Travis County Commssioners Court
November 18, 2003
The Closed Caption log for this Commissioners Court agenda item is provided by Travis County Internet Services. Since this file is derived from the Closed Captions created during live cablecasts, there are occasional spelling and grammatical errors. This Closed Caption log is not an official record the Commissioners Court Meeting and cannot be relied on for official purposes. For official records please contact the County Clerk at (512) 854-4722.
Item 1
Number one is to receive testimony regarding the following: a. Impact of proposed redistricting on the fragmentation and isolation of african-american voters in Travis County and regarding its impact upon the hispanic voters' community of interest in Travis County; and. B. Impact of changes to precinct polling lines and precinct polling locations on county voters, especially african american and hispanic voters. And just in case we need action today, we posted item 25 as an action item.
>> move to open the public hearing.
>> second.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote. And do we have people sign in or --
>> [indiscernible] [inaudible - no mic]
>> actually, 1 a and 1 b.
>> 1 b. So what we will do this morning then, if we could get say three at a time, maybe use the chairs on the end and the one in the middle to give you a little elbow room. And as one finishes, then if we could get another one to come forward. So if we start with 3, and -- and one in the middle, one on each end, and there's one person -- as one person concludes if we could get another to come forward. What I am trying to do is really to facilitate the flow of testimony. What we are looking for basically is information that we may reduce to writing and submit to the justice department.
>> good morning.
>> good morning, if you could give us your full name, we would be happy to get your comments.
>> my name is gus garcia, I live now in congressional district 10. I used to live in congressional district 10 10 when it included most of Travis County. I'm now in a district that puts me in an area that goes all the way to houston. Anyway, I live at 7104 ophelia in coronado do hills in -- northeast of reagan high school. There is a fact sheet that was prepared, I don't know, has it been distributed to the Commissioners? It looks like this.
>> no.
>> it has probably the most complete and comprehensive analysis of what is happening in this redistricting. Do the Commissioners have it?
>> [inaudible - no mic]
>> we will have a copy momentarily. You may want to hit the highlights for us.
>> I will just hit some of the highlights, judge and Commissioners. It's good to be here visiting with you again. In the second page it says what happens to african americans under the plan? 27,000 african americans will be in the new congressional district 10. A district that is two-thirds white and anglo. 8,000 will be in congressional district 21, a district that is three-quarters white/anglo. 44,000 african americans will be in the new district, in the new congressional district 25, a district that is two-thirds hispanic. So you can see that the influence of the african american voters has been diluted very significantly. The next paragraph talks about what happens to the hispanics under the new plan. And what they have done in this particular situation is they have packed the hispanics into one district and then spread quite a few. 64,000 hispanics will be in the new congressional district 10. A district that is two-thirds white and anglo. 40,000 hispanics will be in the new congressional district 21, a district that is three quarter white and anglo. And 125,000 hispanics will be in the new congressional district 25, a district that is two-thirds hispanic. My biggest concern, my biggest complaint I guess is with congressional district 25, which goes all the way from east Austin to hildago county. If there is a classic case in gerrymandering that's one. The second complaint that I have is a personal one because that district has been a district in which I have worked -- the old district is one that I have worked with for a long time. And they carve me out. They came down highway 183 all the way to cameron road, they could have gone all the way to highway 290 and left me in congressional district 25. Instead they came down cameron road, then went out highway 290, in essence, putting me in congressional district 10. There is no commonalty of interest that I have with that district that goes to houston. Commonalty of interest is with congressional district 25. You also see what happened to the traditional groups that have had, that have worked very hard to make in community better. What they did to hyde park is unbelievable. I mean, it's unconscionable the way they tore it up. The same thing with travis heights. So i, along with many others, have filed to be intervenors in this particular lawsuit and my hope is that we -- is that we prevail in that lawsuit. Anyway, thank you very much, judge and Commissioners for allowing me to say a few words, my hope is that you all continue with your opposition to the redistricting plan that was drawn by the -- this last legislature. Thank you very much.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> mayor, did I understand you to say that the new district 10 that's within the three districts that was in Travis County, are you saying that you live in the new district 10, which is above u.s. 290?
>> yes.
>> streches all the way to houston.
>> yes.
>> in other words if this particular plan --
>> somebody was out to get me, I guess, I don't know who it was. But they took me out of the area where I have worked you know all of my life that I'm in politics, they put me in a district that, you know, I don't have -- I don't have any record of service in that area. I spent the last 30 years working to make this community stronger. And now, you know, I'm in a district that I have, you know -- you know, it's not that I want to run for any of these positions but I think that what we have had is, in this community, over the last 20, 30 years, we have worked together, I think you know you -- at one of the rallyes that you spoke, you spoke about that how this community has come together, why mexican american, african american, asian come together to make this a very good community. And this particular plan tears that fabric, the fabric of that coalition, that relationship has that has been developed over the years that all of us have worked so hard to build. /?txu.
>> thank you, thank you, mayor.
>> thank you so much for your comments.
