Travis County Commssioners Court
June 1, 2004
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Item 18
18, do we have mr. Wheeler here on 18? 18. Consider and take appropriate action regarding proposal to consolidate the road and bridge satellite offices in precincts one and four into one eastside service center. I知 joe gieselman with the t.n.r. We have the last two and a half to two years been looking at ways to improve efficiencies in the operation of the [indiscernible] office. About a year ago, we consolidated our west side satellite offices. Traditionally, these are [indiscernible] boundaries, we've had one in every precinct. But probably for the last decade, we have been consolidated operations -- consolidating operations so a lot of our road and bridge operations now are county-wide. There's some division of labor, but it's not necessarily by -- by precinct boundaries. And we have found that we can consolidate our precinct offices and gain some economy of scale and more efficient see by eliminating efficiency by eliminating duplication of equipment, by being able to dispatch one office, improve communications. We have already consolidated our precinct 2 and 3 office on the west side of the county and are now operating out of one west side service center. We have discussed doing the same thing on the east side by consolidating what is now the precinct 1 and the precinct 4 office. Precinct 4 offices on onion creek, off of 183, a very old road and bridge office, much of that property is in the 100 year floodplain of onion creek, that in and of itself has been a -- kind of a problem and a reason for us to be looking for another satellite office. We also have a -- have a facility at precinct 1 on johnny morris road. Relatively I guess in -- built well over a decade ago, we are now talking about consolidating those two precinct offices, one east side service center that would be located on a piece of property that the county already owns on blue bluff road. We call it the turkey farm. Large piece of --
>> turkeys when we acquired it, it used to be a turkey farm, right? As you say, we haven't made the best use of it, I think probably this would be one good use of the property. It certainly is available for other uses, but this is very centrally located from that side of town. Right off of f.m. 969, off of 973. It will be just a block away from the future state highway 130, it gives us pretty good regional access to all of that -- all of that eastern side of the county. What we have -- what we propose to do is sell the satellite 1 and satellite 4 office to help offset the cost of building a new -- a new east side service center on the property there on blue bluff road. We are also in the process to economize on the pieces of equipment. But foregoing some of the equipment purchases we can also receive and help offset the cost of consolidation. Actually, let me -- let me have time to -- [indiscernible] some logistics of what the -- what the [indiscernible] [papers shuffling - audio interference] as far as road and bridge operations.
>> good morning. Don [indiscernible] with road and bridge.
>> good morning, don.
>> I apologize for being a little late. The -- the consolidation is not only just a -- just a -- just satellites 1 and 4, we are also talking about smith road, which is entailing of the fleet. We are also talking about consolidating the fleet at the new site. We will be at the smith road we currently have a -- have a vehicle shop that takes care of mainly the sheriff's department and some of the smaller departments. The -- we are talking about combining all of the vehicles -- all of the vehicle fleet operations at the new east service center. We will -- like I said, we will combine all of our operations as we are now. We are basically taking care of the entire east side out of precincts 1 and 4. Current yard. We are taking care of precincts 2, 1 and 4, mainly out of those yards. Our paving operation is still county-wide, which is out of west service center. I guess that's -- that's the main functions of this are -- main issues in this. We are -- as joe said, we were talking about the fleet replacement out of the '04, we are holding off on purchasing our '04 right now because there are some replacement vehicles that we can hold off on with this consolidation. The future equipment eliminations are duplications of equipment, such as grade alls. Right now I have four grade alls on each side. I can cut that down to at least three. The -- so that is part of the fleet savings. As I said, the satellite sales, satellite offices, we have folks that are interested in that. These are estimates that we put together from our own officers. And the site work is the -- is the value of that site work, 200,000, we are proposing in this is the difference between what -- what I feel that my county forces can do this with, this site work, instead of going out and bidding the site work out. So there is a cost in this of county, I知 saying to bid this out, the site work out would cost about $450,000. I知 saying we can do it in-house for about 250,000, with our forces, because I don't have to make a profit, then I also have to get my materials I get at a cut rate. So the difference would be the $200,000. The site design, i've talked to mr. Curry, roger -- roger el khoury, he agreed to do the design work and help with the site, along with our own organization. So it has a cost recovery total of about 3.7. Whether we are talking about the -- estimating it will cost about 3.9 million to build it. That's a difference of a little over $200,000. Again these are estimate numbers that we are using, but I feel that they are very good numbers.
