Travis County Commssioners Court
November 12, 2002
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Item 6
Number 6 is to discuss proposed -- 6 is to discuss proposed alternative aesthetics promgz in association with sh 130 and take appropriate action.
>> good morning commissioners, good morning. Rose from tnr. The state highway 130 design build contractor, lone star infrastructure, which we call lsi, is having a couple of charrettes real soon. And we wanted to for one thing inform the court about these charrettes. They have to do with making the highway more aesthetically pleasing and also to combine some of our aesthetics into the design of the highway itself. And so we also wanted to kind of give you some ideas and some recommendations from us about what we thought might work real well with the design of the road. And so we wanted to present a couple of these ideas to you and get your feedback to what you think about them.
>> do we have a deadline to get these to the state?
>> well, there's not really a deadline. The charrettes are short of like a two-way feedback kind of thing where we would present some ideas. And if we had the court feedback, then we could probably -- we would be able to say to the owe tow lsi that this is something the court would like to see. And, of course, the court -- it's a public meeting, so everyone is invited. Those meetings are November 13th at del valle high school. And then November 14th in hutto high school. And both meetings are from 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. So that's coming up real soon. The -- the ideas we're thinking about are there's -- actually, two pedestrian links, bike-ped links. One is from northeast park to connect with old settlers park to the trail to the north, and this would be in conjunction with Williamson county as well as city of Round Rock. This would be like 29,280 linear feet from 130 at Pflugerville to the Travis County line. And then there would be other into the Williamson county line up to old settlers park. And the portion of Travis County we're talking about a cost of around 750,000 for -- and they would be -- we're just trying to give them an idea of how much this would cost, not that they would cost participate because they're not really asking for that, although they will give us bonus points if it's something connected to something we've already had money put into, which is the northeast metro park. And if it's a grant trail it would be less expensive, of course, the concrete would be about 1.8 million approximately. That's just an estimate. And then we're also talking about three pedestrian bridges, perhaps, to be built under the vehicular crossings at onion creek, colorado river and then gill land creek, sort of like the pedestrian crossing at town lake and under mopac. Also in conjunction with the colorado river cross, we're talking about perhaps a small boat ramp at the colorado river in conjunction with the lcra river -- colorado river trail perhaps. And then we estimate that the crossings under those creeks would be around $540,000 each. Other ideas would be -- this is not necessarily an extra cost to txdot or to lsi. They have approximately five to $10 million. That also includes things in conjunction with the structures of the bridges, any decoration or motif that is decided that this corner should have. But we're talking about elimination or reduction of highway related lighting on state highway 130 between the colorado river and state highway 71 below the Travis County and southeast metro park because we do have a viewing area that we've invested in there. And then tree plantings, other landscapings at intensive intersections or interchanges. Design water retention ponds that are built in conjunction with this project so they're aesthetically pleasing. And then landscape median along the length of the corridor. And have spots where people could actually access them. And also make sure that they use the native prairie grasses that we have available here.
>> and so it's xeriscaping.
>> yes.
>> you've got a really good starting place for us to give feedback to the state. The one thing that struck me is when you use the word aesthetics, it almost sounds like it's the stuff to make it pretty, and I think what we're talking about -- and rather than using that word is we're asking the state to incorporate best practices in urban design planning and accommodate and integrate this community's expectations related to bikes and pedestrians improvements, which are part of our campo plan and the metropolitan trails master plan and vision for this quarter.
>> right. Could you e-mail that wording to me?
>> I could do that. The other thing I found lacking on here, and this is something that representative krusee has mentioned many times that he wants to dreag draes in the next legislative session is that is advocating that there be a banning of billboards in this corridor. And if you don't allow them to begin with, you then do not have to buy them out after the fact. And that this is a corridor that if there are no billboards allowed in there other than highway signage, then we would be eligible for a lot of monies out of the feds, specifically related to these kinds of corridors where you don't have the billboards. And I think that's something that ought to be looked at. And scenic Austin is also advocating that. A third point, and I will give you this all in an e-mail. Txdot/tta is looking at siting a maintenance facility somewhere in Travis County along the 130 corridor so that they can position their maintenance vehicles. And we need to make sure that that location is also consistent with good planning and that they cooperate and collaborate with the jurisdictions that would be involved. And this thing not be some kind of blight on the landscape or create a blight on somebody else's landscape because there's a lot of heavy equipment, they can be noisy, so we need to make sure that that is also compatible with good design planning. The final thought I would say is that we need to show them that in terms of some of the things that we're suggesting is that we are -- we stand ready to partner as opposed to this is on your tab, figure it out. Certainly related to the northeast metro trail. That is something we've already got an allocation set abeside sooid with capital metro related to using capital metro monies that are part of the build greater Austin project to use potentially as a match for an stp 4 c grant related to a trail. And I think that's the kind of thipg that again shows collaboration. If it goes through fril Pflugerville, we work with Pflugerville on the them thing, with Williamson county on the same thing. We show the regional collaboration. And I think unfortunately we will have to look at concrete versus gravel in that region because of the way that the -- the squishy clay stuff and the way that we get the inundations from the creeks, brushy, gille land, will barringer, you would have that thing washed out at every opportunity. That's what all the trails are in the Pflugerville area. If it had to go with the concrete because everything gels got wiped out. But I think any way that we can show partnering and that we're able to step up to the plate would be helpful. And I will e-mail you all of those.
