her duties and responsibilities sort of being placed on hold.
>> I知 comfortable with those two coordinator slot moving up to be executive manager slots, just to bring those to that upper level. I really enjoyed it in terms of with our two intrims, carol cold burn and pete, for them to be brought in to be part of the management team. It seemed like that's appropriate, more appropriate when you're at that same manager level, as opposed to the coordinator, not any disrespect or anything, but it just puts more people at the same level within our retreat et cetera. I think that's appropriate. Those spots bring a lot to the table.
>> the other idea I had last time was that two members of the court that served on the subcommittees already would help in each functional area the respective functional area, and we would pull two executive managers or coordinators to assist. First thing we would do is look at the job description that we have had in place and figure out whether that's appropriate, whether we need to revise it. I can tell you that in criminal justice, several other individuals, the da, county attorney, some others have indicated an interest in assisting the courtthe in filling the position. Because they realize how important it is. The other thing is cscd is attempting to move in a new and different direction, thanks to dr. Nagey, there's a who will lot of stuff happening there. So we may want to look at the job description and figure out whether it's what we want it to be. But I do agree with you, you know, high level management, communication, sort of facilitating collaboration are things that are real important but they just don't happen overnight have you to bring in the right people to help them occur.
>> and one other thing that's come to mind since you brought this up, the way you have this set up you basically have two members of the court and two coordinators, one odd person out. Think given the circumstances, it would be much more appropriate for Commissioner Davis to work with Gerald on that subcommittee because of fore foreof you will be the four who will be here to work with these managers. So I知 going to respectfully ask to be the odd person out out. I will be there for the other things that Commissioner Davis would have been for related to the different interviews baw I think this is too important for Commissioner Davis not to be at the forefront of all the decision making and going through all the resume resumes, rewriting things. This is work for folks who need to be here, for those of us who are departing.
>> well, not to see that Commissioner Davis couldn't sit with you and i, but this is going to be taken care of before you leave.
>> that's okay. I respectfully ask that Commissioner Davis take my place in terms of doing that.
>> I wonder if it's appropriate for us to give Commissioner Davis additional responsibility while he is on vacation.
>> I知 happy to take it up next week.
>> that will be fine.
>> I just don't think it's appropriate for me to--
>> that will be fine with me me. I do think it would be un unwise for us to have three there because we lose flexibilityyes.
>> because you have a host of meetings.
>> yes.
>> right.
>> three of us legally to meet with the subcommittee and do some of this work, it would require that it would be posted to the commission Commissioners court. That's already except you have notice retirements.
>> I知 just saying it's two and two and I would just like to be assigned the fifth slot and to have Commissioner Davis take my slot on the subcommittee that's going to be doing this.
>> should you share with Commissioner Davis or do you want me to?
>> no, you can, judge. Your office is closer.
>> okay.
>> and gerl and i, of course will still be on the emergency services subcommittee because there's ongoing work of that subcommittee that is not all related to the hiring of this manager. It's just a task. I致e been on my share of these kinds of committees, so I don't feel bad about saying I値l pass on this one.
>> don't think we're going to let you go for the next six months.
>> seven, but that's okay.
>> we'll let you, not let you do that on me.
>> no, this is too important for the four of you not to be here hands on on this one.
>> any comments from the coordinators or managers in the audience?
>> let me ask a question that [indiscernible] was one person able the the adequately do these two jobs when there was one person?
>> no. We a little talked about donna din witty squared. She really need to be two or three people she was a very talented individual but it took its toll and it was simply not possible. The person should not be working up here 12 hours a day and have so money different kind of tasks to juggle in items of going from criminal justice planning all the way on the spectrum to everything that was under e s. She was a very talented person who could do it I think you and I found going through the resumes, to find somebody who has all skills related to criminal justice planning and everything on the e s side, rerp very lucky that we had donna do it. It took two people to replace her. And danny hobby, again, another extraordinary individual, and mr. Trumbel as well.
>> I agree with that assessment. If you have an executive manage, I think you have to have sort of an assistant executive manager that the just a few notches below. In my view you get more bang for the buck if you have two executive managers. The other thing is if we put the positions in place and these, I moon, I don't see us working ourselves--i mean I don't see ourselves working ourselves out of work. With you it's conceivable that we learn later on they are not needed. I think in some of these areas we need to be a bit more proactive than we have been because we have been forced to respond to really emergencies that have cropped up. Personnel and so forth.
>> uh-huh.
