Travis County Commissioners Court
February 21, 2006
Item 1
1. Receive comments -- number one is a public hearing to receive comments regarding a petition for the creation of an emergency services district #13 in the part of northeast Travis County that is not currently served by another district.
>> move to open the public hearing.
>> second.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Of those present. Good morning.
>> good morning, judge, dan smith, off of the county judge. Office of the county judge. I have submitted a memo to you, judge, and the court last week. Laying out the history of how we got to this point on the creation of this proposed esd. We received the application and petition back in September. The application petition was reviewed and it met all of the requirements of the governing statute. After that, we filed the petition and application with the county clerk. And it was the responsibility of the applicant to submit a either to the city of elgin. To see if the etj, a portion of the etj of elgin would be included. Would be -- would be given -- granted permission for them to include a portion of the etj of elgin in the newly proposed esd. That request was made by the -- by letter from an attorney that was working with the applicant by the name of ken campbell, who is here today. On September 2nd. City council meeting of the city of elgin on October 18th. The request was denied. After numerous readings over the last few months, the applicant decided photo petition the city of elgin for services. And so they decided to exclude the portion of -- of the etj of elgin out of the proposed new esd. And then of course the Commissioners court set the public hearing on January 17th for the hearing to occur today. All of the postings requirements related to this public hearing have been met. Notices have been published in the newspaper. Notice was published by the -- notice was posted on the courthouse door by the sheriff and all of the requirements have been met. The purpose of this public hearing is to take comments from citizens in the area. Relating to the creation of this newly proposed esd. The Commissioners court, if they grant the petition, they must call an election at the next uniform election date, which would be may 13th. And that's 62 -- that calling of that election has to be issued 62 days before that date. You could call the election today after hearing testimony. If you choose. If you choose not, you have an opportunity next Tuesday and the Tuesday after that. The last available date to call the election would be on March 12th, but the last meeting of the Commissioners court is March 7th. And then, of course, there is an order that has been prepared just in case you want to do any of those. And ms. Olson is here to advise you on any legal questions that you have.
>> I assume Commissioner Davis would want to be here on the date that we take action.
>> yes, sir.
>> therefore, it may make sense to wait until next week to take action. We have another couple of weeks, right?
>> yes.
>> it is my understanding, judge -- excuse me, it's my understanding, judge, that Commissioner Davis has made that request that you not take action today.
>> so we will have it on next week for action. The backup says that the health and safety code at 775.017 says that the Commissioners court must determine "that the creation of the district is feasible and will promote the public safety, welfare, health and convenience of persons residing in the proposed district. The Commissioners court shall grant the petition, fix the district's boundaries and impose any conditions if we make the feasibility determination and find that the other criteria are met." right? Okay. Which brings to -- to mind several questions. One, I guess is that if -- if part of the district was -- was carved out because of the situation with elgin and I guess on the other side another esd, then what is the population of the remaining district, what do we think the approximate tax base will be, what will the -- if a new district is created, what will they be able to do with projected revenue, whether other -- whether other means of -- of getting services have been reviewed and attempted and I know there have been some efforts. And what I知 thinking about is there are two -- there are two districts just right there contiguous to this one. And if they don't have enough revenue to really become automatic ton autonomous and self sufficient my guess is they will end up taking any revenue generated from a tax and contracting with one of the existing esd's anyway. So the question is whether it will make more sense to go ahead and just contract with them without creating the district. In the back of my mind is the fact that we have a whole lot of districts already. I知 tempted to say too many and half of them have a -- have a tax base that's sufficient to really deliver the required services and the other half probably don't. Half of them problematic, the other half are self sufficient and I think to the residents there do a lot of good. Those were my initial thoughts as I read the backup. Barbara, any additional words before we take comments?
