Travis County Commissioners Court
September 6, 2005
Items 1 & 2
1. Receive comments regarding request to authorize the filing of an instrument to vacate a part of the cedar street right of way between lots 104 and 105 located in the hughes park lake subdivision #'1 in precinct three. And number 2. Receive comments regarding request to authorize the filing of an instrument to vacate half of the cedar street right of way fronting only lot 105 located in the hughes park lake subdivision #'1 in precinct three.
>> move to open the public hearing.
>> second.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote.
>> [indiscernible]
>> yes, ma'am, we'll be right with you. That's okay.
>> the difference between 1 and 2 is what?
>> the extent of the vacation. One is the vacation of the entire right-of-way, the other is just vacation of a portion of the right-of-way. This is really an unusual request in that this is not a publicly maintained roadway. It is a dedicated right-of-way, not maintained by the county. We have opposing parties on this request. And -- so I really think probably the best way to present this, to lay it out, both parties are present. Is to have -- have mr. -- ms. J. Johnson, the requester, lay out the request, first of all, for the vacation. And then allow the representative of the second party, the second party being janice allen, and her legal -- her representative kelly callahan, to [indiscernible] opposition to vacation.
>> joe, is there a short statement of relevant facts that we should get from staff?
>> yes. Let me have ana step through the request.
>> okay.
>> ana bolin, Travis County t.n.r. My understanding is that mr. Johnson wants to -- or he's building a house and because he wants to build a driveway, he needed to vacate part of -- of the road. And -- or that was what was most convenient and -- and -- anyways, that was what was most convenient for him for his driveway and -- and therefore the question came up, whether or not to vacate all or part of this road. There are several things going on in this subdivision. Part of -- part of -- well, cedar street is not a publicly maintained road. This section. It's in the hughes park lake subdivision, section one, like I said, this portion is not publicly maintained. Further down cedar street we've had some issues with parking on cedar street. We have had some issues with drainage, we have had some issue goes with erosion -- issues with erosion control. There have been several issues in this subdivision. In part that's why we want to have both sides speak to -- to tow which way they would like to see this vacationing. There's been a lot of discussion about this item.
>> is there a discretionary [indiscernible] of the Commissioners court in terms of granting vacation?
>> yes, it is.
>> this used to be my precinct. We had the cedar street wars before. And it was trying to get people to a place where we could come to consensus, even though it may not have been perfection for either side. If we do nothing, can we force folks to like keep talking and see what you can land on because it -- at least to me it does not seem like there -- one side is going to win, one side is going to lose. In this kind of thing, that's the last thing that we need is the perception that there is a winner and there is a loser. But I知 jumping the gun here.
>> now, who requested number 1? If we could have you come forth and give us exactly what you request and why, on number 1. We have two seats available, so if you are here on number one, please come forward. We would be happy to get your comments.
>> I知 jay johnson, here to talk about the vacation of cedar street. And we made a petition to -- to have a -- have a solution worked out for -- for a house that I built. That was submitted through the county of travis --
>> okay, so your request is what now?
>> to have access to my driveway base and a house that I constructed at the corner of park and cedar street.
>> in order to get that, joe, we have to vacate a part of the cedar street right-of-way.
>> that is the request.
>> okay.
>> the building plat that was filed with the county, the e.t.j. And the city of Austin was approved and signed off on interim financing was obtained, that the condition of the accessibility of the property would be off of cedar street. Cedar street had been abandon, never officially brought through. Through numerous meetings and following protocol and procedures, we've ended up here today to try to get a final decision to either vacate half of the street to allow the driveway to come through, all of the -- all of the vacation to allow each neighbor to share 50/50 of the -- of the effective park and last and final, if you can't have the driveway, then bring the street through. I知 land locked now not being able to access my house, that is a big concern of mine. I have got a -- a full assessment, a tax value that I received in the mail for this year and I -- I ought to have access to this property. Even through a driveway -- either through a driveway or through the street.
>> so this house is -- this house is constructed already.
>> yes, sir.
>> but it's empty? You have not moved in yet?
>> yes, sir.
>> but in order to access it, you need right-of-way vacated.
>> right now, I have got a dirt access that is very difficult to navigate. Dress an erosion control issue. Lastly, the natural resources department mandated that the grade be changed to -- to -- to divert the water runoff away from my septic field. They won't allow the water to run freely across the septic field and erode that into the neighborhood.
>> I think what's missing here, perhaps for the court, is that this is a -- an old subdivision that was not built to county standards. And one of the reasons why the street has not been accepted for maintenance is because it is [indiscernible] so a lot of the problems that are evolving here are in part due to the fact that it is a public road, not accepted for county maintenance because it's substandard, thus the grade that does not meet standards. So we have lots that can truly build off this road, even though it's not a publicly maintained roadway. But which presents other problems and as has been described. So -- so what's -- I think the -- what you laid out, either build a road to meet county standards, that would be -- meet our requirements, but at a pretty healthy cost, because it's an extreme [indiscernible] or to vacate it and allow the property owner to build a driveway to access that house.
>> that driveway plan has been submitted and it was approved with an engineering ratification that it would handle the drainage. Even though I am the last line of property ownership on that line, I had to pay the extra fees to engineer a solution that would handle the other seven acres of cedar street's runoff coming right down the road at me. That has been submitted and it complies with the engineering standards to handle the runoff.
