Travis County Commissioners Court
January 3, 2006
Executive Session Items
That does it for us except for executive session. Right? And we have the following items to discuss in executive session: number 21 is to consider and take appropriate action on staff recommendation to extend leave with pay, employee numbers 10011 and 135812 per Travis County code section 10.045. That's under the consultation with attorney and personnel matters exceptions to the open meetings act. 22, receive briefing from county attorney and take appropriate action regarding settlement offer in Travis County medical examiner's facility case. Consultation with attorney. 23, consider and take appropriate action for the potential purchase of real estate in central Austin. Real estate exception. 24, receive briefing and take appropriate action in entertainment by j and j ning versus routine know cor cornejo and lukemer certify, constable -- mercer, con strabl precinct -- constable precinct 1 et al.
>> 25, receive briefing and take appropriate action in entertainment and j and j inc. Versus celia perez, veronica perez govea and luke mercer, constable precinct 1. And 26, receive briefing and take he want action on issues raised in basic development permit application of bill swin any and son dau trust. That's the consultation with attorney. And also, I think we'll be able to take these up this morning. And the way we're moving, probably at around 10 or --
>> 11?
>> well, five or 10 minutes until 11:00 o'clock.
we have returned from executive session where we discussed the items that we announced. Let's announce the county staff specifically mr. Davis that we do plan to take the corporations before we break for lunch today. And try to finish our complete agenda without having to come back this afternoon. Let's call up number 26, we do have mr. Sweeney here. And others. 26 is to receive briefing and take appropriate action on issues raised in basic development permit application of bill sweeney and sun dial trust and what I did on Friday, mr. Sweeney, if you would have a seat there, that would be fine. On Friday I did reduce to writing some of the concerns that mr. Sweeney discussed with me. And we may as well start by giving the -- the county's interpretation of paragraph number 7. In the basic development permit application. Specifically the implication in that language that we would issue the permit based on certain representations made by the applicant and then after issuing the permit, basically see if the applicant comply was the commitments made. With the commitments made. Tom?
>> judge, that language in the permit is intended to establish enforcability and by that I mean it's intended to be an acknowledgment by the permittee that he will conform to and perform whatever terms are contained in that permit. In this case the county has not yet decided what the terms of that permit should be. And if I understand it from talking with the t.n.r. Staff, the main issue is the material that has been submitted as part of the permit application is not adequate enough or detailed enough or does not contain sufficient information for t.n.r. To make the kind of best professional judgments they have to make as to what certain terms of that permit ought to be. For example, dealing with access to roads or impacts on county roads or drainage issues or on site sewage issues.
>> what's your response to representations made by staff that -- that responses to a certain application would be made within a certain time? What's the importance of us missing that time?
>> those are really performance standards that -- if staff does not meet that deadline, it does not entitle the applicant to the permit, it does not mean that the permit is automatically granted. It is basically just a performance standard for the staff.
>> okay. Those are just the county's perspective basically. I don't know that us discussing those today are going to help any. There are specific things that I think we do need to discuss and as we look at -- as we look at our review process in the future, we would certainly look at that, try to figure out whether we need to revise it or not. There was a question raised as to the txdot driveway that is near the applicant's site. And we did get a written communication that I shared with ms. Sheffield from mr. Swinney regarding the state highway and the state driveway.
>> yes, yes. We did receive, stacy sheffield, t.n.r. We did receive a permit of the driveway permit from txdot. Basically staff's question on that was that permitted for concrete trucks for this type of operation. We do have a call in to txdot to try to find that out. We have not heard back from them yet. But we have only had this morning to call that in.
>> so mr. Swinney, what you submitted may be all right. It depends on txdot's response. If they are informed, we think their letter is fine with us?
>> absolutely.
>> yes, sir.
>> may I approach the court with some documents?
>> yes, sir. If you have give all of them to judge -- to Commissioner Davis there, he will send them on down.
>> take the whole stack. There you go.
