Travis County Commissioners Court
May 31, 2005
Item 9
9 is to consider and take appropriate action on resolution of issues regarding social services contract with sickle cell anemia association.
>> judge, Commissioners, what is being distributed to you I think is a copy of a document you received by e-mail, and I wasn't sure whether or not you had had an opportunity to review it, but it is a document prepared by the county attorney's office relative to this contract. And pursuant to previous e-mails and discussions that we've had relative to this contract, the sickle cell anemia association has had a social services contract with us for several years. And the department has been in a position to work with the sickle cell anemia association to reconcile its invoices so that they would conform to the needed documentation to have the agency be paid. I would say my experience over the last 10 months or so with the agency has not been one of a question of whether services were provided. It is clear to the department that services have been provided by the vendor. The issues, I believe, is that this is a grass-roots agency. There is limited staff and limited staff expertise available which has put them in a position of being unable to provide documentation that we would normally expect for -- for invoices for us to reimburse. Several county staff including the county judge have participated in meetings with the agency to discuss our concerns about their documentation. The county attorney's office has also been present, and after many, many months of trying to reconcile issues with the contract and their ability to meet the contract terms, the county attorney's office has made a recommendation that the department feels would be both in the best interest of the county as well as the association.
>> to do what?
>> that would be to settle with the agency and terminate the contract. That would enable us to redirect the funding to our public health interlocal with the city of Austin which would at that point take the lead for us on disease surveillance and support in the community in the sickle cell area.
>> so what you are suggesting, what's mentioned is that we terminate the relationship between the sickle cell anemia association that currently exists, and unfortunately I guess the person that was heading this up, mark thomas, of course, he passed away.
>> that's correct.
>> and I mean he was a dynamic young man. Glad I had a chance to know him and to -- I mean I can still remember him on the capitol steps when the postage stamp was dedicated, u.s. Postage stamp was dedicated to this particular cause. And of course as far as dealing with sickle cell in this community. I want to make sure, though, in all of these efforts that mr. Thomas expressed and all the sickle cell persons that we have here not only in Travis County but other areas that we do not divorce ourself from the necessary attention that this particular organization needs. It's been a long haul in even dealing with Travis County as far as dealing with this dreaded blood disorder. I want to make sure that doesn't happen. My concern is -- and I heard you deliberate and say, hey, this is what Travis County has done, but my question is is there anythinges to keep this thing afloat since mr. Thomas has passed on, is anybody in that particular category as far as carrying on the work that he's done because it appears that there was some attention that was not given to the sickle cell anemia program, and this is basically a lot of reason why he took it on himself. And kind of went in that direction. And I知 saying maybe in the arena where it is now, I really don't know, but I want to make sure that the assistance that's need to do ensure that the recipients and the persons that are suffering from such a disease continue to get the support from Travis County. And how do we do that?
>> it is our hope, Commissioner, that mrs. Thomas, mr. Thomas' wife, will be continuing the work of the sickle cell association, however, we don't have that -- I can't definitely say that that will occur at this moment in time. However, it's our belief that by directing our funding to our public health interlocal with the city of Austin, it provides an opportunity for them to have a couple of options with their approach to surveillance for this disease. If they choose to, they can continue to contract with the sickle cell anemia association and have them handle the disease surveillance and the outreach in the community, or they might utilize our funding along with their funding to provide the service through the public health educate thaers we employ -- educators that we employ through our interlocal agreement with the city of Austin. As you all know, the public health educators already educate the community and do outreach on various disease or community disease issues in Travis County. So I believe they have that -- they have those two options with the funding. So I believe that either way we can still count on having attention to this disease.
>> on the first part to settle up and terminate on one hand; on the other hand, to try to work with the city of Austin to ensure future services in this area.
>> that is correct.
>> Commissioner Davis, this is one of those areas that for years sort of went -- not neglected, but kind of overlooked. The healthiest person in the world today can be near death a couple of days later because of the disease. He did die from sickle cell disease?
>> yes, sir. And it was really shocking when I heard that, but again, I want to make sure that -- I haven't had a chance to talk to ms. Thomas yet. I do know that we've really got the realize what we're talking about here. These folks from the med tear rain kwrapb area, some greek populations, hispanic population, black populations are carriers of this disease, this blood disorder, and it's really devastating. And when you see the little children and others that have to endure this dreaded blood disorder, disease, it really does -- it just kind of shakes you. Again, I do not want to again -- I haven't had a chance to talk to ms. Thomas. Have you?
>> no, sir. I think that ms. Gerhard has been attempting to contact her attorney.
>> what's the deal on that?