>> thank you. I'm harriett murphy, a retired municipal court judge where I also serve as presiding judge. I live at 3638 quiet [ phonetic ] drive, Austin, Texas. Like you -- like the mayor, I am now in the congressional district 10 that streches all the way to houston. And like the mayor had stated, I had worked long in this county with voter registration. And getting the vote out. And -- and with the congressional district and with all of the other elections and I'm just appalled that I won't be able to work with those people in my congressional district because I certainly -- it would be impossible to get -- to get together constituents that are so far apart to work for any kind of common cause. But since this is going in the record and I would like for the record to reflect some history of how we have been disend franchised as african americans in Texas. Of course you know I'm speaking on the impact of the proposed redistricting. Historically, Texas has acted to restrict meaningful electoral participation and I thought that we had kind of overcome that with the voting rights act and with how we have stood, stand at this time. But I do want you to know that from 1876 to 1966 Texas assessed a poll tax on individual electors. This was a device to restrict poor whites, african americans and mexican americans. The fee was very small. So anybody could pay the $1.75 or whatever it was. But here is where it really hurt: you had to pay that poll tax between October the 1st, and February the 1st of the year it was to be applied. So you only had that period to pay the poll tax to be able to vote in any election that came after February the 1st. And of course, you know what happened. Many people forgot to pay the poll tax and could not vote and that was the essence of the whole device to keep us from having the right to vote. Now, the 24th amendment to the u.s. Constitution abolished it as it applied to federal elections in 1944. And of course Texas didn't come around to doing it until about 20 years later in 1966. Now, the next tactic to -- to reduce afro americans part was the white primary, as you know, of the democratic party in Texas. It was at that time that most blacks in Texas had become democrats. So if you could restrict them from voting in the democratic primary, then they would not be able to vote, I mean, their vote wouldn't count in the general election because the democrats will have already selected who they wanted to run for office. And of course what they were proposing that the democratic party was a private club, and it had its own right to determine who its members should be. And of course that was several -- there was several court cases attacking the white democratic primary and finally you had smith versus alright, the most important case, which abolished the democratic white primary because the courts said at that time that the democratic primary is not a private function that's not -- not attached to the state. That the state regulates the -- the activities of the democratic primary and elections and therefore it is a state act and as a state act it's unconstitutional. But these are just some of the things that we have had to go through in order to participate fully in the electoral process. So I do not need to go over the statistics that the mayor has gone over with you. But as you can see, it's the same old thing. When you think about those people who are responsible for redistricting, and especially the congressmen out of washington, it's blood, you know, it's been a part of things to restrict the power of minorities in this state. And this is one way, and a most important way, of doing it. I doubt whether the congressman had -- well, I'm sure if there are african americans in his precinct, I mean in his congressional district it's very small. So it does not matter. Of course even trying to overcome the history of Texas does not matter. (microphone feedback).
>> so what I am asking you is to use your power to do what is right and to think seriously of how when we look at 77,000 afro american voters in this county, not to see these votes [indiscernible] to the point where we will have no more power as we had no power in the white primary and as we had no power when we had to pay the poll tax in Texas. Thank you.
>> thank you, judge murphy for that historical perspective. Thank you for those comments, thank you very much.
>> yes?
>> my name is ora houston, I live at 2207 east 22nd street. I have lived in congressional district 10 since I was 18 and registered to vote. If this proposed redistricting plan is implemented, I will be in congressional district 25. Now, according to the information that we have received, there are more Austinites in congressional district 25, there will be the congressional district with the most african americans, 44,000 will be in congressional district 25. And that district will stretch from east Austin to the mexican border. Um ... I want to talk about the effect that this fragmentation will have on the county and city governments as we attempt to seek federal funds to address issues from transportation to the way we care for those people who are disabled, elderly, those who have no voice. This district, this newly created district, is stacked by people who live outside of Austin and Travis County. Overwhelmingly so. And decisions that will be made at the federal level will be decisions that will be impacted by where the majority of the people live. Not what's best for travis nor Austin. That's scary to me because we have worked so hard, both county and city governments, to try to ensure that the people we represent who have no voice are heard. This will fly out of the window if these proposed districts are kept in place. I intend to work in whatever congressional district I end up in. That's going to be a hardship for me and my constituents in east Austin where I have lived all of my life because we are not going to be able to get to the valley to show the kind of impact that we can do if we can come to Travis County or to the city, and express our concerns with something that's going on. Issues that are important to us about the war or the lack of it, those things are not going to be concerns of the people. The lack of common interest perhaps of people in other parts of the district. So no matter how much we work, no matter how hard we try, there's no way that we can, these few of us in Austin, Travis County, redistrict the flow of the political waves that will happen to us. So we ask you all to please support the current plan that we are under until the next redistricting session and then let the chips fall where they may. Thank you for -- very much for listening to me.
>> thank you.
>> thank you. Thank you very much.
>> good morning, Commissioners.
>> good morning.
>> my name is akwasi evans. I live at 5200 king charles drive. Like ora and the mayor I will be moved from district 10 to district 25. Voting with people who I have never voted with before. Voting over interests that I -- that are dramatically different from my own. Austin has been labeled in the media the most segregated city in Texas. And this plan further second gates us. Rather than -- segregates us rather than brings us together. I have served for five years on the council for community reconciliation with good people like Commissioner Gomez trying to find ways to bring others together in a city where we all love and work, vote and participate in government. And this plan makes it much more difficult for us to do anything because we will be doing it with people in houston, in the valley, who have differences than ours altogether. We have problems in Austin that are unique to Austin. The naacp has been fighting against police brutality in Austin. People in the valley have no interest in that because they don't even know what's going on up here. Austin is a city that has been represented by district 10 and district 10 has accomplished almost all of our -- encompassed almost all of Austin with a small exception of district 21 with this plan being divided into three separate districts, further separating us from one another, further denying us the opportunity to come together and create a city that we all can love and live in honorably. We are being disenfranchised by this map, we need to ask the court, council, citizens, to ask the federal courts to please throw this map out because it does on nothing but create more divisivness, subpoena planted divide and conquer, it will pit more and more latinos against friend americans and anglos against friend americans, anglos against latinos when we are trying to come together. It's not good for republicans, democrats or texans. We ask you to look at it very carefully and ask the courts to please do not approve this faulty map, this phony map that came from washington d.c. And does not have any interest of Austin, Texas anywhere in it. I thank you for your time.
>> thank you.
>> thank you. Thank you akwasi evans, thank you very much.
>> good morning, judge. Members of the court.
>> good morning.
