Travis County Commissioners Court
October 25, 2005
Item 9
9. Consider and take appropriate action on phase 2 options for the 5501 airport blvd building:
>> alicia perez, as it is said on here to discuss the future of 5501 airport. [indiscernible] the building was purchased may, since then we have moved in the September of '03 we moved into the tax office. The county clerk elections, county clerk reporting, accounting, and administration also occupied that building. In January of this year, the print shop and imaging shop with -- went in there. Today we will be discussing the -- the availability -- right now it would be -- would be about 20,000 square feet and with the second floor you are talking at about 40,000 square feet. And what we put in that space, how we build it out, we do have -- we do have currently a budget of about 1.7 million left in the -- in the budget from the rest of the renovations and construction that we have there. The building is located at 5501 airport. It has been very well received by the community, it was part of the efforts of the court to take out, to take county government from the central downtown business area into the particular neighborhoods to make it closer and more accessible to the community. I知 going to go ahead and turn it over to roger el khoury the director of facilities management to go over the options with you.
>> before you do that, can we kind of follow up on what you just said? That we wanted to move governmental operations from downtown to that site. How many of these fit that definition?
>> the tax office, if you recall, the tax office was right here across the street.
>> right.
>> that has moved out there.
>> right.
>> and very widely used by people, not only paying their taxes but a lot of their car registrations. The county clerk's elections, that was a new elections system that was purchased by the Commissioners court. And that is where -- that is where the judges go and pick up all of their ballots and where the new equipment is utilized at that particular office. Before that, that was also being run -- excuse me, being run from downtown, also. And on 9th street. County clerk recording, accounting, administration, again all of those functions were right out of the historical courthouse, where parking was very, very difficult here. Now it is -- now it is much easier for -- for citizens to go in and -- and get their business done in parking. The print shop and imaging was also in the downtown area. Guadalupe street, in front of the historical courthouse, that has moved out and provided constable 5 with additional expansion space. But all of these now provide better parking and more accessibility to a broader citizenry.
>> so if you follow that pattern, then what else is eligible to move from downtown over there.
>> if we look at the options and to just quickly answer your question, cjp, e.m.s. And facilities I知 sorry, fire marshals are still in the downtown area. On 9th street.
>> [indiscernible] when we originally did this, there was still talk about a separate plan, potential, better way to say, that the separate potential if a government campus. There would be airport boulevard and then there was the potential of another government campus to move even more in terms of getting other functions outs of downtown. Where are we there? Because I think part of the -- of the strategic dilemma that we are in right now is that we also have to kind of true up what I think is a government campus that is no longer going to be someplace else and the government campus might be this and we need to kind of blend in what were the thoughts and hopes and prayers on the government campus. Overlay them in terms of good planning strategies and what was in the government campus and what was not in the government campus in terms of being on the airport boulevard stretch.
>> without getting into too much conversation, about your executive session items, if -- if the original discussions of this property, you had -- you had two discussions about whether or not -- you have a memo from p.b.o. That goes back to -- it's February. May of '05. That talks about whether or not you are going to retain this property and -- in the long term. If you were to develop a government campus at a different site, what you might be able to potentially use this property for, whether or not you wanted to move the tax office and elections back into a general government campus at a different site. All of the tenants that you have listed here, other than ces, are -- are tenants that would be in that general -- general government complex mix. Again, you are tagged for that complex for anything that were -- that were considered general government or administrative type functions, those things that were court-related, were either -- either through referrals or direct services to the civil and criminal courts, were viewed as candidates to retain your assets downtown. And so that you would be migrating multiple people out of the downtown into a general government campus. If you look at -- if you look at potential development, further development of this site or redevelopment of this site, again, all of the tenants are listed here other than ces are candidates for that general government site. Your other tenants would be -- would be or candidate tenants would be transportation and natural resources, Commissioners court functions, financial functions, hhs functions. We are all -- were all deemed as being -- as being alike in the types of various traffic that you brought to the site. They were all general office. They were all generally speaking 8:00 to 5:00 functions with some -- sometimes having extended hours, but basically an 8:00 to 5:00 office complex is what you are talking about.
>> just to kind of [indiscernible] what we are talking about all of these different moves happening, we did not know at the time, nor did we contemplate that legal aid would be moving out of post road and therefore we would have more county-owned space open up to -- to put departments that may also be in the leased space downtown at the post road site as compared -- that just simply wasn't another option that was out there, was it?
>> that's correct. I mean, real estate is all -- you know, it's a moving factor of time, as time changed your opportunities have changed and legal aid has moved out of our building is one of those that we do need to look at a tenant, I知 sure roger is working on it, to reoccupy that space that will be -- that would be vacated. So you do have potentially more square footage on the table now than you did before. Also at the time that you were originally looking at acquiring this property, our understanding was that we would actually have more square footage available than we had anchor tenants for or administrative type functions that needed space. That's why ces was introduced into the conversation. Not as -- not as a long-term user of the site and that's been several years now, needs have changed, square footage has changed, spaces have been built out. So when you -- when we originally looked at the proposal was in 2003. So we -- we kind of have to absorb some of the changes and opportunities that have presented themselves over the last several years. When discussing phase 2.
>> but in 2003, at the time that we acquired this property, we had departments listed that would go there.
>> yes, we did.
>> so what departments are they? Let's go ahead and get those out? The other thing is what we selected these dements departments we had more in mind than moving the departments from downtown. Money mattered. We did a financial model and we had a financial strategy. And the departments that ended up on airport were part of that financial strategy. Because we moved domestic relations from fifth street from rental space to county-owned property across the street.
>> that's correct.
>> so what departments in may of '05 when we made this major financial investment, what departments did we designate to move out there? And really talked with the department heads and got them to agree. Let's get them on the table.
>> that was on February 14th, 2003, and the department election of 9th street, delivered from the lease coast, jps, e.m.s., 9th street. Cs at 9th street, cs at 4920 i-35, dro at fifth street where tax office move thed to the facility, all a function of the election, and recorded and accounted for -- for the county clerk.
>> okay. County clerk, tax assessor, jps, what else?
>> e.m.s.
>> e.m.s.
>> fire marshal.
>> fire marshal.
>> tax office. Ces, they were at 9th street. Also the cs at 4920 i-35. Which is the [indiscernible]
>> okay, now what about the financial model? What was that?
>> I知 looking at the financial model right here. It's about the pay back point was at that time. The pay back point is 2014 or 11 years from 2003.