>> I guess my only question is I知 in agreement with consolidation, efficiencies, better use of staff time. The only thing that I want to make sure is that this consolidation does not reduce quality of services that precinct 1 and 4. To precinct 1 and had. We need to -- 1 and 4, we need to keep that service level at a top quality even though we consolidate. I think just -- the reasons are just very obvious. We've had to put additional money into -- into making sure that the roads in precinct 1 and 4 came up to the same level as those in 3 and 2. And so I want to make sure that -- that we -- that that is one of the top priorities that neither precinct loses the quality of services that those constituents deserve. As taxpayers. And so -- so can I -- do I have that assurance?
>> yes, ma'am, you do. As a matter of fact I would assure that we can even improve the quality of what we are doing now. It gives me the resources readily available to be able to address any issue or any problem that comes up. On a moment's notice. As it is now, we are spread out a little bit on the east side, but we do accommodate and we do react and we do produce for our constituents. I feel with this consolidation, because of all of the resources in one area, that we will be able to readily address those concerns a lot quicker. A lot more resources that I can throw at them at one time from the same area and have better control of it.
>> the location of the new facility, of course, is right on the border of both 1 and 1, which I would think would make the response time -- almost equal. To being able to reach both areas in a -- in a very reasonable period of time. And -- but I did want to run that by you to kind of get some confirmation that I知 understanding this correctly. Okay. Those are just two questions that I had.
>> those were good questions, Commissioner. And I have not had an opportunity to visit the west side consolidated road and bridge site. But I understand that it's -- it's working really well. And of course I look at this and I -- I look at -- you try to come to a break-even point as far as not having to spend taxpayers' dollars, additional dollars doing the things like this, because that's what it really boils down to is also saving the taxpayers' dollars and then also provide the same level of service. Not have to spend those taxpayers dollars. Of course I looked at the -- the -- the shortfall, after it's all said and done. Don, I don't know if this can properly be made up, maybe it can, 200 -- $2,000. So I guess my point is with that amount of shortfall, do you think that that could possibly be made up some kind of way in the transition, maybe of the sale of the precinct 1 sound light office building, also the one for -- for satellite building number 4 in precinct 4. If that is the case, then it would really maybe satisfy me a lot greater degree than -- than -- than at current. If that is the possibility, then of course I知 really looking forward to doing this. I have no opposition to it at all. I want to let you know that I think that it's a great move. Of course, I知 also looking at the entryways, coming up on 969, 973, and -- in that area, also, also decker, decker lane. So -- so those entryways and then still would not encroach on the neighborhoods which was something that I really hold dear to my heart is -- is I知 not trying to encroach on the neighborhoods as much as possible in this, appears to do all of those things. And of course again, looking at the -- looking at the square footage, the increasing square footage, especially in your -- in your building trades of this thing, administrative end of that, I mean, it's quite significant. And of course this is something that's been lacking out there at the precinct 1 office building that I know of when we have community meetings, there's never enough room when you have the big major meetings. You have people standing out in the hall, even outdoors, get discouraged and leave when we have community meetings. That is definitely a plus with consolidating. The cost savings that I知 seeing here now, if all of these things hold true, don, I have no problem with supporting this as it is right now. Look. If you can answer this question for me, to look at that shortfall that we have here to make sure that the sale of the property and then the property we are moving on, we have 123-acre site there, of course that's the old turkey farm, then of course that -- that could end up being -- county-owned property, that's a savings in itself. So can I have a real assurance that the short-fall of the 20 some thousand dollars there would be something that you feel that we could reach and attain?
>> yes, sir. I believe it is. Again, these are all estimate numbers.
>> I understand.
>> and I wanted -- I didn't want to paint a rosy picture. I wanted to paint a realistic picture.
>> okay.