>> my name is frank smith. I'm a -- I was born in Austin, raised in Texas, live at 2932 east 12th street, precinct 128. And I -- to save your time I prepared a folder there because I'm also co-convene nor of the Austin and Texas [indiscernible] we have testified as you will see from the folder a number of times before the house and senate committees, so I feel though it's almost to use an overused term deja vu all over again. I don't mean that not only in terms of here in Texas or this legislature. I really in many ways consider this to be very much like montgomery, alabama in 1955. I was at lincoln university at that time. I didn't have the pleasure of meeting dr. King personally. But I did work very closely with -- with clarence mitchell who was 101st senator, the bureau chief of the naacp, we were church members in baltimore. His brother perrin who helped to create the congressional black caucus was a good friend of mine and my representative from the 7th district of maryland. I would like to, before I go through this folder, I would like to make the point that again back to 1955, again if you recall, we were attempting to open access to the political system for people who were closed out. I guess the big difference now, if there is one, it's very much the same. But we are trying to retain that access in the face of those who would close off access. Under the guise of the voting rights act. I think clarence would turn over in his grave if he knew or thought that the voting rights act was being used as cover for racially gerrymandering which is what I consider this to be. I was in washington in '64 when the civil rights act was passed and I was there when the voting rights act was passed. You was I was a member of the civil service commission executive staff, it was part of our job, among other things to train the examiners who went out to -- as poll watchers, most of them were from our civil service commission investigative staff of which I had been a member. I was supervisor or executive at that time, I wasn't. As I said to the senate committee many people forget that the poll watchers did not just go to mississippi, alabama and to Texas. We also sent some to chicago. I guess the issue here is how is this system going to work. In my judgment, again I'm also a member of the american civil liberties union, central Texas branch, and in my view this is about civil liberties to a much greater extent and I think an effort is being made to divide us. First off I want to thank you, members of the county council for your interest. Commissioner Sonleitner you and Commissioner Daugherty were over to visit with us at family elder care a few weeks ago, your concern about human services, Commissioner Gomez, Commissioner Davis, we have worked together, very much concerned about issues in the community, particularly east Austin. Mr. Chairman, you owe among other -- you among other accomplishments, you helped to lead and chair what I believe is one of our best plans of action right now, and will go a long way toward bringing the community together. That report was known at the equity commission report. And if you recall it was submitted to the Austin city council in August of 2001. I was very much involved, charlotte flynn, the other co-conveneor of the gray panthers was very much involved. As it show understand that report we have a plan of action, it's up -- as show understand that report we have a plan of action, it's up to us to implement it now. We do have a housing initiative, lions gardens going up in east Austin that's a part of it. I've had a number of discussions since that time with dr. Ray marshal, we believe while it does not answer all of the questions, it is a plan and a program which goes into transportation and employment, education, the infrastructure. I would say this in addition to my view that this is a racially gerrymandered plan and I believe that it is -- that it is illegal to redistrict with racial intent in mind, it's a quota system. That's number one. Number two, I might mention among other activities, I also serve on the Austin public safety committee. That is the Austin version of homeland security. Again you will see in the testimony one of the points that we made was in our view this redistricting approach completely destroys the communities of interest that we have worked so hard for a long time as mr. Evans has said to develop during the -- here in the 10th district in central Texas. Commissioner Sonleitner, I think you, Commissioner Daugherty, recall how we went through a few weeks ago there at family elder care the way, for example, that Austin area human services association has come together. Some 70 agencies, for the first time on the human services side we were able to organize and make a presentation in a way that was effective to the city council, I hope it was for you because you voted basically for what we proposed as a council. What we propose to do in the future is to take this as a basis, I'm talking here about homefront security because when you talk homeland security, we are talking largely public safety, police, fire, e.m.s. All good people. Our problem is human services to a large extent has been locked out. So I come back again to the report that we have never gotten implemented. What I would propose is that's all 140 pages, not including attachments, but that goes a long way toward putting together these communities of interest, number 1. Number 2 over a period of time, looking back to the time when lyndon johnson represented the 10th district, jake pickle, mr. Doggett, we have come together now in a time of crisis, budget cuts, it's my judgment, I don't have a lot of the answers, but I have plenty of questions. I did work for the office of management budget for a while. And I think the attempt and effort at boot strategic strapping where we made people productive by looking at their talents, abilities, training people and hopefully putting people to work and involved in activities that saves money and that's effective, efficient and we duplicate, we eliminate duplication, fragmentation, overlap. I think people cross the political spectrum can -- across the political spectrum with agree on that. I would simply wind it up by saying in this folder, I didn't mean to take that much time, I think we have two examples of what I'm talking about. First is the commentary here from the Austin statesman a few weeks back, a piece by Karen langley which identifies the problem, the budget cuts are causing to the community. Next is a letter here that -- that -- that I have signed off to mayor wynn on which we support the approach that I first tried to outline, that is unanimity instead of divisivness, bringing together all of these diverse elements and needs that we have. Finally underneath that is just an outline version of this -- of Austin equity commission report. On the other side, I will conclude this, I -- I added this little article here from senior issues, which is the Texas advocacy magazine, not because it's -- not because it's about myself, because it makes the point that real security is not based on giving the cops more guns. Building more jails, we have to do something about bad schools, bad housing, bad education. And you know it's been said a long time ago, maybe the good book or someone else, that a society probably is best judged by how it treats the least among us. As far as gray panthers, we are an advocacy organization we intend to keep these things on the forefront. I'm about homefront security as well as homeland security, I think we have opportunities. The last is an article from, this involved local folks here, it's an article from the washington post in 198 -- 1978 I guess it is. Training for the job that are there. Huston tillotson college was involved in this. We had a grant, I was still in the government at that time. But our effort was to do what I have tried describe here. Bring forces together to focus on unidentified problem, at that time it was particularly black unemployment. To a large extent it's now unemployment generally across the board. The second item there is a letter that was signed off on by the chairman of the northeast [indiscernible] congressional coalition at that time. 233 votes in the house. Congressman bob edgar from pennsylvania, he's now chair of the national council of churches. And in that he -- he did -- he was very positive in terms of his recommendation that we continue with that program, we wanted to improve vocational education as a systematic and substantive way of meeting these problems. So here's an example, I think, of an opportunity missed. We were not able to really implement this, but maybe budget cuts and adversity representing opportunities as well. So we would like to help and whatever extent we gray panthers or I myself might be involved or useful in any further testimony, I stand ready. Thank you very much.
>> we really appreciate those comments, thank you very much.
>> mr. Smith, I didn't get the notation on east 4th are you going to be moving to the 25th? Would you be moving to congressional district 25?
>> 25.
>> I wanted to make sure that I got that down.
>> yes, I believe I would be.
>> thank you, sir.
>> thank for you taking this time to let us testify. I'm melissa gonzalez, I used to live in lloyd doggett's district 10, now I am being moved over to that big blob over there. Now --
>> 21.
>> 21.
