Travis County Commissioners Court
April 26, 2005
Executive Session Item 43
We also have residents down on item no. 43. 43. Receive legal advice from county attorney and take appropriate action regarding claim received from tenants at the Travis County farmers market for repair of broken natural gas pipes. This is posted for consultation with attorney, also. But these -- these residents/tenants would like to address the court, give testimony for us to consider while in there. And this is -- what's the name of the barbecue business? G and g. Yes, sir. And you want to -- would you like to address us now? You are the one who called my office with the claim that resulted in this --
>> I called your office.
>> I did.
>> why, we have quite a few tenants who are here. Quincy erickson is here, the tavern folks are here. Yeah, we've got a lot of unhappy people.
>> okay. Now, the question for the county attorney to mull over, is this temper obtains to -- this temper obtains to the -- this item pertains to county farmers market for repair of broken natural gas pipes. Are we limited to comments about the broken gas pipes issue? Are all of you all here on that particular issue or here on some other issues.
>> I’m also here on some other issues, your honor.
>> does this agenda item limit us to its wording? Or are we free to branch out?
>> [indiscernible]
>> it only speaks to thenal gas lines posted right now.
>> okay.
>> but we can certainly hear testimony on the -- you just can't deliberate on it.
>> okay.
>> your name, sir, in the front row?
>> [indiscernible]
>> let me -- I do think that -- I’m sorry your name again.
>> garland earls.
>> you're the one who talked to my staff, right if.
>> no, I didn't.
>> I did. [indiscernible] I own another restaurant in the market.
>> okay. You would like to give testimony today?
>> yes, I would.
>> please come forward. Sorry about that, mr. Earles, you are here to back up --
>> yes, sir.
>> I’m about 18 days ago, a gas leak was discovered supplying gas --
>> get your name again.
>> jonathan matthews.
>> okay.
>> a gas leak was discovered supplying gas to all of the buildings. The buildings themselves and the pipes inside the buildings were not the source of the leak, but the yard lines were. The gas company came out and discontinued the gas service and removed the gas meter, so there was no gas at all to anybody in the market. We notified hill rylander about the situation, we had a meeting. He said that he would contact the county and see who was responsible for the repairs because the -- in -- the teabts in interpreting the lease agreements that we had, we felt it was the landlord's responsibility to effect those repairs. I think it was the next day, mr. Rylander notified us that the county was not there -- their feeling was it was not their responsibility. At that point we realized it was probably going to be a long-term situation before the situation was resolved. We all needed gas so the tenants decided to go ahead and start the repairs, pay for the repairs to get done, then sort it out and seek reimbursement at a later date. So my gas was turned back on yesterday. As of now I’m the only building with gas. What we are seeking is to be reimbursed. Customer traffic is reduced drastically because the parking lot was trenched and safety tape was put up, and we would like to have rent abated for the period of time that we were without gas.
>> what kind of business do you have?
>> it's a -- it's a hot dog restaurant, hot dogs, burgers, fries.
>> and so you have not gotten an invoice for the repair work, but you have received an estimate?
>> we -- all of the tenants paid half down, so far I have paid $1,250 out of pocket. Jason harvey is the general contractor, he did the repairs. We also have regulators installed on all of our gas appliances to reduce the gas pressure coming into the restaurant. So our -- my portion of the repairs to the gas lines is 2500 plus $200 for the regulators. To get repairs started, I have only paid so far out of pocket $1,250.
>> so the repairs have been made, all of them?
>> they are still ongoing.
>> do we know the total cost at this point?
>> the total cost of repairs, for the gas line itself, is going to be $10,000. Those repairs have been completed up to the buildings. The buildings themselves, some of them were required, an inspector noticed that some of them did not have -- have vent fans. Ventilation fans, so they were requiring a mechanical inspection on top of that to clear them for gas.
>> so you didn't get estimates, you went to one vendor and then hired that repairman.
>> no, we didn't get estimates. I mean, we are all operating businesses and we felt time was of the essence, we were able to get work started the next day.