>> what is it today?
>> today? Today it's -- I have another model run by p.b.o., I guess on this. Now based on so many other factors, the pay-back point is 2019 or 16 years from today. From -- from the --
>> may.
>> from may. May '03. May '03.
>> that's also an old model, so it's going to be a little bit beyond that still.
>> the point is when we made this decision in '03, we said if we make these moves and realize these financial savings, we will have the airport property paid for in February of 2014.
>> that's correct.
>> but today based on the move we have made so far, we will pay for that property when?
>> according to this, it's --
>> beyond the --
>> 20 -- it's again it's 2019. I mean 2019.
>> so we lost five years somewhere. So my last question then, Commissioner Gomez you -- you have a question?
>> no, just a follow-up comment.
>> okay. My last question then is the reason I recall ces is that there was a big number. And that number in '03 was how much rent?
>> it's about 272,000. 272,000 per year.
>> annually.
>> annually, yes.
>> by moving ces from rental space over to airport.
>> that's right.
>> okay.
>> which is right now it's about 300,000.
>> uh-huh.
>> I guess alicia, moving the apartments from downtown, while it's important, but we knew that ces owned 35 near 51 was not downtown, but the strategy was to move them over there, too. We thought it would be a better location for them and we could save $279,000 in rent annually.
>> it was twofold, you are correct, judge. To get the services out to the community and also to realize savings because another piece of -- of -- a large piece of savings was when you moved the tax office out of downtown, you were able to move dro into the building across the street. That was $684,000 a year.
>> we did that.
>> substantial, yes.
>> right. Yes.
>> and it -- I mean, there was nothing wrong with the 2003 strategy. There's been a problem with execution. And the biggest piece of that is ces, basically bought the lease space on -- at the current location because legal services bought it and us deciding whether you go over on airport, to other rental space. The problem is this will my last point about ces, if we do not move it to airport, we not only do not realize $279,000 of savings, but we pick up an additional lease cost of roughly 225,000 based on the presentation that we got last year, that's an annual half million dollars hit, roughly. I知 just saying we ought not absorb that. We ought not take that. Especially since we have options that are better.
>> could I ask one more question? Because in terms of the strategy, let's remember the complete strategy when we started this endeavor, one of the reasons that we wanted to get people out of lease space is that it had reached a percentage in terms of -- that ought to call it to your attention of hum would we be better off with owned space. We started out having leased cost, lease costs of $3.2 million. Annually. And because of the strategy that the judge just talked about, in terms of making good progress, we are now under $800,000 annually on leased space. That is tremendous progress. Now, it's a legitimate question in terms of how can we continue to make good progress. The point I知 trying to make is we have another opportunity related to some lease savings if we get the 4 d masters and the tax court out of the leased space in the 9th street location, with what's going on down at post road, that the anticipated savings that we could have gotten with ces, I am arguing that we can swap out a different set of lease savings to continue to make good progress on bringing those numbers down. But to be from 3.2 million in terms of annual leased cost down to under 800,000, we have made tremendous progress, I知 just saying we have another opportunity and I guess what I知 more concerned about is that so what about ces? To be in the airport location, it will take approximately one year to ready that property for ces. It is un--
>> is that how long it will take?
>> until December, December of 2006.
>> right. I just have tremendous issues with having our ces folks who are in space now that is too small, they are in a construction zone because their landlords are also taking over that building and doing things that are necessary for them, but these folks that need immediate relief now related to space and other kinds of issues, they would have to wait a complete year before they get any kind of relief and to be in a construction zone. If we go to that other lease that is proposed, they can be someplace else in a couple of months, which is good for them, they can move on with their lives, I would propose that we can substitute out their lease savings with getting the 4 d and tax masters out of downtown and into post road and swap out for the anticipated savings so that we get to that good place, but we just do it with a different tenant and that leaves open airport boulevard for more flexible options related to not just that building, but potentially other things that are -- that are in play in the neighborhood.
>> okay.
>> being --
>> two questions, two questions. One is whether in fact we are now spending $800,000 on lease space whereas in may of '03 we were spending 3.2 million.
>> we have -- we have --
>> on 7.
>> right. We are right now, including parking leases, we are budgeted at just under 1.7 million for leases.
>> that's a little more than 800,000. Let me finish, let me finish asking my questions, I listened patiently when you were talking.
>> sorry, judge.
>> we are now at 1.7 million. We cannot overlook the fact that when we acquired the property on airport we spent millions of dollars. In fact we spent a total of how much?
>> okay. We --
>> on the purchase? Is that what you are asking?
>> the purchase and renovation.
>> about 7.7 million.
>> purchase and renovation.
>> 4.2 in purchase and then I致e got about 3.4 in -- roger is showing me additional which I知 sorry, let me correct that. It's 8.7 as opposed to 7.7.
>> 8.7, of which we still have a 1.7 million that roger talked about up front.
>> that's correct.
>> okay. So our strategy in reducing the amount that we pay annually for rent at a good -- had a good side in that we at least don't pay rent forever. The bad side, so, is that we have to have a cash infusion to purchase, to be in a county-owned position. Right? So we have spent millions of dollars to acquire property that we could own thinking long term financially that makes better sense to control the future. Money is important, I知 happy as anybody that instead of spending 3 tonight 2 to rent, we now spend 1.7. That's a big number. But I have to remain mindful that we have spent millions of dollars to acquire facilities that are now county-owned. That's important. Commissioner Gomez we cut you off?
>> that's okay. That county property is of course off of the tax rolls, more exempt property, Commissioner Daugherty. And then on top of that, I don't know that on the original list, we have how many employees or how many people are affected by moving moving them to that area. We don't have the number of cars and car -- it takes more space to accommodate cars than it does to accommodate employees. To deliver the services. I think that's what kind of getting us, if I知 recalling all of our conversations, why we have gone round and round and round with this issue is that we can't accommodate the cars. So -- so that -- that's another column that probably needs to be put on here.
>> parking is what you have in mind.
>> how do we deal with parking.
>> tell us about that.
