Travis County Commissioners Court
January 4, 2005
Item 4
4. Receive briefing from fire marshal and take appropriate action on adoption of a new fire code for Travis County.
>> good afternoon. I thank you for your patience and understanding. We ended up going until about 12:30, this -- we knew it would take some time. We do not know that the one called up at 9:30 would take as long as it did. We appreciate with you -- you working with us on that scheduling matter.
>> any time, judge.
>> my name is [indiscernible] Travis County fire marshal. With me is danny hobby emergency services coordinator of Travis County and on my left is lynn biggs, from the fire marshal's office. Also present today is chief john smith with esd number 4, Travis County fire patrol and [indiscernible] with t.n.r. Permits manager. I will give you a brief history, on Thursday, April 22nd, 2004, the fire marshal's business plan, which included the adoption of the fire code which was at the Commissioners court on Tuesday the 11th, 2004, you the Commissioners court approved the basic concept of the fire marshal's business plan and authorized the purchase of necessary equipment to support a county-wide fire data repository system and associated software. During the fy '05 budget hearings and process, you the Commissioners court approved three additional f.t.e.s, full time employees, required with implementation and adoption of the fire code. Today we come before you to advise that over the past seven months, a collaborative effort of the commercial building communities, the 13 emergency services districts/fire departments and the city of Austin have agreed to documentation and amendments required for the adoption of the national fire code as the fire code for Travis County. Which this is it. As known in the agenda packet, a public hearing, adoption of the fire code is scheduled for Tuesday January 11th, 2005, at 9:00 a.m. Here in the Commissioners court and we anticipate formal adoption of the fire code on Tuesday January 18th, 2005, providing all goes well. The purpose of the fire code is to protect and promote the public health, safety and welfare of the residents of Travis County. By requiring permits of construction of commercial structures, establishments and public buildings in unincorporated Travis County and to impose standards to protect the lives of property of the general public. As an urban county we are embarking on a comprehensive mechanism to ensure that all of the citizens of Travis County can be assured to be fire safe in any commercial public building located in this county. This fire code does not apply to private residences. Upon action being taken regarding item 26 of today's agenda as well as the items scheduled for January 11th and 18th 2005 the fire marshal's office will continue [indiscernible] fire code and fire marshal's business plan. You, Commissioners court, are given authority to adopt a county-wide fire code, per Texas local government code chapter 233 and to be enforced in incorporated Travis County. The Travis County fire marshal's office will enforce the fire code. If someone is going to construct a commercial establishment or public building they are required to obtain the permit. There are two exceptions to the fire -- two exemptions under state law. First is industrial facility which has afire brigade and the second is a building on which the construction began before the adoption of this code. Again, we hope that -- the fact that they will be January 18th, 2005 of this year. Amendments made to the fire code, this document, to meet the needs of local area, including the emergency services districts, the county fire departments, to comply with state law and to equate where possible to the city of Austin. The application procedure is a replica of one that you have already approved on prior measures per the county attorney's office, fees, reasonable fees to defray the cost of administering this chapter of the fire code. If there's an appeal to the decision, that appeal would come to you the Commissioners court first and if someone wanted to appeal your decision, they would appeal it to the district court.
>> are there any questions?
>> what's that, yeah, let me have one. How would that fit into commercial structures that are -- that exist already, this -- this permitting process is just applicable to new construction for commercial properties or are there a grandfathering aspect in this or how would it work?
>> yes, unless a business changed, did some major modification to the existing structure, then they would have to follow the rules of the fire code. But anything built prior to that --
>> okay, okay, okay, okay.
>> simon, the -- the operative word there is key. I mean, the way the thing reads, you don't have to have much of a key change. I mean, unless i've read that wrong, I mean, you would then become -- have to become compatible to the new fire code; shatter? What do you differentiate between. That's always a deal that when I was in business here that -- that, you know, almost if you changed a door lock, I mean, it was kind of like, I mean,, you know, now you fall under, you know, this new deal. Let's make sure that everybody understands that.
>> more than 50%. Major renovation.
>> so it has to be over 50% of the original value of what was built to begin with? If you built a $100,000 building, if you were going to renovate, it was 50,000 less -- less than 50,000, then you wouldn't have to?
>> dollars or square foot?