>> just that -- that as you determine feasibility, feasibility isn't limited to just population or tax base. It's any aspect of running the operation of the district that's relevant to whether they can make a going concern of the district. And the things that I always think of when it comes to the districts is that each district needs to have five members on the board of directors and the smaller the district, the -- the smaller the number of people that you will have to draw from to find directors. But that -- you know, you could have a very small district with very, very interested people who -- who, you know, that would not create a problem for you. But that's another factor that you can consider. And I think that -- that because you have worked with districts more than I have, you may think of other factors that I haven't thought of that you would consider important in determining whether it's feasible to make this area a going concern as a district.
>> how many have come down to give testimony on this item today? Keep your hands up, I知 looking at it. What's that, 10 -- say 10? Several county people are here on other items. I would be real surprised if the -- if the public defenders office comes up this morning. And -- and what item is that?
>> [indiscernible]
>> okay. I would be real surprised if this doesn't take us 45 minutes to an hour. Then we have justice of the peace come down on the collection item. The j.p.'s are coming, mr. Nellis?
>> judge bambry is here.
>> [inaudible - no mic] that item will take 20 to 30 minutes unless this court is incredibly sufficient. I think that you could safely say for an hour, unless you are here on item no. 1 or the collection item, that probably if you are here at 10:30 you are in good shape. Okay? Now, any excepts from the court on number 1 before we take comments from the citizens? Dan, if you would sit on one end, we will have four seats available. If you would come forward and give us your full name, we would be happy to get your comments. It may help to stress a little bit about exactly what the problem is and why creation of a new district in your view is the -- is the fix.
>> I知 [indiscernible], president of the black land concerned citizens association. I would like to thank the Commissioners and judge Biscoe the opportunity to cover some of our concerns this morning. We have been working on this for approximately five years. We have gone through what we thought was a somewhat orderly process. We have spent time with -- with the -- with the various fire departments, that were surrounded by copeland, Pflugerville, manor and elgin. Our group basically being on the eastern part of the county, wanted and desires to go with the elgin group. We have -- we have basically attempted to meet awful the -- to meet all of the requirements, appears have been successful up to this point. We are rural area, but we are growing. We -- one of the reasons, of course, why elgin was reluctant to allow us to take in their e.t.j. Is that the new subdivisions are on the -- on the western edge of the elgin development area. And so -- so of course that -- that as a result that leaves us with a ruler with a -- with a rural population, elderly, getting older many times, as a result needing these services. So it's our desire to at least have some control over our life. And that was the -- one of the driving factors where we have worked to put together this esd. You question the amount of funds. We are probably looking at conservatively 55,000. The far end probably 62, $63,000. Presently.
>> annually?
>> annually.
>> annually, yes.
>> okay.
>> is this --
>> one of our desires, we work closely with elgin and the elgin volunteer fire department, fire chief larry feaner is here, if you have questions, in terms of they are also working on their side of the county line to put together an emergency services district and we would anticipate contracting with them for the services. We realize that we are not large enough to be self sufficient. But we do feel like that we -- because we owe oat area tends to be closer -- because the area tends to be closer to the elgin group, their present land acquisition that they have, where they will be building their new fire station, interestingly enough, is actually in Travis County. So -- so that's our desire to -- to go with them. We have met with them numerous times. We have worked with them. They have worked with us in putting this esd together.
>> so this is the elgin esd?
>> they are working on an elgin esd, a bastrop county esd in the elgin area. I will be happy to stand for questions.
>> are you part of the district that we are discussing today?
>> yes.
>> so the whole district would go with the elgin esd or just part of it?
>> whole district. What happened early on, we have met with all of the fire chiefs from the named cities that I have talked about earlier and at one point we felt like basically the key was to get the services to the citizens in the area. And as a result, we asked the fire chiefs to meet and determine what they best felt was an area that they could serve. The area that we are asking to -- to have the emergency services district created for was determined to -- to be best served by the elgin area. So that's why that we were attempting to go that route or are interested in going that route.
>> as far as you know, the elgin esd is interested in taking on your area?
>> yes, they are. Yes, they are.
>> okay.
>> is the 55 to 62,000, is that assuming the full 10-cent rate --
>> yes, ma'am.
>> great, thank you very much.
>> yes, it is.