>> if you could incorporate all of those things that she added to the list that's here and go ahead and submit that.
>> elaine, I guess -- I know that the public hearing which you mentioned, the one up in hutto and then the other at del valle, it would -- there have been a lot of I guess input into the community to ensure that the persons attend these particular public hearings. But along with that we have just a very finite amount of money that has been set aside for txdot to do a lot of these things, the hike and bike trail to the pedestrian crossings, to doing the lights, which I don't think would be a heck of an expense, but those pedestrian crossings I think may be one of the most expensive ones, especially if you need to go through the creeks and things like that, but also looking at parallel trails, trails of parallel activities to the sh 130 alignment. Of course, I think commissioner Sonleitner brought up a good point, and that is the location of the heavier equipment. And of course we want to make sure that the design of sh 130 is as friendly as possible to the region in which it going to be located. I do not know if txdot, when they will address the location of the heavy equipment project location. I really don't know where they can actually house those particular unit. And I'm just wondering whether or not was that part of this public process as far as the ones coming up on the 13th for example at del valle, would this be one of the things that were discussed?
>> commissioner, I think it is a different idea and I think they are looking at generally in the Pflugerville area because of the relationship to being on so close to the Williamson county piece of this. And they've already approached several landowners. It's connected, but separate. It's not really. And they've already made contact with splil related to access -- Pflugerville related to access questions. They want to make it a friendly process, but it is a separate, but parallel process.
>> it can be brought up in the charrette.
>> the charrette, it can be brought up at the charrette.
>> yeah, I think so. Sense you've got a gathering on the first segment of the sh 130 in hutto and the one for the other segments of the alignment of sh 130, so I think it should probably be inclusive, so that's why I brought that point up. But again, there's only so much you can do with the two million dollars that's allocated because you still have to look at the landscaping of this particular sh 130 alignment as far as the cars are concerned. So that in itself is a monumental task. So breaking it down dollar per dollar and the expensive thins that will come up -- and I do know that there is a vary yition between particular costs associated for the activity that will be dealing with that, it just appears to me that we need to get the most boeing t of the buck. I guess the community will have their say as we go through the process and the particular public hearings as far as the charrettes are concerned.
>> I don't know if the average resident will know what's going on if you say there's a public hearing on sh 130 charrette. My guess is --
>> well, it's not really a public hearing. It's more of an informal input kind of deal.
>> I need to make a correction on something I said on my memo actually. I had November 14th on the one at hutto. That's actually November 19th.
>> but the 13th is still the one that's --
>> the 13 sth the one at del valle. I'm sorry about the wrong date.
>> did we get input from the -- there are two guys who come to the campo meetings, and they represent the Travis County bicyclists, I guess.
>> yeah. > can we get input from them?
>> yeah. Ferk, i'll call and talk to them about that tonight.
>> the other thing is do we know whether campo has been asked to respond, saying that we --
>> this is just -- it's just a region wide kind of question. I mean, this is an open meeting that people have been given this -- it's been advertised in the paper and all that.
>> yes, no or I don't know?
>> yes. I'm sorry.
>> it seems to me that in order for us -- if we come up with specific recommendations, I would take them to campo and say basically, here's what we think. The other question is whether we have asked Williamson county to share with us its recommendations, if it has some. I would do that as well as share with them our recommendations. I mean, I would think that since sh 130 crosses both counties, we wouldn't want beautiful landscaping in Travis County to end at the Travis County boundary. We would want it to be at least throughout the northern segment.
>> right.
>> so if we're taking it seriously, when I saw it, when I saw $10 million, I said well, you know, at first they just want these ideas and we're not really interested in it. $10 million is a whole lot of opportunity.