>> parking situation. Right now, we have 354 parking spaces available for parking for employee and visitors. The existing employee right now at the airport boulevard building we have 106 employee for the tax office, approximate plus or minus two or three we have -- we have for the print shop and imaging 15 f.t.e. And 55 -- or 57 f.t.e. For the county clerk. If you add all of these together, that would become about like 180 plus or minus. Right now existing at the airport boulevard. So 354 minus 180, that's how much left of parking space in there. Depends on what option we are going to go forward on that, that would reduce the number of visitors to accommodate some employees, which is ces, they have 25 employees. The -- the fire marshal five, probably a little bit more, a couple more. Cjp, which is an e.m.s., about -- both of them about 17. So really the total as we see it after -- after everything goes, option number 1 goes, it's 231 parking space for employees and 354, so the difference would be about 103 -- I知 sorry, 123 parking space for visitors left at the -- at the airport boulevard.
>> now, would that also -- looking at ces, though --
>> yes.
>> that services -- those services are rendered during what hours -- let me -- let me ask you this question, what hours do they operate on whereby parking would be available for their services --
>> I would let [indiscernible] talk about the hours of operation [multiple voices]
>> hours of operation because parking, you know, everybody is not going to come out there at the same time. So give me some hours of operation on that.
>> yes. I知 carol coal burn, ces director, the hours of operation are 8:00 to 5:00, we have classes from 8:00 until noon, four days a week. And then we have -- I say 8:00 to 5:00, that's part of it, we also have classes in the evening from 6:00 to 10:00, four nights a week, as well as Saturdays from 8:00 to 4:00 in the afternoon, that's currently.
>> so if I can get a depiction of the other parking requirements, sorry, Margaret, I didn't mean to cut you off. You -- go ahead, Margaret. Just dawned on me because -- go ahead [multiple voices]
>> we are discussing parking, basically.
>> my point is the other departments that use this facility, as far as the parking is concerned, what -- what are their -- their parking operational hours? In other words, you have got certain people there at certain times of the day, you mentioned yours, but there are other departments as far as when those slots are actually necessary. For use.
>> other departments like -- like county clerk and the --
>> yeah, all of them. I mean ones being out there used. After certain hours you are going to --
>> normal operation hours 8:00 to 5:00, but they extend beyond 5:00 like for about a couple of hours.
>> and during elections, also. During elections the county clerk elections division has training, then also working with the election judges and I think that it is training --
>> what about weekends?
>> again, unless it's an election, atom not aware of any -- I知 not aware of any others.
>> a lot of freedom, just from these answers it appears that there's available parking that may be accessible for services that may be necessary for the persons that require those services. That's the way it appears to me, I may be wrong, but that's the way it appears. Anyway, go ahead, I didn't mean to cut you off, go ahead. [multiple voices]
>> the numbers seem to be 174, plus 47, right if.
>> right.
>> if we add up all of the numbers that you gave us for employees.
>> yeah.
>> that's 221.
>> that's right.
>> you are saying we have a total of 354 spaces.
>> that's right.
>> do we have the ability to lease or spill over parking as needed?
>> we have -- I知 in the process right now of -- I talked to chair king and they -- they might be able to give us about 50 parking space over there for leasing. And this is a conversation happened -- late today in the morning.
>> can we ask the question in a different way. We have accounted for our employees who are over there. Too we have any sense of counts from the tax office and the county clerk's office about how many people per hour are coming through there who would need parking for what is probably a pretty short period of time. Kind of the in and out kind of stuff. And, carol, do you know, same kind of thing, on an hourly basis, how many people are -- coming and going related to your activities. Judge, I知 going by the same numbers these folks are giving us, we have about 125 parking spaces in play between the tax office, the county clerk and now potentially ces, I -- with that being a voting location, that makes it even more stretched in terms of -- of parking being a problem, not for our own employees, they get there early. It's for our visitors and that was the point of moving to airport boulevard was to have ease of parking for our clients.
>> well, we talked -- we talked with everybody else about encouraging employees to car pool, et cetera. If your goal is to -- to promote public transportation, car pooling, et cetera, the worst thing that you can do is make sure every employee has parking. The other -- so I mean I don't know that we ought to -- that that ought to be a primary concern. If the primary concern is public parking, then we simply designate the efficient public parking for the public. Then we figure out, okay, how many parking spots we got left for employees, and then we try to come -- to accommodate as many as we can. If I have a hard time finding parking space when I come to work and one of my neighbors or somebody in my neighborhood works for the county, also, it seems to me that I would be a little bit more motivated to car pool. Capital metro, thank god, still makes those vans available pretty much free of charge. I mean, I -- sometimes I wonder why the county judge doesn't do this, but I don't have neighbors that work for the county.
>> well, I guess my sensitivity is while downtown we don't have enough parking spaces, most people are looking for other garages to go into and they pay for that, central christian has a lot of county employees that park across there. We have city streets with meters, we have places where you can park down near lamar, you can park for free down there and hike it on in. We don't have permission to put our people into private spaces owned by other shopping centers just because we feel like spilling it over. You would have to have permission, you would have to pay for that permission.
>> you would need a contract.
>> but we're not talking only about 50 slots here judge. The reality is that if we don't have a parking accommodations, people will start parking in residential neighborhoods and we will be creating the same situation that is plaguing the university of Texas, bouldin creek and a lot of other neighborhoods --
>> what's the likelihood of that happening at this location?
>> way.
>> how do you access the nearest neighborhood from this location.
>> you walk.
>> you climb the back fence.
>> no, there's no the a back fence.
>> to the rear of our property.
>> yeah, there is, there is a fence all the way back.
>> it's not fenced all the way around. You can cut through the chair king alley.
>> climbing the back fence, I know there's one, unless it's been taken down.
>> no. It's not.
>> I mean, you can cut down chair king alley.
>> a whole lot of places you may park in the adjacent neighborhood. You would have to park so far away here you would have to take a bus to get back to us. I知 not suggesting that we just leave people stranded. I知 suggesting that we pursue other strategies that we encourage private employers to pursue weekly, if not daily. Air quality, all of those other things, the good things that we talk about doing, we ought to do some of them ourselves and maybe take the lead. At some point we have to consider that we have got 20,000 square feet of space. That we have purchased. That we purchased two and a half years ago. Right?