>> thank you. That's what I sent ms. Sheffield, right? That's just to let ms. Sheffield think there are ample copies there for her to get another one. One more back down this way. Is there one more left? Okay. I didn't take one, did i? I got one --
>> is it my turn, sir?
>> yes, sir.
>> now we are talking about the txdot driveway and the state highway. Can we talk about those two, state versus Travis County. Yes, sir.
>> could I speak about that in just a moment?
>> I tell you what, what if we speak about that right now. The last thing we will let you do today is say anything that you want to regarding this site, whether we bring it up as an issue or not. How is that? Now, what -- what ms. Sheffield is saying, though, we got a telephone call in to the state. If they say they issued this permit, knowing the type of project that you have in mind, then this is fine with us. Am I -- that's correct?
>> that's absolutely correct. There's still some issues on the county road that's there. We feel that it nay need to be abandoned in order for -- for the driveway to cross it to get to state highway 71. The county would support such an abandonment, t.n.r. Would.
>> yes, sir?
>> here is txdot's own manual. For state highways. Within this booklet there is not one word about how is this driveway going to be used. When they permit a driveway, it's presumed to accommodate heavy traffic, otherwise it would not be issued on a state highway. So they do not say, well, this driveway is only good to haul chickens over or feathers. It's good for anything. That's our position.
>> okay.
>> that this -- that this permit that I received in 1999 is -- is still there, there's been -- it's been accommodating concrete trucks, all kinds of machinery hauled over it, there have been no collapse, no sign of failure. So I think that is a point that -- that t.n.r. Can stand on very firmly is that this -- this driveway access won't accommodate concrete trucks.
>> mr. Swinney?
>> yes, sir.
>> the letter you got from gary morris at the state, the one who signed this permit that you just showed us.
>> yes, sir.
>> if he says I knew that mr. Swinney had in mind a concrete batch plant, ms. Sheffield is saying this letter would be fine with us and we will take the txdot driveway off the table.
>> okay.
>> how is that? Now, there is another little matter, though, your position is I will not need to use the county road. Therefore it's none of the county's business. Right?
>> yes, sir.
>> and our position is okay why don't we, since you are the only one that uses that road and it's on your property anyway, why don't you support a county vacation of the county road, so it's no longer a county road? How is that? Then the property is just yours.
>> yes, sir, I?ll support that.
>> all right.
>> may I say one other thing.
>> yes, sir.
>> a couple of other things. Stacy and I have gotten along just fine. I don't know -- it's not enough. I don't know what the court is paying her, it's not enough.
>> I?m glad he heard you.
>> she has to deal with this. She has to deal with tclack, the only train wreck crew, tnrcc, he has to know this book, she has to know fema's book, she has to be an engineer, a survaifer, a psychologist, the psychiatrist, the hand holder, a regulator, she has to do a lot of stuff. And I don't envy her, I don't envy this court's job upholding all of this stuff, see. In addition to that, let me show you something. One other thing here. Anyway, it prepared by the attorney general's office, it comes out after every legislative session, comes to you, judge, and it updates you on all of the new rules that you people have to enforce. I don't envy you for having to keep up with all of that baloney. In this -- when this country was started this little book right here was all of the rules that we needed. You have seen that I?m sure.
>> okay.
>> now we have tons and tons s of it and I think there's something wrong with the system when I?ve been in t.n.r. Permitting section, there's a woman there with a child on this arm clutching cash money, on this arm she has another child and this child is holding the hand of a smaller one, is in there to get a permit, for an on site sewage treatment system, she was denied the permit because she does not have a legal lot.
>> now, our media folks --
>> I?m acquainted --
>> we will need you to sit down and speak into that mic there.
>> I?m sorry.
>> that's all right.
>> that way our media people won't get on us.
