Travis County Commssioners Court
December 16, 2003
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Item C3
C 3 is to reappointment carol olderman and tim jackson as fire Commissioners to the board of esd number 12. For the appointment January 1, 2004 to December 31st of 2005. Anybody here on this item? No reason to come because we had it on consent. Are you the two to be appointed.
>> no, I'm here to suggest a reappointment.
>> okay. Then come forward and give us your name and we would be happy to get your comments.
>> get comfortable.
>> thank you.
>> my name is jesse williams, taxpayer for emergency services district number 12. I came down here in 1998 to address the Commissioners court as fire chief of the manor fire department to contest the appointment of carol olderman at the time, I was accompanied by the assistant chief, president of the board and members of the fire department. We discussed the things that were going on in 1998 in emergency services district number 12 that needed to change. We did not feel at the time that olderman would bring the leadership to the department that was needed. Five years later we have not seen the leadership that we need to take this emergency services district forward. We need a change. Commissioner Gomez told the esd in 1998 to stop spending taxpayer funds in bastrop county. It continued for another three or four years. Not only did the esd allow it to continue, but they did not even get an audit so that we know how our funds were spent in bastrop county. You recently became aware of $500,000 that is gone in manchaca. That should have gone to the emergency services district. Evidently there's no dissolution clause there. That would have put that equipment back in the hands of the esd. It would have been used to provide better services. We had the same thing happen in esd 12. The contract was cancelled for 969 fire department. Some of the equipment came back. However, there's still a lot in question. Fire trucks, fire stations, equipment that did not come back to emergency services. Yet when esd 12 took over manor fire department, all of their equipment was turned over to them for one dollar. These are tax funds that are not being used to provide services. This is your opportunity to make a change. Don't make us go another year under the same leadership. Tim jackson was appointed last year. I applied, I brought my application to all of y'all to be appointed as an esd Commissioner. You asked me, Commissioner Davis, to go talk to the emergency services district Commissioners. I did. I talked to carol. It was never mentioned at a public meeting that I had applied. Tim jackson was invited to come out and talk to the commission and he did. When I left the meeting, the meeting was adjourned, everybody went home. I found out at the next meeting that he was approved to be appointed as an esd Commissioner. By esd 12. We thought the meeting had adjourned, we thought everybody was going home. Found out later that wasn't the case. There's a lot of things going on in our esd that you need to be aware of, now you need to take action. I don't know what else to say other than come to you and say that w contest -- I have looked at the agendas. Commissioners court. I do not see where tim jackson was ever appear pointed, approved by -- appointed, approved by this commission. If he was, great. He's a great man, I that I that he's doing a great job. He has no fire experience. Legislation passed this last session that you as Commissioners will appoint people to the esd that have fire experience. The esd's in Travis County united that. There's so many different ways in esd's across Travis County of how someone gets appointed. In my esd I evidently don't come directly to you with an application. I have an application today, the same one that I presented in 1998 asking me to be appointed. I offer it to you today, if you want it. There's no clear-cut way of how you get through this process. This is something that you again need to look at. It should not be inconsistent throughout the county. On how esd Commissioners are appointed and I firmly believe that when the Commissioner of a precinct, precinct 1 in my case, presents you with a consent item that these people ought to be appointed, I think the other four Commissioners ought to get in line and go along with it as you did in 1998 even though we contested it. However, when you become aware of problems, I think that it's your responsibility and your obligation to look into these situations, these problems, these allegations, these concerns before you just blanket approve anybody's recommendation.
>> let me make sure that I understand. So you have two issues with ms. Olderman. One is using I guess esd 12 funds in bastrop county.
>> absolutely. It has stopped now, they cancelled the contract.
>> and when was that, do you know?
>> about a year ago.
>> and the other one was no audit.
>> no audit. They could not get them to provide audit. Didn't sue 'em. Just couldn't get it.
>> okay. Couldn't get bastrop to provide it.
>> exactly. For four years, three or four years.
>> so it's not the esd 12 audit, it's an audit from bastrop of how bastrop used the esd 12 funds.
>> exactly. Esd 12 had a contract in their contract that both fire departments would provide an annual audit. That was not done. In 969's case. Manor's case it was.
>> did they tell you why in 1998 they were not recommending you for appointment to the board?
>> no. I never had an opportunity to discuss it.
>> well, you are right about one thing. We routinely approve the recommendations that come from the board. I'm not sure that this is the place to start with a change, but i'll tell you what I will do early in 2004. I will bring to the court a recommended written policy governing the appointment of board members to the various esds. I have no problem with sharing that with you before I bring it. Obviously I'm just one vote of five. But I think this issue has surfaced enough for us to maybe become a little bit more proactive in setting forth election standards, give the esd's an opportunity to respond to them, then put them in place and expect them to be followed.
>> I understand.
>> so I will do that. That does not affect today's item though.
>> I understand.
