Travis County Commissioners Court
February 14, 2006
Item 32
32 is to color weather consider andtake appropriate aca proposed policy relating to obstacles in the county right-of-way.
>> as you will recall, this is the county judge asked the staff to come back with this policy back in -- I think it was in December. We had an issue --
>> the county judge had forgotten, joe.
>> good thing that your staff doesn't forget. This happened, as you recall, it was a retaining wall, that kind of broked the question, the home owner came in, built a retaining wall within the right-of-way. We regular tagged it, went through -- red tagged it, went through quite a bit of pain and suffering trying to decide whether to remove the retaining wall. We ultimately decided to let them leave it there. It was not an obstruction to the site distance. So it got us to thinking about, at what point in time does an obstacle become an obstacle where we really do need to go out and red tag it, have it taken care of. That's basically what this policy is. It helps give the staff some direction on when we need to take affirmative action to notify the property owner to remove the obstacle. This threshold. We have tried to go in and determine what it was that would trigger such an event. What this policy tries to do, first of all, is define an object. I know that's -- that may seem kind of rudimentary to you, but not everything that's in the right-of-way is an object. I mean it could be tall grass and it could be a -- a real estate sign. Some of those things are not objects as we would want them to be defined as objects. But on the other hand, a monumental mailbox --
>> obstacle, the word -- you know --
>> object is separate from an obstacle. Basically what we are trying to say is some things rise to the level of being immovable or in such a way that it is a safety hazard and that's what we are trying to define in this policy. It is also where it is placed in the right-of-way. We have what's called a clear zone. That clear zone is defined with highway traffic manuals, criteria, defines where it is that you expect a vehicle to be able to -- to travel without hitting something. That's kind of basically a clear zone. I’m not doing such a good job of explaining this. I probably have david give you a more precise definition of what a clear zone is.
>> well, I guess it's basically a clear recovery area. An area where if you do lose control of your vehicle and go off the road, there's enough room to be able to get control of your vehicle, get back on the road without hitting something. And this -- this distance is based on traffic volumes, roadway classifications and speeds. Her pulled -- they are pulled from txdot's rail ray design manual, ashto, the city's transportation criteria manual, that's what we have used in this policy.
>> but david the thing that's really driving this -- that retaping wall is one thing. Mailboxes is really the thing that comes to -- especially west because everybody -- everybody wants their mailbox to look like their house. I mean, it's -- you know, sometimes it's a little smaller than their house [laughter] sometimes it's not. But it is an obstacle, that is certainly something that we do -- I think drives this whole 32, really that more than --
>> I would say that the retaining walls that block site distances are very close to the top as well.
>> oh, yeah.
>> so I think --
>> it's not what you have, it's where you have it. If you had the same mailbox in your yard which I have in the city of Austin you are fine, you have to be in my yard to hit my mailbox. But if it were in the city right-of-way, the city just wouldn't allow it. Now the difference is there is curb and gutter. So I mean I would have to put my mailbox on cement you see. But in some of other cases I guess if you are out in the county right-of-way you are real close to cement, too, aren't you? I think just build a mailbox of your choice, put on your property.
>> there are criteria for what is acceptable for a mailbox structure. That the postal service has. That's basically a four by four wood post or a two inch steel pipe. Not set more than 24 inches deep in the ground.
>> they don't tell you where to put that.
>> well, they do have criteria. Within so many feet of the edge of the roadway. Now, the thing is that you can put a masonry mailbox behind a curb and it will be outside the clear recovery area. If there's a curb, the clear recovery area is only 1.5 feet. So you can put your masonry mailbox next to the curb. The rural section with no curb basically you can put a mailbox, but it cannot be an immovable object. It has to be what is designated as an approved mailbox structure. Otherwise it's an obstacle.
>> well, did we factor all that this right here in our policy?
>> yes.
>> is your mailbox, does your property go up to where the concrete or curb starts for the street? Mailman doesn't have to get out of the vehicle in order to deliver your mail.
>> he can reach half his arm out of the car and put it in my mailbox.
>> I think mostly in west, I guess the difference is, is that there's a -- there's a right-of-way distance. For the people to put the kind of mailbox that a lot of them want to put, they would need to put it beyond the reach of the mailman. To be able to -- to deliver the mail. That's the reason they stick it out where they too and get it to look like their house.
>> of course a lot of the newer neighborhoods, they are not even allowing you to have individual post boxes, you have to go to a community post box.