>> these numbers, I feel [indiscernible] but we will take every opportunity that we can to raise that shortfall. The $240,000 could be erased with the sale of one of the facilities if the price is higher, but it could be a little lower, too. Just I don't want to sit here and say that it's going to be even. I知 going to try everything in my power to make sure that it is appear even -- break even operation.
>> right.
>> as far as consolidating the precinct 2 and precinct 3 regional satellite road office, bridge and road office, what has the service level been since that consolidation has taken place?
>> I feel that the service level has gone up. I wish Commissioner Daugherty was here. Because I -- I asked his, talked to his office, bob Moore in his office, I hadn't sat down with Commissioner Daugherty personally, but I have talked with his office staff. They are the people that usually get all of the calls, all of the issues. And they told me that -- that they -- that the -- that the calls have decreased greatly. About the work and the service. Our reaction time is a lot faster on the -- on the going to problem areas. Our scheduled work loads are handled more efficiently, and the equipment and the employees. We have them all in one place. We have them under one building, if you will, one area. And we are able to just put them out into the -- into the precinct area more readily, more efficiently, than we have in the past.
>> final question, what is the -- what is the square footage for the -- for the administrative phase of this consolidation and also the training building?
>> the --
>> the administrative building is 5400 square feet and the town hall is about 3200 square feet.
>> 3200 square feet. And if you would equate that as far as persons being able to -- let's say you are having a town hall meeting, the numbers that could probably be equated there, also the numbers of persons that are able to -- to -- to visit and have town hall meetings, at the precinct 2 and 3 office building, would be about how many folks? [indiscernible] is concerned?
>>
>> about 400, 450.
>> the square footage, that's a pretty good bit of space for each individual.
>> I remember several big issue that's we've had over there in the community, where we've had to call community meetings, of course there hasn't been enough seating arrangements. Try to, depending on aisd, to maybe get some of their buildings. Sometimes that was not available. We just couldn't get those settings at times that we think we needed it. I remember s.h. 130 deal coming through there, for an example, we had a lot of, a lot of participants. Those kind of issues are among us, that would be something that we could also look for as far as the county issues are concerned that we could maybe address also in the future. What would be the -- the -- the same setting for the precinct 2 and 3 building as far as the -- as far as the numbers are concerned?
>> square footage.
>> no. Also square footage, but also the number of people that would be able to sit there for a town hall meeting.
>> yes, it's about 300, 300 to 350.
>> 300 to 350.
>> okay.
>> so something similar that we would have as far as if the court decides to approve this consolidation effort. Which --
>> the other thing, Commissioner is that the acoustics are good as well because we have been to some hearings, people can't hear what's being said. So we need to keep that in mind because otherwise you can have a town hall meeting and -- and you still -- people can't hear you. Or there's -- there's sound is bouncing off too much. And so we want to make it an effective place where effective meetings and effective communication can take place.
>> related to -- to sat 2, which is west side, it used to be precincts 2 and 3, but now it is completely precinct 3. Everything related to precinct 2 is now coming out of the east side service centers, which I appreciate since all of our roads are now the wells branch, Pflugerville area. But having dealt with that center, I would hope that we can learn from the experiences of the sat 2 office and that is the public space out there is extraordinarily limited, the public hearings that we would have out at the sat 2 building it was tiny, that was being generous, I知 hoping that we can learn from that, the space have room to grow and potentially have it to be able to be divided off so you can multiple meetings there on the same night because that's been a problem.
>> right.
