Travis County Commissioners Court
February 8, 2005
Item 37
37. Consider status and take appropriate action on request for Travis County participation in disparity study for central Texas area.
>> good afternoon, judge, Commissioners, cyd grimes, county purchasing agent. With me today is sylvia lopez, hub coordinator, also jeff trivillon for the city of Austin, the director of their minority -- you have a long title, jeff.
>> small and minority business resources.
>> we met about two weeks ago to kind of give you a status report on where we were in the disparity study with the city of Austin. And we also at that time gave you an alternate, some alternate options that we had recommended. The court asked that we take two weeks and meet with mr. Trevillion and also talk with the construction advisory committee to get their input on our alternate plans. We have been able to do that. We met with mr. Trevillion I believe it was last Monday and he's got a little bit of an update for you on what the city is doing and how we still can participate with them and one of the options that I said last time was that we -- that we participate in the focus groups. And that is still doable. So i'll let jeff just mention to you where they're at, how we still can participate in that process and ms. Hadnot, carol hadnot is here, being shy sitting in the back of the room. But -- but she's here, also, if you all want comments from her.
>> okay.
>> okay. Good afternoon, once again my name is jeff trevillion and I am from the city of Austin.
>> welcome, city of Austin representative.
>> thank you. Well, if I do sound a little muffled today, I知 a little under the weather. So if -- if I say anything that you can't hear, just ask me and i'll repeat it. Let's see, I just came today to give you an update on where the city is. On December the 7th, we took the city council a proposal for -- for doing our second generation study, which is updating and refreshing our disparity study and identifying how the market has changed since last we were out in the field. So we had a -- a meeting last Monday with Travis County staff to identify possible areas that we might work together in. One that we identified was focus groups and town hall meetings. And they would give you an opportunity to identify what is being done in the community from the perspective of general contractors and subcontractors and it would give you some anecdotal evidence and information about trends and opportunities that are available within the business community and how we might potentially work together in the future.
>> i'll do that as a thumbnail sketch and be happy to answer any questions.
>> jeff, let me ask you a couple of questions. This is a point of what we are trying to do here as far as the study -- my -- I think -- I think in the effort of trying to bring some equity to -- participation, I think more participation, a higher percentage of participation in the h.u.b. Business community and minority women -- women and minority owned businesses here within the county, I知 really -- really concerned about this and I want to make sure that what we are doing actually attains the goals in which we are trying to achieve. Saying all of that, though, we -- when we first started looking at this, we had several persons that we thought were going to participate in this process to -- to do a cost sharing. Whereby each particular entity it would not be such a -- such a hardship -- not hardship but at least not having the -- the burden of having to -- to put as much money on the table as what we are looking at here today. Can you tell me what happened to the other entities participation level in this particular disparity study since all of us entities were basically going to benefit from it if we came from a cost sharing approach and got more bang out of the buck, opposed to just the city and the county, just the city and whatever else, whomever else that's left would be more of a cost. Could you tell me exactly what happened?
>> well, sir, what I can do is -- is speak on behalf of the city of Austin. And I can't speak on behalf of any other entity, but I can say this to you: our original vision was to share costs with all of the political subdivisions within the area because we do share a common market. However, for one reason or another, the -- some of the entities determined that it was not in their best interests to participate in this project at this time. And to -- to -- declined to do so. And therefore what we have on the table is -- is the city of Austin and we have mapped out what our interest is and have -- have contracted with colette holds to -- holtz to address those particular issues and we think that we have found some partnership opportunities that the county might be able to participate in as well. So I don't know if that fully answered your question --
>> we are getting there.
>> all right.
>> we are getting there.
>> I think as a matter for budget for some of the entities, I know aisd was concerned they didn't have the money. They also do not have a formal h.u.b. Program and they were trying to concentrate on their construction projects only. And I believe they told us that -- that the prime contractor would be responsible for h.u.b., whoever they hired to do the construction would be responsible for gaining minority participation, so they took a little bit different path. I believe it went back to budget issues for them.