>> and potentially --
>> we have the option of adding 20,000 more as a second story. And so -- so the number one department in my view is ces, simply because ces's size, because of the emergency of moving them somewhere because legal aid wants its space. Right? Not tomorrow, but -- at a date certain. They are good partners, willing to work with us. But I hear -- I hear ces saying basically we need a decision, and we need relief as soon as it can be provided. If I could remind the court of some of the changes that have taken place for ces over the last couple of years. We did move the intake office from 9th street which vacated some lease space into the 1101 nueces house, that worked out fine, we love it down there, in doing so we had to move five staff members out to the service center because nueces house is not big enough to take everyone. We did it with the understanding it would be very temporary, at least six months, I think we were looking at at this time, set up in the very cramped situation out there right now. The situation was not great even before legal aid started moving in. We love legal aid, we partnered with them for year with our crime victims fund. However anyone moving into a facility is going to cause a lot of inconveniences. It has. Where we've had to give up the storage room, move all of our audio equipment and materials into -- I offered up my office because there was literally nowhere else to put this equipment. We had to go several days when we had classes without air conditioning. Currently there is -- you know, pounding, drilling, above -- above us as we are trying to teach classes, counsel clients and -- it's just -- not conducive to the services that ces provides. I have been told the construction part should be over in a month or so. However once legal aid starts moving in, if we were to stay there, they are going to move, my understanding, at least 40 people and they could move up to 60 and I just do not see how the parking is going to bear it there. It is very crowded, our -- without additional classes now which are 40 people. In a nutshell, changes may have taken place, that really have emphasized how we need to move very quickly. It is just not working. Really the bottom line of this if we do not have more space, more classrooms we are not going to be able to provide our classes, it's going to affect our revenue. We have done very well, this past year we were able to increase our alcohol drug classes by almost $200,000. We did find, but we feel like that is -- that's going to be tap capped. To be capped. If we cannot move somewhere, we are going to get an additional 3 classrooms in the lease space that we have planned out. Or at airport. But taking a whole year, I just -- that just sounds intolerable to me for ces to stay at 4920 for one year.
>> why would it take a whole year to renovate airport for ces.
>> we have to redesign granted that we are not going to go to square zero, we have a plan, take construct to second floor, electrical, usual -- usual construction activity, judge. So it's going to take about a year. Could you just remind us, roger, about this particular section. I think we are a little spoiled because the original section that the county clerk and tax office went into was the old store. This is not that same kind of condition. This is a metal addition to the building where they used to store the lumber. This was not what was the old -- the old store piece of it. So there's just a little bit more to it than simply we need to put up some walls and run electricity out there.
>> this is -- this is -- it has more electrical works. And air conditioning and plumbing. But it is a duration of one year of design and construction to move in.
>> if we were able to get you additional classroom space, immediately, to use on a temporary basis, how much would that help? Let's say one year bridge, for your new space on airport.
>> it's hard to say. I think it might kind of be a wash considering the additional resources we would probably need to provide classes off-site. We would probably have to have at least another half time person to do that, would be transporting materials. I mean, it may help some with revenue because we could have other classes, but just the inconvenience and additional workload, it would put on my staff, you know, would not -- would not be optimum.
>> what if you -- what if you just went to other county-owned space for these --
>> [indiscernible] we don't have anything, judge.
>> we do, Commissioner Sonleitner.
>> where? Where do we have classroom space.
>> post road.
>> that's nowhere near in terms of the service area.
>> I didn't say it would be next door. I said it would be in Travis County.
>> well --
>> if the other four members of the Commissioners court were to tell me, judge I want you to start reporting to another location. I would ask when. I would ask will my office be the same size it is right now, I would go there. Let's let you go through the other options, roger. There may be little gems hidden in these option that's we don't know about.
>> judge, I just need to ask something.
>> go ahead.
>> could you possibly tell me, I know you mentioned the hours of operation, 8:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday, you mentioned Saturday, you mentioned evening classes, I will try to get an idea of those type of -- of tour of service that you render, what -- what is the most I guess where do you have the most participation from those persons that are needing those services? What is it -- you know, in the evening hours or is it in the -- on the weekends or -- is it the morning hours from 8:00 -- where you need -- you seem to see a trend of persons coming in for your services?
>> it's meeting the community's needs, mainly evenings and Saturdays.
>> that's where you have your most activity.
>> right.
>> okay. That's the point that I was trying to bring up earlier. In other words if it's just evening and Saturdays, then the parking situations may not be as significant at the airport site because I think those other operations that are there now currently do not -- do not need excess parking because they are shut down for the day. That's why I brought that point up wanting to know exactly what your hours of operation, as far as where you got your most activity.
>> we have looked at the revenue created by the morning classes. For general fund $100,000 and for fund 017, the crime victims fund, it's $174,000. There's just more morning classes. That's, we would be affected in that way if we didn't have them at all.
>> right, exactly.
>> what kinds of classes do you have?
>> we have the dwi class in the morning, the bad check class in the morning, I will have to go to theresa goff my program manager.
>> do you have those by -- by zip code? One of the things that we could possibly do is why do you have to be centralized if the -- if the people that you give the service to are in different quadrants of this county? Kind of like the tax office. We had a little -- you know, one in every precinct, wherever the clients are, so that, you know, basically you are not -- they are not coming to you, you are going to them. And maybe that would work a little better.
>> we had looked at that a while back, we did a zip code study when all of this first came up over two years ago. Basically, our clientele, it's pretty much the zip codes right up and down the i-35 corridor. I think we were 3% more in south Austin than north Austin, but it was very even. Like I was saying before, providing these services on the magnitude that we do, it's a lot of classes, it's a lot of people. It is a lot easier and more cost effective I think to be in one spot, just to do it. So -- so the decision was a central location where we would equally serve everyone that -- that needs our services.
>> so that makes it precinct 1 and -- [indiscernible]
>> where we would be --
>> the clientele --
>> we really said anywhere up and down the i-35 corridor. So -- so I guess probably that would end up being that.
>> dwi, bad check.
>> we also do our second offender dwi intervention program and then we do an education advance group, which is alcohol and drug. I would like to make one comment. When we -- when we moved the five staff from the nueces location --
>> your name again.
>> theresa goff, the program manager at service center. We had a tremendous no-show rate of 23% for alcohol and drug assessments and since we moved those five staff out to the service center, our no-show rate has dropped to 12%. Which, you know, clients, you know, have made the comment that parking is easily actable and because it's easy to access from i-35. And of course you have the but route, which is another major factor, we do have a large majority of our clients that take taxi, do the bus thing. But you know we do have clients coming in and out, you know, all throughout the day from 8:00 a.m. To 10:00 p.m. And, you know, we have our early morning clients come in and our late evenings, that's where the bulk of our business is.
>> what percent early morning, what percent late evening, what percent Saturday.
>> well, the Saturday is -- is mainly classes. It's not the case management part of the alcohol and drug. We probably have a 25, 30% in the morning and then, of course, 50 to 70% or 50% at night. You know, from 4:00 to 10:00.
