Travis County Commissioners Court
February 21, 2006
Item 25
25, there was a question of that. 25. Approve twelve-month extension (modification no. 1) to contract no. 05t00174ld, gt distributors, for taser systems and accessories. (sheriff)
>> judge, the reason I brought this up has to do with -- I know that Commissioner Davis brought this up before in terms of making sure that we have a public discussion any time that we bring up the use of tasers. And I have voted for this in the past, but I have gotten to a point now because of a couple of incidents that have happened in the last year, that -- that have -- have resulted in -- in issues because you do not know the -- the condition of the person who is the tasee, in terms of whether they have a medical condition, whether they have taken certain kind of drugs that can create with the introduction of a taser, deadly results or certainly injuries simply because you just don't know who that person is on the ground and what their medical condition is. So -- so I知 at a point now that -- that I need to take a timeout on tasers. Until we can get some -- some good discussion going with our serve and talk about who is doing this and under what circumstances. But I need a time out on tasers because I think that we have had incidents in our community that should make us pause in relation to medical, medical consequences of those devices.
>> [indiscernible] additional information on that.
>> can we --
>> [indiscernible] information needed. I was under the impression that it was either the taser or 38 or a 357 magnum in which case most of the time a taser would be better. Isn't this a question for the sheriff's office?
>> it is.
>> I think if -- let's take a [multiple voices] if anybody has specific questions for the sheriff.
>> I know Commissioner Davis has had questions about tasers in the past as well. So I don't think I知 the only one here that raised questions. We can wait a week, that would be great.
>> doesn't bother me at all. Get your questions to the sheriff and we will have it back on next week.
>> thank you.
number 25. That we just briefly discussed is to approve 12-month extension (modification no. 1) to contract no. 05t00174ld, gt distributors, for taser systems and accessories.
>> judge, this contract does expire today, so if we don't extend it today, I知 not sure if we would have to rebid or --
>> automatic extension clause in here?
>> no it's not automatic. It's unilateral. We have to right to --
>> [multiple voices]
>> how much money is the contract for?
>> well, this past 12 months we spent about 76,000.
>> do you have a copy of the contract, that I can take a look at.
>> I don't have it with me.
>> I don't have it with me.
>> we can track it down so we can see what those provisions say. Then maybe it's automatic.
>> I don't believe these are automatic.
>> okay.
>> in fairness to the sheriff's office, the sheriff sent things on to the purchasing back in January 11th. So it was not because the sheriff's office did not move this forward.
>> scott, what can you tell us about -- about your -- your thoughts about -- or what do you think the department's thoughts are about tasers.
>> well, so far -- scott buroughs, sheriff's office, so far very successful where our line officers, we've had quite a bit of experience with them over the last 24 months, with not seeing any secondary injuries. In fact the -- the injuries from the taser are to the person that's being arrested is no greater in most instances less damaging than say a night stick or even oc spray.
>> haven't we had some situations over at a.p.d., the one that I知 thinking about was the person who had sickle cell anemia, it was something there was some kind of a situation specifically related to that that aggravated that particular condition and there was one other one, not involving tcso, but a.p.d., where you don't know the medical condition or whether they have taken some kind of drugs or medication, illegal or legal, you just don't know and there have been some things that -- that I think have to raise some concern by anybody that just pays attention to on that, that we have been lucky nothing happened in our department. But there have been things that have happened here in Austin that have to give you pause to say do we need to reflect and it may be that you go we do still need to move forward. But I would like to see a time out if nothing else of -- or at least something that says, acknowledges, that there have been problems with these tasers within our own community and I don't see that pause and that's the kind of thing when I look at my attorneys of making sure that we have done our due diligence and we are not just renewing because it is a valuable tool when there could be a litigation side to this that I want to make sure that I知 doing my due diligence.
>> can we get from the sheriff's office a commitment not to order under this contract until Commissioner Sonleitner's questions have been answered and at least to the best of the sheriff's office ability?
>> yeah, that would be fine.
>> what we are doing is putting the contract in place against which orders may be placed. If you hold off on placing orders until whatever issues there are -- [multiple voices] -- how's is that? And there are -- there are legitimate concerns and things have happened, luckily not at Travis County, but other places, a.p.d. And other jurisdictions, that we have read about in Texas and outside of Texas. So let's address those before we place orders, but let's just put the contract in place to preserve it. We can do that. Right? If we just get a commitment from you.
>> yeah, we are good with that.
>> all right. How does that sound? If --
>> I知 not trying to hold out the business, you all have been very good in the past when this has been brought up. This is not the first time we raised questions. I think Commissioner Davis had the questions last time. Just -- the sheriff was here, we went on ahead because it was a very good explanation of the choices that you all have. But there have been some things that have happened in the last year that I think it is good for us to put those in the public record about -- about having been some kind of a reflection, analysis, and if we still move forward, at least we can say that we did take that pause in case there is some kind of a situation that occurs that we didn't just -- just move ahead without taking that moment of due diligence. It may be a week of reflection that at some point it may be necessary to say I知 glad that we took a moment there.
>> we have done that internally, also. There were no tasers in this year's budget as you will notice.
>> during the incidences that you have -- that your folks have used tasers, what would have been the alternative had they not had a taser at the time that they used a taser?
>> on the taser use it's always part of the -- of the escalation of force curriculum that we use and any time that you use an intermediate weapon, anything other than hands on, our department internally we have straight sticks, with a baton, which is a traditional night stick, oc spray, which is a pepper spray, then the tasers are the intermediate weapons that we use primarily right now.
>> do you feel like that -- obviously you feel like that the taser is the most effective way with dealing with people that -- that you are having to -- that you are having issues with? I mean which is I guess the reason that you are using them, correct?
>> I知 not prepared to say it's the most effective way, but it's been very effective so far in our own experience with them.
>> okay.
>> my motion is to approve the 12-month extension, conditioned upon the -- the sheriff's office agreement basically to allow us an opportunity to address some of these issues before we place orders against it.
>> second.
>> did we -- do you want us to bring something back to the Commissioners court, a public discussion on the tase other -- not in the form of a contract but it need to be more in the form of a -- some kind of an update or status report? I -- because if we put the contract in place then it either moves forward or we decide to cancel it, which would take a different kind of a posting. I don't think we are going there. But I just -- we need to be able to get that update and put it in the public record, let people know what's going on here.
>> those who have questions, if you would get those to -- should they get them to you?
>> that would be fine.
>> okay. We will get written responses in either a work session or voting session, either one is fine with me.
>> very good.
>> any more discussion? All in favor? Show Commissioners Gomez, Daugherty and yours truly voting in favor.
>> abstaining so I can get the questions answered, thanks.
>> abstaining, Commissioner Sonleitner.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:26 AM