Travis County Commissioners Court
March 7, 2006
Item 16
16. Consider and take -- just this is important I think for our retirees and county employees to know. It's to consider and take appropriate action on revision to Travis County code section 10.018 on re-employment that defines eligibility for re-employment with benefits to comply with state law.
>> good morning. Human resources management department. You have before you a revised policy, 10.018 entitled reemployment. As you indicated judge in the motion, this particular item has to do with defining Travis County's policy on the rehire of our retirees. This -- this actually is coming before the court to comply with house bill 633, which was effective 1-1-06. That does allow individuals who retire from any tcdrs entity, receiving annuity to be reemployed. As we developed our internal team of all of the appropriate departments, we have had extensive discussions with those entities within Travis County to conclude that revising our current reinstatement policy to one of reemployment, with most appropriate -- was most appropriate for what we are trying to achieve. The proposed policy actually addresses the eligibility for reemployment and benefits. Not only for -- for employees limited in the reinstatement policy, but for those who have resigned, retired or laid off. So we really have broadened what we are bringing before you today. It also indicates that an individual is not entitled to any accrual of benefits and/or service credits. Our current policy does allow that for an employee coming back. That particular --
>> in simple english that means what?
>> what that means is that we are complying with the law, first of all. And also it does mean that a person who comes back into Travis County, actually begins employment as if they are a new employee. There are no commitments, there are no obligations, there's no pre-arrangement that they would be coming back into any arrangement such as what they left.
>> pick up where they left off -- [indiscernible] they start as a brand new employee.
>> they start as a new employee, begin accruing again towards a second type of annuity with tcdrs while they are receiving their annuity that they would have earned and been placed into retirement status on.
>> when they would have left they would have gotten a final check from us the first time around that basically trues up any kind of sick leave, vacation leave, anything that they were entitled to.
>> exactly.
>> they would have already cleaned out that account and had a true up with the county. So they truly are starting over.
>> exactly.
>> so there's nothing to go back to.
>> even our employment process, they are actually processed as an individual, assuming that they never even worked for the county. They are processed, they apply for the job, the policy reflects that they would not receive any prior benefits or concessions for having been employed with Travis County. It's as if they are coming in as a brand new employee to the county.
>> are you able to continue to receive the -- the retirement benefits that you were receiving?
>> absolutely. And that's a part of what the -- what the legislation permitted to have happen. And county attorney may wish to respond to that. But, yes ...
>> let me make sure that you understand my question. John doe leaves the county, basically starts getting all of the benefits, including a retirement check each month. And lo and behold there's an entry level posting that the -- that the retiree is interested in. He applies to the job, gets hired, he comes in, starts from scratch, but does he still continue to receive the monthly retirement check?
>> the -- the amendment to the -- to the retirement systems authorizing legislation that was passed in the last legislature said that -- that you could maintain your -- maintain your payments under your annuity which is different from what the situation was before that amendment, because as soon as you started getting a paycheck and contributing to the system again, your annuity check would be cut off. That's no longer the case.
>> I may have also -- also that a provision in the legislation requires at least a 30 day separation period. What we are putting before you is a 90 day separation period to ensure that all of the paperwork has gone through the system to completely terminate that person as an employee of the county. It makes things clean for us in terms of internal processing, tcdrs processing the annuity and opens the door for the person to be considered as a new employee should they choose to apply for an entry level position.
>> these are all employees who may -- may be 65 and under? Or 6 -- and also includes 65 and over?
>> there was no age limitation to it. A person who actually has met the eligibility requirements of tcdrs.
>> what about medicare, would they lose that if they are getting it already?
>> my understanding of medicare, I haven't researched this to be absolutely certain, if you are employed if your employer provides health care benefits, then -- then the employer's benefits are primary and medicare is secondary. Which means that -- that we would be picking up the cost of their medical care, but anything that -- that we didn't pick up that medicare would have covered it's still there for them from the standpoint of --
>> sounds like they don't lose it. It will still --
>> okay.