>> okay. Now we have at least four chairs, I don't know where dan went. We have at least four chairs there, so it helps us if four people would come forward. If you -- any additional questions, if there's someone there from elgin esd, is there time to come forward? Your testimony is that the contract with the elgin esd.
>> that is correct, sir.
>> and a newly formed district.
>> process of forming.
>> that will be the best way to go.
>> yes.
>> mr. Kessler we will need your chair.
>> okay.
>> we will need others to come forthright now, two more people on this item. Sometime the county judge cuts off public testimony when people are reluctant to come forward. [laughter] his there are two chairs, if somebody can take those, what we would like to do is start at one end, work our way to the other.
>> judge, I can give up my chair, ken campbell really as a resource witness to answer any more resource questions that you may have.
>> ken if you sit on the end there, by the time we get to you, we may have resource questions. Okay. Yes, ma'am.
>> > I知 jody [indiscernible], I live in northeast Travis County. I don't know so much about if we need district or not. But I know that I live four miles from where they are going to build a new fire station. And I know that I live 20 miles from manor. So if I need to have an emergency it definitely I would like to call elgin. Would like for elgin to be able to respond.
>> so a new fire station is the new elgin esd fire station.
>> yes.
>> okay.
>> that's it.
>> makes sense to me.
>> yes, sir?
>> my name is -- excuse me, my name is larry faner, the fire chief at elgin fire department. Currently we are in the process, we will be having a final meeting tonight of forming an esd in bastrop county. We will be taking in parts all the way to east of mcdade, which is about 10 miles east of elgin, if you all are familiar with the area. We have one esd in bastrop county already. In the southern part. But since -- since the people from the black land prairie committee have contacted us, we have met with them continually, we've gone over things, we've talked. We've met with -- with mr. Davis and ms. Sonleitner at -- at a meeting one time at the [indiscernible] church. The people out in this area have talked with us. Asked us different things. And they felt that their -- their -- served their community better would be to go with elgin. Our new fire station, as they did mention, is just inside Travis County line, on county line road, and f.m. 1100. We will be starting construction sometime this year. As soon as we get our building plans finished. Elgin would be more than happy to serve this area. This -- this traditionally, I have been in the elgin fire department 40 years. And as long as I can remember, we have served this area of Travis County, we've even gone as far west as seal when the seal gin burned way back in the 1960s. We feel that we could cover the area very good. We have a good fire department, we have 40 plus members. First responder group with 8 certified eca's and three emt's in our department. We also have -- have seven more people signed up to take first responder courses. And to pass the national certification for that. And -- we are also backed up by -- by not only Austin e.m.s., Travis County e.m.s., but also metro care ambulance service, which runs in bastrop county. We do our first responding through metro care. We have been in -- in dialogue with dr. Ed rach, Travis County e.m.s., dr. Rach is on board with us to get us more training. If we were to get this area to -- to enable us to follow Travis County's protocols, and how he likes his business run. Other than that, I -- I don't know anything else that I could add. Unless you have a question.
>> esd has to be approved by what voters in elgin?
>> sir.
>> the elgin esd that you have in mind, has to be approve bid what voters? Approved by what voters?
>> it will be the people in the elgin city limits on the bastrop county side and then we would probably have to come back to you the Commissioners in Travis County. Part of elgin city limits is in Travis County, so there would have to be a vote there for those people to be in the elgin city limits in the esd. The reason that the city of elgin voted down the black land prairie committee's request for having the e.t.j. In the city limits of elgin in their proposed esd was that -- that the Travis County black land prairie people are just a little bit ahead of us. So they didn't know about the esd for bastrop county, so therefore if -- if they were to let black land prairie esd have this -- have this city limits and etj in Travis County, then that could -- could be passed and those people over there would be paying more taxes than the people in the city limits in the bastrop county side. So they just kind of postponed this until we can get our esd up and running because they didn't want, you know, part of the citizens paying more taxes than the other ones were doing.
>> right now you have a volunteer fire department?