>> and I will -- I will still -- I am -- I am an ardent doggett supporter, I will still be working for him because he will be my only reputation for my view -- representation for my views. He won't be in my district, but I will still be working for him because that's the only athat anything that matters to me will happen. For me this is sort of a family matter. My father was mv gonzalez born in 1988 down in the valley. Had I moved over to hildago I would be in the same district where he was. He was the second hispanic attorney in the state of Texas. And he was the attorney for mexican government, also past president of lulac as was my maternal grandfather. Both of them were the last two surviving founders of luke lack, I grew up as a little girl going to all of these functions, civil rights, things about voting. And my -- that was sort of this throw back for me because all of a sudden I felt like I had been tossed back to the 60s when I started seeing this stuff. What happened to the last 40 years. This was just a lively of unpleasantness and divisivness that I have not seen since my childhood. People shot at my daddy, they thought he was an uppity hispanic lawyer, they shot at him. I am one generation from being shot at for just the color of my skin or my last name. That makes me nervous. All of a sudden in like an eye blink I'm back to a time when things were just not civil. For no good reason. And here we are moving forward I think as a community and there are people that we take in our community, we say here we train you, we give you time, we give you energy, we give you efforts to do things for us. We as a community have done that with lloyd doggett. He has spent his whole life in service we have made a tool of him to serve our community by reelecting him, reelecting him, he's got seniority. He has seniority and he does things that are good for all of our community. Then for us to get him tossed away that is a knife in the heart of our community. I like to see more female faces in congress. I like to see more black and brown faces in congress. But I'm voting for my minority lloyd doggett. Because he's being attacked. They have -- this redistricting plan specifically targets white, democrats, white male democrats over 40. There are -- they are our minority. I'm working to protect my minority right here because, you know, they are saying all of the faces of the democratic party, this is a revised versus of the southern strategy that nixon came up with. Where basically if you are a democratic -- democrat, you are black, brown, you are an degrees you are uncouth, this is the way we are being described in the national press. I'm going to give you one article here, this is called across u.s. Redistricting is a never ending battle. One of many articles that came out, I'm going to leave this for the record. But there's a part in here where it talks about democrats also attacked an e-mail notice about the hearing sent out by republicans in houston. Where the photo of representative sheila jackson lee a democrat who is black. The caption said: she'll be there to express her views, it said without identifying her, will you be there to express yours? This is hideous. This is obnoxious, this is not allowed. And we need to stand up against this kind of divisivness that this was done. So we are going to have this southern strategy that divides us, that says that if you are white, you shouldn't be voting with those blacks and those browns. And that's just not okay. That's not okay in Austin, it's not okay in Texas, it's not okay in the united states of america. Thank you so much.
>> thank you.
>> thank you.
>> good morning, judge, Commissioners.
>> good morning.
>> my name is willie lewis, I live at 6708 springdale road. I'm here this morning representing myself and also my pastor, l.k. Jones asked me if I would make a statement in his behalf concerning the redistricting. The -- the -- first let me say personally and -- and not only to you, but to the citizens of Austin, in the last few years, we have gotten a lot of benefits from county government on be-- from government on behalf of lloyd doggett primarily because of his seniority. I will say to the citizens of Austin, let me tell you, the people in the southern part of the state have no concern about medical care in Austin. They have no concern about our airport in Austin. They don't travel ih 35. So if ih 35 never get any better, it won't bother them a bit. But let me tell you, and representative that will be representing our portion of Austin will go home and he won't have to drive or she won't have to drive on i-35, so it won't be a concern to them. And not only that, but our vote won't count enough to get them out of office because it don't count to them. I say to the citizens of Austin, be aware of what you are asking for. Because what you get may not be what you want. Because when a -- when a congressman can go home and representative the left armest majority of his constituents, he don't have to listen or if something is not done for the minority number of the -- of his constituents, that doesn't make any difference because they will either get -- they will get reelected. I will say again, you know, when you go 600 miles or approximately 600 miles from Austin, and talk about what's going on in Austin, I don't know if you travel around the states, but I travel around the states state, everything bad that happens to people in this state comes from Austin, they don't have a lot of good feelings about Austin. It doesn't matter whether we get federal money to improve the airport, to improve i-35 or to improve ih 130, to improve shhh 145. It -- sh 145. It doesn't matter to them. The thing that bothers me most about the -- about the dividing Travis County into three parts, is that -- is that it's not so much, I don't think, intentionally discrimination, but it's divide and conquer. It is -- it is lets be in control because if we don't have to -- if we don't have to deal with the majority of the people that's in Travis County in one district, then we can control Travis County in one -- in the three districts. Because they don't make up a majority in any particular district of the three. I think that's what it's all about. I -- -- I was talking to my pastor reverend jones, he believes it's just a matter of dividing and conquer and trying to be in control. I said again to the citizens of Austin, be aware because -- because I'm going to tell you now, it's a lot of funds and it's a lot of benefit that comes from -- from the federal government in behalf of Austin, Texas and Travis County. That -- that it's possible that we will lose. And I know for a fact if the majority of the population -- of the district is not of Travis County, that interest, the majority of the interests of the person that's representing the district won't be for Travis County. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> thank you councilman.
>> councilmember, are you staying in congressional district 10 or do you get moved to 25? I don't know where springdale road is -- hits.
>> I think that I get moved to 25.
>> no, you are in 25.
>> 25, yeah.
>> wanted to make sure that we get that for the record.
>> south of 290. [multiple voices]
>> willie, what percentage of -- what percentage of voters in 25 will be -- will be in -- in Travis County? I understand that it's somewhere between 30 and 40%? Alfred, you probably know that. Some percentage of voters in the new 25 would be in Travis County? Is that somewhere between 30 and 40%?
>> I think --
>> 39%.
>> 39%.
>> of voters -- [inaudible - no mic]
>> not the voters but the residents in district 25 live in Travis County.
>> so do you not think, willie, that you do -- that 25 would have a chance of being represented by a Travis County elected official?
>> well, it's no doubt that -- that, you know, my theory and -- and i've talked to congressman doggett, is if we can make people understand what they are losing and what they possibly have to gain, we can get anyone elected. And the possibility is there. But the probability is not there. And that's -- that I -- I think that's what the redistricting is working on is the probability of the election and how it will turn out. I mean, they have no certainty of who is going to be elected or from which party. But the probability, because of the numbers it's been changed is there. So -- so I don't think that -- that -- I think that it's a good possibility that the -- that the person that's elected from 25 won't be a resident of Travis County.
>> so do you think that if they are not elected from Travis County but you have 39% of the people that are in that, that those 39% of the people will not mean anything to that congressional person whoever is elected? That is a large block of people.
>> well, that's true. But if you get the other 61% to vote for you, the 39% can't get rid of it. So if you don't do nothing for the 31% [sic] it doesn't make any difference. What I'm saying, I'm not saying that if a person wouldn't do anything for that 39%. But I'm saying the majority of their interests would be where the 61% is located.