>> still have it.
>> exactly.
>> okay.
>> if somebody is getting health insurance, they would -- they would -- let's say there's more of a break there, retirees health insurance, they would be flipping back and having the county paying for their health insurance, correct?
>> yes.
>> yes.
>> well, I said yes but that's a maybe yes because it would depend on the position that they were hired into. If the position that they were hired into would normally receive health then yes they would. If they came back in a position for 15 hours, that would not normally receive health benefits, so the answer would be no they wouldn't because that's not a position that any other employee in that position would have gotten health benefits for, but they would still continue their retiree benefits.
>> there you go. I want to make sure we keep these folks in line. I think that we have talked about them as the gap people, of whether they did or did not choose to trigger their retiree health benefits, whether they ever get to come back. [inaudible - no mic] if the gapers wind up coming back, they become a new active employee. Would they then have a new shot at retiree benefits? If they had declined them first time around. I love asking -- those questions.
>> having been a part of the committee that is discussing how retiree health benefits will be added and is working on -- on a policy that would come to the court for your decision, I would have to say at this point I really don't know because we haven't brought you a policy and you haven't approved it. It will depend entirely upon how that's put together. If we choose to do -- to treat it the way that the retirement system treats a rehire after retirement, what we would be doing is saying yes they can have a second bite at the apple, but they are going to have to comply with all of the requirements as if they were starting from scratch. Like when you are rehired to vest for the second time that you are -- that your -- you are building an annuity for, you don't vest until you have been here eight years. Now you would be eligible for retirement probably a lot sooner because since you would be older when you started you would have the age factor plus the time that you worked. So -- but I mean so you -- it wouldn't take you quite as long the second time around. After you have vested but you would still have to pay.
>> [indiscernible] I?m sorry. But looking at -- [indiscernible] this thing is applicable also to persons that resigned, people that are also laid off. It's just not that focused on retirees, those are the two cat imoars. Let's say -- categories. Let's say for instance a person has 7.5 years vested in -- in Travis County. In contribution. In other words vested in the retirement system with tcdrs --
>> the word vested has a special legal meaning multiple multi-
>> well, contribution let me put it like that. Contribution da-da-da, according to our policy you have to have at least eight years before you become vested.
>> uh-huh.
>> okay. Through no fault of this person, let's say they have a reorg or a rif or something like that. This person has seven and a half, you need six more months to reach that golden eight year, to be vested, laid off, [indiscernible] whatever you want to call it, later they come back and are rehired. Do they lose that -- that seven and a half years or do they have to start over from scratch?
>> that depends on the choices that that employee made at the time that they were riffed. Because if an employee for any reason leaves the county after 7.5 years and goes to work wherever else they might go to, come back however much later they wanted to and had never taken their money out of the retirement system, then when they come back, six months will buy them vesting. If on the other hand they said oh, I?m not working for Travis County and I?ve got $5,000 in the retirement system, I really would like to have whatever, a new car, a vacation, they take the money out of the system, their contribution is out of the system, they come back to work, then they start at square 1 because they have chosen to withdraw the money and the money is not there and they lose their service credit as well.
>> is all of this going to drive you crazy with gas gasby 45.
>> it's not because one thing is at issue here. We are really talking about whole lots of policies, but the one that should be clear is that health benefits are determined by the Commissioners court for a year on an annual basis. Whether those are retiree benefits or current benefits, those plans can change. And have change understand the past. Sometimes we were insured, sometimes self-insured. Sometimes three plans, sometimes two. That separate issue is an annual decision made by the Commissioners court. If they contribute to retiree health insurance, how much, what plans, it's also an annual decision by the Commissioners court. So when people are looking at health, they should see, you know, what's -- what's the plan that year. These other things are very different because we have long standing policies, there is a lot of statutes surrounding the retirement system. It is more clearly defined, the legislature works into that. So I just wanted to make sure that the health part doesn't get, you know, co-mingled. [multiple voices]
>> whatever the plan is at the time that that person would become reemployed.