>> and what we realize when all these departments answer to the Commissioner's court, some of the dents we saw once or twice a year. If you are in this building you get a lot more attention than you do if you are in another location. The other thing is that whether we like it or not, when you are dealing with elected officials, you know, dealing with them is a bit more difficult than dealing with rank and file employees employees. I mean, a lot of them have might commitments to Travis County residents and feel obligated to carry those out but they need funding to do so. Sometimes they have a different notion of how to get from a to b than the er er's court does. A -- than the Commissioner's court does. A lot of areas, not right or wrong. We can do this way or that way. To the extent we can get together on it I think it ends up being a much better investment of public dollars dollars. The other thing is, I have always said that in health and human services and criminal justice planning, you know, we could have a lot more impact by trying to provide some permanent relief to some of these areas. Not all but to some of them. And in promosing self-sufficient five si, trying to convert-- convert--sufficient-- self-sufficiency, trying to convert people would rely on social services to independent individuals who pay taxes and take care of their families, my guess is long-term it's a lot better for the individuals as well as us, and certainly taxpayers.
>> we're only, we're in the talking about creating two new slots. We're talking about up upgrading kind of like the same thing that happened with the original executive managers.
>> right.
>> jeff already existed, christian smith already existed, the person at health and human services already existed. They just got upgraded in terms of duties and responsibilities. And so it was, I致e always felt that has been a fluid kind of a thing. We have reorganized as we have seen fit in items of rearranging which things go under which executive manag managers. Because it's a fluid and moving and growing organization. So this I think is reflective of what we have learned especially the last two years related the some of demands within criminal justice planning, with the interloaningel, with the city of--interlocal, with the sit of Austin, e 's office, the fire -- e m's office, the fire marshal office. There's so much going on and they need to be at the same level as the other in the organize am my perspective.
>> I think the other demand in this area, now it's the working between county and city government or county and federal. Whereas maybe, I know tnr is probably the area of responsibility there is probably as big if not bigger and it spreads out. It's mostly within the county although there are some interlocals starting to come into play but it's more under one executive manager as opposed to the criminal justice. There's a we bit of a difference. But I think there are a lot of elected officials on that criminal justice versus the nr which is mostly --the tnr which is motorly Travis County.
>> what I have explained to some of the elected official officials is that I see this person as someone, or now we were talking about two people, as folks who know their fields really well, can communicate and coordinate and collaborate really well, and then they represent the Commissioner's court as opposed to, you know, a district judge or a district attorney. That's a distinction I have made for myself. What do the coordinators think?
>> good morning, I知 carol cold burnand I have been serving at services coordinator. And I did serve as coordinate of right after diane din witty left. That give me a lot ofib sites into the fact that I feel it really needs to be two separate managers doing this job. It is just such a broad area of service that really do not connect a lot, that like Commissioner Sonleitner said it's just too much for one person. I guess that's probably my main input. It needs to be two people. I do feel like managers would be the best because there's a lot of strategic planning that needs to take place in both of these areas areas. I think we need a high level person that has the ability to do that, collaborate with the elected officials of there's a lot going on in both areas. They are going in both directions. I can feel that two executive managers would be the best for these positions.
>> okay.
>> pete aldwithin, interim emergency services coordinator. I concur am I値l speak from the emergency services side. It tends to be more of an operations type group based on the different divisions in there. But above that, we have things such as the e ms interlocal, the area inter interlocal, we have contracts, radio contracts with all the cities and esd esd's and there's a level that needs to be addressed and taken care of and not be down into the operational of you know, the helicopters or something. You have to have somebody that can go sit down with an assistant city manager and also turn around and sit down with the mayors and be able to communicate and express the desires and the policies of the county. So that level of person is what we have been trying to discuss. I think carol and I have this discussion numerous times. We feel like it would be that executive manager level level. It needs to be somebody that has that communication skill the administration skill, and once again, the budget skill because the diversity of the group that's underneath you. I have to admit, one of the things the judge said is very true. Once a department get up and running, there's not a whole lot of problem you get things, contracts come around this time of year, interlocal this that and the other. But with that diversity of a group there's always something that, oops, we got two hurricane disaster going oops, fire disaster, wait a minute, time to purchase helicopters, wait a minute, this issue going on over here. So, the one person that can come in and touch and tap that high level and that also deal with those day-to-day day-to-day hiccup hiccups is what we need.
>> do we know what the other at least urban counties, more of our size, do we know what they do, what kind of a structure?
>> I think we're the only county without a structure.
>> I thought I remember bexa bexar county stol our position of how we subdivide all our things. Some of them do have the Commissioners take direct responsibilities for specific departments. I know that I have discussed this brezoria county. Everybody does in it a different way. I think it was bexar that said, that's a great division, let's steal that.
>> one or two have a county administrator but not money.
>> yeah.
>> and there are some people here in Travis County who remember the old days and they still want the old days.