>> okay.
>> on the other entities participating with the city of Austin already?
>> capital metro should be participating with us --
>> they will be?
>> yes, sir, we are expecting them to, yes.
>> we talked a little bit about costs for us participating in those focus groups, it should be between about 10 to $10,000. -- about 10 to $15,000. The other thing the court asked was to talk a little bit to colette, she did agree she could work with us on our contracts with the county attorney's office. Then also we are looking at the software that we would like to buy. We think, even if we had to pay the $15,000, that would still give us enough money to look at the software and hire ms. Holt.
>> I couldn't connect the dots originally when we were talking about this, how far the county would go, is that we thought the study would be 300 to $500,000 for a full-fledged, full up disparity study. And I知 not understanding is the city getting a full-fledged disparity study for $125,000?
>> no. We have already done a full-fledged disparity study and what we are doing is looking at the period of time between the conducting of that disparity study and now. So we are -- we are not doing a full-fledged study.
>> [multiple voices]
>> back -- you have backed off of your --
>> [multiple voices]
>> I知 going god we could have done this all for 125 split between three entities, get us in.
>> Commissioners [indiscernible] when did we do that original in '94. That's in '93-'94, actually I helped participate in selecting the consultant that came in and did the full fledged disparity study. That study has gotten I think by city standards, everyone else's a little long in the tooth. They needed to update it. The standard required to update it is not the same as someone like us starting from scratch. We have done a little but starting from more a beginning point to get there. What we would have gotten from the city's second look, would have been some things to benefit us toward that line, but it would not have gotten us, we still would have had to go back and do a lot of things that the city did back in '94. Where we found is identifying items in what the city plans to do, these focus groups that will help us for that original work that we need to do, we avail ourselves of that. More importantly, I think, the data, when you hire these companies to come in and do take full-fledged study, a lot of the cost depends on what's the state of your data. You have got to show past history, a history of past discrimination, how do you go about doing that? Look at your numbers. So the second part I think of what cyd proposed here is to -- to bring in the software tools or whatever necessary to get our numbers in place. So when we eventually do go out and say let's get the whole study, hopefully we can save some money because our numbers are in a lot better shape than they were --
>> okay. That's helpful. Thank you.
>> so we only spend 15 to $20,000 now of the $100,000, we would have the $80,000 to spend later if we -- if we --
>> well, I would ask that whenever you authorize me to negotiate a contract with colette, so that she can help us with our contracts and also allow us to go out and -- get quotes on software and go ahead and bring that purchase back to Commissioners court, so we can go ahead and buy that software and start using it.
>> so that's what we have to spend the $80,000 on that?
>> yeah.
>> that costs about that much?
>> we think the software is about 50,000. And we think colette will probably be maybe 25, 20, 25,000.
>> I知 not sure. We need work in looking at our contracts. Really her history, her experience with things that are tried in other jurisdictions, I haven't talked to her about a quote, I知 sure that you all have, hopefully if we look at that, we can find where we can get the best bang for the buck on in a.
>> is this something that -- that our purchasing department, do you still think that we need to do this? My biggest question was when we first started this, with the $100,000, is is it something that we need to do because I understand that we felt like that we were doing an adequate job with -- with you know all of our hiring and award contracts, do we still feel that way?
>> I still feel that way. But I think, you know, like any -- like any system, we can improve it. We can -- you know, we just keep aiming higher and higher. And you know I -- I think that -- I think what this alternate gives us a lot. It gives us software, someone to look at our contracts, national expertise and experience in doing this. She can tell us, you know, what we can do and be legal. And I think participating in these focus groups with the city will be beneficial so we will know what the community, the h.u.b. Community is -- what their obstacles are, how we can go about addressing those, correcting them. We know some of that information now, the -- it's my understanding is that it's just another step in this long process to get us where we need to be.