>> soance to my question is -- so the answer to my question is so far $10,000, but the costs are ongoing?
>> we think that the total cost will be more than $10,000 or 10,000 will cover all of it?
>> the -- the total cost for the gas --
>> I think we will need you on mic, give us your name and how you are involved in this. Are you the repairman?
>> yes. [indiscernible] general contractor. The -- the contract was initiated through me, through the tenants originally it was $12,000, then $10,000 so that the tenants could afford to do it and go ahead and start to make repairs.
>> well, I would think at some point you would need a bill that -- that specifically described the repairs that were made. If that document is an estimate, receipts, et cetera, I know the county attorney would want to see that. We need to see that to try to figure out --
>> I do have a final bill ready for everybody for their buildings, for the gas, running to the buildings. I don't know what their -- what they are going to be required to do. Two of the buildings, the barbecue building la femme are going to be required to have mechanical inspections on top of the gas. I’m not sure if that's going to be a completely separate issue.
>> when do you think the work will be completed.
>> my work is complete as far as the gas. We just have to have the parking lot repaired, I don't have an estimate to have the parking lot repaired yet.
>> what other works need to be done, when will it be completed?
>> my guys are cleaning up the parking lot today. All of the gas lines are run, gas service was restored yesterday and -- as soon as the buildings have their individual clearances from the mechanical inspectors, as far as what they have to do individually, the -- to meet code, to allow gas service to be turned back on, they -- then their service will be back on.
>> okay.
>> so if we have additional questions about specific services, you are the person to get those questions answered.
>> yes.
>> okay. Anybody else here on a -- on a gas related problem? Quincy? Please come forward. If so.
>> is your gas related, also?
>> yes.
>> what's your problem?
>> the same one, he put the line down, but then it came in that I have to put up a vent hood. When I rented the place it was told to me that the restaurant was ready for rental for food service. It didn't even have the vent in it or anything. So that means I can't have any gas in there anymore until the venter hood is put up in there.
>> so the gas company in fact turned the gas off.
>> yes, sir.
>> and when was that?
>> ahh --
>> I think it was the -- was it a Wednesday?
>> yeah. The last Wednesday.
>> Wednesday was apri 6th.
>> the gas meter was removed?
>> so everybody's gas was effectively turned off April 6th.
>> yes. Everybody's gas is run on one meter at this complex. And that's why everybody is affected, commonly on that.
>> okay. And your gas is back on.
>> yes, it was turned on yesterday.
>> [indiscernible]
>> in our kitchen we are installing a hood, but that's going to take us probably two to three weeks.
>> and your name and the name of the business?
>> quips see erickson and -- quincy erickson, the parent business is la femme culinere, the women's kitchen. Two businesses in there, culinary travels and [indiscernible] catering.
>> you are still without gas?
>> yes, we are. But we are a catering company, so we have portable burners that we take on site, so we have been using those.
>> okay.
>> I’m steve nagel, ms. Erickson's husband, I’m a lawyer, I’m appearing here as her spouse, really. I thought you ought to know real quickly the overview. This thing came up real quickly. There are four food related businesses, all of which rely upon gas at the Travis County farmers market. Three of them were in operation and using gas at the time when this problem came up. A fourth had been in operation, that was the stone house grill, which has been taken over and is now being remodeled. It was during the course of that remodel of the building for the stone house grill, which is going to become something called I believe the brentwood tavern, that a problem with the gas lines was discovered. It appeared to be a leak and the tenants were confronted with a problem that had to be addressed immediately or the gas would be cut off. That's why this thing is brought to you in the posture that it is. That is a leak was discovered, the next day the gas was cut off. There was no time for anybody to do anything about presenting this to the Commissioners court or anybody else in a formal way to get these repairs approved in advance. That's why we are sitting here with the $10,000 bill and don't even know what the final tally really is. There are a couple of things left outstanding. The primary one is the cleaning up of the parking lot from the county's point of view. There is an issue about fixing the regulators in here. These businesses did not require regulators in the gas line that existed before and as a result of this change in the gas line, they now are going to be put in a position where they have to have regulators and that is something that's created by the general repair, done by the landlord, the county, or mr. Rylander and the county, on the county's behalf.
