Travis County Commssioners Court
November 26, 2002
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Item 3
Number 3 to discuss northeast metro park phase ii, project ii - baseball complex master plan and take appropriate action. (commissioner Sonleitner)
>> judge, thank you, roy turlly and charles [inaudible] will make the presentation, basically the first step as related to the phase 2 improvements to northeast metro park. This was originally funded in 1997. All of those improvements have been completed. This is now phase 2 of the 2001 bond authorization. And the piece has had not been master planned in terms of what we are going to do out there is the baseball piece. We have already done soccer, that's why the soccer piece of this has already moved forward with the construction contract. And so charles is going to run through with us the public process that gets us to this point and it is our hope that we can get approval of the master plan so this project can move forward into actual design documents for another construction project.
>> my name is charles burg with t.n.r., I want to introduce mr. Turly, and wayne carper with carter burgess, our consultant and of course wendy who is our parks planner. The little background on this project, it dates -- this is a project from the '91 bond election. The citizens advisory committee back at that time recommended this project, part of a $28.6 million package that was for county-wide voter approved bonds. We have gone through a public participation process, which has brought in the community at Pflugerville, Pflugerville pony league association, and of course the city of Pflugerville to help us work over the design concepts for this facility. Northeast metro, you all are -- are familiar with the -- with the original facility that went in out here back in '97 as a result of the '97 bond election. We have 10 fields right here with the concession and restroom and parking. In the first phase of construction, with the 2001 bond election, we have -- you all awarded a contract just recently for -- for four soccer fields, four multi use fields on this side, with parking and concession. The second phase of this bond program involves 59 acres. That's this ball field complex, two four-plexs, baseball fields over on this side. If you notice, pecan drive is up here. [inaudible] drive is down here. We have [inaudible] creek bisecting the park through here. The city of Pflugerville's wastewater treatment planted is right over here and -- plant is right over here. We have worked out an arrangement where we are going to have shared access down our main entry road. They are going to pay for the construction of this portion of the road into the four-plex complex. The amenities for this project include 8 fields, there are three different sizes of fields. We have a type 1 field, which has a 200-foot foul line and a 125-foot pocket, center field pocket, then we have a type 2 field, we have three type 2 fields, which have 250-foot foul lines, with a 275-foot center field pocket. And then the -- we have two large fields, which we call type 3 fields, which have 300-foot foul lines with a -- with a 350-foot center line pocket. Did I get that correct?
>> uh-huh.
>> okay. In addition, the -- the foul line fencing will be six feet high with an 8-foot high fence in the center field pocket. We will have netting to protect the spectators from foul balls over the center portion of the four-plexs. We have restroom concession facilities, playscape, parking area which has room for 305 cars. Irrigation will be provided by the city of Pflugerville with our -- under our current interlocal agreement that we have with Pflugerville. What else am I missing here? Landscaping, dugouts, score boxes. We will have two batting cages and two warmup mounds per each four-plex. Two sets here, two sets over on this smaller complex. Um ... We will have -- currently we have plans for lighting on the main complex and if the budget allows us, we will have lighting on the secondary project, secondary set of fields here. If not, we will add it as a phase in a future expansion. Turf grass will be common bermuda. We may expect princess variety if the budget permits. The total project budget is $2.4 million. The city of Pflugerville has committed, but we have not worked out an interlocal with them, but they have committed additional funding to -- to enhance the amenities for this facility. And we hope to bring that back to the court in the coming months. The project completion is the summer of 2004. This could ranch comet back -- ratchet back a little bit depending on how quickly we can get the turf grass grown back on the fields.
>> charles, do you want to very briefly walk through the public involvement process in terms of the groups that we met with and to get their consensus, especially on things like how deep the center field fence line was, we went through a great deal of discussion with.
>> yeah, we worked with john stockton, lee story and wes ham, who are board members with the Pflugerville pony league association. They were pretty specific on their needs out at this facility. In order for us, they were telling us in order for this facility to get the use that -- that Pflugerville could provide it, we needed to make modifications to -- to our plans. And we complied with their request. We sized the fields based upon their expected needs, number of players that they have in their youth programs up there in Pflugerville. So we have worked quite extensively with -- with the sport associations up there. Trying to taylor this facility to meet their needs. Tairl this facility to -- tailor their facility to meet their needs.