>> judge, just as some input, I hope that we could have some good discussion about how they are done. We are consistent in terms of how they are done, a recommendation comes forward from whatever Commissioner that esd is located in, it's presented to this court. But I think it would be unfair to say that somehow there's a one size fits all as to the kinds of people that are needed to be recruited for each individual board. They are very different esd's, because I had quite a few of them, don't have as many as I do now. But there are certain one that's like to have the geographic representation to ensure that if a board member goes off from the trails end area out in Lake Travis that they get somebody else from that area to make sure that there's geographic representation. Some of them have term limits in terms of they like to see their board turn over. Some of them if somebody is doing a good job, they don't necessarily need those kinds of things. Some of them have absolute rules against anybody having a tie to a former fire district or some of them think that's something that adds to their organization. I've had to work through issues related to problems on an esd. Sometimes what's necessary is to help that board work through their issues and that means that you stay the course with your Commissioners. Other times just the opposite is true. I can think of another esd, I won't name them where new blood needed to be brought into that board. But the new blood that was brought in was somebody that didn't have any ties with the ongoing dispute in that esd. When it was a clean break it truly was a clean break and a chance to start anew as opposed to just pun faction replaced by another faction and you haven't really resolved the issues out in that esd. At this particular time I'm going to not vote for the reappointment of these two because quite frankly I don't know what's going on out there. I'm not taking sides. All I know this is knew. This is the second time around that I'm going to stay out of this particular one because I think there may need to be new blood, but it may need to be a institute tram party. I respect what you and your wife have done related to the work out there. But I would say it needs to be somebody completely disassociated with anything going on out there so we don't just replace one bit of turmoil with the same turmoil that's just from a -- from an earlier version of it. That's where I'm at.
>> thank you.
>> I guess the question that I would ask, mr. Davis, are you pleased with the reappointment of these two?
>> yes, I am. And this -- I understand that there have been some upheave values in the areas, we have made a lot of progress, there has been a lot of problems in the paths. Esd's do have their problems. Some of them surface, some of them do not. But according to what the commitment that I'm getting from these particular appointees in resolving a lot of things that have happened I think we do need to stay the course in going forward with them. I have looked at this and -- owe and let me say this so folks will really understand that they -- these are autonomous type of, jurisdictional type of situations, these esd's are governed by statute. The Commissioners court, challenge to us, is that we appoint, we have the authority to appoint and not only that ensure that the -- that the audit that effects the ed's is also in compliance, these particular things have been done, that's basically the only authority we really have. However hearing what the problems have been and then taking care of some of the problems. These persons that have been appointed have been notified that -- that the resolution of a lot of these things must be adhered to and any -- any breach of any of these things then of course we will visit at that time. So this is basically where I'm coming from. So I'm going to reappoint. I would like to move that I reappoint [indiscernible] and also carol olderman to the esd's and hopefully things can be worked out because it has been a turmoil situation for a long time. I think we are headed in the right direction with a lot of things going on out there. Of course even mentioned about the situation that was brought up as far as services being offered to -- to bastrop county. Of course that has continued, the audit of course that you mentioned was also in bastrop county. So I think a lot of these viption have been brought -- of these things have been brought fort but again I'm going to be very, very vigil lenlt, watching with a very, very close eye on what's going on in the future as I have done here now. So with that I would like to again move approval and move forward with this particular two appointments. I do understand what you are saying, speaker, and of course we have looked at it and of course we will move forward with where we are now based on those facts.
>> I understand. We will keep you advised of what happens.
>> I want you to do that.
>> second.
>> would you like to give comments? Since you're the --
>> as carol is coming forward, I want to make it very clear, I have nothing but excellent working relation with carol. I think she's been vigilant. It's one of those things of an infusion of new blood. I don't know mr. Jackson. But it's one of those things where I'm just at the point of saying we need to -- to -- I don't want to use the word shake things up because that would not being appropriate. Get an infusion of new -- a new perspective.
>> if there's a new blood standard it ought to be written in the policy, I say. When I was precinct 1 Commissioner, some residents were unhappy with the various board members.
>> yeah.
>> typically they were the ones that wanted to be on the board. It's hard to be objective whether you are in precinct one or two. But I do think that it's time for us as the appear point authority to set forth standards that contain minimum expectations.
>> we have not done that.
>> I agree with you on that.
>> I'm carol olderman. Tim jackson couldn't make it this morning because we had doctors appointment with a sick little girl. I'm here to answer any questions that you would have. I think there's been a lot of allegations and I would like to put an end to them, also. So I welcome any input, any insight, any investigation that you -- that you would like to do and -- and to put an end to this.