>> > one of the technical questions, right now we are paying roger, 300,000 for the -- for the 4920 location. That's --
>> yes. A little bit less.
>> the proposed lease, which would give us more space, is going to cost how much?
>> 200 -- it is $224,000 but the original lease right now I believe is 280. Right now. It's about 280. With the -- with the -- that place you know that we are working on is 224.
>> okay. So there could be a lease savings just attached from going to -- from one lease location to another, but here's where I知 going --
>> just to give you the correct information, plus there's about 240,000 of a tenant improvement that we need to renovate the space for the new lease.
>> okay. If the 4 d masters are located in leased space in 9th street, that's correct?
>> that's correct.
>> what is the annual cost of --
>> 179.
>> 179,000. So if -- if we can get those folks which we have never anticipated from leased space into county owned space, meaning post road, we would have $179,000 worth of savings attached to a 50 to $75,000 change in just going from one location on ces to a different location and all of a sudden we are making up some good numbers. I will grant you they are not as much, but there are some good numbers here of getting some immediate relief for ces, of getting them out of -- of a situation and to get some other courts out of the downtown area and into post road, which is where the old jp 4 offices used to be, it just seems like there's some tradeoffs here to get ces relocated quickly. The idea of one more year is -- I just think intolerable for them and ought not occur. We can find the lease savings someplace else with the 4 d masters going into county owned space.
>> have we chatted with 4 d masters?
>> jim, you had conversations with them?
>> they were able to move into post road?
>> yes.
>> I did talk to [indiscernible] back in may, before you turned in my budget, an fy '06 budget, she expressed her willingness to go there to post road because of the parking, a little bit more space you can stretch out and -- [indiscernible]
>> [multiple voices]
>> also we have that post road item on our -- one of the facility items on this budget to move for the master court to post road.
>> is that in the work session?
>> yes, sir.
>> can you go through these options and hit the highlights for us.
>> sure. Option -- with all of those option, six options, the four options, 1, 2, 3, 4, all of them require that constructing [indiscernible] disaster center and human resource division training space, replacing the metal roof, adding concrete topping to the first level of floor to level it out and constructing the second structure and having front awning in front of the facility. All of that with agents contingency on that, all of that would cost about $887,000. Out of the 1,725,000, what I have 837,000 to do renovation for the following: option number 1 we discussed that I believe. Option number 2 is same as option number 1, except that ces will not go to -- to airport boulevard. What that means is the -- it's going to have about 24,500 square feet, referring back to the table that you have on your backup. It's -- it's going to be 24,500 square feet, the renovation costs on that -- it's going to be -- 379,480, so I will not be needing any money in fy '06 to do renovation for option number 2. Option number 3 is moving the human services and va out of palm square to the -- the phase 2 airport. This one we have little problem with that after looking at the detail on that, that the parking situation right now kicks in. Because they have 96 employee plus their visitors, I don't think that parking space will take -- will -- available parking space will support option number 3. Option number 4 is a temporary basis option, which means that --
>> can I ask you about 3? If we were able to do 3, would we try to sell the palm school?
>> that's correct.
>> do we think that we would be able to unload it with the historical designation?
>> we --
>> I think that requires a little bit more research, sir. Yes.
>> but our goal would be to take that money and do other public good with it?
>> that is what we have discussed with the court.
>> okay.
>> judge, what is interesting about that is that we had an appraisal done a couple of years ago that gave us a number that I don't think satisfied any of us, because it was pretty questions to what we paid for it. The travis central appraisal district is now putting public properties on the t cad rolls and assigning tcad values to our land. Our land is now worth over $8 million. So yes, sir, we now have a comp from tcad that is quite different and substantial what we were doing on a separate private appraisal. Now we have good comps that have been assigned by t cad to our property at palm square and they have assigned values to palm park just north of that, but they have started helping us out with comps. To some properties that are quite interesting and entertaining. It's a good number, judge.
>> that's why roger that been receiving so many offers from buyers.
>> oh, yeah [laughter]
>> you can see the value of that being there, because it's close to the community that it serves. You can kind of see that people can even walk there to try to see if they are eligible for the different services that we provide in this area. Not only health and human services because also veterans services. So --
>> ms. Flemming you may want to get your two minutes in right here.
>> that's the big value of it.
>> you have a whole lot of public from time to time.
>> that's correct, sherri flemming executive manager of health and human services. We have, you know, there are pros and cons to this discussion certainly. I know the court is aware of what those are. We do have tremendous traffic, the palm square site, the emergency assistance site in the basement of that building is our busiest emergency assistance site in the downtown area. I have expressed to many of you my concern about moving from that area would be that some of that traffic would move to our post road site, which we have a renovated site, we have recently renovated that site. However it was not designed to take on the additional traffic that would shift to that location should the palm square site move from the downtown area. I知 sure facilities can share with you the challenges, though, of that building and -- and the tremendous repairs and -- and, you know, past problems and all of -- pest problems, all of those things that you have with an older building. We are quite torn in this discussion in terms of staying and going. But we do know that our primary client base, that it's really a beak can for them right -- beacon for them right there, we certainly wouldn't want to lose that.
>> in addition to that, the post road facility serves the deaf community. The majority of the deaf community lives in that -- around that area. And that -- there would be some problems with trying to transport then members of that community who are in need of our services. To go. Probably you will have to wrestle me a little bit with me if we are talking about getting rid of post road and -- and palm square.
>> square.
>> only because I think first and foremost it serves my constituency.
>> I would also add, Commissioners, that in listening to your conversation about the post road site, what I had expressed to facilities is that, you know, knowing that legal aid was moving out, that with the move for health and human services, you would have to consider, you know, part of that space being used to expand the post road site because that would be your only county emergency assistance site in the downtown area. And so we would see a considerable upswing. So my interest would be that if -- if health and human services was a viable candidate for a move, that I would have you, you know, package that with the post road available space because that would be the only opportunity you would have to expand that space because we are on the first floor, as a matter of fact, once legal aid moves out, the entire first floor with the exception of that space would be health and human services programs.
>> the thing about that -- that building palm square again, like I said, people can walk there. And I think if it were possible to make it work, we would -- it would probably be a good place for ces to be -- well, because it serves my constituency. And I知 not -- I think we need to put the public service back into public office. And public offices. If you looked at your zip code, people from that zip code, 04 and 02, primarily the others would be people that you serve, I think that would be a -- in my view, a perfect place for y'all. Then you can divide between the zip codes south of 7th street and the zip codes north of 7th street. And so we could serve people well.