>> joe, tell me why there is not one other option here, that is that it's status quo on cedar street, there is still an access points to this person's property off of cedar street, but where -- what triggers the requirement that something has to happen on cedar street either a driveway, a long driveway in effect to his property, as opposed to its a dirt road now, and it stays a dirt road and the -- the nice concrete is the piece that starts at his property line. Why is it that this -- this -- this area here is even in play? What's wrong with the status quo? If it's a substandard subdivision, why does it not stay a substandard subdivision unless somebody wants to go the full monty and upgrade this thing at their expense and bring it into the county?
>> the condition of the roadway itself.
>> I get that. [multiple voices]
>> so -- bad off. So to -- the full monty to improve the road to county standard would be fairly expensive. To build a driveway in the same place, basically just affects one property owner, it's a driveway where -- where -- within the full road section. So they could -- mainly it's the condition of the road as it is right now and caught upgrading it to provide access.
>> do we know about how much?
>> I can only -- upgrade the entire roadway?
>> how long of a road is this?
>> it's about -- about 500 feet? Roughly about 500 feet.
>> your request is that we simply vacate the part that would allow you to do a driveway to the home?
>> yes, sir.
>> notice, what I知 not understanding, also, is why was this legal situation not needing to be worked out first before this person was allowed to go ahead and construct a house? They kind of presumed a solution that required other people to sign-off or impacted other people on this road.
>> I don't think there's a legal prohibition for building a house on a subdivision lot. It has acted as a road, it's not a county maintained public road. I think it meets all of the legal requirements for building on lot.
>> then why are we here? If it meets all of the requirements, while that may be the optimum solution for mr. Johnson, I知 not understanding why he just doesn't have his access down the same crummy road that it's always been that is the responsibility of the private landowners and unless he can come, hi, sandra, good to see you, I recognize you -- unless he can come to a conclusion that is acceptable to all others who are impacted by this. It's not just the people across the street, it's people up and down that roadway. I知 not understanding why the county is being forced to referee something that ought to be left to the private parties to figure it out and then we will bless whatever it is that you guys do.
>> so if we did nothing.
>> thank you.
>> what would keep mr. Johnson from going out there and doing his driveway and enjoying his home?
>> [indiscernible] [inaudible - no mic]
>> that was directed to the director of transportation and natural resources.
>> that would be -- that would be a private improvement within the right-of-way.
>> okay. Are other homes on this street.
>> yes, they are.
>> they have driveways?
>> yes, they have rights to that right-of-way.
>> everybody would have -- will have an opportunity today. You were about to give me an estimate of the cost to -- to the street.
>> I will have to -- to get that estimate for you.
>> I can wait.
>> mr. Johnson, anything else?
>> judge, we've been working on this project for over seven months. My interim financing has run its course, every day costs money. I spent $10,000 out there in that driveway to groom and grade, to take out the private construction that was there illegally, non-permitted. And I致e been a victim since day one on this thing. I submitted the plans, the plans got signed off and approved by all of the people of -- of power to make those decisions. I followed the rules. And I致e had a lot of hardship in trying to get to a point where I can have a drive. I have got a physical address, 12891 park road and the bottom line is this is all about money. These are expensive homes. This is expensive dirt. And this is an expensive neighborhood that is on the grow. Everything over there is getting bulldozed and redone. There is a lot of tax revenue over there that is coming into the county and it's going to be on the grow. I致e got several other opportunities to develop. But this one is -- has just been a thorn in everybody's side. I have got an issue with the drainage. That I致e reconciled with the engineered plan. And we are prepared to do whatever we need to do up to and including, you know, an entire road. But there's a problem with the road, judge. The neighbor has built over in the road easement. If we bring the road through, they are going to bulldoze 16 feet of her garage that's illegally in the easement. That's not enough room in there to put a 15-foot setback off this road and bring the road to standard. The one thing that makes clear sense is to vacate both parcels and the clouds go away on that neighbor's title, and there's no encroachments left and everybody lives happy. And I can handle that runoff with my engineered plan to -- on a controlled driveway.
>> so we approve the plan of construction of the home.
>> the site plan, yes.
>> on the site plan there is a driveway --
>> there is access to the -- to the roadway.
>> that implies a driveway of some sort? Question?
>> yes.
>> thank you, mr. --
>> again I知 not understanding why there was a -- an assumption that there would be a paved driveway down to the point where the -- it is the actual consider the entrance to that piece of property. I知 not understanding why that was a presumption as opposed to a possibility, which would need to get sign-off by others, but presumes a legal solution that had not been approved. I知 just -- I知 just -- I知 having -- having flashbacks --
>> okay.
>> five or six years ago.
>> right now there's simply dirt there with a -- with a drainage issue, is that --
>> you can see on the back pictures where they have the postings, it is rough.
>> okay.
>> it changes every time it rains, judge.
>> oh, yeah.
>> okay. Any closing words, mr. Johnson?
>> just be fair with me. Thank you.
>> yes?
>> your honor, my name iscally callahan, I represent janice sue allen, she is the owner of the lot 104, which is for the last -- since that home was built in [indiscernible] that portion of the right-of-way was used.