>> well, there's not going to be one 61% -- [multiple voices] percentage going all the way down -- the point that I'm trying to make willie is that I'm in 21.
>> right.
>> my congressional representative lives in san antonio.
>> yeah, right.
>> I mean, you know what? I feel like that I can go to that person and say, you know what? I mean I am represented by you, and I have some needs. So I don't think that we just ought to just assume that if you don't elect somebody from Travis County, that all of a sudden none of your needs are going to be addressed or taken care of.
>> I'm not saying that. I'm saying the majority. I'm saying that the representative that represents 21, the majority of the interests for him is in san antonio. And if he -- if he can do something for the minority part of his congressional district, fine. That -- but the majority and the majority of his work is to work toward getting things for san antonio. Like lloyd doggett's majority of his work is to get things for Travis County. So -- so I mean it's just a given. If you can't get rid of him, what difference would it make if you did? If he didn't satisfy your needs, what could you do? Because if he is satisfying the majority of his constituent's needs.
>> I understand what you are saying councilmember.
>>
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>>
>> if you want to go thirds, halves, quarters, you divide that 77,000 folks that are within district 10 and disperse them all over the county. And yes, it has impact. It definitely has an impact. And the impact is that it's diluted. When you take the 77,000 and you say of the 77,000, I'm going to take 27,000 and move them over here to the new district 10. And of that ksz r., It would be two-thirds of the people we're dealing with would be white anglos. So that's further dilution. As far as district 21, where lamar smith is currently the new 21 and where congressman lamar smith resides, you take the 8,000 african-americans and put them in that area, of course now you're saying that that three-fourths of the people in that area are anglos. So that's further dilution of the african-american vote. Residents of Travis County. And of course, lastly, district 25 where you live, and where I reside, is that that will be represented as far as 44,000 of that 77,000 that I was talking about, 80,000 total, will be from here to mexico. So again, that's further dilution. Whereas you have 77,000 before in current district 10, now it's reduced all across the board. Now, that is dilution. That does take away the voting strength. That is the issue at hand here.
>> that's true, Commissioner. And I say for district -- to Travis County residents, we're the only major district in the state without a health district. County without a health district. And if the interest is not there not only from the county and the city, but from the state and from federal government, we may go awhile longer without having a medical district. And I'm not one to say that -- because we don't have a medical district it's going to decrease the possibility of health services for minorities because minorities makes up the minority population of the medical services that's rendered in Travis County. And I say to the people of Travis County, beware that you ask for because, let me tell you, things are not getting any cheaper in the medical -- for medical services, and neither is things getting any better for our transportation system. So whether you be a minority or non-minority or whatever you consider yourself, when you go and vote, it's best to vote for your own interest, so that's my philosophy.
>> thank you for your comments, councilmember. Former councilmember.
>> for purposes of the record we had somebody speak from the audience. That person's name is alfred stance. Make sure that got into the record.
>> good morning. My name is sonya santana. I'm a rez dented of Austin. I live at 2005 barton parkway, which is in precinct 3, current congressional 10, being the new congressional 21. I would like to echo some of the things that have been said, especially what judge murphy and melissa said in terms of the historical perspective and in just taking us back. My parents were migrant farm workers and we traveled across the state and I remember very strongly that one of the things that they wanted to instill in us as children was participation, because when you don't have it, you want it. And it is very important to a democracy to have its citizens participate. Isn't that why we're in a war in iraq, we want to give them a democracy? And yet we're fighting our own here at home in diluting people's participation in our own democracy. And I have been a resident of Austin since 1975. Jake pickle was my congressional representative at that time. And obviously, as I said, lloyd doggett is any congressman now. I'm going to be in the same situation. I'm going to be working for congressman doggett, even though el paso not be my congressman if this plan stands because his values represent what I want to see in congress. And the interesting thing about this, since congressman doggett may have to run for congressional district 25 that stretches all the way to the valley, my mother will be in congressional district 25, and that's going to be very interesting for me. As much as I love my mother and I love my family and I love that we live closer, this is ridiculous. Even my mother says we have don't have any interests in anything that you have in terms of our problems are different from your problems. And here we are at, I believe willie and some other people have pointed out, we're pitting communities of interest against each other.
>> exactly.
>> I'm hispanic. I'm mexican-american. And I don't want to be pitted against my mother in the valley because she's important to me as well. And I don't want to have our interests be more important than her interests or her interests be more important than our interests. We should be represented by somebody different. And when you said awhile ago, Commissioner Daugherty, about being in 21 and how your representative -- you're going to be represented by somebody that you feel if you pick up the phone he's going to listen to you, Austin and san antonio are probably a little bit closer than Austin and the valley. I mean, at least we're two big stz where we're still going to be competing and I would still agree with willie that lamar smith is going to take san antonio's side over us any time because he is elected from san antonio. He's never represented us. So this is going to be different for him. Lloyd doggett, there's no question that when we have a congressional congressman who represents us, he represents our interests. And I wanted to add one other thing that had to do with service in terms again of instilling these values in our young people about participating in the system and not encouraging not to say -- to say it doesn't matter. People with money are the people that decide and your vote really doesn't count, because we're seeing more and more of this in terms of why people don't vote, why our population doesn't vote. But one of the things that I did recently and I'm no longer on the commission, but I was on the community development commission that the city has which oversees the community development block grants here in Austin. And I will say that I think it is very important that we have one congressional district congressman that represents the city as a whole because this is very important in what it has done in the past, what it's doing now and what it will do in our future. And I would have to agree with everyone here that basically has said that when we have no majority control over any one of these districts, how our -- just mathematically, we just don't have a guarantee that we're going to have someone that lives in our city, in our county represent us and represent our interests. And I would certainly hope that you continue to work to ensure that us as citizens here in travis and Austin continue to keep our representation and fight this redistricting. Thank you very much.
>> all right. Thank you. Thank you for your comments.
>> good morning.
>> morning.
>> my name is cheryl robinson. I live at 17015 (indiscernible) pathway. This is the Pflugerville area right before Williamson county in travis. Wiewf had -- you've had all the facts and I agree with the majority of what's been said, especially the last speaker. She spoke mostly of what I would have said. And we the minority people are pleading for a continued voice and to have a representation, have a representative for our concerns. With this dedicated -- with this dictated redistricting, we have chosen to ignore the people and to honor a request of politics, which is winning and holding -- winning and holding control over the government idea. Governmental ideas and already structured agenda. I fear when there's no representation of the black minorities in this political realm, black minorities will search for representation in other ways and other areas. We want a voice, not a silent acceptance of presence. We need representation of all races, not a I think this is what they want. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> thank you for your comments. Thank you.