>> so something wrong with the system when we can't accommodate people's needs without going through some book that says we can't serve their needs. And believe me, if you look closely enough, in all of these books, you will find some place that will say you can't do it. No matter what it is that you want to do. We applied for a simple basic permit, who -- to install upon this property the portable concrete batch plant. My client, customer, tenant, will be the young lady named ana rodriguez. Came to this country 15 years ago, did not know the language, did not have a cent in her pocket, has built a million dollar business. She wants to expand her business to accommodate the needs of concrete on the new highway 130. And of course I as the property owner, brenda, with our son dau trust want to accommodate her with a piece of land. We just need a simple permit.
>> well, that's -- [multiple voices] okay, let's find out exactly what else we need to do to get that simple permit for you, okay? Now, there are some issues regarding the septic system. And what are they?
>> I --
>> here's what we need to know about the septic system.
>> again, stacy sheffield, t.n.r. We do not have record of that system. At least at that address.
>> stacy, it was installed possibly 20 years ago. It has not failed we used it with several people in our offices for several years. My -- I believe it's your policy, I believe it's bob turner's policy, if it's not failing, you don't try to fix it.
>> that's correct. That is our policy. We don't fix what's not broken [multiple voices] however, there may be additional employees with the batch plant. The system may not be sized for those additional employees and I would need you to address that.
>>
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>>
>> ...you can move it in two days. It has three employees on site.
>> I think a statement to that fact would help me out greatly in clearing that comment.
>> I don't think we're asking for anything that we've not asked of other people putting in the exact same kind of facility in Travis County. In fact, I?m remembering something in the last couple of years over by starflight, and we had legitimate questions that needed to be asked about where's this going to be located, have you gone through the tceq process, you're in the city of Austin e.t.j., what's going to be the access on the Travis County road. So we're not asking any question that is not asked of anybody else trying to do the exact same kind of project elsewhere in Travis County.
>> in that exhibit I gave to you we've addressed most of those things we talked about. We've been to the city and the watershed protection department, they have -- there's a copy of their letter that they acknowledge that it's a legal lot. The engineers that I?ve hired, two very respected engineers in Travis County, have submitted to the city the necessary documents. They've passed muster on it. They say go get your county permit, we're okay with it. They said go get your city permit. So which comes first?
>> it's a joint review.
>> this was done the 30th of last year, the application was made.
>> and it's all based on having a completed application. I mean, I took a look at what originally turned in, and I can understand why they would be some confusion as to what being planned. None of it was drawn to scale. It seemed to be kind of something you would put on a cocktail napkin. I don't mean that to sound rude, but it just was not something that you basically say this is what is intended to happen in terms of having to have something drawn to scale and to show it. There's a question about are you building something new in terms of an office or are you renovating something old? Because that would answer the question about whether some new rules kick in or whether there is a change in use that is so drastic that you have to update and go by the new rules or it's grandfathered in and it's just considered a change in use of an existing facility. We've got to have information so our professional staff can make a professional judgment. And the quicker we can get the answers to these things --
>> well, it depends on how many hoops I have to jump through.
>> as many are necessary to answer our questions.
>> mr. Swinney, our goal today is to try to simplify this for you. He's saying for the septic system we need some indication in writing of the number of employees expected to use it. And you have just said three employees. And you want that in writing basically.
>> yes. We need that for our files.
>> and the number of drivers because that would be relevant too.
>> do you need the number of drivers?
>> yes. We size our systems by gallons per day, so the amount of people that would use the facilities is very important to know.
>> okay. The question here is what size does a system need to be? Once we make that determination we can really figure out whether the one there right now is sufficient or whether it needs to be modified in some regard.
>> I?m sure mr. Swinney can provide some basic information as to tank size and approximate field size of the existing system on his property.
>> you need that too?
>> yes.
>> you need that in writing?
>> in our business, without digging up everything, stacy, we can't tell you exactly what's there. All we know is it has not failed so far. And I?ll be glad to run a can without tearing up the whole area to make that determination for you and give you something in writing.
>> mr. Swinney --
>> I?m a licensed installer, my company's a licensed tceq, we know something about it.
>> I too hold an on-site sewage license. When was the last time you had it pumped? Usually the pump providers would know what size tank.