>> we will need you to be seated and speak right into that mike.
>> my name is callie callahan, I represent janice sue allen.
>> all right. Ms. Allen is a property owner out there?
>> that's correct, your honor.
>> all right. She is the owner of lot 104. She is also the owners -- owner of lot 86 and 87, which is at the south end of that property, I think -- I think Commissioner Sonleitner has -- has indicated that this is a very steep grade road. I think mr. Johnson even indicated that. And because of the improvements that are being constructed, let me -- let me first of all say that at one point in time, according to my client, she built some concrete roadway improvements in that right-of-way because of drainage issues and accessibility. And I have actually a -- a photograph of that if the court would like to see that. During the course of all of this, mr. Johnson, I guess, based upon some recommendation by the county, or at least that's what's been indicated that they had some type of a court order, came through and basically bulldozed all of those improvements that were done in the right-of-way. Some of those improvements were done in order to protect ms. Allen's other property at the south end where that road intersects park drive from flooding. And since the construction of mr. Johnson's improvements on the 105, it has indeed been flooded at least two times because of drainage issues off of that road. Ms. Allen is very concerned because mr. Johnson has, according to ms. Allen, has told her on at least one occasion that he is going to vacate the right-of-way, he's going to build a fence, when he gets it vacated and he is going to flood her property at the south end of that property. And obviously that has caused great concern to my client. Because of those statements that were made by mr. Johnson. There's no doubt that there are disagreements between these two parties. I have -- I had just been engaged recently and contacted an attorney who I believe represents mr. Johnson to see if we could amicably resolve this prior to this hearing. But unfortunately I was only able to talk to him on Thursday and with the holiday, I知 not sure that -- that that conversation, you know, that he's ever been able to present that to mr. Johnson or what mr. Johnson's thoughts are on that proposal.
>> do you think that you and that lawyer may be able to work this matter out if you all are given another week?
>> your honor, I would hope so. I mean, I have encouraged my client -- now that she's represented by legal counsel, I think sometimes your honor when lawyers work together sometimes we can convince our clients of things that maybe the clients because of such hard feelings of things that have gone on prior wouldn't be able to work out on their own. And so I知 hopeful of that. I can't promise this court that we can reach a resolution of it. But -- but I think in any situation we know that mediating these types of disputes, because I think Commissioner Sonleitner is correct, that somebody is going to walk away feeling wronged if -- if the court decides to do this. And you know, we would respectfully request that we be given an opportunity to work this out. Ms. Allen is represented by counsel. I知 her counsel. She's got some concerns about the drainage issues. Additionally, the way that this property -- there's a garage, the improvements that mr. Johnson was talking about that are in the right-of-way, they don't -- the garage does not extend 16 feet into the right-of-way. I think that it's just barely over the property line. There is a deck and a very old large oak tree that sits about 17 feet into that right-of-way. It's a huge oak tree. It's been there for many years. To kind of get to the rear of her property, the front of the property where she's accessed it previously, it's a very steep grade. The previous property owners never really used the front of the house for access because it's such a steep grade, I -- I would imagine there are about 30 steps to get up it. So they have come around the back of the property, the garage is on the rear, so they have always taken a real wide turn to get into the garage. If a portion of this is vacated, they won't be able to take that wide turn off, on to cedar street into the garage. Ms. Allen also asked previously, she would have liked to have had a driveway off of park drive, too, because it's much easier access to that garage. You don't have to take that wide of a turn into the garage. But apparently she was denied that application and so it seems -- it seems contradictory to allow mr. Johnson to have a driveway up -- off park drive up cedar street when I believe ms. Allen has previously requested that and it was denied. I mean, obviously the best of both worlds would be for both parties to have a joint use driveway up the center of that street, vacate the road, the 50 feet, 19 feet on both sides with the 12-foot joint access easement up the center. Which would allow access without my client having to maneuver around the garage and also allow her access to the rear of the property. I think mr. Johnson's contractors can testify that trying to turn around, it's my understanding that the north end where this -- where this road ends, there's a barricade, so there's never been through access. And so a lot of people that have to go and turn around up at the top of that street in order to -- to get around and so -- so in -- in previous months during the construction of the residence or the home on lot 105, you know, trucks were having to pull into and on to ms. Allen's property just to kind of maneuver around in that area. So -- so it has been a source of great concern, your honor and we would just, you know, respectfully request that the court at this time deny the vacation request. Give the parties additional time to work it out. With the proposal. And if that doesn't work out, proceed before this court again.
>> so if there's a joint use access given to mr. Johnson and ms. Allen, would any other residents out there be adversely affected?
>> [indiscernible]
>> this is sandra.
>> that you know of?
>> there's someone I guess --
>> you can come up and have a seat because you are going to get to be able to speak.
>> you can testify on number one still, right?
>> that's correct, right.
>> okay.
>> I was just looking at the survey of what mr. Johnson had proposed and so I think it ends -- I don't know if looking at this picture would help the court. But it ends at the property lines of 104 and 105.
>> are they marked on that map.
>> yes, your honor, they are. Would you like to see this.
>> we may as well take a look at it. Anybody else on number 1? Public hearing number 1?