>> by way of comparison, I think, when you talk about the types of programs, maybe you are comparing apples and oranges when you compare the types of program. A voluntary program to a program that does run by an ordinance. I think they run a very good voluntary program. But when you talk about having an ordinance and having rules that are enforceable and give you an opportunity to -- to track and make policy, that is what a disparity study provides. You are not able to make policies and rules by -- by the [indiscernible] decision until you have a disparity study in place, that's how it moves you down the road.
>> and on that note, in a disparity study in itself, let's say that -- [indiscernible] let me ask this question.
>> sure, go ahead.
>> let's say that the court decides to approve what we are doing here today. Go forward with the disparity study. Okay? Now, going through the -- whatever the logistics phase of whatever purchasing brought up, you know, the software, then looking at negotiation with the attorney that took this thing forward. What would be the normal time frame, if any such answer, normal time frame of coming back to say, yes, there has been -- has been -- based on the findings, we feel that the disparity study is -- is upheld and there is a -- a problem that Travis County has per se. What time frame are we looking at? And along with that, voluntary and I知 saying voluntary compliance, and then mandatory compliance, two different -- two different things that you are talking about here. If you don't -- you know, all of the ramifications as far as new policy, requirements that would be established from that set date as far as coming to compliance as far as what we are doing here?
>> well, thank you for the question, Commissioner. Let me set what I believe is before us today. You laid out a goal that you like to see us go. I think I want to clarify what cyd is proposing. If the court should entertain a motion and adopt what is before you today, you know, you would all be clear, this is not a disparity study. We are not doing -- I think there's a hope that I hear that we go forward some day, the county go murder and do a disparty study -- go forward and do a disparity study. It's time for sticker shock, your last guess was about a million to do a disparity study to a level that we feel could withstain [sic] challenge. There's a lot of work that goes into that, something that could sustain a court challenge, there's been only one recently sustained that was colette's client take did it. That's why we are so interested in her. What's before us today is to take those preliminary extent to get our data in the right place, gain? Anecdotal data to get ready, if we hire some firm that will come in and do us a disparity study for quite a considerable price, that at least we have got some of the basics there that might chop away at that price. An early investment that might save us more in the long run is what we are hoping. Ance to your questions about -- about a time frame, I don't know when the focus groups are really scheduled. But the legal work that we are talking about for collette, three things, legal work by collette, probably not more than about 20 hours of work, we can actually get the right people in the right place, the documents in place and go through it and identify the real key legal questions and get them answered. I don't think that's a long period of time. It's just scheduling. We have got a proposal to participate with these two focus groups. Well, it's when the city, under their plan, when they get there, when they really plan to do those, that we would tag along with them. I don't know their time frame for that. Thirdly the software which would require you to go out for some competitive proposal to get software and end up entering into a contract to get that brought in, installed, run, start interesting the data. You may have some answer about time frame for that type of a process.
>> about three months.
>> about three months. The reason why I posed the question. I understand jeff earlier to state -- '94 whatever, whoever was talking about '94, when they actually had the necessary information to --
>> let me explain that.
>> to support that disparity study itself.
>> long ago the city wanted -- realized -- the city was where we were back in '93. They understood that in order to get -- to be able to do this type of a program, that's mandatory, there are legal requirements that must be met. Legal standards set by the supreme court in the crowson case particularly that jeff has mentioned. The city decided what they needed to does was called a disparity study. Like they have done recently they went to other governmental organizations asked if anyone would like to cost participate. We considered it. At the time the costs, I think the court decided it wasn't the appropriate move to make at that time. I actually participated even though the county didn't get in it with selecting the city's vendor that came in and did it. I forget the name of it.
>> d.j. Miller out of atlanta I seem to remember. They came in and did the study. We didn't participate in that study, we went to voluntary, we put money in to start it up the h.u.b. Program and to get, you know, into a better position, I think that you heard collette when she was here last say for a volunteer program we have actually done very well. The question before us now is do we want to move beyond the voluntary to the benefits that you get from a mandatory program like jeff says that is enforceable. That you can actually be more sure of the results that you are going to get because you get to enforce them. Where a voluntary program you really have to count on everybody doing their part.