>> again, this is for the court's discussion today, a proposal. Their attorney is out of the country for three weeks, but I have e-mail contact with her and sent her a copy of the proposal, talked to her last week before she left, and I have sent a copy of the proposal to ms. Thomas, but we haven't discussed it. We wanted the court's input. They are aware of the proposal. Then once we get the court's input, we'll go back and continue the thaegsz and bring you back something final once everything is in agreement. But wanted the court to look at the proposal first and then continue working with them.
>> judge, here's where I知 coming from. We have a lot of clients out there that were under this sickle cell anemia program, association, program. I don't really know who all the clients are. I know still purview as far as a reason as far as social services are concerned. I really would like to hear from what ms. Thomas is intended to do before we go with anything. I really want to know what's in the mix of all of these things because -- not untimely death, but the death of mr. Mark thomas kind of maybe left a void, but then again if it's going to be picked up by mrs. Thomas to carry on, I think we need to at least see what that is. Right now I don't know. And I haven't had a chance to talk to her at all since his death.
>> there are two separate issues. First issue is that there are invoices from '03 and '04 that have not been paid. No matter what the future holds, question about what to do about those invoices. Then number 2 is where do we go from here. And I agree that I think at some point we ought to get with ms. Thomas and the city and try to work everything out. Now, I had two or three meetings, I had one with the accountant who was a volunteer accountant for the association here. And had been in the acting business for a long time, was working free of charge, but he had not done work with the city of Austin or Travis County. Working with us is a little different. The other thing I think they engaged him after the fact. Whereas we had a follow-up meeting involving this association as well as other non-profits, and it does seem the me that on some of this we need to catch on day 1 rather than six months later after we've gotten two or three invoices. But I guess we have been working trying to get twao eu and '04 paid. And this vagina is about the only one we've tkpwopl up with that we think is legally sound and the auditor p- the court approves it will buy also.
>> I don't disagree with that. I知 just saying before we close the door on this, I want to make sure that the door remains open. You know, 2003 and 2004 issue being that --
>> could we address close ing this door, it would not prohibit whatever approach the court wants to take for addressing these services. The current recommendation is through the city through our public health interlocal. That don't mean you can't look at renegotiating a new contract once wee feel like -- if we felt like things were in place where that contract could be carried out and documentation provided as necessary to meet our contract requirements for all of our social services agencies. So your options aren't limited by going forward with this. It would simply allow payment and allow us to close this issue and then start new on whatever direction the court and the people involved agree to.
>> okay, and like I say, I don't have any problems on the settlement and things of that nature. I just want to make sure that the door is left open, and i'd like to definitely have an opportunity to talk to ms. Thomas and especially after the thing has been worked on so long, to try to get it off the ground.
>> try to get both of them, meaning the attorney, ms. Thomas, as well as city of Austin. Ms. Gerhard in the same room and try to figure out where we go from here that we think would be beneficial for everyone. Clearly this is an area where we need a contract in place, either city, county or both of us.
>> I would agree, thank you.
>> I agree with that, judge.
>> today we were kind of get some acceptance of strategy.
>> so we can move forward. And we will bring back whatever final proposals are agreed to again for the court's consideration and direction.
>> and I agree. We've really got two very different issues. I知 troubled by the fact that these services have been rendered and we are in agreement that services have been rendered and they've not been paid. And that's probably most difficult on the agency right at this point with all the personal stuff. We've got to get this behind us. It's also troubling that we're also about six months into a new contract and nothing has been delivered in terms of services that in terms of the expectations of clients we have not been fulfilling the expectations of folks who have sickle cell so we need to make sure we get something new in place. And I think it's just a logical conclusion that with the passing of mr. Thomas, that even if the agency survives, it's going to have to survive in a different kind of way simply because your key person is no longer at the helm. And it doesn't mean that there cannot be a new contract with new conditions and new performance measures. Ms. Thomas is going to have to figure out whether she wants to do that or not, but we've got to get the past behind us. Jose has entered the room. You know, there are accounting issues that we just need to get closure here. And then we've got the get moving on something related to six months and no services have been provided, which is also what this settlement says is nothing has happened over the last six months and so folks that need help should be getting it and if we have to go through the city as that venue and they vernal going to have the wherewithal to meet our auditing and accounting standards. And then there's still subcontracting possibilities if indeed the agency survives or we're going to have to find something else because it's something that cannot be ignored.