>> the system, if it is installed properly, the bacteria will consume the solid matter that is (indiscernible), as long as the occupant does not throw into the system substances that are not consumable, it never needs pumping. That's just the way it is.
>> number of employees, tank size. What's the other question?
>> field size.
>> and the field size. Give us that information as best you can in writing.
>> all right, sir.
>> how's that? Now, we have not received from those engineers a completed, professionally prepared set of plans is what staff is saying. And the plans that we have, the last submission, staff says, generates a whole lot of questions. So we're trying to get those questions answered. Right?
>> that's correct.
>> now, as to commercial structures, the Travis County fire marshal needs to sign off on it. He's going to want to know whether there are new structures out there or whether the existing ones are the ones being used. Now, we did see what you sent to the bastrop fire marshal. That's what you sent to unconscious, right?
>> no, sir. I sent that to Travis County fire marshal's office, to herschel lend, who is deputy fire chief. I talked with him on the telephone, explained to him what we were planning on doing. I sent to him a document showing what our plans are, and he says, bill, I don't have any problem with it. I?ll get something out to you as soon as the holidays are finished, which will probably be this one, accepting the conditions that you tell me without you're having to come get a permit because you tell me that there's nothing there in the way of a habitable building that's buildable. And that's the way it is.
>> we did receive information on Friday that mr. Swinney would be using existing office space. If it's existing and they are not making any kind of structural changes to that space, then we will take the fire marshal comment off of our comments. That one would be cleared.
>> it's been resolved. We're making progress, mr. Swinney. Now,, what else do -- what else do we need to cover?
>> that's what I want to know.
>> well, you agreed to a vacation, and, joe, is an application to vacant required?
>> yes.
>> who needs to sign that?
>> mr. Swinney would provide us with information -- mr. Swinney typically would provide us with an application saying he wants to vacate and there would be field notes as to what he wants to vacate. He would get us a survey of the part that he wants to vacate.
>> what what is the fee for that?
>> the fee for a vacation or an abandonment in this case is $680.
>> unless the court want to wave that fee. Waive that fee.
>> we can put that on the agenda with the abandonment.
>> the fee is paid up front, isn't it?
>> if mr. Swinney requests the court consider the fee schedule, we can put them on with an abandonment, so we can consider both options.
>> with that said, though, you're going to have to come forward with the appropriate legal documents and the appropriate field notes, etcetera, and that is something you will have to prepare in terms of a legal description of the abandonment piece.
>> just give us the information and we'll try to waive the fee.
>> we don't know what we're -- we know what we're abandoning, so I can provide that.
>> we're trying to get the county out of the picture here so it won't be an issue for us.
>> so we've got the road --
>> we've got to chat with txdot about the driveway. Could leave the driveway out also. We've heard from the fire marshal about the structures. We've taken that off the plate as an issue. And --
>> and the engineer needs to prepare a better set of site plans.
>> that's correct.
>> he has a better set. He's been off in colorado skiing. Left me without any help.
>> we'll put this in writing and get it to you, mr. Swinney, so we don't have to sit here and remember what all things were said.
>> do we have issues with the traffic impact if we vacant the county --
>> if a right-of-way is vacated or a abandoned and txdot is okay with the concrete trucks going over the septic, we will take that off the plate as well. It is not important. We would also like mr. Swinney to build some sort of barrier to prevent those trucks from using old bastrop highway.
>> if we vacate old bastrop highway, do we care?
>> yes, because we will not vacate the entire portion, just the portion in front of mr. Swinney's property. Old bastrop highway will still exist.
>> is that okay?
>> can I put some (indiscernible) so the trucks can't go through?
>> your site plan should indicate.
>> that's pretty much covered it.
>> you are mrs. Swinney?
>> brenda swinney. I just wanted to ask what it meant by vacating. We have a gate there that we keep locked except during the day. Does that mean that gate could stay locked forever. Vacating it, we could never use it to go out of that premises, period. Is that what that means?