>> yes. My name is ms. Williams. I actually live on cedar street and I also have a picture for you. Of this street as it looks. Not an aerial. I live at the -- it hard to explain, when you are coming down cedar street, there is the county -- we petitioned for a substandard road improvement several years ago. Which started this whole process. The two properties that we are talking about now, the owners were not there when this road was put in. And the -- the extension that's on cedar street right now that this young lady just said, was there since the house was there. It is not true. It was not there when the substandard road was improved. The substandard road was -- was stopped at the three quarters of the way down cedar street, because of the drainage problem. Ms. Allen purchased the property after all of this, knowing all of the -- also mr. Johnson's property was purchased after. Bear in mind, both of these properties are up for sale today. These are not people who are going to live in these houses and be affected by this problem. My house is two houses from where this property dead-ends. I have a picture to show you so you can see what the street looks like, how the drop is. There was a county barricade put in to avoid traffic going down cedar street any further because of the drainage problem. When ms. Allen first moved in there and starting putting stuff in the right-of-way, trees and stuff so that she could put her deck and her driveway there, I spoke to her and I explained to her that that was still, even though it wasn't accepted by the county, it was still a right-of-way that we still drove down with our bicycles, we still walked down, the people in the community still used it because it was an access to where everybody walked. She said that she could put anything in there she wanted. That started the problem. When mr. Johnson's house was first built, that's incorrect. The driveway was originally on park street. When they decided they wanted to take cedar street over, the driveway, the garage was moved to cedar street. When I saw that the driveway was being moved, I went down to the county and explained to them the problem that we were having. That they had removed the barricade that was put up and had leveled the ground so that their trucks and stuff could get in. Which it was doing was all of the construction trucks was now blocking my driveway because they were going in my driveway is at the end of that. So they would now -- they were now parking all up and down park street, cedar street and going in cedar street and not using park street. Park street remained pleasant. Even though that -- both houses are on park street. Cedar street was the only street that got affected by all of this construction and stuff. I went down, I talked to the Commissioner's office, I talked to everybody and in gieselman's office, everybody in enforcement. They assured me, oh, no they will never open up this right-of-way, it's condemned. When they moved the driveway, I went back and explained to them, there is no way that this man can get to this house without opening up cedar street. And I asked them point blank, are you going to try to vacate that property because if you vacate that property, you are causing a problem for me because what you are in effect doing is putting a parking lot at the back of my house. Which it's already a parking lot for the two houses, I guess one of the people here now, so I guess they will speak. That's two houses on each side and effectively when they put the barricade up, they decided well the street is vacated anyway and started parking in the street. Which made it impossible for anybody to turn around there, so again they are turning around behind my house at my driveway. Backing up into my driveway. So -- every time they make a change on this street, I get affected because I知 the only one that's behind the right-of-way, the only one that got a survey before I moved and stuck by it, so I知 kind of pisted about -- pissed about this, I知 sorry. I wish that you would look at this picture so you that can see. When mr. Johnson bought that property, that grade was already there. There was no way that you could build the kind of house that was approved to be built, I called the county and asked them about that, before construction started. That driveway was supposed to be on park, all utilities and everything was supposed to be on park. That driveway was moved, the garage was moved to cedar. Knowing that there was a barricade. If you see this barricade, the driveway is right next to the barricade. And so I came down and I tried to be cooperative. When they come out there, I went out there said look, I don't care if you use the driveway, but you have to open the street up because if you close this street up, we have enough problems with drainage and everything else with this street and if you open this, if you don't open this street up and let traffic go through, I知 going to have a -- a parking garage at the end of my property. As for ms. Allen, the building that she's talking about, it's not a house. It's a building that she's using to rent out for parties and things. She has bought the lot next to mr. Johnson, behind mr. Johnson's house, to use as a parking lot because I had to come down to the county again and petition to have no parking signs put along the side of my house so that the people going to her convention center or whatever it is wouldn't park up and down my street and block me from getting in.
>> all right. Let me ask you -- tell me your name again.
>> ms. Williams.
>> ms. Williams. I think that you just hit on something very important. I mean you wouldn't have a problem most likely if that home weren't being used as a business. I mean, because it's not like --
>> that's one of the problems.
>> unless you have got people visiting you --
>> unless -- -- [speaker interrupted -- multiple voices]
>> if you don't have eight or nine people visiting you, just the house that you have, we don't have this problem. But when you go and build an oversized house on one lot in a community with most of the houses are on two and three lots and then you want to have a party, you have a problem because you didn't build parking. Mr. Jay johnson, that's about a 4,000 square foot house. With a two car garage. There is no way that the parking was adequate for that house, whoever approved it. And the house is for sale. And if he's saying that he's going to live in that house, I would say we should have some proof because both -- there are for sale signs in front of those houses.