>> that's the benefit that would be available to them.
>> exactly.
>> what you are suggesting is that there has to be accommodating health obviously that may need to be determined from this particular change --
>> no. No.
>> no.
>> is that [multiple voices]
>> have to -- [multiple voices]
>> let's say that you left the year that we were covered by blue cross. Let's say that. The year you left Travis County we were covered by blue cross and the provisions of the health plan that we had then. Well, if you came back this year, we don't have that coverage anymore. We have got different plans, different coverage, different fees. And so your -- what you were subject to this year would be what the Commissioners court adopted this year. Not necessarily when you left. So people need to be sure that they get adequate information when they make these kinds of decisions like go over to h.r., get thoroughly educated in -- in, you know, what their benefits might or might not be, what the -- go to tcdrs, make sure that you know what you are going to get from them. Just like the Commissioners court has given colas occasionally, this court more often than not to retirees, but that doesn't mean that you should assume, if you are retiring, that that will happen every year because that is an annual decision made by the Commissioners court. That's all that I want to make sure that people don't get an idea that there's a commitment out there that none of us have the authority to make.
>> yeah, okay, I follow you, okay.
>> [indiscernible]
>> I want to clarify from Travis County auditor's office. What barbara was talking about related to service credit, related to Commissioner Davis' question. You never lose your service credit. That stays with you forever. If you take your money out, whether you take your money out or not, it doesn't matter. Your service credit remains on the books. But if in fact you have no money in there, there's nothing to match, in fact no pension. Your service credit never goes away, if you come back per Commissioner Davis' question, if you come back work another six months or 15 years, that 7.5 years will start count on toward your vesting, there's just no money there. There's nothing to match for that period if you have withdrawn it. But that service credit never goes away as long as you have an account. If you leave and take your money out, it won't show up, if you come back they will repost that 7.5 years of service.
>> if the person have the money they can put it back. They can also invest put that money back if they withdrew it.
>> there were changes that will allow them under certain circumstances to put that money back, that's handled correctly through tcdrs not the county. I would have to get additional information from that. The changes in the law the last two sessions substantially changes the way tcdrs interacts with former account holders, the way we interact, the reason that we are here, the way we interact with them. There have been a lot of changes on all different levels. I didn't want that point to get lost that you never lose your service credit. But if you have no money -- what difference does it make? There's nothing to match.
>> before this -- before this change in law, if you were receiving a monthly pension, reemployed by Travis County would your pension be cut off.
>> yes.
>> as long as you continued to work.
>> yes.
>> okay. That's good news. Two final items, we have created a declaration authorization form, not only used for this particular policy but for other concerns related to processing retirees out, if you will. The declaration form actually indicates in here as required by the legislation that there is no prearrangement for reemployment and that the 90 day period they understand is required for them to return should they choose to do so. We have a frequently asked questions list that's on the back. That we would be distributing to anyone raising questions about the policy in addition to of course the policy assuming approval. The appropriate changes have been coordinated with the i.t. Department and benefits, so that -- so that our open enrollment system will accommodate the re-enrollment of those who -- who might come back into Travis County. So with that, again, we are recommend being the courts -- recommending the court's approval of this revised policy to be effective 1 -- actually, 1-1-06, that's when the law went into effect.
>> our policy seems to place the burden of complying on the employee. Is that intentional or just -- that was just a simple way to word it. Where the employee may do this, the employee shall do that. I mean -- I?m not sure that -- our goal in developing the policy was to ensure that Travis County comply was the legislation. And --
>> employee may not seek or have an agreement, promise or da-da-da. The county shall not give the employee a promise or da-da-da. We mean both of them.
>> yes. I just wearing my employee hat there, ms. Wilson.
>> that's fine [laughter]
>> move approval.
>> second.
>> discussion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Thank you all very much.
>> thank you.
>> thank you very much.
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Last Modified:
Tuesday, March 7, 2006 2:46 PM