>> harris county absolutely has the old system of each of the Commissioners is in charge of personnel and they truly are road Commissioners and they direct hiring decisions as though they were their own little individual mayors.
>> when we went to this brunch, we also included the comptroller to look at what we were proposing herel I think they came over in '95 to give their final report.
>> judge, do we need to move forward? I think what you laid out here with putting folks together, I mean, you know, perhaps if we look at the time line, if this is the direction that we're going to move, and it doesn't sound like there's a lot of ret sense about doing that, then I think that we need to put the groups together. Because we certainly have applicants, you know. We have applicant that can take the job on and do it. I知 sure there's somebody in there that can. I guess that's why we need to move.
>> seems to me that we need to revisit the job descriptions as a court. I don't know whether our thinking about what kind of person we want has changed but we ought to give ourselves an opportunity to review it but if we head in this direction, what I would try to refine miss coburn's outline, change the dates and have those back next week. In terms of the direction, you know, we could either one manager or one manager with a coordinator, two managers, even some other options. After look at all of them I just concluded that we need two executive managers. If that the our direction, then basically we would come back with a work plan to en enable us to get that done. Now, we did get a whole lot of applications for criminal justice manager, but the posting was a little different. The job description. And it was posted like forever. Both were posted until filled. So my guess is that from time to time applications have just simply rolled in but they have been based on the job description. If we leave it the same, no problem. If we're are going to change it, now is the time to do it it. Maybe for those who have already submitted applications, we can just indicate to them what the differences are. And if they want to update their resume, I think at least they ought to have that opportunity. And I do think we ought to agree on some sort of time linetime that we factor in the polt of revising --the possible of reviding job description and posting. Have the committees basically short list down to five or six. Also, for those in criminal justice area, if they want to help with the job description selection, it doesn't bother month at all. Just the question is how do we figure them in. If the job description level is probably a good starting point.
>> also to make sure that the job descriptions, if we are going the manager route, are consistent with the job descriptions that we have for other executive managers.
>> right.
>> I have an idea that I壇 like for everybody to think about since we're going to bring this back, and that would be, I mean, I think there are a couple of people in this community that might be able, first of all, a couple people in this community that probably could do this job.
>> yep.
>> both of them. But one of the two of these people really might be interested in helping us go through this process where they would play an integral part in identifying the folks, if we were going to go with two executive manag managers, or, quite frankly, I mean, helping us determine whether or not there might be one person that could do both of these, both of these things we all know, if we were to say the name, we would [pro-el] all shake our heads, yeah, they could probably help us do that. I知 not sure that executive managers are interested in getting heavily involved in this of I mean, if we go the way that we have drawn this thing up, they are going to get heavily involved in it I think we're fixing to get pretty heavily involved in a yearly process that we do every year. So this is really going to take a lot, I mean, I don't think this thing can be done overnight. I mean, I do think that it's got to have somebody that's kind of taking the lead on it to really do the job that needs to be done. I mean, judge, I don't know how you get everything done that you do. I just can't see you having anymore responsibility. I know you're responsible enough to do whatever you need to do, but I壇 like for us to consider one or two names that we just talk with and say, how do you think that you might assist us in coming up with this process. And I think we can find that out before next week and just see quite frankly, I mean, I知 certainly willing to put the time into this thing. But I will tell you, I have will so many different subject matters coming at me in the precinct 3 office, that this, I think that the need that this calls for is some really concentrated effort. Because the last thing we want to did is just put somebody in the spot and just say they are close enough, get out there and do the job. This really may necessitate us considering, you know, paying somebody to help us identify this thing because I don't, quite frankly, I think our executive managers are going to have things handful with budget. We are just going to be squeezing this kind of stuff in. If this were in October, it would be one thing. But taking this thing on in June, just to try to short list, I mean, if we take our applicants that we have, is is--
>> you have an adequate job description, it's easy to get a committee of five or ten other people and say apply these criteria and tell us out of the 50, the best 20. It may be a little more difficult for them to reduce it down to the best two or three. But if you hand me 20 and the criteria, then in a couple of days I can get down to five or six. The secret I think is to try to figure out what the selection criteria are. I guarantee you, if you indicate to people in the criminal justice area, hey, we're thicking about bringing in a new executive manager with justice and public safety and here is a job description, any ideas about how to change it, and say, you know, we need your comments back in a week or ten days, I mean, I don't know that you will be flooded, but you will get some comments. Then you post the job and get people to apply. Sometimes if you get human resources and some others, two or three categories, meets qualifications, doesn't have any qualifications, exceeds qualifications, they can do a pretty decent job for you.
>> yes, we have seen some pretty good work in different areas ad hoc. Together we have gotten it done.