>> and also charles and roy and I went on some site visits to see other complexes around the state, the same way that we did on soccer to kind of steel their best ideas and to learn from other mistakes. One of the most impressive complex that's we saw was down in brenham, which is just an amazing public facility that they have got down there. So we have got some very good discussions and relationships that have formed with other complexes around the state. So again we could learn from the good stuff and not repeat their mistakes related to the placement and numbers of bathrooms and parking and those kinds -- just the movement through this facility. I want to go on record here for the number of bathrooms here.
>> that's a big deal for me.
>> we learned this. The men's will have three toilets, three urinals, three lavatories. The womens will have 7 toilets and three lavatories. Let you know that we are taking into consideration the demands --
>> that's good hearing that you have.
>> absolutely.
>> the other really cool thing is with us getting the extra 59 acres which we got through a process working with some communities and the city of Pflugerville, this is going to allow us to kinds of subdivide the 410 acres so that we will have the baseball distinctly occurring in one section of the park and soccer occurring distinctly in another piece of the park so you could literally have simultaneous tournaments going on and they will each have their own areas and be able to work through the different kinds of traffic things. It's not like you are going to have to go through the soccer piece to get to the baseball. You will have down the same entrance and then hook a right for baseball and proceed on ahead for soccer. It's really going to allow us to have very good use, I want to congratulate wendy and all of the folks over in park planning for listening -- listening very carefully to the community about what they wanted and of course we love roger elcorey in terms that he's going to bring this project in once again on budget and on time like he did on phase 1.
>> is there anything else that I --
>> fantastic.
>> [inaudible]
>> face 1 on the middle one there.
>> phase 1 is right here. These fields right here, 10 fields.
>> on the middle one, where is phase 1.
>> right over here.
>> no. Wrong map.
>> that one. [inaudible]
>> oh, this one right here, phase 1, right here. This is where the current fields are.
>> okay. And then the expansion when you guys approved here, that first phase of project 1 of phase 2, this is project 2 of phase 2 over here.
>> the baseball fields --
>> yes.
>> for those who have not played organized sports for many, many years, what -- what are the different types of -- of fields other than the -- what the distance of the -- of the home run line?
>> yeah, basically. Well, the other adult fields could not utilize these larger fields, but the main difference is the foul lines and the depth of the center line pocket.
>> that's important regarding the age of the participating participants?
>> that's correct.
>> the young people are hitting those home runs much longer these days, judge, than they did in the past for some reason.
>> must be the aluminum bats.
>> technology. [multiple voices]
>> you can hit a long ways using an aluminum bat versus a wooden bat.
>> so how important to the project is the Pflugerville I guess verbal commitment?
>> well, they seem to be committed to it. They -- I will have to see if they can deliver on it. But we have the impression today, they are real interested in the success of this project because they have -- they just don't have enough facilities in their area. So -- so they are committed to the success of this -- we will bring it to you all here in the coming months for approval and see where it goes.
>> what you have described to us today is what we get from the Travis County commitment?
>> that's correct.
>> yes.
>> that's correct. And it's all budget driven. If we have the mope and we are getting good prices -- if we have the money and we are getting good prices with our current, recent bids, we have the mope within the budget, we can stay within the contingency, we can add the amenities, if not we will have to refer them to a later phase and if Pflugerville steps in with additional funding we can enhance the facility with their money. Okay.
>> but again we are not dependent on Pflugerville saying yes to be able to move ahead with our piece of it.
>> absolutely.
>> this basically enhancement. They had some bond moneys that they approved and then when it turns out that they wanted to [inaudible] to this project, so much less expensive, they went well, cool, we may still have moneys to throw into this. So there have been very good discussions with steve jones, who is the city manager in Pflugerville, again as charles said, Pflugerville wants to see this project succeed because the last thing they want is a facility that's incomplete and it doesn't accomplish all that it can do. So they are -- they are standing ready with some enhancement dollars. But as charles presented, we are not dependent upon them to make this plan.
>> what additional personnel do we think we will need to operate this additional phase of the project.