>> that's the greatest thing. A lot of people don't like to do that. But it's sure solve this is problem.
>> for all of us that have slots that go directly into our homes, we leave everybody out of our personal business.
>> the problem is the kind of mailbox that's being used then where it's located. If they were to put the mailbox that's sort of preferred by the postal system, put that in the county right-of-way it is not the obstacle that we think will cause a safety problem.
>> correct. It's cashed crash worthy is the word they use to where it won't be a hazard to the travelling public.
>> well, I think if nothing else we ought to adopt the kind of standard that we think should be in place and after that, I mean, just expect home builders and buyers to comply. It's not like we have heard of numerous accidents being caused. It's just that that is a hazard that exists in too many -- too many communities, right?
>> I guess -- it is prevalent throughout the county, yes.
>> you don't have to look hard to find these obstacles.
>> we are not suggesting that we -- this policy be applied retroactively. We are trying to again prevent this from happening in the future.
>> right.
>> so -- [indiscernible] [laughter]
>> he said the precinct 3 chairman right out [indiscernible] sending all of those red tags out to everybody.
>> we are find in central city. Is this a problem for you, Gerald? [laughter]
>> I told joe, I said that the residents that hear this conversation and live in unincorporated areas will probably want to see the policy. Especially those who are thinking about buying soon. I would suggest action next week, same as with the other item. To give those who see this and here about it for the first time today a week to -- is that okay? Any problem with that?
>> we have to go through a certain amount of posting and notice anyway for the statute. I will say on the sidewalks the policy -- the rule language is not actually drafted yet. On this obstacles it is because it was simpler to write. So we may not be as ready to go forward on the sidewalks as you --
>> seems to me that there are four or five issues that we probably need to address on the preliminary basis. Just to put the policy in place. Do we have a public hearing requirement on the other one?
>> basically, yeah.
>> do we have one on this one basically.
>> you have got to notify the public of the date that you are going to act on it, which is functionally a public hearing.
>> do we have the same requirement on this one.
>> uh-huh.
>> joe, any or presentation? Any more presentation?
>> just one more, that is the -- you may recall the enforcement policy that you adopted several years ago, we make reference to that enforcement policy basically it's a progressive enforcement policy. Before we call upon the county attorney to enforce. Three notices, inform the people of what they do to correct the problem before we turn it over for mitt fwaition by the county attorney. We follow that same proceed when it comes to this policy.
>> so for the average resident who wonders, whether we are just meddling or whether there is public policy action to be required here, what's our answer?
>> I think we are down to public safety issues at this point.
>> I think our policy is rational. I think we are clearing basing our decisions on public safety. I think the way that we are defined this here, we are pretty clear about what it is that constitutes the obstruction in the right-of-way.
>> okay. Anything else today? We give you all a chance to present what you --
>> yeah.
>> have it back on next week. Or two weeks from now? I will be ready next week. Doesn't matter?
>> what are you anticipating will happen the next time on the agenda. Do you want the sidewalk policy, the rule language actually drafted? So we can move forward with rule language.
>> 32.
>> obstacles. Obstacles in the county right-of-way. Looks like the policy is already written. The input as questions, et cetera. Could move on a straight track --
>> on 31 I think that we will have a follow-up discussion to try to address the four or five issues that are there. Next week. Then after that, tom, maybe --
>> I got you.
>> draft the policy language and maybe if you can post that one for public hearing, because when you talk about posting a fiscal, that affects home builders my guess is a whole lot more folk will be impacted immediately.
>> one more comment that I wanted to make with regard to the obstacles in the right-of-way. We have broadened that to also include obstacles within the sidewalk. So anything that would bring about a non-compliance because someone put an obstruction within the right-of-way of the sidewalk that also qualifies. We are trying to watch out by creating new a.d.a. Issues on sidewalks by people putting things that otherwise would have been an a.d.a. Compliant sidewalk because it -- someone comes out there and puts a mailbox in the middle of the driveway, all of a sudden -- the obstacles include such an event that will red tag things that would start to make our sidewalks non-compliant.
>> have any -- any record of obstacles in public restrooms, do you?
>> you know, this is actually more an issue with utilities than it is homeowners. We are talking about telephone poles and such being plunked right in the middle of the sidewalk. [laughter]
>> and basketball goals.
>> basketball goals.
>> okay.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:17 AM