>> yes, sir, we are volunteer. We have -- 40 members. And we also have 10, we call -- they are kind of like retired firemen, but they are are backup. They can come out and help us, they can do everything except put on bunker gear and go into a burning structure. But we average -- since I took over chief in September, we are averaging about 20 firemen per call, whether it be rescue, fire, our e.m.s. People, we are averaging about three or four a call.
>> so if the Travis County district 13, the new one, is created, they would first contract with the volunteer fire department? Then after the new elgin esd is created, then contract with it? Does your fire department has the oart to contract with -- have the authority to contract with the Travis County newly created district 13.
>> > if our fire department is asked, we will contract with them. Our fire department took a unanimous vote at a meeting in first of December to -- to actively pursue and to give any help we can to the formation of esd and -- in Travis County and in bastrop.
>> okay.
>> but you believe that elgin voters once given the opportunity will -- will approve the creation of a new elgin esd?
>> yes, sir. I have met -- I致e had public meetings with -- with three different groups in elgin, I知 continuing that. I知 going to have another one south of town of elgin, a little community called [indiscernible] on March the 3rd. So far all of the people that I have met with, they have told us that -- that if -- if we get the petition to them, that they could have me 100 signatures in one day.
>> what schedule are you on? When do you hope to get to vote?
>> November.
>> okay. Any other questions of chief crinkle?
>> foehner.
>> I guess that was her that spoke. Chief foehner. Thank you. Ms. Anderson.
>> I知 marlin samuelson, I live in northeast Travis County. Like mr. Kessler said, we have been working on this esd or fire protection for our county because we have always been in no man's land. And we just felt like it was time that we got this done. One reason that we have gone ahead and -- with our own rather than wait and file a two county esd with elgin is because this way our Commissioners can appoint, we don't have to have an election year for the fire commissions of the esd? That would save tax money that we could be using for services. And -- and I think that we are viable -- I think we are growing out there, too, so our increase in our tax revenue will -- will increase.
>> if the elgin vote is successful, and those residents do not favor the creation of a new elgin esd, then what -- what would be y'all's strategy?
>> that would be up to the Commissioners, but I think we could still contract with the elgin fire department. If they qualify in emt and everything else. If some of our citizens on the south side of 290. If manor could serve them, we are -- we are open to negotiation. Our main primary goal is to serve the people. That's what we want is service to our people.
>> okay. Any questions of ms. Samuelson.
>> great to see you.
>> my name is Gerald larson, I知 from the lund community. And -- and my biggest worry is response time. I worked for the fire department here in Austin for 25 years, that's all I ever heard was response, you better get there. I was wondering whatever happens will there be a station out in that part of the county or will they have to come from wells branch. Or where will this -- this unit, if the elgin doesn't get it, be located? Now I have on Travis County line, on the Travis County side, you have a -- you have a grade school, brand new, the elgin high school, which is three years old, all of those people are in Travis County. So it will have to be serviced. If not by elgin, Travis County. That's a bunch of new -- plus a bunch of new homes that they have just built all in Travis County and they are coming this way. So that was my biggest problem, response time. Because they are not only going to have to get there, 30 minute ride to the hospital nearly anywhere. Taylor might be 20. So we are kind of out in the fringes. That was my biggest question.
>> being on. So who responds now? -- okay. So who responds now? Does it come from the elgin volunteer fire department and the other two esd's in Travis County.
>> depends on what number you call. If you call 911, probably you will get Travis County. Although they will have to -- they will have to come all the way out and then pick you up. Star flight will come. Much it's just one of those out in the country. So in my opinion it's not only service but how close are they going to be.
>> the closest one would be the new station in elgin.
>> like four miles.
>> okay. Any questions of mr. Larson?
>> thank you.
>> anybody else before mr. Campbell? Gives us resource information.
>> mr. Campbell.
>> I actually have a question that came up. Help me out with the timing on trying to make all of this stuff happen. Because I know when I was dealing with -- when I was dealing with the situation out in western Travis County, that they needed to do it earlier in the year. Otherwise they would lose out on an opportunity to get this into the tax base and therefore get dollars starting immediately when ms. Spears sends out the tax bills, if there was a delay until November they missed out. Help me walk through that, ken, in terms of is this that opportunity, if you don't do this now, there's the chance that they will have to wait another full year to get any tax revenues.