>> why would you say that a two car parking garage is not adequate parking? I mean there are a ton of homes -- homes in this city, I mean, that have --
>> I will tell you --
>> two car -- [speaker interrupted -- multiple voices]
>> I understand that. I will tell you why. In my neighborhood, I will tell you, in my neighborhood it is not sufficient. Because most of the houses that are on cedar and park, even though they are calling them single family houses, they have built them in such a way that as soon as the county leaves, they convert the garage into a separate living quarters or the first floor and they rent them all out. And so they have multiple people in those houses, whether that's legal or not. There are still three or four -- there's still three or four -- I can name each house that that has been done to, if you need me to. I can give you the addresses. There's only two -- mr. [indiscernible] is the house that's behind mr. Jay johnson's house, that's the only one that hasn't been done like that. But there is -- he does have some kind of building or something that was there when I moved there that -- that potentially could be leased out. So the -- the parking situation is the problem because unless you open that road up, that -- what's going to happen is that's going to become a parking lot for mr. Buckrock and the gentleman across the street, what's his name.
>> when you say open that road up, you mean --
>> open the road up to go through as a through way so that it's not parking lot anymore. It's a -- it's a regular road.
>> so have the residents out there gotten together and tried to work this issue out?
>> well, when I was told -- what I was told by the county, I was told by the county I went down to the county and asked for that. I was told by the county that because it was not publicly maintained by the county, that -- they could do whatever they wanted.
>> have the residents out there gotten together and tried to work this issue out?
>> no. I went down there --
>> I know --
>> what I知 saying to you is the people who are affected have always -- have tried to -- I went down there, tried to talk to ms. Allen, I talked to mr. Johnson's workers on several occasions.
>> how many residents are we talking about?
>> we are talking about one, two, three, four, five -- five residents.
>> okay. On the agenda are lots 104 and 105.
>> right.
>> the number of your lot would be?
>> um ...
>> would it be 119.
>> 99.
>> 99.
>> I think it's 99 to 191, something like -- oh, god.
>> she has a huge chunk here.
>> 99 to 101.
>> if I showed you the picture you can see what I知 talking about.
>> these homes front park street?
>> no, theirs done. Mine is on cedar street.
>> these two front park street.
>> correct.
>> they are trying to get access.
>> from cedar street.
>> off of cedar street.
>> and you live on cedar.
>> I live on cedar street.
>> so your main concern really is parking and cars turning around in your driveway?
>> yes. Mainly parking because they use -- if they put a fence there, just like when the barricade was there, when the barricade was put up, they started uing it as a dead end street parking lot for the two houses on the side. Is there a way for a the driveway to be constructed, in such a way that it eases the existing problem, rather than adding to it?
>> yes. If you open the street up, and they use the street as the driveway, the way everybody else does, then that would -- that would alleviate the problem. If the street is opened up.
>> joe, what would be necessary to open up the street? Open up cedar street?
>> you have got --
>> there may be some issues with that, but first to open it up requires what?
>> well, designing the road. And you are talking about a really steep grade. What -- what you have is a -- is a -- a very steep ridge that goes along the side of these houses, which includes this street itself. So you are going to have to build a road that's on a fairly steep incline. To accommodate the drainage -- the road just comes right down the hill and ties in with a -- with park avenue, on park street. So cedar t's into park. It's going straight down the hill, it's a fairly steep and -- incline right between lots 104 and 105. That's basically what the problem is here. Is access to these lots and building the street itself is all trying to deal with that, semi cliff as it approaches park street. Probably talking $50,000 to improve the roadway. Part of the reasons we didn't take the substandard road program down this is because of the cost of doing that.
>> well, judge, let me tell you something else. That's not a fix on this -- us going down there and fixing this road. I mean, because you have got this huge tree, even -- I mean, who knows how many feet -- the garage is over, whether it's two inches or whether it's 20 feet. I mean, you almost have to go out there, I mean, I have obviously been, you know, deafening silent on this thing. But -- trust me, Commissioner Sonleitner, I mean, I have been out there. I have watched this process take place. Let me say there are a couple of issues here. Number one, there is a major issue because -- I don't begrudge anybody from being able to try to whatever commerce they are in. -- it's pretty hard to take a home in housing subdivision and take it as a business. That's practical. I realize ms. Allen has had that for a while. It is an issue, especially an issue because people want to park up until where this barricade used to be. These pictures that we have in our markup, you can see that before mr. Johnson started going out and trying to remedy what he had -- was an issue, this was asphalted. This wasn't like the chisolm trail that it looks like in these pictures. I mean, there was a time when you could go down there and actually walk down that thing and driveway down that pretty easily. The fact that this is barricaded right here, which is why ms. Williams lives, judge, this road and this is the steep part that comes down to park, if you open this thing up, first of all you are going to have to go and take this huge tree out. And you are probably going to have to take some of ms. Allen's garage. It's just not practical fix. The reason I知 so befuddled we can't get beyond this. There's something more at play here that everybody needs to understand. There is an issue with ms. Allen, there is an issue with mr. Johnson, by the time you stirred that things up, eight, nine months later, no one wants to work with anyone. I do think that because I have worked with -- with mr. Johnson, I think that he has been very earnest in coming and saying let me do whatever I can, I just need access, I do need access off of the Cedar Park versus off of park, it seems like we ought to be able to do that. When we get to 7, unless ms. Callahan you and mr. Johnson can go out there before we get to 7, my recommendation is going to be that we approve the half because I don't think that I can move your client to a point of go out there and find a way to make this thing work. I think mr. Johnson has tried on this thing. I have tried. To do this thing. But I will tell you this is one of those things where you have a feud that it really is an issue that's beyond what I think that they are going to do and unfortunately is going to come our way and I think the reasonable thing to do, I comply with our t.n.r. Department that says I think the best way to do this is to do the vacation for half the road. To allow him to do what he wants to do. I realize ms. Williams you don't think that's right. I知 going to tell you, it's not at the precinct 3 Commissioner, I would not be in favor of coming out and doing a substantial amount of spending county dollars to open that road up so that it -- I know that it looks like that would be the easy simple thing to do. But then we are going to be getting into condemnation, getting into all sorts of things because I don't think that ms. Allen wants to have that done to her place. Now, if -- if the barricade is up, and you stop -- I mean, if the business can't find some way to deal with its traffic, I mean, I would think that's where the neighborhood comes in and says you know what, we are not going to allow you to have a reunion facility in a residential neighborhood. That is the problem with the traffic. Head shaking here, no, yes, I will tell you that is a guy that's been out there.