>> judge, it sounds to me like -- the most important thing is let's not make it personal. Mrs. Thomas, mr. Thomas, I mean the disease is the important thing here. Let's find out what the best entity to take that on. I mean I would probably be so bold as to just to ask you, sherry, who do you think needs to do this job right now that can do the best for the community that needs the help. It's ridiculous not for the people to not be getting the help that needs it I don't know -- I don't know mr. Thomas or mrs. Thomas, but all of us certainly know what sickle cell anemia is and how devastating it is to folks. So I would say, gosh, I mean let's find a way to move this thing forward. But you know what happens is I think that we get caught up in some of these social services where people have some authorship of getting something started, but, you know, unfortunately we find that people don't have the wherewithal to region it in the business sense, and you've got to run some of these things in the business sense or you can't get money from us. I mean then we get into this quantum merit stuff that everybody gets upset about, justifiably so. So I知 not -- I mean because we're dealing with east side story right now that i've gotten involved with and it's like, you know, two, three years of payments that need to get made, and what it is is it's a breakdown in what needs to happen systemicly that's more the business line of things because that's what you've got to do to get money from us. So I知 all supportive of the county's involvement in the sickle cell anemia association, but I would sure like to see -- I mean I want to see results, and I mean whoever wants to talk to ms. Thomas, but I知 afraid we might be going to somebody that, you know, for maybe the wrong reason they might want to say, well, my husband, you know, passed and I want to carry the thing forward, but that person may not have the ability to do the things that we're going to ask. So if there's somebody in place and in line that -- whether that's an interlocal agreement or whatever, I sure hope that we're -- that we have the ability to pull the trigger and make that call because that really might be the best thing for the association. But y'all know more about it than I do, but my two cents.
>> I know [inaudible] in the auditor's office also worked with us on the agency for quite a bit. Anything, jose?
>> no, I mean just looking forward to [inaudible]. [no microphone on].
>> I would like to ask this and I guess whenever you get a chance to talk to ms. Thomas or whomever is a part of this sickle cell anemia association, the clients that they were currently serving, really that's why I wanted to keep the door open.
>> sure.
>> it's some information out there as far as who they were serving, the clients. I don't want that to get lost. That's keeping the door open.
>> absolutely, Commissioner.
>> this is not closing the door, but it's just moving forward and we want everyone's suggestion. I don't think nobody is in that position. But I just want to make sure that door is left open so whoever still needs this service can still get it. So that's basically where I知 coming from.
>> yes, the department as well as the city of Austin can work with the sickle sell anemia association to determine a transition plan for the clients and to ensure that the services that they were receiving continue to be provided.
>> exactly.
>> that's certainly our responsibility.
>> all right. Thank you.
>> my motion is that we contact ms. Thomas and ms. George indicate the court's agreement to resolve the '03 and '04 claims in the manner recommended by the county attorney's office. And that the second part of our strategy is that all of the appropriate parties get together to try to figure out where we go from here.
>> i'll second the motion, judge.
>> and I guess when you come to let us know what response they have to this recommendation, if they disagree, we need to know the earliest date that they can come to court so we can try to resolve it.
>> yeah, there would have to be a work plan that we agree with because we clearly have had issues for a year and a half and nothing has happened on this contract in six months and that's not acceptable.
>> but the two movies have been, I hate to say out of commission, but not really working except in and out and mr. Thomas was out of state at one time. Both of them really were sort of doing this on their own. Then we contracted with them so as far as I know, mrs. Thomas has always been an integral part of the association anyway.
>> yes, she is on record as the executive director.
>> but I think the city pretty much joined us in the recognition that this is a serious disease for which we ought to try to do a whole lot more than we've done historically and we're both moving in the same direction. I think the city is sensitive to it and should be easy for us to get everybody in one room and try to work out today and the future.
>> other than when mr. Thomas became sick, prior to that, were there issues -- I mean was the business plan and was everything in order or does it not go back that far? Did we have history that ms. Thomas has the ability to take this thing on and to comply with the kind of things that we're going to need county-wide to make this thing happen?
>> I think that clearly we would have to knowing with ms. Thomas or whoever was at the helm about some of the contract requirements that apparently have been unclear.
>> and we will be able to tell the social services agencies through the years here that have not been in compliance and staff have worked with them. It's no big secret that there are short comings in some of the social services persons that give us our social service needs have fallen short of what we're trying to achieve here. And of course, staff, we directed staff in other things to -- you guys have come to us and said, listen, blah, blah, they are not in compliance, they are in compliance. Well, what do they need to do to get into compliance. I don't want to treat this different from other social services agencies that we have treated from this dais. As far as bringing people into compliance as we've done other social service agencies.
>> yes, sir.
>> any more discussion of the motion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, June 1, 2005 9:29 AM