>> it's by the design of the building. If you are going to change the major design of the building, 50% of the current design you would have to follow the new code. If you are doing the major -- any major renovation is going to end up being expensive if you are changing the way the physical structure is so you could -- that would work by your example just because the dollar amount involved. So is it fooj or is it dollar amount? Sometimes those don't coincide. If you are building a shed, you know, I mean, it may be 50% -- if you are pouring a slab, like a fire station might have where you wanted to put something out that wasn't totally enclosed, is it really dollar amount or is it size of the building.
>> well, that's -- those shed type of buildings are exempt, so it has to be a commercial structure that's like a -- like a shopping mall or something like that, a grocery shore to a skating rink, make some major renovations, make sure that the proper exits are there, proper lighting is there, that type of information, done on a case-by-case basis.
>> when walls are torn out, sheetrock removed, original configuration, occupancy type, use, changed, they would have to be repermitted through that occupancy. The structure of the building itself, means of egress, all components for fire protection would have to be reelevated.
>> how would there be -- I guess I知 sorry I didn't mean to cut you off Commissioner, but I have a follow up question to the one I last came out with. I guess what I知 trying to get down to, here's a person that has a commercial structure. They grandfathered in fact on this situation -- of course on this situation, but the question that I need to get to, the answer that I need to get to this particular question is how will that be monitored or the person out there that really likes to monitor or upgreat their commercial structure be notified this is the process they have to go through, whatever percentage, 50 percent or whatever of the modification of that commercial property, they are really needing, they need to at that time acquire a permit. I guess my question is with all of the commercial property structures that we have out there, how would they be notified that they have to comply when they may not be aware that this is what we are doing here today or they need to look at it as far as modification efforts in the future, how will we notify that?
>> there's a twofold there.
>> okay, thanks.
>> one, we are going to have a three month period of doing public announcements, getting information out to the public, fire code, now these are the -- the regulations requirements and also that's why we partner with esd's, they see things going on in their district, they will contact -- contact the local fire department, saying hey we are needing these changes, this is being done, it's a two-way street for both of us to make sure that people get --
>> violation also of it okay it will be okay -- that was the end of my follow-up question.
>> fire plug, tell me what simon has to happen -- are there necessity was regard to -- obviously we know out in the county we really don't have fire flow because we have water, most of it on wells unless they have some sort of a central system. What ramifications are there with the fire code.
>> this code allows for broad use of building materials to -- to a design to ensure the safety whether or not you have a sprinkler system. So using this code, builders, contracts, architects, to design a building that is going to be fire safe and not need to have the fire flow regulations of the sprinkler system that you are requiring.
>> doesn't allow --
>> yes.
>> you still can do that.
>> yes.
>> you just need to comply with these kind of building standards in order to take that on.
>> yes, sir.
>> for example, amount active water sources, standing water tanks, reservoirs, compartmentalization, to break it down from smaller to larger, for comparativeization of the fire, you don't have to have the sprinklers. There are various modifications to address those problems.
>> when we say public buildings we include schools.
>> yes, ma'am.
>> can we make sure that there is a proper outreach to every school district within the county because a lot of times we want to make sure that they know about that so they can figure that fee into their construction documents.
>> yes, ma'am. And they currently have to do that anyway because every school district has to adopt a code, which now they use ours, they did that in years past, that's already been figured into most of the buildings.
>> I know that we've had situations before where somebody has come in saying, yes, come in, take a look at the school, find out the recommendations from the fire marshal's office were not one that's they had to comply with because we did not have the fire code in place. So this will mean the follow-up in terms of what was already happening, that they will have to go -- just [indiscernible]
>> I noticed the international fire code is dated 2003, but that is the latest version.
>> that is correct, judge. And we as a local adopter have the authority to amend that, yes, can we supplement those provisions with additional ones that we -- that we think are not well addressed in that one?
>> yes, sir, your honor, we have done that as part of your packet in the fire code. There's a section, subchapter b --
>> that's our effort to make it better.
>> yes, sir.
>> and consistent.
>> and consistent, yes, ma'am.
>> so you are hoping that we have a -- a public hearing and then adopted effective immediately? A week after the public hearing?
>> that -- yes, sir and we will -- but we will not -- we will actively enforce it for six months, for three months to give the public time to get used to the --
>> let them notify --
>> we will have it up on our website, other issues, where it's easy for the building contractors and owners to get information.
>> okay. But if you've -- if you found with us something indicating construction plans during that three month period, see what I知 saying, you have not started but we found out in fact you are building -- maybe we approved a subdivision and you have a commercial facility going up in the middle of a residential subdivision, so the commercial facility would be covered, so during that three-month period, though, would we expect you to start complying whenever you start constructing?
