Travis County Commssioners Court
October 21, 2003
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Item 19
19 is to consider and take appropriate action on request for directions to management committee including the following, a, the charge or scope of work, b, proposed schedule; c standards for take-home vehicles and d, number of vehicles targeted for reduction. This also is an item that surfaces annually, it seem, we've had the committee sort of working on and off. In my view we ought to decide now whether we're serious about reducing the fleet. I think it would help to give the committee like a target, say, 10%, if we want to reduce it that much, and if we have decided not to take this on, I think now is the time to tell the committee and just let it go. This is an area that we probably control now a little bit more than we did two years al gore, but I'm not sure that we are controlling it as much as we should.
>> I think it needs a little bit more work. And I thought we had talked about some of those issues in our previous conversation. Probably wouldn't hurt to look at it. I'm interested.
>> I'm sorry.
>> I had a real good additional meeting with mike joyce last week, and it really helped me. I'm not near as anxious about fleet as I was but I needed to go back and understand the history of centralalizing what we've done with all of this fleet, that is not to say that all of us I think don't feel that there are some areas that we certainly need to take a look at with regards to some sort of consolidation. I mean I -- without looking at it in great detail, I think that there definitely is some pooling capabilities that we ought to take a look at, but for example, the reason that I'm not as I guess as excited about, you know, what's going on with fleet is because I really do realize that most of your fleet other than what tnr has with, you know, their needs, is really law enforcement folks. I mean that to include the constables. Now, I think that, you know, we're going to get into some philosophical concepts whenever it comes to talking about what you do and what's allowed, you know, by the constables. But given that the majority of our regular what you would call vehicles, I think that mike talked about, you know, the regular sedans, the s.u.v.s, some of the light trucks which really constitutes probably three-quarters of our fleet. Law enforcement is something that I'm going to have a real difficult time saying I think you need to watch your mileage, I think you need to watch this, I think you need to watch that. I guess what I'm saying is is that I would be comfortable in being part of looking at some of this fleet management, but I think that once we really sit down and determine exactly what the savings might be in this, we might find that it's not as large as what I thought. Now, maybe I could be -- I could be proven wrong on that, judge, I know this is something you felt pretty fervently about since i've been here and I'm willing to take your direction and I'm willing to be involved in this because I am interested in it, but you let me -- why don't you tell me what you think really needs to happen with this and i'll -- i'll participate in anyway you would like.
>> well, whatever general standards we adopted years and years ago is now being interpreted in various ways by managers who really have to make the call. And so in my view we really don't have a standard. We have many standards. And I can live with a zero reduction but I really think we ought to know what standards are being applied, where the vehicles are, why they need to be there, which ones are being taken home, if we reduce the number of take home vehicles, what are the other costs, you know, typically, if you reduce the fleet by a certain size and you've got pool vehicles and pay mileage reimbursement, then there are some costs there, so I don't think we should just go through this exercise to do it, but I think being complete in form is porcht that way I can tell the taxpayers that ask me why we have the number of vehicles that we do. Right now, no matter what I say, even I feel a little guilty about saying it because I'm not sure that I'm being truthful because I really don't know.
>> well, they need updating, though. I think some of them need updating, there's no doubt about i, and it doesn't matter what function we look at, everybody deserves some accountability and review from time to time, and so I think it needs to get done.
>> I mean I think we ought to take a comprehensive serious look at it and put it to rest.
>> uh-huh.
>> as it is right now, though, it surfaces two or three time as year.
>> yeah.
>> wherever we land on it is fine with me, but I would like to think that the landing results from poor information, our knowledge of it, and basically comes to terms from different managers what are making the call.