>> so the regulators are required by --
>> the gas line did not -- was not a high pressure gas line before. The gas line has been upgraded for the brentwood tavern to be a high pressure gas line. That requires all of the other businesses to have regulators in order to reduce the pressure for their kitchen. Those regulators were not required before until the landlord in this case, upgraded the line and required the regulator. So that regulator expense is something that --
>> are the regulators required by gas company, city of Austin --
>> I don't know the answer to that question.
>> required by both the gas company and the city of Austin under code, sir.
>> pursuant to city code?
>> uniform plumbing code. And --
>> are -- you will share that -- you will share that code with john hilly is the guy sitting next the column, he's not nearly as mean as he looks today. But he's the one that will review that for us.
>> I do have a letter from the gas company with me --
>> if they require it, they require it.
>> generally if you do any kind of work, you get upgraded to the new code. [multiple voices]
>> have to be upgraded.
>> yes, sir, are you with them, also?
>> I’m peter donovan, also an attorney, representing my wife, abigale huffman another member of the la femme culinare. It was represented to us that the county Commissioners rejected any responsibility under the let's for this matter. That's why the tenants took it upon themselves to go forward, one of the reasons, time being another. And that the tenants did have the approval of your agent, to go forward with these repairs and act by themselves. They did have that consent.
>> what member of the court allegedly said no?
>> that I could not tell you. That's an issue.
>> that's one of the interesting things here judge because the -- clearly the Commissioner never met -- never met to be able to tell you know. And in fact I think I talked to a couple of you at the table here that basically said we'll get this all sorted out, but we never said no. Our agent may have said they said no, but this thing has not been presented to us. This is our first opportunity to help sort out all of the issues in this in terms of -- they may have impressions as to who is responsible, but there are other overriding legal documents between us and our agent that could also give us some insight as to who is supposed to pay this bill.
>> I had a long argument as to why Travis County has the -- as the landlord is responsible, but I will spare you that since you are clearly still thinking about it.
>> that doesn't mean there's a chargeback to somebody else. There may be something this way, but that doesn't mean there's not something that way. Subrogation. [multiple voices]
>> we have not taken action on this because it was not presented to us. I had to put it on the agenda for the Commissioners court to consider. That got us here today.
>> we appreciate on behalf of the catering company and the other tenants the speed with which the court has taken this up.
>> there may well be other tenants here who would like to give comments. Then we will hear from you, mr. Rylander. Yes, sir. If you all could -- are you the only one left?
>> I’m the owner of brent wood tavern.
>> that's one. Anybody here from another business that would like to give testimony today? Trying to figure out how many chairs we need? One more? Okay.
>> yes, sir?
>> your name?
>> my name is timothy thomas, I’m the owner of brentwood tavern. Okay. Just to fill in a little bit, the -- I’m sorry, I forgot your name, steve, he mentioned about the gas line. That was -- the reason the gas company required it to be upgraded on top of the fact that it was leaking was because it was also a residential meter. So according as I was told according to the law that meter was supposed to only be connected to one building, which the first connection was la femme, it wasn't supposed to be going anywhere else because there wasn't enough pressure to get gas to everybody else. I guess the first mention, we had our first inspections come in, they were actually advised that our pilot lights were -- excuse me, I’m not used to speaking in public -- a light on our stoves. So upon further inspection, they also notified us that our building had been red tagged, which meant basically that we weren't allowed to use it. I understood when I took this lease, that it was a functioning restaurant and I was ready to move in and basically start my operations with the resources that I had at the time, otherwise I couldn't have afforded to do what I’m doing now. Then I think I mentioned a brief summary of everything else that I have in the letter that I presented, I faxed to mr. Smith. It just basically a general summary, really. There's -- there's of course a lot in between all of this stuff. But I tried to present it as clearly as I could. Without taking up a book, I guess.