>> okay. Thank you. Thank you.
>> sure.
>> any comments from the advisory committee? Looking at ms. Hadnot.
>> come on down.
>> sorry, carol.
>> good afternoon, my name is carroll hadnot, I did not have my plans to speak this afternoon. We already met with the staff, cyd, celia, and we talked about this. We wanted to be sure what the county was proposing. We do support this first step. We do remember when the city did their disparity study because we sat on that disparity study committee. We do think this is a start because you will have that information in the archives to start from. The city didn't have that opportunity. So we wholeheartedly support it. We think that -- that you made a great decision, excuse me, hyper ventilating. A great decision to go ahead and get your software now because it's going to be very important to be able to track that information to be able to document that information, to have that information to support and [indiscernible] testimony that you would get from the the public. So we support it wholeheartedly.
>> you support it? Oakie doke. I wanted to hear that carol hadnot. [laughter]
>> david, do -- do we autonomously have the ability as a Commissioners court to put some mechanism in place if we think that there -- that there are injustices out there with regards to who is getting work and who is not getting work. I realize that ours is voluntary, that I guess that is something that -- that's -- that doesn't sit well with people, is that right? Voluntary, is that an issue that -- that --
>> well, I could address that. It doesn't sit very well with people simply because just looking at the data, when we reviewed the data, we saw where a lot of the h.u.b. Firms had been awarded subcontracts and they never were given the opportunity to perform the work. There were others who never, never got paid for some of the work that they performed. So this gives you an opportunity -- the volunteerism, very difficult to enforce this because you have nothing to enforce because by the time you find out, the contract has been completed and people have gone their separate ways. So that's a serious issue.
>>
>> [one moment please for change in captioners]
>>
>> to address that found that discrimination. Those are the only real bay sesz you've got to look into gender and race in making your decision. The county not having that program, the city not having that program, they have a mandatory one. We do not have it. We do the next best thing. We impress what a good thing it is to have diversity in the economy. It benefits all, and so we get contractors that come forward and just by suggestion they say here's our group, here are our subs and you can look and we've got diversity in our program. But if that contractor after getting the contract chooses to change those decisions and not actually use that same team, we've got no way to enforce. That there are discussions, and this is part of what cyd is suggesting is that when we sit with a lawyer like collette that has experience in these, we might be able to refine our contracts where we might have some enforceability on that. They came forward, they volunteered here's our team. Well, fine, now you've contracted, that's your team and we're going to be able to enforce you to hold that team. It mayor give us more arrows in our quiver. That's a key step. But what carol is concerned about is at the current voluntary stage and the contracts we have now, we don't have many arrows to enforce and see those contractors voluntarily complying that they do see it to the end.
>> and just to expand on that a little bit, because we do have a mandatory program, we dictate what has to happen during our bid process. Section 22 tells the general contractor what he or she must do as they bid and build their -- as they bid and build their project. They develop what we call on compliance plan. They tell us who is going to participate. We have the expectation that they will participate or whomever is in that compliance plan will participate at the level in which has been identified in that compliance plan. If they do not, then we use section 23 as our post-award process. We identify exactly what has been done, what has not been done. If the rules have not been followed and we determine that a violation has been made, then I as the director with our legal team and our purchasing officer have an opportunity to review the action, and if it rises to the level of a really a degree just problem, then we have section 26 where we can sanction that company if we choose to do so. That is because we have a mandatory program. Voluntary program does thought have the opportunity to do those things.