>> also, over at sat 2, west side, the public parking in the front was rather limited. And because we had the fencing there to clearly delineate, kind of like what we had over at star flight, the public parking is rather limited, you have the fenced area and so if we are going to have something that could potentially have more public hearings, more public outreach in that area, we need to make sure that the public parking is accounted for. Otherwise, pemg are going to have to -- otherwise, people are going to have to go into what is generally a restricted work area, it's not really where we want folks to go. I would hope that we would learn from that. Also, it would seem to apply the policy that we want to apply about excess policy. We would go through a process, ask certain kinds of questions about whether we should indeed sell this or lease this. It seems also likely that we want to have good discussions about the location on the turkey farm as to where it is best to put this. Knowing that the placement is not only for what's best for the facility that's going to go there, but also be thinking in terms of how do we carve off the most marketable piece of that property now that s.h. 130 is coming to -- right around the corner. So we want to do it so we can leverage two good things happening at the same time. In terms of the lesson that's we have learned from Texas disposal systems, we need to be our own buffer. With the neighborhood. In terms of making absolutely sure that what we need for this property is buffered by ourselves so that we never become an issue, because right now there are very few people and businesses out there that will change overnight in 2007 when that highway comes through. We want to make sure that we are our own buffer, we think about that ahead of time. My final question -- actually comments, now it's a question. What is the time line that you need for action because you are delaying fleet replacements and we certainly are getting ready to go into the fy '05 budget rose in terms of things that we can put a dollar tag to. I mean, there seems to be a point where you need a decision from us or not. Because if we are not going to do this, then we need to proceed on with things to make sure that the two east side service centers continue to function properly.
>> I think we are looking at today as the first step in that process. We would like to proceed on site planning and marketing of the property. We need to sharpen up these numbers to find out if our estimates are correct.
>> right.
>> so we expect just basically a general green light today, so we can move to the next step. We will come back with the site plan. With some better outside estimates of how much the properties are worth. And then we will get a second notice to proceed on whether or not these numbers are right and whether we should actually go forward.
>> joe, the other -- the other thing that occurs to me is are we going to -- to have some kind of meeting or laying out this plan for constituents over on the east side, so that they will understand why a consolidation, so they will understand it comes because there's unit road system already in place. And that this is not removing the -- the precinct offices from the Commissioners because they are not under the Commissioners anymore since 1986. So it's almost like an opportunity to broadcast once again that -- that Commissioners are no longer in charge of our precincts. Since 1986? So is there an opportunity to -- to -- to run this buy the community at the end?
>> I think there is an opportunity or -- and we can --
>> yeah.
>> if you would like to have a public hearing or --
>> just laying out, talking about plans, yeah, laying them out. Okay.
>> oh, it's just like --
>> joe mentioned green lighting to go ahead to marketing the property. Part of the process is also, of the evaluation, whether or not there are alternative uses. I would also like to suggest that if you approve the consolidation plan, which includes fleet and sign shop, you may want to add to that list of properties the smith road property that you go through the evaluation process on that one as well.
>> uh-huh.
>> if you do both satellite offices and the smith road property, you make -- you may have some opportunity but you would also have to include in the evaluation of the site the turkey farm, the ag extension services --
>> exactly.
>> it is not an ideal location for --
>> what you are asking for today is really just approval of the consolidation proposal concept. With the understanding that if -- if there is support in the court, you would put together specifics and come back later.
>> yeah.
>> you can tell many people at the county have ideas about how the specifics ought to be structured. So I would get their input.
>> I move approval -- [multiple voices]
>> I would like to move approval of that [laughter]
>> motion from Commissioner Davis to approve the proposal to consolidate. [multiple voices] and -- and asked basically that -- that we be advised of -- of time tables and other specifics that are proposed. My request is that you show us basically how you will demonstrate the efficiencies and cost savings or total cost of consolidation. And I guess I知 looking for a format that we can expect to see, maybe blanks filled in, as this -- as this evolves. That motion was seconded by Commissioner Gomez.
>> judge, before we take the vote on this, don, again, I would like to reiterate all of the possibilities of -- of addressing this little small shortfall. If we go above, come back, after you start digging deeper and then coming back with things. Again the neighborhoods, I mentioned that, I知 really concerned about the neighborhood encroachment. How it will be laid out, not be encroached on the route, the transportation vehicles would have to take to avoid confrontation, no cut-through traffic situations. In that area. So I知 kind of concerned about those things and making sure that we -- that we be a good neighbor as we have been if the court decides to do this on johnny morris road. Of course I知 looking forward to -- to moving with this. Thank you.