>> good morning, Commissioners court.
>> good morning.
>> judge Sam Biscoe. My name is barry hall. I'm the second vice-president of the local naacp. I'm also a resident of east Travis County. I live in twin creek subdivision, 16605 deep meadow cove. I'm currently in congressional district 10 and I believe when they redraw the map i'll be in district 10; however, lloyd doggett will no longer be my representative and that's of utmost importance because lloyd doggett is a candidate and a representative of the people. The naacp understands that the redistricting map proposed by the recent legislation if allowed to go unchallenged threatens to real gate the african-american citizens of Travis County to isolation and fragmentation. Not experienced since before reconstruction. It's important. Travis County's 80,000 african-american population will be split into three districts, and I'm going to repeat these numbers so that we're sure that the naacp understands the numbers and understands the impacts of the numbers on the african-american population in Travis County. The fact sheets -- let me repeat them. In district -- congressional district 10, there will be 27,000 african-americans, and 66% white minority district. Congressional district 21 there will be 8,000 african-americans in a three-quarter white majority district. And then the new congressional district 25 is 66% hispanic district. To all fair minded people we understand that this is unacceptable, but from an historical perspective, the naacp understands the true impacts of those type numbers where black people are surely underrepresented in their political party or political aspects. We understand the this affects us economically, affects us socially, affects us edge occasionally. And the republicans in the legislature, through the behest of washington, wants to turn back the hands of civil rights and social justice in this country. The naacp cut our teeth on social justice and civil rights in this country and we want to be on record that we will stand against any type of redistricting such as this and asks the Commissioners court also to stand with us against any type of redistricting that seeks to turn the hands of history back in america to a time where we lived in a place that was unfair, unjust and not for all-american citizens. Thank you.
>> thank you. Very much.
>> my name is willie white, and i've lived in Austin for better than 60 years. And I lived through the days of when my parent could not even vote. And then they came with the poll tax. They could not afford to pay the poll tax because we had to eat. And now we're going back to the same days. I have never seen in the capitol city of Texas that we would not have representation from Austin. And if this new deal goes through, Austin will not have representation. And as mr. Lewis stated, the person that represents -- will look after their own interests first before they look after Austin, Texas. And I think it's unfair to the citizens of Texas, it's unfair to the capitol city of Austin to not have representation. Mr. Doggett has done us well. Also mr. Pickle did us well. And all of that history will go down the drain if this new redistricting map is accepted. And I appreciate you for standing against this and I hope you'll stand firm and not let this map go through and let the federal government know that you think it is unconstitutional and that we need to wait until the time is up for redistricting and they let the chips fall where they may.
>> thank you. Thank you very much for your comments.
>> I'm lyndon phelps. We have different speakers that have come to talk on political issues. Recently we had the naacp. We had a teacher come and talk about funding being cut from allen elementary. We even had someone come and talk about composting. One of the things that i've noticed that we have when we have a dinner and we have speakers afterwards, is that we get to have dialogue. The speaker speaks and then we ask them questions, and we can do that -- we have eye contact like I'm looking at you, and they can understand what we want. And I had this also with lloyd doggett, the same thing, when a big issue came up last year about the war, there was something that he didn't know about that I was able to convey to him about weapons of mass destruction that we brought 20 years ago, the seeds of this that ronald rumsfeld brought saddam hussein some of the beginning technologies of this. And I was able to bring an issue of "time" magazine of last September that talked about this. At first he didn't know what I was talking about and then I quoted the issue of "time" and the article, and I got my information to him. I can't do that in a letter. I can't do that in a letter to washington. I need to be in person talking to him. Now, district 25 where I live and am going to be?i living and voting, that stretches how far? And if lloyd doggett comes to talk to the people of 25, how far away that can be? And maybe the people from san antonio can represent you from where you're at. I heard you say you're in 21, is that right? But is there a representative for me in 25 going to be luling? Or the middle of 25 if it goes way down towards the valley or san antonio or -- how far am I going to have to drive to go talk and to see and have that eye contact with my representative? This is absolutely crazy what they're participate proposing. It taking democracy today. I see two places in the world today that have democracy. And that's bow live gentleman and -- lo live I can't and georgia. And the only way they can get it is the people are going out in the street and they're telling the government no, we don't want these things. You probably haven't heard about this because it doesn't make the mainstream media. But heed the hightower report. There's an article in this week's chronicle. But the point I'm making is I don't want to be out in the street to get my point across to people, I want to go vote. I want to go talk to my representative and tell him what I want so when he gets, she gets to washington they do what I want. Don't take that were a and don't have anything to do with this garbage that's taking away democracy. That's all I want to say.
>> thank you.
>> good morning, judge Biscoe and Commissioners. My name is vera roland givens. I am a long-time Austinite. I grew up here. I was in and out of Austin when this redistricting was taking place. It was the most bizarre thing that I had ever heard of in a land that goes around the world talking about democracy. Now, I feel like a lot of people whose citizenship, whose rights are being violated in my own city, in my own county, in my own state. I don't think that's right for america. There was a map that was accepted, and it should have been left in place. Everyone has said things that I would have said about the speaking points. I am in representative -- congressman doggett's district. I have personal relationship with him. He doesn't always agree with me, but as the man said before, I can contact him and I get a response, and I know it's a response. My family -- my grandfather would go and vote before he would buy groceries. This is when the poll tax was around. They would save their money to be able to pay that poll tax so he could vote. They would make their grocery list out, but my grandfather would say, we're going to vote. And my grandmother would go with him and they would vote. They knew the politicians. My grandfather knew the ones to stay away from. And when you have people who will say my vote doesn't count anyway, I think this really, really reinforces that. It really reinforces that. And it's such a pity. It is such a pity that in a country with as much wealth as we have, we act as if we are bankrupt on democracy. I don't think we should be pitted against each other. I'm sitting here thinking about a map that some constituents over in georgia drew up, and they look like a little snake. That sort of looks like what this is here. And it was denied because the people said, we want someone to represent us. I'll close by saying once I had a conversation with representative mickey leland. And I hope I can get through thisithout crying. Because I really admire him and liked him. We were having a political conversation. It was very brief because he was a very busy man, at the Austin -- stephen f. Austin hotel. And I was talking about how do I become a better citizen. And he said you're doing what you're supposed to do. Well, I had some problems with a candidate at that time, and he told me, I don't care how you feel, you must be pragmatic about this. Go talk to this individual and let this individual know your position. It's okay for him to have his, but it's better to have your representative in the room when decisions are being made about your life, about your children's education, about your community's safety, about your -- what's going to happen to the elderly, about crime in your community. He said, and I think you can do that, but I really do not think that we can have that kind of a dialogue with the way this redistricting has taken place. And I personally think it's not american.