>> well, then, why don't we -- why are we going through the motions? If what we're doing is doubting ourselves, well, then let's vote on whether or not we need to come up with a plan that can force us to do something. This whole thing was not comfortable for me because when I asked our purchasing department are we really having situations, do we have instances where -- if somebody does work and they don't get paid, I would like to know that because I would like to go to that contractor and say what are you doing. I mean, you know, I don't have any problem at all with picking up the phone and saying, you know what, you didn't do what you said you were going to do. Somebody did the work. So I just -- I hate to do things just to go through the motion. And I feel like that I知 being put in a spot where you all need to do this study because we don't think that you're doing the job that you should be doing. Tell us the job that we ought to be doing and i'll gladly vote on let's do that job. And so I just -- I知 either missing something here -- I don't want to just foolishly spend $100,000, which is what we will do, I mean by the time, you know, everybody gets a bite of the apple, we will spend $100,000. Software scares me to death. Software that we buy next Thursday for some reason doesn't work anymore. So that drives me crazy to think we may be doing that. I知 all in support of being fair to anybody and everybody. And I知 -- and I知 willing to say, I mean, give us a program that will allow us to do this. But if we're just going through, if this is a channel that you've got to go through just to get there, which I知 not getting something --
>> let me see if I can clarify something. First of all, it's a decision the court has, a policy decision -- I think everyone on this court is saying they are being fair in us awarding contracts. This will be a study to find out. If we looked at the numbers after the fact and determined, well, you've got a certain minority that's got this capability to provide services, but for persistent, you know, historical data shows they are not getting that share. And in a world being, in a community being equal, you would like to think that generally it's going to work out that way. I think there are people in this community that believe when they see those numbers, that have access to show of those numbers, they show there is a disparity there and they can come up with reasons why there is that disparity. It might be that all the Commissioners court can look to is who comes in with the lowest amount of money to do our work. And that's all you can do. What these people are asking you, we would like to you take the social policy also into consideration and recognize these disparities and see what you can do in programs that might help get those equal numbers. And your lawyer sits here and says you cannot do that unless you have a disparity study. The supreme court has said you captain look to those areas where you do -- affirmative action type of program unless you've met these stpugsal constitutional provisions. This requires you to do that study that is very expensive. The city comes forward, and we've chosen to do the best we can with the voluntary program. The city comes forward and says we're going to do this work, a lot of this work is stuff you were going to do if you were going to do this program. We've identified all that the city has done there's not a whole lot that really is timely for us and beneficial for us to do now ahead of if we ever go to a disparity program. I think the question is of the three things cyd has proposed, the data is important -- it's not that it's broken. I just don't think that we're probably capable with our current software system to maintain data at a subcontractor level to know how much we're spending for contract on subcontractors based on these various, you know, disparity factors and criteria. So if you want to just keep that data just so you know when people come to you and say we don't think it's falling out, you have that data. Tkerblly if you do -- additionally if you do some day decide you want to go into a disparity study that is correct data is going to save you down the line when you do that program. Secondly, the focus groups, if you have decided now that you think things are working fine with the volunteer program and you don't want to do a disparity program, no need to do those poke us groups other than just general information you might get. But if you do have some thoughts down the line of getting into this area, those focus groups will help and I think for the prize. Thirdly is the contract. The contract help modification. Even if today you don't think you would ever want to move forward out of a volunteer program, the benefits you get on our contracts being improved, it will take us at least to the limits that we can do and enforce under a voluntary program. Regardless of whether we're going to go forward on it, I would recommend we upgrade our contracts because we get the most enforcement we can for voluntary program. I think that's pretty much the questions that are in front of you.
>> let me go back to the software question because it's a legitimate one. Is what you guys are talking about this software package, is this something that is off the shelf, already exists and you could at least visit with other folks that have bought it to say does it do what it says it's supposed to do?
>> yes. Sylvia and betty and drum have looked at three different packages. They've had three demos. And sylvia, can you talk a little about the programs and who is using them?
>> there are three different packages that we talked about and had just a real quick 45-minute demo. Txdot is using one of those packages. References go back to 2001, some more as recent, 2003. So the packages that have more references, people we've been able to talk to, we've kind of focused on talking with that particular person. That created the software.