>> quincy, I have one more question because you and I visited when this whole mess occurred. I thought that I remembered you telling me that during this whole situation, when people were legitimately trying to pull permits to do the repairs, they were finding that no permits had ever been pulled on some of the stuff that they were finding during the repairs. Can you fill us in on any of that?
>> fine. Well, I watched what happened with the barbecue guys who came in after [indiscernible] and there was evidently the barbecue restaurant has I guess three -- two buildings, one of the buildings had a side building attached to it. That evidently the city didn't know about. So he -- I guess he had trouble getting a certificate of occupancy. The dog almighty people had some problems but they can address that, I don't know what they were.
>> I can kind of fill that in a little bit actually. They and jonathan could probably back me up on this that they actually couldn't open for business until my establishment was closed down, so they basically had to separate the gas line from my building and his building because my building was red tagged because we were all on that one line. As we started to do work on the building, we of course tried to get everything properly permitted as we were doing our remodeling or construction, we soon found out there had never been any building permits on that building and that the city actually believed that the building was 800 square feet, whereas I think my lease says 2500 square feet. So now I’m paying for that. I don't know what to say really about that. But --
>> I did pull a -- may he peak, judge? I did pull a -- found 31 permit that I can submit to the court for the past since 1985. I believe it says here. There has never been a permit pulled for the brentwood tavern or previous stone house grill except for the remodel on the existing restaurant. That does not cover any mechanical, plumbing or electrical permits that you would be required to have inside that building. I have had to have architectural drawings in order to -- just to keep the equipment that we have in there and still making this -- making us remove the hood and everything that they said bass a higher hazard being in the building. As it were. Because they have never been properly permitted when they were put in.
>> they refers to the city of Austin or -- is this Texas gas?
>> the city of Austin.
>> the city of Austin's permits, yes, sir.
>> okay.
>> so how many of these businesses is in a position to open for you.
>> we are open.
>> you caterers, but you are not able to use the gas there.
>> no. We are using little portable burners, which are not quite as good as the burners that we had.
>> but gas will be available to all of these tenants when?
>> gas is available now, sir. It's run to all of their buildings. Just shut off at a cutoff at their building. I was told to cap it off at the buildings in order to -- just so that the -- the dog almighty may have their gas back on.
>> the other two buildings are not up to code. The gas can't be reconnected until they effect repairs and bring their buildings up to code.
>> when will that happen? Are you the one that does that.
>> I’m not a contractor.
>> we have people putting in a vent for us and doing all of that. We are installing a vent hood with fire --
>> you think that will happen in a few days?
>> no, no. Probably three weeks. It takes a couple of weeks to get through the city with all of your permits and then having them installed. It will be a little while.
>> I have been trying to do this for about three months now. So still not open. And it looks like it's still going to be another three weeks before I can even think about opening. You know, basically, we are building a new building there because we are having to pull permits on every single thing in that building.
>> in terms of representations that have been made about what the condition of any of these buildings and all of the infrastructure, did anybody from Travis County have any conversations with you about what -- what it is that you were signing on to or were all of your conversations with mr. Rylander? In terms of the representations.
>> mr. Rylander.
>> rylander.
>> mr. Rylander.
>> mr. Rylander, rylander, rylander.
>> you and I talked at one point.
>> that was after the fact. But in the original in terms of, you know, what are you signing on to, all of your business arrangements have been with mr. Rylander.
>> we actually subleased the space before we actually took over as lease tenants.
>> you had the old sweetie pies place.
>> yeah.
>> [indiscernible]
>> we have been there, la bouche for six months, abigale was in there for another year and a half. I don't know, hill, how long was she in there, do you remember? We have been in there as the leaseholders for three years.
>> speaking of mr. Rylander, why don't we make a seat available for him.