>> we have crunched those numbers. Those will basically come in a subsequent budget submittal. So -- so -- but I would imagine roy, I'm thinking off the top of my head, that --
>> you know, at this point, between the -- between the additional soccer fields and multi use fields, and the additional eight ball fields, there's a potential of needing up to 15 additional employees. Police the additional equipment. These are all preliminary numbers as we've looked at it. Currently we have one real mower doing 10 fields, it's been ran continually, every day. To keep up with those fields. So -- so the anticipation of additional equipment and full-time employees is -- is coming up in '04.
>> two more quick questions, I guess. That being '04 budget impact, it will be for the summer, through the end of the fiscal year next year.
>> right.
>> so the '04 hit will be small. Correct? To --
>> that's correct.
>> it is -- let me clarify something. It's possible that -- we in our endeavor to -- to develop the sophistication to run these four field, we believe we probably can get different types of equipment that can expedite our mowing process. In that we may not need as many as 15 f.t.e.'s, probably the worst case, if we get -- our biggest problem out here is the big soccer fields. I mean, they just take a lot of time. If we can -- if we can get larger mowers that can mow more acres per hour, that allows us to become a lot more efficient about our activities.
>> so the organized activities we do charge a small -- a small fee, I guess.
>> not for youth. Youth under state law, uses these facilities for free, other than they do have to pay a nominal fee for concessions. Adult leagues do have to pay. We have a lot of adult use out on the soccer field. They share it with the youth soccer leagues here in Austin.
>> okay. I guess at some point -- in preparation for the next budget process, we need to look at -- to look at possible revenue and cost.
>> absolutely.
>> and we would be -- we would be wanting to have the same discussions, judge. Because the same improvements that are going in at southeast metro would also be going online. It would not be just for this park. We would have to be looking at all of the parks. I'm not really sure of the time table on east [multiple voices] I -- [multiple voices]
>> east metro will probably be '05.
>> I believe the fall, '04-'05 transition for east metro. It costs to build one, but costs more to operate it. If you are talking about 10 to 15 additional f.t.e.'s it can get to be a substantial amount of money.
>> well, the equipment -- we are finding with the specialized equipment we can run it a lot in that -- like roy was mentioning that one real mower up there is -- is operating quite a number of kays a week. And -- days a week. These type of fields require that type of specialized attention.
>> okay. Any other questions or comments? I guess from roger, for our being able to plan for the budget process, do you know if -- in your field the ratio that we would have for every several thousand dollars that we would put into a facility like this, how many personnel would that require. There isn't any such formula?
>> not -- not really. [inaudible]
>> so it's -- [multiple voices]
>> it depends on each facility.
>> [inaudible - no mic]
>> and I'm -- the reason I'm asking is because that would give us an idea of what it would require so that we can keep a facility running if it -- efficiently and -- and effectively.
>> actually, commissioner, we are in the process of working out a costing system to be able to identify such things.
>> okay.
>> because as we get into these new metro park, we are finding that our estimates are off.
>> right.
>> because we have no idea of the work that's involved, the cost of the equipment. So we are working closely this year to try and get more synchronized into what it costs to run a metro park with this kind of -- this many ball fields, this many soccer field. So that we could have a formula that says for every one soccer field we add a half a person or a quarter of a person, whatever the case may be. And so we are looking at that and we are working closely with roy and charles to get to that.
>> okay.
>> is that [inaudible] though the -- the equipment that may reduce personnel -- proper equipment, you know, including equipment thawblg that we invest in capital, because there may not be a need to invest in f.t.e.'s if the capital is sufficient to not increase f.t.e.
>> we are learning daily. Roy and charles attended a Texas a&m and u.t. And -- and every week we learn something new about the equipment that we purchase. Because we then purchased the right thing initially and we have too many of the little ones and we need bigger ones. So we are learning daily as we get into this field. It is new to us. We hopefully will be better when we prepare our budget request in '04.
>> I look forward to that. I can wait. But I thought maybe if they can start looking at that, then we can, you know, be better prepared to make the decisions as well.