>> and one of these packages was recommended by collette. She has looked at what's out there and she said you really need to look at this package. And I think that is the one we're sort of leaning toward. So yes, we're not going to have computer programmers in here creating software. It's pretty much off the shelf stuff that's being used by other folks.
>> probably about seven references on that particular --
>> it's my understanding when somebody is typing in the prime person is putting in the information to draw down on what they are owed by the county, they are having to log in, for lack of a better word, as well their sub information.
>> correct.
>> so that it just automatically generates what it is that we want the find out as opposed to somebody just puts in for their draw and we don't necessarily find out whether that went to the sub that it was supposed to go to and what percentages. It makes it happen as it enters into the h.g.e. System.
>> that's correct. And what we want to do on the contract side is make it -- make our contracts very clear that if they don't enter that information into the system, there's going to be consequences to that and that's where we need her expertise to help us.
>> to me that's real, Gerald, in terms of getting real data and real information. So that we can operate on facts, and I think then would we not have the ability once we get this information to be able to compare it to how are we doing and legitimately compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges with another entity to say, well, ours is voluntary. Here's how we're doing. And you could actually take a look, or could we, with the city of Austin's data in this same way and say we're doing as well as them, are we doing better, worse, and then be able to target where we need to make improvements as opposed to not. I don't think is studying just for the same of studying.
>> no, I think this is -- I think we get more bang for the $100,000 doing the three options. Yes, it would be great if we had a million dollars and a manned tkoer program, but we praoel ice that's not reality at this point. So for this amount of money, we think this is the best place we can be at the point in time. As we talked about last week in the construction area on facilities, we now have that design-build legislation that gives us some teeth. And so, you know, through legislative changes that we've worked on for years and through just taking little steps at a time, you know, we are -- and we still think we're doing as good as the city, just about. And so --
>> [inaudible] what I知 hearing is a three-part proposal to head in a slightly different direction. Seems to me we need another agenda item for that. I also think we need more detailed backup. And if we there any there are specific things that we get from refining our contracts, then we may as well know what they are to the extent we can describe them. If we think this software has advantages, we may as well see what they are in writing in advance. See what I知 saying?
>> yes.
>> in your memo you generally set forth those three, and looks like we're headed in that direction. Three parts makes sense to me if that's the best we can do, but I think we ought to know exactly what we think we can get from each one of them.
>> judge, [inaudible] the -- and also the contract person would be using collette holt, bring those back.
>> we'll bring it all back. And some of you would like to participate in demonstrations of software, we could arrange that.
>> that's something that --
>> i'd like to kind of -- [multiple voices]
>> I think the other question I had was is it because of the disparity study that you are able to set goals for projects?
>> only because of the disparity study.
>> only because of that. That's why we can't set goals.
>> enforce goals.
>> we can set goals, but we can't enforce them.
>> that's right.
>> okay. And then also to -- I guess you would do a -- kind of like a survey of the number of contractors and subcontractors who are available to do certain times of jobs. And I guess we would make an extra effort to go out and make sure that they did. Is that also possible of the disparity stud stpheu.
>> well, basically what we do is identify types of work by commodity code and the people -- and the firms that are available to do that type of work within this market area.
>> but without that, we're not able to do that ourselves?
>> no, and we are doing that. In fact, at the meeting, is advisory committee the other night, we asked the asian chamber and the black and the hispanics to, you know, really push their membership to get certified and get on our list so that we'll know they are available, we know they want to do this type work. So we're working in cooperation already.
>> so simply being certified helps in a survey to see what kinds of jobs they are eligible to bid for.
>> right.
>> successfully.
>> and let me just say for the record that I think that you all run an admirable program, but when you all move forward, what we'll do is we'll help you guys and let you all know if you catch up ever. [laughter]
>> and I guess the other question, are there -- have we been able to identify contractors who are getting jobs at the city and capital metro who are not able to get jobs here at Travis County?