>> before we get too carried away, roger this was just a straw man, wasn't it? You put that on there to sort of rule it out yourself, didn't you? [multiple voices]
>> he wants us to know that he looked at all of the options.
>> we would like to skies post road also. In the work session. We have so many issues.
>> I知 sorry, one more technical question. Related to going back to what our assumptions were back in 2003, did we not ask the county clerk and tax collector, what they thought was going to be their daily attendance from the public. And did the visitations match or as I have been told many times, the popularity of that site far exceeded anything that anybody anticipated in terms of number of people just coming in to those two offices. There was kind of this pent up demand that even with the addition of Pflugerville, the addition of space over -- off of springdale with, the addition of precinct 4, precinct 3, there was just a lot of stuff happening out there of -- of needing to do business with the tax office, be it in your neighborhood or at the airport location. We didn't count on that being --
>> we knew that people had an option of going out there or coming downtown if --
>> absolutely. That's what I知 saying judge. They anticipated that there would be x amount of traffic, it's gone beyond that. We never counted in that being an early voting location. It is. And there are a lot of people now coming on a daily basis when we have huge election periods to come do business there related to elections. So there's even more traffic.
>> I hope that we have not taken small actions that would prevent us from utilizing, fully utilizing that expensive space. 20,000 square feet is a lot of space. Seems to me that we need to put it to some use.
>> parking, parking. Parking.
>> park inside the building.
>> we are not through yet, I don't think.
>> tear down a metal building and put in a structured parking garage. That's item no. 5.
>> well, let's see what four is about.
>> okay. Option number 4 is we are going to build a second floor and -- and the roof and level out the floor. But there's going to be only temporary basis meaning if we want to move one department say from downtown area over there temporarily, we have space to do it. We have space to house them over there. That's what we call temporary. Really, the option is we don't know who is going to go there. This option is not like a great option for us to use those space over there on a temporary basis because anybody -- any department is going to go and house the temporary space, we have to do lots of renovation, costs added to it, we don't know what the cots would be. But it is a good idea that there is some space in here for temporary. The on option number 5 it's a parking garage. Let me expand on that a little bit. On your package right there, you have about 54,000 square feet of -- of the parking garage, a couple of weeks and -- and yesterday we looked even more into the parking garage square footage and in order to serve the -- the -- the property and if there's any future expansion to that property over there, we are going to move on to about like 110 square foot, which means the metal building right now, plus extending a total way to airport boulevard, was -- was l shaped. So this is going to give us about 400 parking space and at the cost of 48.20 per square foot, including engineerings, architectural and fees and testing the whole nine yards. So --
>> total cost of how much?
>> the total cost would be $5,300,000, we have one 700,000, so that would be -- 1,700,000, if that option is chosen, we will be needing about -- [multiple voices]
>> but that could be down sized. [laughter]
>> you could be anything from just using the footprint of the building right now, which is a much smaller number, or if you wanted to maximize what you could put into a parking structure, it could be that 5 million dollar figure. It could also be something in between there or a parking garage that could be added on to at a later date. There are multiple options there that could be anything in between. If you say it is parking, well, you can always be a parking garage to be added on to like we did at garner-betts, over at wooldridge park. You can add on to a garage if you plan to do so, if the needs are there.
>> roger, if -- if -- if anything was in mind, you put this on the plate as far as the design of a parking garage, how many parking spaces are you really referring to and what would be the height of that parking garage? If -- if it's something that the court was looking at?
>> you want to take that one?
>> how many levels?
>> yeah, we believe we could do a garage probably a maximum of four to five levels. And -- [multiple voices] -- I知 sorry?
>> that's what I was kind of suspicious of, go ahead and continue.
>> we think that the -- the number of cars, depending on the footprint that we end up, the number of cars could be anywhere from 60 to 80 cars per level, so we could achieve probably 320 to 400 cars if we go that high.
>> the reason I知 -- I brought that particular question up, because you do have a -- a neighborhood that's adjacent to this particular property. I think that the ridgetop neighborhood folks over there would like to have a lot to say about a five story structure adjacent to the neighborhood. Again, if the court do decide to go in that direction, I think we need to see what ridgetop neighborhood folks are going to have to say about that. Thank you.
>> [indiscernible] paved parking lot paid parking lot?
>> that would more than likely be for employees, that would leave the surface parking for visitors. This would assume some other real estate transactions would take place in that area.
>> yeah.
>> we have 221 total employees. So would we have space for additional county programs that would require county employees who would need additional parking? Justifying a garage that size.
>> we would probably build out the lower area of the parking garage as administrative space for various -- various county offices. And as I said before, I don't think this garage makes a lot of sense unless we acquire other property in that area and go to a -- to a -- a mini campus, so to speak. So I think that it's probably a larger issue out there related to this parking garage.
>> I think so.
>> to keep your options open because it's the kind of -- I think that you are absolutely correct. It presumes other moves are in play, it also means that you could plan for the future depending on if there were future moves in play. Certainly I don't want to scare anybody by a five story garage. I think originally they were talking about something being three levels tall, which would be very consistent with what's going on in that stretch, that commercial stretch of airport boulevard. Still be respectful of what's going on behind it. I think three was more where I was at. But you have the capacity to go higher, but that is so dependent upon other real estate moves, which have not occurred.
>> how much would three levels cost?
>> three levels would cost -- it's back to -- to $2.3 million.
>> we have already got 1.7.
>> yes.
>> but that would take up -- the rest of the space or just some of the space?
>> the rest of the space, the whole space.
>> meaning that you would not have that metal building to build out.
>> that metal building has to be demolished and put the [indiscernible] over there.
>> instead of the project costing a total of 8.4 million, it would cost 8.4 million plus 2.2?
>> 2.3. Yes.
>> 2.3. That's 10.7 million, we lose 20,000 square feet of space to utilize.
>> 40.
>> 40,000.
>> how much.
>> 40,000.
>> 40,000. [multiple voices]
>> good government point here. I can't see it. The good government point is what or is there one?
>> the parking garage really is not a good option just like he said. If -- unless you acquire more property and increase the services in that area. Right now really parking garage does not add any value with the current situation or even with option number 1. It doesn't have any value.