>> yes, Commissioner. That's why we have been sort of in a rush to get this done before the may election, since we have been reduced to two uniform election dates, we missed a bite in February. So that's a major concern. So we can actually get set up, get the Commissioners appointed if it's created sometime after July 1st. They could set a tax rate at the end of this year, a normal process. The -- the other issue related to that is that the elgin side is going for the November election and we are going to be sort of disjointed here. One of my concerns would be that we are leaving out the city of elgin, elgin e.t.j. In Travis County, we are going to end up with the same problem only smaller and more intense. That's a big concern, we are trying to do a two county esd for bastrop county that would include all of elgin in Travis County, including its e.t.j. All the way back to mcdade. That would be elected because otherwise this is going to be rather awkward.
>> which raises the question, why wouldn't our strategy be to go ahead and create one big esd to cover the elgin area and the Travis County area? I understand the difference would be that the directors would be elected. But why wouldn't that be a better strategy than creating two that would be smaller, especially the Travis County one, and then entering into some sort of an interlocal agreement to provide pretty much the same.
>> service, this is ken campbell's opinion. Okay. Actually two esd's, one taking up all of the area in Travis County that's not in an esd currently, then one taking up the bastrop area they are looking at forming would probably be the best solution for a number of reasons. One you wouldn't have to elect folks which costs easily $15,000 -- $50,000 a year, 50 to $60,000 off the top is what you can deliver in resources. That's going to be the best option. I知 going to repeat what I heard, not my message, there were a lot of concerns in bastrop county that the Travis County side would eventually control it if they were elected, conversely the bastrop county side would control those elections due to population shifts prior to Travis County that area getting built out. So they really wanted to try to avoid that. We have come back to the two county concept. That's why we went away from -- we have come back to the one county concept with two -- with both counties in there. We got away from the two county district. That's where elgin kind of stepped out of the picture, said we don't want our people taxed at a different rate, which of course they already are, they are in the hospital district here, different tax rate for county taxes and other issues. But they didn't want to have it divided up between two different districts, although we have done that specifically in land on burnet county. They contract with each other. One actually provides the service, the other just meets so that they can do that across county lines that way. If there's any way to do this, right now we are looking at doing the two county model. Since this petition has already been there, it's best to get somebody start and get us going. That's the biggest problem, as they said it's been six or seven years for me with people asking me to help them get this done we need to get something done. That's the most important aspect of this. Right now the only piece of the picture that they really miss on the Travis County side would be first responder service. They don't have any first responder service at this point. And that could be very vital for this area. Until -- once elgin gets up to speed, gets in under the Travis County guidelines, which we are working on now, then that's going to be a piece of the puzzle that will be plugged in whether there's an esd or not. These people have worked very hard to tax themselves for a better level of service. That's why we appreciate your consideration today.
>> we believe that if the new Travis County esd is created, we would be able to find individuals willing to serve as directors?
>> I think so. It's been hard in the past sometimes and that's another reason why electing these officials is difficult because if you can't find them just to appoint them, it's going to be harder to find somebody to run for it and spend some money. That's another reason why this multi-county esd has been sort of bounced around as we have gone through the process.
>> do we know about how many people live in the Travis County potential district?
>> I do not have that number, judge.
>> just guess at it for me, judge?
>> 50 or 500? Or 5,000?
>> probably more like -- I would say 3,000.
>> okay.
>> all right. Any other comments? Did we miss anybody? Last opportunity? We will have it back on the court's agenda next week. Probably near the top. So we can take it early. Anything else from the court?
>> move that the public hearing be closed.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Thank you all very much for coming down.
>> any folks, public hearing closing comments?
>> no.
>> thank you for working with these. I guess if there's legal questions, mr. Campbell we ought to contact you and -- and for the lay people, anybody who gave testimony today? Is that all right?
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:09 PM