>> carol's comments about the [inaudible] system will help us dramatically, if we can get a good season under our belt, which I believe we will, by the time we do come around for the budget, we will have a pretty good handle on what our costs are on -- on the man hours required to -- to maintain these different facilities, the restrooms, fields, what have you. We will --
>> one thing that was thought about heavily before we even started one thing on this park was water. Because we knew that there would be tons of water that would be needed for -- for what will soon be 18 soccer fields and baseball fields. That's a lot of grass. We are blessed that just down the block from here is the Pflugerville wastewater treatment plant and they have got that tied to effluent that is usable on sports fields. And we got the deal of the century with the city of Pflugerville, basically at cost of 50 cents per 1,000 gallons. So one of those cost containment areas we have already fought very heavily, that's why we went through such a good due diligence process on east metro, others, what's your water supply. That's something we have all got. Just for perspective in terms of this park, it's 410 acres. Zilker park is 350. So we are talking about a major facility in terms of the size and the thousands of people that will be cycling through and using this park like zilker is loved, but you don't want to love it to death. We are being very cautious about how this place is zoned out, we think through a lot of these operational issues about where we place the maintenance facility, kind of equipment, it is still a learning process, we are learning an awful lot about grass.
>> commissioner Gomez, you asked about the [inaudible] ratio, I have the ratio almost [inaudible] for facility management, maintenance. [inaudible] but that cannot be applied to --
>> right, yeah.
>> it has to establish a different staffing ratio for the --
>> I understand. Thank you.
>> but instead of starting 15 f.t.e.'s and working our way down, let's start with one and work our way up. [ laughter ]
>> give us the right equipment, we will --
>> the equipment is very important.
>> commissioner daugherty.
>> I don't know exactly what the protocol here is, but commissioner Sonleitner I'm more than happy to assist in -- you know, several opinions about this. As most of us know in this community, pleasant valley sports plex that I built and operated for 17 years, there are lots of key issues here that you need to make sure that you do on the front end. I'm more than happy to bring that expertise to the table unless you have gotten so far down the road that you don't need it. I ran a 33-acre sports complex that had everything from softball to marbles. And I did it with -- with four maintenance people. We would have twice as large of a project here, but there are economies of scale that you can really bring to the table. If you do some right things on the front end of this. You are -- are you going to oversee this -- are you going to overseed it? If you do, you are never going to stop m.o.u.ing it. If you put in (inaudible) strips, saving you lots of man-hours with regard to weeding, things like this. Is the whole project irrigated? Is it a central system irrigation?
>> just the sports fields. Actually the sport fields, but also --
>> soccer.
>> the soccer common areas we do have some irrigation out there. But primarily the sport fields.
>> so the fields themselves.
>> uh-huh.
>> softball and soccer.
>> that's correct.
>> there's a giant we will call it a lake, a lake is not really an accurate word, but there is a giant "lake" where the water is pumped over from Pflugerville it gets aerated in there, goes out through the system. So we have the ability to store onsite the actual water before it actually goes out into the complex.
>> uh-huh.
>> well, I will just offer, if there's anything that I can bring to the table, please bring me in. Otherwise, I will sit back and watch it.
>> second.
>> I will move approval of the master plan which will allow everybody to move forward in terms of construction documents and bringing forward this project to the court.
>> I would like to also, if you will accept this as a friendly, include the -- the work I guess as soon as possible from t.n.r. Staff to look at the possible investment in the capital to offset f.t.e.'s and anything that commissioner daugherty could offer as far as looking at reducing cost would also be accepted, if you would accept that as a friendly, I think we really need to give them a direction and get that started.
>> very friendly to me. [multiple voices]
>> yes.
>> so we have all of these parks, but I think we need to be holistic in this whole process and look for savings if we possibly can for the equipment versus capital versus f.t.e.'s.
>> it is never too early to start planning for opening this park.
>> right.
>> that's friendly to me.
>> uh-huh.
>> thank you.
>> I'm hoping it will happen.
>> do we think that we will get a formal response from -- from Pflugerville early enough to incorporate that -- that part into the master planning?
>> that is our plan. Yes. I'm not sure what the timing-wise on this -- when this thing will be ready to go to bid. Roger, do you have that information?
>> yes, I think from now -- when we have the approval of the master plan, we will have about five months of design to go for the [inaudible] design the construction documents, it's going to be five months from now to go to bid.
>> can we just let them know that, look, the court approved the master planning, would you let us know about it, we would incorporate your assistance into the plan and -- and at least that would put them on notice we are proceeding.
>> certainly, we will add it, we will encourage them to move along with that interlocal.
>> any more discussion of the motion? All in favor? That passes by unanimous vote.
>> thanks, you all.
>> thank you, wayne.
Last Modified: Wednesday, April 2, 2003 10:25 AM