>> that's correct, sir. They would have to submit the permits. Now the plan reviews we will be doing the inspections -- is what's going to be delay, we don't go out and sort of inspect for three months, the plans, we will go ahead and review those because that building is going to be constructed, want to make sure that it's built correctly.
>> that will be clear in our education materials?
>> yes, sir.
>> judge, do we need to officially set a public hearing for next Tuesday?
>> actually, we have --
>> I know that you had a notice in the back.
>> we can do that. But if it's on the agenda, I consider it officially set.
>> not a problem. Didn't know if you needed an official take on that.
>> judge, barbara wilson I think, the attorney --
>> in relation to the question that you asked about local changes to the international fire code --
>> speak into the mic there, I know you have many fans out there in tv land that want to hear you [laughter]
>> the -- the local government code for counties to aadopt a fire code indicates that we can adopt a code that is a nationally recognized code, the national fire code being one of the one that's can be adopted. We don't have the option to tinker with that from the standpoint of what the Commissioners court may want to do. However we are in our order limiting the application of that international fire code so that it is limited to the authority that's granded to counties under the local government code because the international fire code does in fact include single family residences and other types of residential structures and when you look at the legislative history of what was -- what is in the local government code and what is -- what is the wording that's in it we don't have the authority to control residential structures and so -- so what we have done in our order is limit the code to our authority. But we don't have the authority to -- to -- to decide it would be nice if x were done and that's not in the code but we would like to do it. We can't go that far. We can only pick things out of the code that we don't have the authority to cover.
>> now, a very observant observer will want to know if buildings are covered by the international fire code, what covers my home and my new residential subdivision in the unincorporated area of Travis County.
>> if a new subdivision is going in, they will submit the site plans to t.n.r. And we would review the site plans for that to make sure that that was -- the streets are wide enough, fire trucks have access, emergency access to it. But your proof of residence, unfortunately the state does allow us to, currently to enforce this code on a private residence. So --
>> we can't. Nobody else does.
>> no, sir.
>> so the home itself.
>> no.
>> so the infrastructure may be subject to --
>> actually, local government code does not give the county the authority in relation to residences, but I believe that esd's have the authority to adopt fire codes that have in fact exercised the right to do that. They believe that they have the authority and the attorneys seem to believe it --
>> I知 sure they have the authority. [laughter]
>> that's what I知 saying. I知 making an assumption here, I知 not giving a legal opinion on that one because I haven't checked it [laughter]
>> maybe I asked the wrong question.
>> but as far as I know, their authority is not limited to not conferring residential, they may in fact be covered by esd fire codes that cover residential areas. But I don't know whether they do or not. Seem Monday do you know what the practical situation is there?
>> private residences are not.
>> there are only a few statements in the country that do have codes for private residences. New york state does, in the northeast part of the country but not in the south.
>> if your home is in -- in let's say the city of Austin, city of Austin does cover it, right.
>> yes.
>> the city of Austin hasn't adopted the international fire code, I have forgotten the name of it, it's another code tied to the building code, it's a combination of the fire code and building code together that's much more restrictive and covers the residential.
>> yeah.
>> maybe there's not a need for it anyway.
>> I don't want to be that restrictive --
>> okay.
>> anything further?
>> unless you do?
>> this is a fascinating new territory. [laughter]
>> all right. Thank you. So notice we do have a public hearing already scheduled for -- for next Tuesday, January 11th at 9:00 a.m., We posted that on this week's agenda and it will be posted for next week, too. The intention of the hearing is to give residents an opportunity to come down and give comments on the international fire code if they have any. Now, for those who want information of what's in the fire code, blah blah blah, there's like an executive summary they can obtain?
>> we have provided one, we can get one to the media, get one to some outlets to get a look at it. Plus they can -- they can give access on the internet, information on the code.
>> okay. They can check the county website.
>> yes.
>> or they can phone.
>> 854-4621, our office.
>> how many pages is it?
>> it's -- it's about --
>> several hundred.
>> 400.
>> but the summary is --
>> the summary is a couple of pages long [laughter]
>> the summary is the highlights page. [laughter]
>> nice dodge there.
>> repeat that number.
>> 854-4621.
>> okay.
>> thank you all.
>> anything further on this item?
>> thank you very much, thank you very much for your pay shengs, we know that -- thank you very much for your patience.
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Last Modified:
Tuesday, January 5, 2005 8:16 AM