>> thank you, I -- I really am here just to answer questions I suppose more than anything else. I would like to address the fact that the Commissioners court had not met, but on April 6th, the day that the tenants indicated we had a meeting to decide what to do about the gas line. I said that -- that I was not in a position to make a decision, but I would have to call. So I called the county attorney's office and talked to mr. -- the tenants were still in the meeting and everybody waitinged and -- waited and I called and talked to mr. Hilly, told him basically what the problem was and that we were in a real serious dilemma, the tenants have got to be able to operate. He called back shortly thereafter and said that he and mr. Escomilla met and it was not a problem the county had to address, but I should feel to proceed with the tenants what needed to get done but it was not the county's obligation. That's what stirred, that's why after that conversation, that they agreed that they would go ahead and begin anyway. And try to get it resolved later.
>> that was about April 6th.
>> the 6th or 7th. The day just before the gas was turned off. Maybe April the 5th.
>> do you have anything to add to the record with regard to permits being pulled or anything about renovations being made in the past or any maintenance that's occurred on this property?
>> I can try Commissioner Sonleitner. Eggs an enigma, I was told jason -- I’m sorry. Indicated to me that brentwood tavern would not be allowed to keep the bathrooms that had just been installed by stone house grill. The stone house grill had those restrooms approved by the city. Jason advised me that the city says there's not true because they are not a.d.a. I said I remember the discussion with the city because the county had put in an a.d.a. Restroom in the back. And we have operated for the past 17 years without having to require that and jason said well that was never a.d.a. Approved and those were your plans drawn up much that's the reason that it was put in. It is an a.d.a. Approved restroom. I’m -- apparently he says, I haven't talked to the city inspector, that the -- that demanded it but they had to rip out all of the bathrooms in brentwood tavern and replace them with additional handicapped disabled a.d.a. Restrooms. I don't know if the city lost their records. I know that i've walked through that property time after time with inspectors, health inspectors, department inspectors, certificates of occupancy and the city says they have no clue. And I just don't know. I don't know where all of this information is coming from. I don't know how it occurred. I think we have had tenants for 17 years, in and out of those buildings, they said they have never even had a certificate of occupancy. And that's just not -- that can't be. But I -- I’m not at the city. I don't have the record book.
>> the problems with the gas pressure, gas lines, inside and outside, surfaced for the first time --
>> yes, sir, never in 17 have been surfaced. I’m not sure I guess because the upgrade with brentwood, what they had to do was upgrade to a different pipe size and they never had tested the line underground. They tested the -- the power to each building and it was holding, so the buildings were all in compliance. But it was underground that there was a leak. And that had occurred at some point in 17 years. But it had never been tested so -- so we didn't know.
>> what have you responded to the tenants in relation to any requests that they have made about abating, reducing, eliminating certain rent that is due to you for property that they -- in terse of the full use of the the -- in terms of the full use of the property. Clearly they have not had the full use and enjoyment of this property as promised and paying for. What if any adjustments have you made in their leases or rent due or dollars owed since you have been made aware of all of this?
>> Commissioner, I’m not really in the position of the contract that they have signed with the Commissioners court addresses that issue that I don't believe there's any wiggle space for that. They have to pay the rent and the rent says it must be repaired.
>> the representings to you -- the renting -- the rent goes to you and --
>> Commissioner, I’m 65 years between that and death. If you can't be more professional than the last two times i've been down here. Judge bus expose and -- I’m awfully sorry, but I’m going to leave. The contract says what the contract says.
>> it does, sir. It talks about how you were supposed to provide professional services and you clearly are not.
>> may I present some pictures. I don't know if anybody has ever been out there in 17 years that represents the county except for hill. So I’m --
>> yes. I live right around the corner.