>> he's the one that's using the barricade.
>> I知 saying, if you keep the barricade there. If you do away with that house as a business, I don't think that you are going to have a tremendous amount of parking issues above that barricade.
>> all right. Let's --
>> can I just say one thing? One thing --
>> hold on. Let me play county judge for just one minute here. We need to finish the public hearing, how many more want to give testimony during this -- these two public hearings? Nobody? One? All right. Two. Then we will finish, then we will go to you, then we will take the others. Then I will pull up the action items and this Commissioners court can speak and then we can take whatever action we want to.
>> okay. There's a 50-foot right-of-way in the deed restrictions. The road that was actually put down by the county that we are using right now is 29 feet. The reason why it is 29 feet is because with the 29 feet we were saving trees, pepper were in the right-of-way, we didn't want to fight and we had made this agreement back when that road was put in. The tree that the Commissioner is talking about is not within that 29 feet. So that road can be put in and that tree not be affected.
>> will the residents be willing to participate financially --
>> when I called I was told that the reason why I should not be concerned about the road was that the -- that the developer had agreed to -- to -- to finish the road and open up that road before that house was finished. Once the driveway got moved all of that changed and when I went back down there, they said oh, no, no, he's not going to do that because of course everybody in the enforcement division changed, everybody moved to the city or wherever they were.
>> the answer to my question is no.
>> what was your question? I知 sorry.
>> would the residents be willing to financially participate in a permanent fix?
>> yes, we are financially participating now. We pay taxes.
>> answer to my question is no.
>> yes, yes, we would.
>> judge.
>> yes, sir, let's move on with the public hearing.
>> [indiscernible]
>> participate in any kind of financial support of any road going through. In fact --
>> what's your name.
>> my name is steven buntrack.
>> are you here on 1 or 2.
>> 119 is the lot that I own. Speaking for myself and speaking for the neighbors that live across the street from cedar street from us, the walldrups, there is no need for a road through, there's no traffic down it that needs to go through there.
>> I think he's asking for a driveway.
>> I beg your pardon.
>> I知 speaking about the road going through. As far as mr. Johnson's driveway, we fully support that. We would like -- we have a driveway that also pulls out on to cedar street, the walldrups do, also, we are simply appear possessed to the road going all of the way through because of the simple traffic problems that you are going to have. Midnight any Saturday night, I have got somebody down there slamming on his brakes outside of my bedroom on that section of cedar street because they didn't see the barricade in time. We would even like to have the section vacated between my lot and the walldrups simply because we don't need that traffic, we don't need the cars coming down there screeching their tires in the middle of the night. We want that barricade moved actually up to the front of cedar street there and the section in between the walldrups and ourselves vacated. We fully support any -- any attempt by mr. Johnson to get a driveway in there. We see no reason why he shouldn't have one.
>> okay. Driveway okay but no street.
>> correct.
>> a final word, ms. Williams. If you want to give testimony during this public hearing, one or two. Please come forward. Public hearings 1 or 2 lease ase come forward, last opportunity.
>> I just want to make sure that you understand what mr. [indiscernible] just said was exactly what I said. That's being used as a driveway. Mr. Buckrock also addresses on thomas street, not cedar street.
>> my driveway is on cedar street. I park the car --
>> his house lot is on thomas street. His driveway --
>> you don't have any problem with mr. Johnson having on driveway just no street?
>> no. I want the street. If you put a driveway then once you put the driveway what's going to happen is he's going to fence off the driveway because he's already told everybody there he's going to fence it off, it will create the same problem that we already have.
>> no driveway unless the street is done us is your position, correct.
>> yes, sir, your name.
>> I知 steve martin and I also live on cedar street.
>> now, nobody else to give testimony during these two public hearings, right? We have three seats available if you wish to give testimony. Okay. Pardon me, mr. Martin.
>> okay.