>> even if you build it as a paid parking lot it doesn't because you don't have enough services out there for the need to have that. I mean, you know you have some crazy times, I mean, when you do that but, I mean, for us to consider a parking lot, anywhere, if we are going to build a parking lot, we need to find the way to build a parking lot down here to be an income generator. That's -- we need to -- to troy to find a -- to try to find a way to do that. Because then we could -- you know, we could pay for it and generate some dollars on top of that. But I mean this would be crazy to -- I mean I know you just put it down, not recommending it roger, but to take 20,000 square feet away, and to become, you know, something that's going to cots you a couple or three million dollars on top of that, I mean, there's -- almost like [indiscernible]
>> well to maintain status quo means that we give up utilization of 20,000 to 40,000 square feet of space.
>> for -- we would have to find another solution for ces.
>> yes.
>> but at least we have employees and public parking as we know it today taken care of. I guess we have some options left for the future.
>> yes.
>> with the space that's there.
>> uh-huh.
>> but financially, we do waive that cost savings from moving ces to lease space. Plus we pick up another 220,000 a year hickey on a new lease space similar to what we have been looking at, ces, right? In addition we are looking at immediate space renovation on improvements that would cost a quarter of a million dollars.
>> that's right.
>> status quo financially and space-wise, is costly. But the question is is there a better option.
>> again I hope we --
>> I hope we can put a dollar amount on what carroll has said that they can't take a year at their current location and if legal aid indeed builds out as they anticipate, they will also lose parking spaces at their current location. And we can go to a cheaper lease, and help offset by the move of the 4 d masters down to post road in getting them out of leased space to help be the offset. But judge related to the parking garage, that is absolutely dependent on some other things being in play because it makes zero sense to put in a parking garage if other real estate things don't occur. It just leaves the option open for those things to occur and if you put more people in there and take away even more parking space from the employees and the people coming in there, then we are going to take a very convenient wonderful location where people love it because they can get in, get outlet and do their business, we will make it a replica of downtown, employees and public doesn't have enough parking and we have a potential of running over into a neighborhood in terms of people figuring out ways to figure out a parking situation. They will cut over through other commercial properties and cut their that property to get to the front of ours, that fence won't stop anybody.
>> if we are serious about taking a look at this area, for a downtown campus and I think we ought to do that.
>> yes, sir.
>> because the last time we use the cluster approach we ended up with del valle. We have been told that it's the most inefficient situation in the world. That why we pinpointed a 15 to 20-acre tract of land at robert mueller and inquired about that. I guess we have not gotten a final no, it's just that we are a long way from getting a yes, right, christian?
>> and at what figure, what dollar figure, 40 million, 50 million to build out a campus, what's it going to be?
>> in the long run it would be cheaper than moving piecemeal over to airport. The question is who would move out there, what it would cost. I assume that we could free up some buildings that we could sell and take that money and -- spend on the new complex, but I mean if -- if our goal is to -- to consider this as an option for the campus, then I think we ought to do that. But if we just look at ces and say okay if our immediate concern is ces, you know, what can we do, we have got to have more than two options we are looking at, don't we? And ces people would have to be public servants like the rest of us. If there's a temporary fix that will take one year, ms. Coleburn has been an outstanding public employee for 20 years, I know she can find it within herself to be one for another year, if we are reasonable. Now, -- --
>> I really think we need to get them into other lease space. Other lease space and get them settled and out of there and let legal aid move on with their lives and to keep as many options open on airport boulevard as possible. But if we move them into airport boulevard, they don't get to go in there the next -- in two months. They have to wait a full year and we eliminate opportunities for airport that could also include utilizing that space not for parking, but for other government functions, depending on whether that becomes a campus or not.
>> it's an option --
>> my option would be just to say we are going to move on the lease that has been presented to us under item 51 to just say you know we need to get those folks situated, get them out of there and we still retain our options to be able to put in other governmental functions into airport or it could be parking or whatever. But ces ought not be part of that mix because we can't give them relief in anything less than 12 months, if airport boulevard is their hose sent new home.
>> we can deal with that one when we get to item 51. But for this item, do we need to do something today?
>> yes, ma'am. You have -- you have six options.
>> option 2 seems to be the one that -- that -- that -- gets us down the road with our original plan. So I mean --
>> we are not going to do one, the only other one that makes sense to me is -- is 6, which is maintain status your. We absorb the hit, the two hits that we are taking.
>> five, judge. The six is the parking garage.
>> roger's five or agenda six.
>> the item, though, if you look at the agenda.
>> right.
>> it's not the agenda back jurngs it's the agenda.
>> right.
>> we have legal services here. Did you all come to hear the discussion or would you like to put on your bullet proof vest and jump into the fray here.
>> judge, my name is eroll souther land.
>> come to the table.
>> you have been a wonderful landlord, we appreciate that, we hope that we have alwaysing equally a good landlord for you all in post road. I appreciate you all's patience, dan.
>> speaking from one landlord to another landlord, I appreciate it. We mainly came here to answer any question goes that you all might have. We have nothing, you know, in particular, no agenda, we just are at a point right now where -- where we are needing to know what -- what your plans are for 4920, because we -- during this delay we have not engaged a broker to market that space because in order for us to have bought this building, to begin with, we -- we recognize that we were going to have to lease space on the first floor in order to make ends meet. And not increase our operating budget for Travis County. So, you know, the important thing is that a decision be made so that we know whether or not you are moving out on February 28th, we tell the broker to make it available March 1, or, you know, we don't engage a broker and we wait and market it for January of 2007. I can, you know, tell you that we -- we have made options or we have plans that would accommodate the court regardless of which way you go. We can reduce our parking needs, if that is required by doing some other things. We can -- you know, the lease space, the -- the parking issues, I don't know are that -- are that extreme from 8:00 to 5:00, based upon the -- the things that we are going to be doing with the property. I can also tell you that -- that all of the drilling and the banging that's going on is part of general renovations that any landlord in any commercial property has to -- has to -- to go through. And that the tenants in those buildings have to provide some accommodation and allowance for that. However, our construction period is scheduled all of the drilling, I spoke with the contractor this morning and all of the studs and all of the dry wall and all of the noise making should be completed by November the 15th. And the entire construction, we are going to be starting putting in carpet on December the 15th, so -- so at that point when you are putting in carpet, you are pretty much done. And so -- so our plan is right now to -- to be in there at the end of the year, December 31, which means that we are talking you know about construction being completed by December 31. So -- so the -- the -- the tolerance of the noise really is only -- we are only begging that and I talked to the contractor today and -- you know, asked them if they would keep it a little quieter during the next couple of weeks, but that's the -- the next couple of weeks is when they are going to be, you know, putting the studs into the concrete floor and -- and that's going to make some noise, but we -- we tried to do everything that we can to accommodate theresa and her folks down there, they are great folks and we would love for you all to stay. We just -- at some point we understand that -- that ces needs to expand. And they are not going to be able to expand to 4920. We recognize that, we fully anticipate that at some point in time y'all are going to move. We just need to know when that's going to be so that we can make our plans. But we can work -- the emphasis here that if there's anything that I want to emphasize is that we can work with the court, with ces, to minimize the parking issues, if there are indeed parking issues in the mornings. I mean that -- that is -- I have been over there, since we -- since we started purchasing, you know, the whole feasibility period. And I致e been there during the daytime and I have gone around and counted parking spaces. At varying times of the day. 8:00 to 5:00, I have always seen enough parking for -- to accommodate my staff.