>> some friendlies, things to also throw in there, I think belinda brought up excellent suggestions related to the analysis on smith school, related to -- to 4 h extension service that's actually closer to the expo center, which is really their hometown. Also if you -- if we could include discussions with i.t., Certainly in terms of where the gatin lines are or are not related to making sure that we have the infrastructure related to i.t. And finally another thing on the due diligence would have to be at some point we would be looking at either a traffic light or some kind of something we need to have some discussions with texdot because 969 is their roadway. To make sure that our vehicles that don't exactly peel out of driveways be able to get safely on to 969 coming and going either with with a left turn lane that needs to go going there. Good site distances, but also the potential of whether we teed to look at a -- we need to look at a traffic signal.
>> those are good.
>> thank you.
>> this motion is not that specific, but it does seem to me that we ought to have a public hearing, one at 1:00 and one at 4 after we go to the next stage, people want to know specifically what's recommended.
>> uh-huh.
>> the other things that I think we awghtd to see specifically -- we ought to see specifically what we have in mind as a consolidated office. Advantages, disadvantages, fiscal analysis, as well as some explanation as to the resident of how we think this is a lot more efficient than current approach. When I was precinct 1 Commissioner people complained about us not getting out to patch potholes fast enough, one reason we put different precinct offices in different precincts was to reduce the response time and basically make sure that equipment was available to take care of the needs. What you are saying is if we consolidate these offices we think we should accomplish the same thing.
>> yes, sir, I do.
>> instead of two offices one office. I think that I would be ready to address questions about how we do thats. That's the point that I知 most concerned about, judge, it's great consolidation, efficiency, all of that means a lot but you can't let the quality of services be reduced.
>> yeah.
>> a lot of specific things that I think we would expect to see at the next stage assuming this passes, ingress, egress, buffer. My guess would be that if he we want to consolidate satellite offices here for transportation, then that would be number 1. If we want to market this to make money, then -- and that's number 1, we ought to hold off on moving these two offices here. But if number 1 is to consolidate road and bridge for 1, 4, I guess to the extent that 2 is there, I think that --
>> they are all there.
>> that ought to be primary.
>> last time I went out and looked around, it was not like all 123 acres of this land are usable. I would go in thinking this is county property, there may be reason to be optimistic about marketate. But if -- marketability. If number 1 is a larger satellite office, more efficiency, save money in the long run, et cetera, that ought to be our primary goal in my view. When it comes back, I think it ought to show that. To the extent that we can market what's left, there goes the buffer. Whoever acquires it ought to understand, this is a road office, not a road office like next door to you, big trucks coming and going. Some things that are unpleasant, road construction. So let's vote, all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. We expect to be back here when?
>> I知 not sure that we have a time table yet on that. This is going to take some work.
>> save a dollar, I guess that needs to be a fiscal year during which the -- we are told the savings will occur.
>> well, we are certainly trying to get back within -- before you adopt your budget.
>> okay.
>> our budget.
>> our budget [laughter] i.
>> I can hardly wait for the next discussion.
>> about how long do you think it will be back before the Commissioners court on this. The judge brought up about a public hearing, I don't know if they had a public hearing, yet the level of service has been muchly improved. I don't know if they want to the folks and constituents said look, blah blah blah, I don't know how that worked. I would like to go out there and take a look at the precinct 2 and 3 --
>> west side.
>> west side -- west side consequence addition with the building -- consolidation with the building itself so that I will have a good idea because I don't know if that was taken up before the constituents in that area to provide a better service. And so -- but anyway, whatever it may be, I still would like to know a time frame because I want to make sure that -- that we have enough time and -- to deal with this as far as you having to come back to the court with something, then again enough time for me, I guess anybody else that want to deal with it to -- to do what we need to do. In preparation to -- to what we intend to do here. So I知 just looking for a mix of the both. If you can basically get back with me, let me know, let the court know when you think you will be back, it will be fine.
>> the other thing is that for the -- for the more inquisiive residents who ask, how do we show that we are more efficient on the west side, what are the specific things that we would point to? I can get the answer to that next time. More efficient on the west side, as a result of one office, how do I see that, how do you show that? Okay.
>> thank you.
Last Modified: Wednesday, June 2, 2004 7:47 AM