>> yes, I wanted to address the same issue. And my concern is the same as ms. Williams. But only I see something a little bit more different. Mr. Johnson's house is on park street. And like she, you know, said in the -- in the beginning, he should have access from park street so it would be conducive to all of us in settling the argument for him to have access from park street. And the reason for that is because just how they want to park and open up different driveways where their house is not actually on cedar street, like ours is on cedar street, like the house that they built across from ours, now that's on thomas street, their driveway is actually on cedar street. So that opens up another can of worms and how many cans of worms do we have to open up before we can just get a can and put the worms in and can the worms? There is a culvert on park street. And when you talk about the cost, I know that you got to start from somewhere to get some kind of budget, you know, for -- to open up the road. But you already have a culvert there. In front of the property that mr. Johnson has and in front of the property that the lady that has the business has as well. It's a culvert there. All you need --
>> is that a county or --
>> yes, it is on park street. Where they house -- face park street, their house is located on park street, they are trying to get access to have parking on cedar street, that's what I see further as an issue.
>> is president a county road.
>> yes it is.
>> yes, sir, it is. Yes, sir. They just black topped it here recently.
>> okay. I have been trying to -- I wasn't trying to overstep you. I just watch you guys work all the time out there, I appreciate that.
>> why, when we did this as a substandard project, this was one of those from 1997, that's how we got to know ms. Williams a lot of other folks in the neighborhood here. At that time it was unbelievably difficult just to get the section that's basically from thomas street back up to hughes because this was a -- a substandard subdivision at the time. We had horrendous right-of-way problems. There were tree issues that we are trying to salvage as much as we could. The reason that this project pretty much dumped off right at the point where it is right now in terms of not going too much past thomas street. There was a slight incline, but a doable incline. Once we got to this particular section in dispute right now. It just dumped off. We knew that there were going to be tremendous drainage issues for the people on the park side in terms of who would be the receiving end of any water going down there. At the time when these two houses 104 and 105, they weren't there. We even talked about it at the time of well, what happens when those two lots want to develop. Well, their addresses were on park driveway. And that's where they were going to take their access is on park driveway. We had enough karma just to get the cedar street down to the point that we did. We knew it was just one of those things that was just not going to happen. And I知 a little perplexed and verklempt that 104 and 105 were not developed that their access is on park drive and cedar street is an unimproved not dedicated roadway and that there were people up and down cedar street that had -- were stakeholder in this because of all of the drainage and traffic and right-of-way issues. When we get the action items, I知 going to hope folks will talk to one another, that they haven't been related to an attorney being brought in, see if you guys can work and talk about it for a couple of weeks. Try to see what you can get. If it comes down to heads or tails, we can go from there. I don't think enough talking has been done to force the issue for these folks to get together and visit.
>> can mr. Johnson have a driveway off of park? Are there practical problems?
>> there are some practical problems. I don't know enough about the engineering to respond to your question.
>> okay. We will have a final word right here. Mr. Johnson a final word. 60 seconds or less. This is final word warning I guess. You all have a 60 seconds or less final word, also. Give everybody a final word. Then we will go to the action items and finally do something. Yes?
>> thank you, your honor. Ms. Allen also owns the lots at the end of the t. And as I indicated previously, the way that's planned on being developed, it's basically just a slope off and straight into her house. So the concern there is drainage issues and based upon mr. Johnson's previous comments, according to my client, that he indicated that we have those concerns.
>> do we need to provide security for -- [laughter] to resolve this issue.
>> I hope not, your honor. I知 really hopeful that since I致e gotten involved we can try to work this out. Obviously mr. Johnson and ms. Allen there's no love lost, obviously. In addition I know that everybody keeps referring to ms. Allen's house located on lot 104. If I have that correct. Is that she's conducting parties and weddings at one time I know that she attempted to do that. That was immediately stopped by the residents and that no longer --
>> yes.
>> I think last Saturday, though, ms. Williams, that her daughter getting married, she was using her home for -- her daughter got married at her house. Granted there may have been parking problems at that day. But she's not using her facility any longer because of the concerns that the residents have indicated. Additionally she has that house up for sale as mr. Johnson does. Here we are two feuding parties, if mr. Johnson intends to live there, that's one thing. But my client would like to sell her house. She would like to be able to continue to have the access that's been to that garage for the last 25 or 30 years. If it's vacated and if mr. Johnson puts a fence up, that's really going to hinder her ability to get into the garage, especially if somebody had a boat or a trailer or something like that. In addition she owns the property to the south of the t, if those improvements are done without proper drainage, it has the real potential of flooding her other property.
>> you believe a discussion opportunity might be productive?
>> I would hope so, your honor. But that of course would depend on mr. Johnson and if he is still represented by counsel.
>> mr. Johnson, you have a full minute, not the manuscript that ms. Callahan just took.
>> sorry.
>> a 60 second minute. [laughter]
>> judge, it comes down to getting this thing vacated, to try to take care of all of the issues. Ms. Callahan is the third attorney that we have worked with on representing ms. And n. As far as the house being for sale, there's not a for sale sign out there tonight, it's no the on the market, it's not in mls.
>> it's on the lot.
>> there's an authentic design sign --
>> would a discussion likely be productive?
>> no. I知 paying the interim interest on that thing now it costs me money to sit there every day to get this thing resolved. This is the third attorney that I致e talked with and again it's the same old thing. We don't want anything to change. I have got all of my personal property out there in the middle of the roadway and you all can pound sand, I知 going to do whatever I知 going to do which is nothing. I have already cannibalized it on behalf of my own practice. I知 the one that's footed the bill at this point in time, judge, to take care of the drainage, to get that water moving away from the septic.