>> sure. You're rite on target and there are three things that I have interest in. Rather than using the word down size, I would like to use the word right size, because -- and I mean that in terms of the number, just needs to match what our current needs are and our current missions and that may mean they need a big trunk or a small trunk, it needs to be right sized. The other thing that seems to be still lingering out there is if we have have this fleet centralized, I think there's still some misunderstandings, discrepancies, needing to look down i'll call it service level agreement, because if you say, well, fleet is supposed to do this on our behalf, I'm hearing rumblings back from the department that say yeah, we still have to do x, y, z and it seems like there needs to be a locking down of who does what. What are the expectations? Can you dump off a car at 4:00 and expect to get it turn around in fifteen minutes? There needs to be somber understandings on service level, i'll use the word agreements so I'm not talking about a formal document or maybe I am. This is my continual drum with Commissioner Gomez and that has to do with the claims n centralalizing this stuff there's still an issue that i've got with claims that come in and there seems to be no tying it back in terms of accountability to departments of, okay, here we go, we're going to pay for these vehicles getting wrecked. We had on our agenda today, I checked them, they were all on -- four of them were sheriff's vehicles, wrecked sheriff's vehicles. We've got to be some way we can tie back the accountability on this and Commissioner Gomez and I were exploring om interesting ideas why we were down corpus christi, not the ones in the scope and course of duty, that is a separate things, bad things happen, but these are the avoidable absolutely just, you know, felony stupid kinds of stuff of there doesn't seem to be any kinds of penalty to the department of, well, we'll get you a new vehicle. If half of the dollar amount of the replacement vehicle got taken off of the top of your target budget for next year to reimburse risk management, that would certainly get people's attention in terms of there's accountability on the behalf of the whole department, like there's a cost to this literally, but there's got to be some way that we can instill more accountability, like, oh, darn, I wrecked a car, and there are no consequences and when dealing with elected officials we can't get involved in how that person gets coached or whatever. But where we can get their attention is how much money they get appropriated to them the following budget year, and I'm just -- that's where my interest is on fleet is dying it into what [inaudible] has to deal with on a weekly basis, tying it into these claims that -- i've said enough.
>> I don't want law enforcement to get the impression that I'm trying to cut them off at all because that is not it, because I understand their importance out in the community is top, top priority to constituents so I want that to continue, but where there are preventable accidents and they're not -- your primary responsibility is not to chase people. Then -- or law breakers. Then I think you wreck a car, you should expect to get a car that is used and not get the brand-new one that comes in because we're rewarding people for having preventable accidents and I think there's some accountability that needs to occur there. But I don't think that we ought to -- law enforcement is not -- I mean I want accountability but that's not where I'm focusing on right now. I'm focusing on the preventable accidents that i've read about here year after year after year and we buy the new cars and we reward them by giving them the brand-new car, and I -- you know, I don't know if they're being sent for training to how to be a better driver, how to prevent an accident, it is possible to prevent accidents and it's possible to drive for many years without having an accident, and but -- but when you're rewarded with a brand-new car and, gosh, you know, we'll just ask taxpayer for more money and nobody has to be held accountable for it and it's just a little too lax for my comfort.
>> well, I don't have enough history, I suppose. I can't imagine that there's an officer that goes out there and doesn't do everything within their power to not have a wreck. And I guess there's probably some history, or we can compare...
>> plenty. 8 years' worth.
>> ... Or we can compare counties and find out what percentage of these sorts of things happen. But, you know, I probably wouldn't couch it that they're being rewarded with a new car, because you've got to give law enforcement the kind of equipment that they -- that they need. Now, I don't know, I mean do you go through continuous training when you are trying to apprehend? I'm sure when they take out after someone the last thing they're thinking about is, gosh, I hope I can catch this person without getting in an accident.
>> joe, let me give you -- my top three favorite accidents over the nine years i've been here. Quick. The person that put the armor all on the brake pedal and then it slipped and there was an accident. Okay. That's number one. There was a person who had a take home vehicle who as they were pulling their take home vehicle out of the drive way smash into the their personal vehicle, so we had to pay for the take home vehicle and then the personal vehicle and then of course another department who decided to, at an intersection, up near howard lane I think it was, who hits the brand-new straight off the parking lot jaguar. It's just stuff that is just out there. There have been things related to law enforcement, god bless them, but there have been some things where they just weren't paying attention to a stop sign. Conditions were clear, there was nothing, they just weren't thinking about that at that moment and it doesn't mean that they're not a good person or a great officer, but that moment in time it had nothing to do with a chase or anything else, it's just slide on it n and keep going.
>> preventable accidents.
>> and then some of these claims were just -- will just curl your hair.
>> I think we need some more information on that.
>> any opinions from the frustrated committee members?
>> joe? [laughter]
>> [inaudible - no mic]
>> come forward.
>> come on down.
>> how are you?
>> fine.