>> especially for design.
>> so, I mean -- and you're talking about one of these projects that will take a long time to build and will be around forever once this gets done.
>> judge, on the design, are they referring to the wall with the star on them? Is that -- is that the lone star?
>> yeah, the state of Texas, but it was sort of like a motif. Txdot has put it on a lot of their bridges.
>> but that is a design that people would identify with.
>> and I did give you another handout that's in color that has some structural things. In addition to these more kind of soft things, you're also talking about what kind of things do we want to see on the overpasses, what kind of forms do they need to create in order to -- that will also be discussed at the charrettes.
>> and a lot of thipz that were in here were incorporated into the design of mopac in the mid 70's so we would not be sitting here almost 30 years later saying if only we had said something, because there were a lot of things that were put out there and nothing ever happened to them and people are still talking about too bad we didn't do it right from the very beginning, people trying to get from one side of mopac to the other and trail connections, sound walls that never happened, landscaping that on owe it just doesn't work. So we have an opportunity here that we ought not to waste.
>> so we're sure that this time they'll get done?
>> I think we're loud enough.
>> I think that the court needs to see the specific language that we'll end up using.
>> okay.
>> one. Two is I would be general. I mean, rather than prohibiting a specific project, I would use general language that basically positively says how I believe the road ought to be presented. But at some point I think the commissioners court needs to sign off on specific language. It's good you've got other recommendations today. I would get input from others. The other thing that we have a little time, I think willed come up with a draft that we think we can distribute publicly, then I would do it and I would say here's what we're thinking about recommending. If you have ideas, let us know. And I would think about language that clearly indicates to Travis County residents what it is that we're working on.
>> elaine, the meeting -- that would be one on the 19th, that's going to be at hutto high school?
>> yeah, hutto high school, that's correct.
>> will we have time for that one?
>> both will be from six to 10. So it's a very open forum. They'll be getting all kinds of ideas from a lot of different people. And I don't know that Williamson county is bringing it to their court in a formal kind of way that we have done or that any of the other cities are doing now. I just know that we wanted to make sure that we got your feedback on it.
>> I think we ought to do our thing and share it with them.
>> right.
>> we need it back on this court's agenda when, next week or weeks after?
>> we could discuss it again, yeah, if you'd like. Like I said, it's not really a formal -- we'll bring it back if you'd like to see. We wanted to try to get these comments to them, to the -- to the charrettes themselves, which are happening like one is tomorrow night and the other one is next week. So it's kind of happening really fast. However, this is not the end of it. Just because the charrette is over does not mean that -- because what will happen is there is a committee of tta staff members who will make the final decision about what this road will look like based on all the input they get from a lot of different places.
>> that just gives you an opportunity to have a draft for us next Tuesday. Let's look at that and at that meeting that night you can say Travis County has a draft of recommendations and here they are. How's that?
>> okay. Irk anything further on number 6 today?
>> I guess my point, though, is that we have -- let me make sure. When we have the meeting tomorrow night at del valle -- and of course, they will gather the information on the charrettes as far as what the communities say that they would like to have within the confines of what they have here and what we discuss today. There is a lot of things that may not be a part of that. What we're saying is that after the -- well, hutto is on the 19th, isn't it? The 19th is a Tuesday. We need to try to figure out the information that's coming from the public itself, how will we incorporate that into our next commissioners court meeting? That's what I'm trying to determine.
>> I would just suggest that we listen to what they have to say, I guess.
>> you've got one on the 19th, which is a Tuesday. And then you have one tomorrow night, which will be in del valle.
>> right.
>> probably the one on Tuesday -- next week will be primarily Williamson county residents, although that's not necessarily true. But we know one being held in Travis County is at del valle.
>> okay. All right. Okay. Well, we'll do that then, I guess.
>> we'll have it back on next week, hopefully with a draft.
>> another question. Do you want me to mention tomorrow night what we discussed today or what -- do you want me to bring it up at all or just to listen to the citizens? Do you want me to bring up these issues that we've talked about?
>> I think the court ought to approve something specific.
>> okay.
>> and I think the residents of the public hearing, we would listen to them the same as if we had one.
>> all right.
>> number #- is to discuss the Texas transportation commission minute order creating a regional mobility authority and take appropriate action.
>> judge...
>> okay. We have before you a minute order that was presented -- that
>> all right.
>> number #- is to discuss the t to approve something specific.
>> okay.
>> and I think the residents of the public hearing, we would listen to them the same as if we had one.
>> all right.
Last Modified: Wednesday, April 2, 2003 10:25 AM