>> I discussed a lot of things with you yesterday, carol. As far as what direction I'm going. A lot of things have been going on. We do look forward to things -- head in this the right direction, of course you have been a good -- in my opinion you have been there and a lot of things that you have made improvements on and I think that you will continue to make improvements. But of course something similar to what the judge has said, I think we do need a consistent policy of what's applicable to all of the esd's here in Travis County. And I think that way those -- those things can be kind of hammered out and washed out? Each esd is again timeless, but we can still have policy.
>> you guys are our boss, as the esd Commissioners, we look to you for advice, help and direction.
>> was the decision about who to recommend for appointment, which was made by the board, made in an open meeting?
>> are you talking about this one?
>> right. No, this was not a board recommendation. This was my request to be reappointed in a request that tim jack son be reappointed. It was not a board action.
>> mr. Jackson is on the board now.
>> correct. Yes, he is.
>> okay.
>> he's been on for two years now.
>> and how many years have you been on.
>> I have been on six years.
>> yes, sir.
>> [indiscernible] [inaudible - no mic]
>> I do have a lot of things to say. I know we don't have time to say 'em. But we are very happy about the -- about the progress that we have made and of course you all know we are behind the curve on the money that's coming in. We have always been probably the poorest district in the county. But when I first came on the board 8 years ago, we did not control the money directly and the spending of it. The -- it was through contracts with -- with the -- with the fire department. That was -- they would get the money and they would spend it, they always knew just about how much we had, how to make their budgets for it, too. But it's the -- the thing that happened about -- bastrop county for a long time, we were working on trying to solve that. That happened from history. How it got in there before with esd's and so forth. So we have set up a long time. May I say right now I was never aware that -- that Commissioner Gomez had made any such comment that was reported here. If so, you may know about it. But I never heard of that. But we were already working on it. We had -- we had -- it was a difficult job for 969. They had to account for fund separately. Funds that they generated, the funds that -- that bastrop might have given them, there were some, a few, had to be separate accounted for for the funds that we give them for their work in the -- in our district. And that went on for -- for until -- until the year before last when we decided to become -- to become -- to take control of the spending of the money, our -- our fire chief and that is probably one of the best moves that we have ever made. Now, this was in -- this was done, anticipated this massive growth in manor area. And it's -- it really is a lot out there now. The -- I remember mr. Samuelson came by one day to the board and said we've got a big storm coming toward us. I said yes we're all aware of it. How are we going to do this. And so that was a few days before his death. But we have, since we have had a chief develop a strategic plan, we think that it's a good plan. We have some way to spend the money and some allocations of priority. We are very much aware of their -- of our responsibilities toward protecting that community from fire and -- and health problems. So so he owe so we are -- we are very glad that -- that we've had this opportunity to make this [indiscernible] as far as the president of our board, i'll tell you a little bit something about her that you may not know. She was on the board a number of years ago when they built the fire house. And mr. Fowler, s.j. Fowler got on that board at the same time or while she was on the board. When she quit, s.j. Fowler became board chair. It was -- I had just retired from being on the community service board at the service center there.
>> advisory committee?
>> uh-huh.
>> and then mr. Fowler came and said, you got, you have rested long enough. He asked me to -- to make an application. I made an application [indiscernible] appointed. I have wanted to quit a number of times but I see where we are going and we have got a plan. Where we get the money. It's really [indiscernible] but as far as wasting money, we don't have any money to waste. One of the things that we have done, we have -- we have been able to buy -- to hire -- I mean buy two new fire trucks. We -- that's equipment that's going to last a while. And we are going to be looking to buy some more next year when we start getting more revenue. And we will start getting more revenue in -- in October. So -- so I think some of the concerns that you are -- that you are being made aware of, please look into every accusation that you make. Much of it is gossip. Much of it becomes true without being refuted. So when you hear them, make a good investigation. Know something about the people who is making the investigation. Or making the complaints. That's about all i'll say.
>> take --
>> this woman here has done a tremendous job as chair of our board.
>> thank you, for those comments, because that's exactly what I did yesterday as far as looking at investigating some of the allegations. Of course bringing it out, making sure what was being brought was actual fact. Of course looking at some of those things that were being put before me before these appointments came forth, we did investigate them to the point where I was satisfied to the point to -- to support these two persons to be appointed to the board. [indiscernible] need to be made.
>> you bet.
>> but of course it is a governing entity and you are self autonomous, within your own self except for the Commissioners court having the ability to appoint. Of course you still have to comply with audit requirements. So again I'm satisfied with these questions that I -- I made a motion to -- to appoint. I'm satisfied with these persons that I made a motion to appoint.
>> it may make sense to do two separate motions, the objection as I understand it went to ms. Olderman, not to tim jackson from mr. Williams. Why don't we could that, can we Texas a motion on -- any more discussion? All in favor, signify by saying aye. Favor favor.
>> show me an obtaining.
>> abstaining, common, we appreciate you coming down. Enjoy that big paycheck monthly.
>> oh, yeah, working two nights a week. Just one when I started.
Last Modified: Tuesday, December 17, 2003 6:46 AM