>> yes. But I would ask that you do something more than a gate to prevent the concrete trucks from using old bastrop highway.
>> you would basically be giving up your bastrop rights to old bastrop. And to your -- access rights to old bastrop. Bastrop: and whatever physical barrier is there probably needs to meet the requirements of the uniform and manual traffic devices.
>> the school bus probably will not be happy with that.
>> we would only be talking about abandoning a portion of the right-of-way that is fronting your property on both sides.
>> well, I understand that.
>> see, our tract wraps around old bastrop on two sides, on the south side and on the west end and it extends up old bastrop road where there's some tracts that were developed back in the 1970's that front the old bastrop road that we still own. So that access can't be -- as a practical matter cannot be blocked off.
>> I understand. We will show you where we were thinking the abandonment could happen.
>> we can work this out. If we run into unexpected difficulties, we will just have to deal with them. We hope we don't, though, but others need to be accommodated. In fact, before we vacate, wouldn't we get feedback from the isd that uses the road? Typically we do.
>> from the utility providers.
>> and often they're not involved, but we normally give them a heads up so if they have an interest, they let us know what ttion and we try to work with that.
>> actually, mr. Swinney would be doing that.
>> so I have a lot of work to do. The court is not going to vote on this today?
>> no.
>> well, we're giving directions to try to get this done. Now, some of this has to be brought back to us, like waiving the fee needs to be done. Ms. Sheffield is a whole lot of power herself.
>> I know.
>> not fee waiving authority, though.
>> we she has the power of all these books.
>> but on all this other stuff, working with her and reaching some sort of agreement is critical. The stuff like waiving the fee, the vacation, the Commissioners court has to formally approve those, so there will be a formal record made of it. What other issues do we have today?
>> I believe that's it.
>> y'all may be our first success project in 2006.
>> could I mention something else?
>> yes, sir.
>> and this is something stacy can't control because somewhere in one of these books it exists. We have a person -- we have septic systems installed, we do financing under appropriate conditions. Well, this person is working real hard all of his life and bought a little piece of land that is in a subdivision, an approved subdivision that's several acres of land, and -- although it is in the floodplain. When stacy has someone come in to apply for a development permit, if any part of this land is in the floodplain, even though it's not where they're going to build the house. Where they're going to build the house is four feet out of the floodplain, but part of it is in the floodplain. So stacy, her office, forces these people and this poor guy, $1,500 to a registered professional engineer to make a determination that where the man is building the house is out of the floodplain. Then he has to hire a surveyor to corroborate the fact that it has a mean sea level that is above the floodplain. The man has spent $2,500. He still has no permit. A man named pena. Bob kramer's office issued a septic system from it, but no development permit.
>> this is not before us.
>> and on your -- on the on site sewage treatment permit it states the development permit and the on site sewage treatment permit have to be displayed on the site before construction can begin on the on site sewage treatment system. So the man is hung up. He doesn't have a -- he has a septic permit. He spent $1,500, plus $2,500 for tnr for permits and he still can't do anything. Something is wrong with the system, judge.
>> mr. Swinney, can you get me an address of that property? I?ll see if I can take care of that.
>> if necessary, we'll put that on the court's agenda and try to work with it.
>> I think the poor man needs some attention.
>> we'll give him some. We'll give him his own agenda item if ms. Sheffield cannot work it out. We'll work through it. Any other issues regarding your application.
>> I?m continued, sir.
>> mr. Swinney, we've made a lot of progress today. I appreciate you coming out and I appreciate your patience.
>> I appreciate your kind attention to our problem, and I hope we can get it worked out.
>> I feel good about the progress we made today.
>> thank you.
>> do we need a motion on that? We gave directions and I think everything is fine.
>> yes.
>> 21 is a matter involving those two employees, and I move that we authorize leave with pay through January 6th of 2006 to give staff an opportunity to resolve outstanding issues.
>> second.
>> discussion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, January 4, 2006 10:36 AM