>> I'm the fleet manager for the sheriff's office. I've been fooling around with these cars for about 25 years. There's some miss conceptions that i've been listening to this morning that I would like to clear up. One, yes, there are armor alled brake pads nine years ago, por break pedal, let me tell you what happens when the officer gets in a collision. I'm one of those officers, i've been in a collision, had my first one in 25 years here just recently. Comprehensive reports are written, videos are taken, measurements are taken, roadways are blocked off, if the vehicles aren't drivable, the officer has to give a blood test to see if he's under the influence of any type of alcohol or elicit substance. That's done at the jail and handled like it was evidence. He has to write reports as a lieutenant or sergeant, those are reviewed, opinions, recommendations for discipline are given, and in my ten, 25 years plus years here i've seen people that were not at fault that did not receive any discipline. I've seen them receive letters of counseling, letters of reprimand, days off, up to including termination. I've seen them removed from the patrol division and reassigned to the jail where they would not have opportunity to drive a motor vehicle. We're very conscious and we're very meticulous in handling these collisions from an administrative standpoint. Yes, there's going to be dwhua. It's going to happen. You can figure that out, karin, you're smart. It's going to happen. We're going to hit a new jaguar. I saw one time when we went to pick up the ten cars that we got every year, 8 for patrol, one for the supervisor that we had, and one spare just in case we wrecked a car. Well, we wrecked it on the way back from lake johnson. Okay? Someone ran a red light and t boned the car and wrecked it. The other miss conception is I give these people new cars. I manage the fleet, I can tell you what they drive, when they wreck a new car, the four of which you're speaking of have not been ordered yet, nobody is driving them because they're not even purchased. They get older pooled vehicles. We don't reward them with a brand-new crown victoria, or they do into what we call sharing. If karin takes a car home and she's wrecked her car, she might have to use my car or your car. That's how we do I we all watched dragnet years ago, they started with a car and they were down to a scooter by the time they kept wrecking the cars, well, it's pretty similar here. Also when we talk about reduction in fleet, i've reduced this fleet by over 60 cars this year, and we'll have that completed once the new cars are issued. They're still sitting on the tarmac due to computer glitches, not anything to do with tnr, they've done a beautiful job working with us to get those cars out. We've got a computer problem. We've got to get the cameras in the car. They may be here now. But, we made some great strides on streamlining this fleet especially out at del vallely. We've been working with mike joyce and don weaver, and they've provided me auxiliary vehicle, those are vehicles that are old, because we don't need mileage, we need a serviceable vehicle, we've worked on the policy which I forwarded to your office. So we've revamped a lot of things here and we've to the we -- we've got some work to do. But I think we were the envy of the fleet association conference that I went to in san francisco -- I wish it were san francisco -- in san antonio in August, and they asked me, how do you people get this beautiful take home, I said because we have good rapport with our Commissioners and they believe in providing the best law enforcement they can. When there's a tornado, sheriff frasierer put about 80 vehicles in 45 minutes on the road. There's no agency in this area that I know of that can do that in that short amount of time. So you're to be congratulated and, yes, we do have goofs at times and mistake, but I would venture to say that there are five people up here right now, at least one of you had an accident some time in your lifetime or received a citation. I know I have. As a 16-year-old boy I received a lot of them. So, you know, be patient with us. And recognize the streamlining that we've done this year. We've done an excellent job. I mean i've had 400 vehicles, I'm going to have you down to 360, 345, as soon as I can get the new cars out. Thank you.
>> well, thanks. I appreciate the update.
>> and constable also says that is the policy as well. If you wreck a car you get the oldest one and you're not rewarded as well, and jamie, I did figure out dwhua. You knew I would good morning are you on the committee?
>> no, but I sure would like to be.
>> you're on there now.
>> we need to add you on there.
>> be nice to have 100%.
>> jer gee pickering, jamie page, don wheeler? Who else do I need? Anybody from pbo?
>> kristen.
>> kristen?
>> I think these are pretty much the same program, I don't know...
>> yeah, purchasing.
>> jessica rio handles the vehicles for our office.
>> okay. Okay.
>> [inaudible]
>> Ron dube.
>> anybody from the court on this one?
>> me.
>> i'll serve on that, also.
>> is it in terms of [inaudible] simply because of things related to claims, risks, et cetera...
>> uh-huh.
>> dan to be put on there. Dan, is that okay? Sorry, you shouldn't have been sitting there. [laughter].
>> we probably ought to have the November 12th date for issues.
>> okay.
>> I know y'all have been doing some work on it, but probably wouldn't hurt for us to see the list of issues and give some feedback. We have it back on November 12th.
>> okay.
>> I think i've captured most of the names. What if we come up with a master list of members of different committees so we can share those. Maybe try to do that by next Tuesday... Anything else on item number 19?
>> judge, you don't need a motion on 18 or 19, just...
>> just direction.
>> I think just direction.
>> okay.
>> and members, which we've done a pretty good job of, I think. In terms of social services contracts and health care services, anybody from pbo, from purchasing?
>> [inaudible - no mic]
>> they're conferring? Okay.
>> anything else on number 19?
Last Modified: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:52 PM