>> no I have learned that issues on this court may be issues before this court may be voted up or down. There are some -- there is some value in certainty. So if negotiation is likely to be productive, I would strongly recommend that. And especially if I had a substantial investment. As you apparently have.
>> would a week make a difference in your deal, jay? I mean, I mean, if -- if -- I mean, you know, ms. Allen knows, everybody in this room knows I知 to go get beyond this thing because I have -- I mean quite frankly I知 surprised to see it over here. I mean, I致e been going through this with everybody going my gosh certainly this thing has been worked out. And I guess it doesn't make any difference how many attorneys somebody has had, but I will say that I have tried to extend the olive branch to ms. Allen, I mean, I have -- I don't know you I mean other than having met you the first time, you know, a year ago out there at the project, there is a way to deal with this. I知 willing to give it one more week with the parties knowing that if you can't work it out, then willing to make the motion as the precinct 3 Commissioner and this is in precinct 3, that I think allowing you to come in -- now I would probably -- might ask you not to build the fence just so let somebody else use the other half of the road so you can come up there. If you can use the road, she can use the road. That's what needed to happen from the get-go. When the asphalt, before it was torn up, do the engineering, do the things because you knew that there was going to have to be engineering done, but unfortunately this thing has gotten so messed up because of I think quite frankly you tried to do the right thing, but I would say that if you go a week, because as the judge said, you may have some differences of opinions up here as to voting on it today, but if we can't get it done in a week, then I知 willing to make a motion --
>> what county staff person can facilitate, mediate, help reconcile this matter?
>> we have experts in -- in engineering and knowledge of the situation, so can he with probably -- we can probably -- any number of two or three individuals on my staff that can probably attend these sessions.
>> we may have taken 15 seconds of your minutes, mr. Johnson, any closing short statement?
>> judge, we will continue to work on it. I hope we can get it resolved.
>> we're talking one week. My advice would be, you know, make it productive. We are down here trying to do the right thing. Residents out there would be affected by the decision one way or the other. I think it makes all of the sense in the world to give it one last 100 -- 110% effort to try to reach some sort of -- not everybody will be happy. But it's kind of cheating middle ground here that everybody can live with would be my recommendation. 06 seconds apiece, ms. Williams.
>> I would just like to quickly say ms. Allen's house does have a driveway in front of her house. That has access on park that's paved. And that -- that the Travis County does have a [indiscernible] to show if you are going to live in the house, a homestead exemption, if your homestead is in one place in Travis County, you can't be homesteaded in another. If the cost is what we are talking about, if the house is for sale anyway, that cost of improving that road can be added to the cost of that property. And that road was being used when it was paved before. And there was no -- no one was complaining about drainage. All of a sudden now that it's been pulled up and moved over, now there's a complaint. That road was there. Ms. Allen put that road in and they were using that road. So it wasn't a $40,000 -- I know she didn't spend $40,000 to put that little gravel they put there. They were using that road, there wasn't a drainage problem.
>> thank you, ms. Williams.
>> mr. Martin.
>> yes, I want to reiterate that the developers and things make the grade that you have there now actually putting in the septic, putting in the butane, you know, the propane tanks and stuff underground and running the plumbing and stuff to the house, moving the rocks, that was during their in the road, you know, physically. Taking down the wall up against the -- the pavement that's -- and the tree -- and the cedar tree that's in the street, you know, when they were having disagreements to put it mildly. And just to open up the road where they feel as though okay the road is open, you have drainage down there on park, you can park in front of each one's house, and I知 sure that if somebody sees parking in front of their own homes, I知 sure that the cars will keep going. But I don't see a solution by vacating the street for -- for a house that's not even on the street. The house is on park. And basically, that's going to affect us on cedar street tremendously. And I just hope, you know, that they can work it out some kind of way. The fence, you know, being put up is one that we fenced off cedar street and the corner of hughs and thomas and nothing could get through to their homes unless there was a gate. I mean that's just -- I don't want to make light of it, but it's kind of ridiculous. So it would be, you know, really conducive to just open up the street, you know, all the way to park. And it wouldn't be that costly. The street is already graded. You know, if you need fill, it's not going to take that much fill. You know, it's rocks. You know, it's solid bedrock there. And that's basically all that I have to say.
>> move that public both hearings be closed.
>> second.
>> discussion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. Now we call up action item no. 7 a and b, which are worded the same way as public hearings 1 and 2 are worded. Commissioner?
>> judge, I mean, I would move that we postpone it until give it one week to work out, bring it back next week and we will see if we have a solution. If not I will be ready to make a recommendation for a motion next week as to how to move this thing along.
>> we will have 7 a and b on the court's agenda next week. I would -- I would appreciate the parties coming together and really trying to resolve these issues. I don't know that living through the history will help, it has not helped today. But if we can take the facts as they are and try to figure out a solution that -- that the affected residents can live with, then I think it will be a win-win. Joe, if -- you need the names and phone numbers of those interested in focusing on resolving this problem between now and Tuesday. So the meeting likely will be Thursday -- Thursday or Friday of this week?
>> yes, we will try to set up before the end of the week.
>> it can be out near cedar street.
>> certainly. If we can find any safe place, yes [laughter]
>> west side service center.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 10:24 AM