>> thank you.
>> thank you very much. Thank you.
>> anybody else to speak during this public hearing?
>> judge Biscoe and the court, I'm alfred stanley. I testified previously and I was not planning to testify today, and I realize that this is a public hearing where you're gathering testimony, but I would like to make an inquiry. And that is this: as a party to the redistricting lawsuit, having read the paperwork, I understand that this transcript is going to be sent to the justice department from this hearing. Is that correct?
>> I believe so.
>> yes.
>> or will the videotape? The only reason I ask that is because in all the legal documents that i've been involved with it's a little bit peculiar because in every person is identified in the legal documents by race and ethnicity. And I'm just concerned that it may be important if the purpose of the court is gathering this information to have that on the record orally, although -- I don't know if the videotape is going to be sufficient. Not being an attorney, I just don't know that.
>> we really haven't decided that. Do we have item 25 of the agenda? I'll ask them this afternoon if they're ready.
>> I would like to say that I know there are others there who came to speak. I think this is their chance to be on the record if they do want to come up and continue to speak, and that today, you know, just sitting here I noticed that there are just a number of people speaking who were firsts in the community, gus garcia the first hispanic mayor of Austin, harriet murphy, who I believe is the first african-american presiding judge of the municipal court. Willie lewis I believe was the fifth american african-american to serve on the Austin city council. And I just think that the people who spoke this morning were primarily minority voters and need to have their voices heard by the justice department when they're considering what this map does. As i've been reading about redistricting, there are two strategies that are used, systematically by republicans to break democratic influence. They're called stacking and cracking. Stacking is when a district is created that is so heavily democratic that you're getting rid of the democrats to a place where they cannot affect the votes in a republican district. Cracking is where you're dividing the democratic populations up to fragment them. And I would say after looking at this and considering this, that those strategies are being used here in the breakup of congressional district 10. That district 25 is an illegal racial gerrymander under the shaw decision that is packing hispanic voters artificially into a district that has no recognizable community of interest. And that the african-american community of Travis County, Austin and congressional district 10 as it was configured when lloyd doggett was last relekted from it, -- elected from it is an example of cracking, which is taking a population that has historically voted majority democratic and is a protected racial minority under the voting rights act, the african-american population, and cracking it into a chunk that's a little bit more than half that goes into district 25 where it will not have the kind of influence it has in district 10 today. Another chunk, about a third, which goes into district 10, and then about a total of 5,000 voters from old 10 into 21. The remainder. And that's the -- and in case it matters for the record, my name is alfred stanley, begun, and I am -- again, and I am a white anglo voter residing in current congressional district 10, and in the new congressional district 10. Thank you.
>> thank you.
>> judge, I wanted to make sure. I see melinda and dewith our voter registration division. They sent an e-mail to members of the Commissioners court dated November 17th. I'm happy to turn my copy of that memo over to the court reporter so it becomes part of the record. But what they have done, as was in our posting, is that they have put together an analysis of redistricting as it relates to county election precincts. And I think it backs up in a different kind of a way just how profound the line changes are. And i'll turn this in for the record, but of the 267 precincts that we have in Travis County, almost half of the precincts in Travis County will have some kind of a change related to their congressional district, specifically there are eight precincts that are in congressional district 21 that are moving to district 10. There are 52 precincts that are changing from district 10 to district 21. We heard from a few folks this morning on that very issue. We heard even more testimony this morning, there are 69 -- there are 69 precincts that are changing from congressional district 10 to district 25. And this is profound in terms of the number of people that think after the last time we went through redistricting that they know who their representative is and where the lines are. And what was also of specific note is of the 129 precincts that are changing districts, 14 precincts will have boundary line splits. Precincts 101, 103, 121, 137, 138, 150, those are all east Austin boxes, 267, 275, 331, 406, 411, 438, 456 and 460 will require boundary adjustments or have new precincts created as a result of congressional redistricting. There was a huge amount of effort that this Commissioners court went through when we went through redistricting to make sure that the lines of the Commissioners court and our state representatives and our state senators, that all of these lines medicaled together and -- melded together and we didn't have something off by a little amount, and that was really very important when something was splitting off. Because the change in these congressional districts, this is going to throw off a whole lot of other things besides congressional redistricting lines. So I'm going to give this to the court reporter, but I would ask if that's all right will de, if this also be included as part of the official transcript that we send off.
>> you wouldn't have any objection to that, would you, dee?
>> no.
>> I would like to thank the clerk's office, the voters registration office for their particular input on this process. And it's very significant, very timely also that you got this in when you did. And with all the items on the agenda. So thank you very much for your work.
>> and ij it's also important that per the order received from the u.s. District court on November 13th, the voarter registration division and the elections division will be fully prepared to implement either plan, 13, 74-c or the new plan, 1151-c once instructed. And we do have folks from all of these departments attending this public hearing as resource witnesses.
>> did the clerk get the impact as far as the fact sheet on the impact? Did you get a copy of that? Okay. The one that everyone was speaking to of the statistics? All right. Along with that then. All right. Thanks.
>> ms. Lopez, do you have any additional comments?
>> good morning. I'm glad you all received my e-mail from yesterday. Dolores lopez, director of voter registration and gale fisher director of election division for the county clerk's office. Thank you for acknowledging this. It was a really difficult project for us. And we wanted to make sure that you understood what the impact would be to county election precincts. Of utmost importance is the 14 precincts that will have boundary lines split. The court order that we received this past week mentions that we do have to compile a subdivision to the department of justice. Two things I want to note. Number one, we currently have a subdivision in already. Remember, we had five new precincts that were drawn earlier this year that were submitted to the department of justice in October. We're waiting on word from that. Secondly, in order to meet the department of justice's 60-day review period, we must submit this package for the 14 districts or the 14 14 presingsz that have to be redrawn. I believe we need to submit this package probably no later than December the ninth.