>> we have been there. The gas lines problem is new, I had no idea until the phone call. So we will be happy to take the pictures. Now, what we need to do is chat with the -- county attorney in executive session about exactly what the contract says and where liability for different things is placed my guess is we will have responses for you when we come out of executive session and my guess is it will take us 45 minutes to an hour. So -- so you are welcome to stay in this courtroom or -- or see this beautiful building, other parts of it. I doubt that we would be back before 3:00 and chances are somewhere between 3:00 and 3:30. Is my guess. Yes, sir?
>> as far as the issue, the bathrooms that mr. Hill brought up, I did take, sketch the -- a sketch of the drawings down to the city. According to current a.d.a. Code, I don't know what it was back then when they were built to current a.d.a. Code. They are not compatible. The stalls need to be 48 inches and they were only 36 inches. For -- for one thing being -- door sizes and everything. Stall sizes on those. They also would not pass a health inspection, the ceilings are falling down, the bathrooms have broken windows and the --
>> this is -- I would think, we have a facilities department. And had those been brought to our attention, we would have at least gotten our facilities staff involved. Not that we would necessarily have done the work, but we would have known what the issues were, we would negotiate with the city, too. What we needed to do we will get done.
>> yes, sir.
>> you know. I can understand on the gas line if you try to operate a business and the gas people are saying fix this before you use it, it goes off right now, I mean, I kind of wish you had gotten three bids but you didn't. And it may well be that this would have been the lowest anyway. So I’m sort of beyond that. But the contract will remind us on exactly whose responsibility it is to cover that cost. There are other damages described here that go way beyond that. But the other question is if the contract authorized you to use a certain facility beginning on a certain date, and a serious problem like this enables you to open but not really use it, then it seems to me that -- that something ought to be done to offset that. And so we will get a legal opinion on that while in executive session, also. The other thing that we have, though, is that we do have a posting here that kind of limits us to the gas related issues for action, I think. That's not to say that we cannot have a separate posting in the future to deal with some of the other issues that are here.
>> I would like to address one thing. Maybe irrelevant, but just to straighten something out. In my building that we are in that we occupy, originally when we took over the lease there were three of us and we all three got a certificate of occupancy. So it had been looked at by the city and given a go ahead by them. For three different people. Two of the businesses are still in there. This is the first time that they have come along and said we didn't fit the fire code or that we are posing a health and safety problem.
>> some of this is a little difficult to understand.
>> you know, I don't have -- I don't have a problem with understanding it. I just -- it's -- but we have been in there operating with very good health reports.
>> six months and two years.
>> for three years.
>> three years, July will be three careers that we actually have that. We had a certificate of occupancy even before we took over, abigale for -- for probably four and a half years and la bouche for three and a half years.
>> this management agreement was signed you think 15 years ago. You are right, we are not out there regulating except maybe Commissioner Sonleitner.
>> I wanted to straighten it out that we do have a certificate of occupancy, we have been looked at by the city, you know, in the last three years with three different businesses and been granted that co. So --
>> okay.
>> judge, the only clarification that I would make is this is a property that clearly is not under the management of our facilities department because clearly if it had been we would have had a lot of these issues brought to our attention related to mold and broken windows and gas lines and all sorts of other things that go on on this property. But very clearly we have a management agreement with mr. Rylander that lays out who is responsible and who is the point person out there. And I just want to read one sentence: the agent, rylander investment company, agrees to furnish the services of its organization to exert its best efforts and to exercise the highest degree of professional skill and competence in managing the premises in order to provide the owner with an economic return from the premises consistent with proper management and the ultimate goal to provide a quality service at an affordable price for the public in the marketing of produce, yada, yada, yada. So we have vested a lot of our oversight in mr. Rylander, who --
>> any significant improvement to any county facility, especially where the costs may come to Travis County, we would want our facilities people to go out and take a look at it and short of that we would want a consultant to go out -- [multiple voices] we have done that for more than a decade and in my view we would have done it to this one.
>> [multiple voices]
>> mr. Rylander has not told us when things like this occur out at the property. We usually find out about it after bad things happen.
>> in addition to the two items that we have already discussed, we will discuss the following items in executive session…
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:40 AM