>>
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>>
>> ...we will only have 12 to maybe 13 or 14 full-time employees there after 6:00 o'clock in the evening. We operate a hotline that operates from 8:00 to 8:00. That hotline is manned, if you will, by university of Texas law students. And they're there from 8:00 to 8:00, but at 8:00 they go home. And between the hours of, say, and 8:00 we'll probably maybe only have 12 to 15 people there, as I said, late stragglers of folks who are still working, many of our attorneys work late, but not all of them do. And so the parking issue in the mornings, as many times as I致e been over there, I致e counted spaces and I didn't view it as an issue, okay, until recently when I was under the impression that the classrooms in the mornings were like everybody coming at one time and everybody driving a car. And I致e never seen that, you know, as indicated by theresa a little while ago, she they had that a large number of people coming, the buses, taxis, some of these folks I imagine with dui's can't drive. They're not eligible to drive over there. And so we've considered all of it and we think from our standpoint, whether you decide to leave February 28th or whether you decide to leave December 31, 2006, we will make it work regardless of your decision. So I just want to impress that upon you.
>> how many eligible parking slots are in that location?
>> we have 114 parking spaces on our property. There is -- we have a reciprocal parking agreement with the church that is adjacent to our property that allows them -- that gives us another 16 non-exclusive spaces. So actually we probably have about 130 available to us. The church is recently changed hands, and another church has moved in over there, and the very first thing they tried to do was try to get us to change the reciprocal agreement, which I refused to do. The reciprocal agreement gives them access to our property, our parking from six k8 r. Cm to two a.m. But from six a.m. To two a.m. They cannot use our property. So we have all day during the day between 8:00 and 6:00, the normal working hours, we have available for non-exclusive parking of 130 -- 114 plus 16, 130 spaces. And so, you know -- and they're restricted in using our property. Now, I understand that there's been some issues that have arisen since manos moved in. I got a call from the director of manos asking me if it would be okay for them to set up a tent in their space and which kind of overlapped into our parking area for purposes of the immunization campaign that they were doing just before school started. I told them that between now and the time that we move in, which is anticipated to be December 31, that between now and then, as long as they did not interfere with our -- with ces's operations that I had no problem with them doing an immunization project, but that once we moved in, the reciprocal agreement would be enforced in full, okay, and so -- and I understand that during that process -- during those things they had a couple of other functions that carried on outside in the parking lot. I just heard about them this morning, that they were maybe creating a lot of noise, if you will, with music and those kinds of things. And I can certainly talk to manos about that. When they moved in, their toilet facilities were in need of renovation, and being a good neighbor, you know, I said you come over and use ours. But we had some problems with that and theresa called me about that and we put a stop to it. We said if you can't control your people come ng and using the toilets, manos, you will have to go back to using yours. So we tried to accommodate everybody over there because manos does a good thing. The day labor which is right next door to us is an operation that they know and are going to be more stringently told that the folks in the day labor facility are not going to be able to park in our parking lot once we -- once we move in because they take up some space, and being a good neighbor, and those folks are out there trying to find jobs, and we don't want to affect their inability to get to their -- to the day labor camp to get those jobs, but at the same time if we have ces there, our whole idea in the long-term was that we would not have a tenant such as ces on the long-term where you would have hundreds of people coming in. It would be more of a -- we might have other nonprofits there or we might have a commercial enterprise, but it would be daily, the typical come in, come out kind of traffic.
>> roger, what mentioned there is that if a decision were made to go someplace else that we could not get out of there any earlier than the end of February 2006. Is that an accurate number? Because I thought we were -- if that were an option, we could get ces in to new space sooner than that.
>> well, Commissioner, here is the issue. We're still working with the potential landlord on the lease, and I think we haven't reached yet the business decision or the legal decision yet. And we have the current lease with the legal aid right now until November 30. I think I requested from -- I want to come to the court for an extension to for three more months until if we agree on the new lee, then we have some time to renovate. I don't believe that the landlord in a new place could do everything, but we gave them at facility management set the plan and approved by the ces that we could do it in one month. So it going to take a little bit more time, probably end of December or end of January, so I would ask until February 28th.
>> you should be able to do it in 90 days.
>> yes. And that's what he was saying for November 28th.
>> you would like to know as soon as possible.
>> yes, sir, we would.
>> so really --
>> I hear you saying too that you will work with us whether we want to be there another 90 days or another 14 months.
>> or another 14 months, that's correct. You've got our commitment to make that work.
>> and part of that, I just just want to emphasize to the court in terms of that time line will still be part of the negotiation with the new landlord because sometimes it's just a matter of money in terms of how fast or exactly what it is that we're requiring. So it's still a matter of negotiation.
>> well, we have committed to make a decision today. In my view we ought to discuss the other item this afternoon, come out of executive session, call both of these up and make a decision before we leave today. That may put us at looking at the agenda, I would guess, 3:30 -- between 3:30 and 4:30 this afternoon. Do you need to touch base with the landlord of the other property to maybe get as firm a commitment on a schedule as possible?
>> I will get that.
>> and even if he just says 90 days or less, that will be good for us to act on. Is that okay?
>> anything else on this item today? Until this afternoon? In that case I move that we will call this item back up at the appropriate time this afternoon, and I知 guessing that will be between, what did I say, 3:30 to 4:30, after executive session. Move that we recess until 1:30.
>> second.
>> all in favor? That passes unanimously.
item 9 was reposted for November 8, 2005.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Last Modified:
Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:17 AM