>> so we do the work in the manner that allows others to assist us, is the question. In the end I think we want to interview a short list of people to make the decision ourselves. But I don't know that that means we want to look at each and every application that's filed.
>> right.
>> don't forget what work horses our executive manag managers are. They demonstrate the ability to get the job done.
>> [indiscernible]
>> we owe it to carolyn and pete to get a resolution. Obviously, if this were something we could kick off until October. These folks have been very patient.
>> yes.
>> I think if we can't say names, I would want to have danny hobby come in and talk to us about this. And I would want to have joe lasar come in and see, you know, what his ideas are. I think somebody has got to take the lead on this thing. And that's their job. I mean, and identify how we would put this together and say that we would like for the time line. I don't think you can do it in less than 60 days.
>> probably not.
>> if you are taking 90 days we are just fixing to load up a couple of acting folks to take on the budget, you know, of these very important things. But I would think that those two names would have some real opinions about here is the process that I think that would work, and then if some executive managers want to participate in that, I don't know. You know, christian may, given what pop does -- pbo does, this hey be something -- this may be something, I mean, christian, is this something that you would rather have short listed, let me participate, let me have some say or get it to a spot and let me participate? It really is more of a pop kind of an action -- pbo kind of an action, I see, more than joe. I mean, not that joe can't participate. I mean, am I reading something wrong there? What is your opinion of this thing?
>> I would like very much to interview the top candidate and think that I can add value. And having seen the county before there were any executive managers, and where we are today, I壇 like to help, and have made that commit the. I don't think I can interview 20. I don't think I can go through, given the budget responsibilities. But I do think you are absolutely right that someone needs to play point to make it happen. Who then gets satisfaction out of accomplishing a job in a timely fashion. There is a void there. There also is a difference, and I at least wanted to give you a tool, you may not choose it. Well, we have chosen it once once. There is a difference between people who apply for jobs who are looking for a new adventure, and people who are doing a wonderful job who are available if someone asks them nationally nationally. And that's why people go to executive recruiting firms. They can manage this process process. They are expensive. They charge a percent and of the annual salary. We did that once for a i.t. Director. We have not done it for executive managers. I do believe that both of these, if you are going to go with two executive manag managers, these are extraordinarily attractive jobs from a national perspective. But there are people who would love to come to Austin and help make Austin a better place to liveto, who are well-known and are not looking for another job. But would need to be tapped. Those, that's where you get, I think, frequently, cream, os opposed to waiting to see what comes in the door and picking the best of what the available. Those are two very opposite strategies. One you need to go out and recruit. The other is more passive. And there's not a right or a wrong way, but if you're going to go with a high level person, a lot of organizations who are looking for high level people go out and hire somebody to do their recruiting for them. Just a thought.
>> don't let this day pass without giving us your thoughts on this.
>> I think it's been pretty well summarized. I would echo what he said.
>> ms. Flemming?
>> I am echoing as well. Thank you.
>> I don't think I would want to interview 20 people either. But I think that, I think that we're all capable here, with the executive managers, to help us. You know, I think you have an eye for what is required on applications and resumes. And to help us just cut the list down.
>> if you know exactly what we need, I think that simply phase this. If we knew exactly what we need and were able to reduce it to writing in a job description and posting, then I don't know that the whole world out there would qualify.
>> no.
>> but it will be a big accomplishment for us to reduce to writing language that captures exactly what we need.
>> right.
>> it doesn't bother me if we get some outside help. But whether we just post it and expect people to apply, whether we do a combination, in the end you still have to respond to the applications and resumes that we receive and figure out how you get to some big number down to one that the more manageable and then even get down to a smaller number from that number.
>> right.
>> for the whole court to interview.
>> yeah. Ab it's going to take some time anyway because we're set up for budget hearings in August. I think it's kind of difficult to find time to even think about interviews, much less, you know, getting there.
>> when you post the job, the typically you allow 30- 30-40 days just for posting. And if we get assistance with recruiting, I would think you would need 30, 45 days.
>> yeah.
>> so you can kind of work in spurts and work around the other things that we have to keep doing to make county government function. Ms. Flemming?
>> yes, sir, I felt compelled to remind the court that during the neck 6 60 days you will also be -- next 60 days you lo also be interviewing for an appointy for the he will care district -- appoint ee for the health care district. I wanted to remind you for that.
>> I知 happy to volunteer for that assignment, having done this last time around.
>> okay. Anything else on this item today?
>> no.
>> we will have it back on next week. The directions today basically are toward the two executive managers. Let come back if we have further idea to discuss them and take action next week. Okay? I値l try to take ms. Coburn coburn's draft memo, refine it and let us have something specific to respond to.
>> great.
>> with that, move to recess until 1:30.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:38 AM