>> December nine?
>> December nine, which is three weeks from today, in order to allow 60-day review so that gale and her group can be prepared to inform about polling locations, securing those sites. Right now we can't work any harder at securing official sites because we have a court order that says we can't do that. We can plan, we can be prepared to set forth the elections for the primaries, but we can't inform the public yet about these being official sites. So yesterday in speaking with our assistant county attorney, with the county clerk's office, we determined that we're going to have to get -- and we've already started, as you can tell, being busy toward this end, but it going to really take a three-month effort of putting together a packet to the justice department in a three-week period. We're prepared to do it. We've already started doing it, but just to inform you that we do need your help by today calling December ninth as the day for the public hearing as we're prepared to do, and for the final action on that day. If you do that today for us when you do bring this item up for action, then we can start from the ninth and start working today harder to get that time well spent the next two and a half weeks. Mind you not, thanksgiving is right in the middle of that period, but we will be working hard as groups here together to meet that objective. Again, December the 9th I know is a very short time period. We're prepared to do it without any additional outside help from any redistricting consultant. We have the tools to do it, we have the geographic system, we've got the voter data file, we have a whole lot of history and experience in our office to get this done. So I do need your help in that respect.
>> let me ask legal a question. If -- what I'm understanding, the December 9th time frame, the public hearing and all the other things that's basically being required, does that -- we have also a three-judge panel that will be reviewing and looking at this particular case as far as to see if the current plan is going to be held up. And that starts on December the 8th. As ms. Lopez is suggesting, the public hearing on the 9th and also looking at the court system beginning that process on the 10th, will there be an interference with one or oart? Because the justice department on one end and of course the courts having to deal with what they deal with on the other end and how will they both coordinate this in the manner where folks have time enough to deal with this before the decision is made?
>> tamara may have something to add about the local works, but with regard to the lawsuit, the court has issued that you must be ready regardless of which plan is implemented. To implemented is the 11th of January. Understanding we can't cross the line of implementing anything until we know which plan it is. So what we're talking about here is you have a separate proceeding, judicial proceeding in the federal court, that is looking at we have here locally a requirement to be able to comply at the local level with whatever happens. Now, are there going to be conflicts and difficulties? Absolutely. Primary of which is that we can't begin to implement a plan that has not yet been approved, one way or the other. However, I think what the order has said is that they have to be ready to do it no matter what. Now, the question becomes then for tamara what can we do to be ready for that?
>> tamara?
>> okay. I have some concerns with regard to the submission, but I think we can do it. I can have the submission ready in time. We will have to add some special wording to the order that would allow something to the effect of this -- the previous orders remain in full force and effect, and so does this order, and that's going to be tricky legally a little bit. I do have some concerns and I am considering contacting justices, if that's okay with everybody, to ask them about some of the legal aspects. Because when you submit changes, you do have to have a final order or it's considered a premature submission. So there's a federal regulation to consider as well. And I would like to talk to them about that, and I could draft the submission accordingly.
>> you would like for us to have the public hearing on December 9th?
>> yes, sir, public hearing and an action item that you could approve the orders on that particular day so that we can prepare the documents for the submission that day.
>> okay. So public hearing to receive input on what?
>> on the proposed changes on these 14 precincts that we'll have boundary line adjustments. What this does, I need to warn you, that we don't have a lot of time to call in all the precinct judges and the precinct chairs and get their -- you remember all that, all their feedback. We don't have time for that. Gale has already gone out and driven the precincts to see what polling locations welcome -- are out there. There are some spots that she may want to note that there are no buildings to select. And the choice of course in that document that I sent you shows four precincts that are surrounded by legislative lines. We can't move voters from those precincts to an adjoining precinct because as you mentioned, Commissioner Sonleitner, we worked hard to keep them nice and compact and contiguous the way supposed to. These 14 they didn't take that into consideration. They split right in the middle on the corners. We've done a fairly good assessment right now of determining that we may need as many as eight new precincts, four of which we don't have a choice because they're surrounded by legislative lines. Did you want to mention something?
>> the only thing I wanted to say is the addition of these precincts will have some fiscal impact also. The addition of these precincts will have fiscal impact on the county. We'll have an initial cost of having to equip them with voting equipment. We're prepared for the five new precincts, but we're not prepared for eight or nine more new precincts. So that's the initial impact. There will be ongoing costs -- for an election day precinct it costs about a thousand dollars a precinct on election day. So you'll have that additional cost added.
>> absolutely.
>> we've got enough challenges in terms of keeping people interested, even for all of us that consider ourselves political groupies on stuff to keep track of it. And I heard from many people even when six to nine months of advanced warning, the last time we went through redistricting, that they were surprised to walk into the voting booth and find out that they switched from precinct 2 to precinct 3 or vice versa. And the congressional district that had flipped from congressman doggett to comong man lamar smith. So even with lots of advanced notice there are still surprises. And so people get set enough as it is in terms of when we just have to legitimately split precincts because we exceed the 3,000-person cap on precincts. And they have to keep finding someplace new that they have to vote. And that does in a way disenfranchise folks. So I wanted to make sure that this was part of the record as well related to these kinds of sudden changes could discourage people from even going to the polls and us not even knowing of who's supposed to file. Is congressman supposed to file in the 10th or the 25th?
>> one other note. Along in that court order, it's also very clear that voter registrars cannot send outvoter cards, we can't begin to send them out until January the 11th, it's the very first day we can even begin to?? send out? your renewal voter?i certificates. The current orange one that you have expires December of this year. The blue, the baby blue one that we're prepping right now and getting ready to send out is supposed to be ready to send out, is effective January 1 of '04. And we'll have all of the hopefully correct congressional districts, precinct number and all the other on there, but I can't even get that into the mail until January the 11th. And that is in the court order that I mentioned before.
>> thank you, dee.
>> any questions?
>> that's all I have.
>> thank y'all. Thank you, ms. Lopez.
>> ms. Mcknight, were you on this item or another one? Citizens communication or this item?
>> citizens communication.
>> thank you very much for your input. We appreciate it.
>> move the public hearing be closed.
>> all in favor? That passes by unanimous vote.
Last Modified: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 7:32 AM