>> I don't know that we've particularly targeted that. One of the things that sylvia and them do is they try to find out who is on the city's list, who is on capital metro's list and make sure they are on our list so when we have a project we can make sure that they know about it. Sometimes it's a matter of workload and size of the project on whether they think it's worth it to bid on our projects.
>> so it's really more their decision of not bidding on our projects than it is the fact that we're not in a -- have not had a disparity study.
>> yeah, that's my feeling, but maybe the focus group --
>> [inaudible] not being able to contract with Travis County spending all their time and effort for naught and giving up. Might tell the contractors if you have not ever had a contract with us and you have tried again and again, and most of them did try again and again at some point, but not now. And so when we go out and basically phrase the contract opportunities of -- praise the contract opportunities of Travis County they look at you in disbelief because their history won't support that. Seems to me the best thing you can do is have a few contractors who get successful contracts with us, they perform the service, we pay them the money, and by word of mouth you can do a whole lot of good, but I知 convinced we don't have enough out there doing that. We don't have enough who had those successful contract arrangements who by word of mouth pass on information about the ability to contract with us. I mean in the black community I know. We do a little better with the hispanic contractors, but there are more hispanic contractors. A whole lot better with women contractors. The numbers say this. So i'd stop giving contract speeches on the contract and when I知 pushed for an answer I try to get dramatic but truthful and sometimes it's hard to do both. But what I see is us continuing to sort of reach out, and if we need software to try to improve, we ought to have the committee members look at that. We ought to make the best choice we can with it. In the end, nothing beats being able to point to specific individuals who have gotten a contract with Travis County. You are hard put to find those and construction contracts in Austin. Especially with blacks. For professional services, we do a much better job and there are a lot of examples out there. So when you talk with even just a few black architects, but the few that are have done quite a bit of business with us. Engineers and the others. Now, what are the results and how can we change them. Those are the questions that really matter. I think the number of statistics will show the number of contracts we do with black contractors in this community is very small. And I think that overall the number is small for hispanics too, but it's larger than with the african-americans because it's largely because of the number of contractors.
>> I guess I知 trying to get to the bottom as to why, why we would need to have a disparity study in order that contractors with the city of Austin and capital metro, you know, could come over to the county. And I know once upon a time we kept hearing that we just didn't pay fast enough. And small companies need to have that cash flow or they -- you know, they get behind and they just can't meet the payroll and other expenditures. But I thought we had done a lot of work in trying to move that prompt payment process through. How are we on that? On the prompt payment?
>> one thing you might get from focus groups is contractors, subcontractors and general contractors talking about their experiences at the county, at the city, at capital metro, at other areas, and you can get comparisons about their real experiences. So hopefully that is what you'll get by participating.
>> I would like to hear about the focus groups and the -- and the software.
>> and I guess -- and this also goes to you, jeff, with the city. And the judge made a very good analogy awhile ago [inaudible] and of course I tell them to, you know, for contract opportunities and stuff like that, if you want to do business with the county, i'll direct them to situated's shop. -- cyd's shob. Do we have any mechanism in place to show where a business person that likes to do business with Travis County can call a number to do business with Travis County and with the city? Is that advertised very much? Because this word of mouth as far as people asking me how do you do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I see this person again and they [indiscernible] and this may be months and months, months later as far as doing business with Travis County. I don't know if it's the same thing for the city, jeff, but those are some real-live experiences. Not doing business with the county.
>> that might be an opportunity for carol to talk because carol puts together a publication. She is a service provider at the city and she puts together a publication called bid briefs.
>> well, the county actively participates in that effort. Sylvia and betty send me that information on a weekly basis in a very timely manner where I publish all of the construction opportunities that are available with the county. And it is disseminated to all of the certified m.b.e.s and andw.b.e.s and that goes out on a weekly basis every week and lists all of the opportunities, not only with the city of Austin, Travis County, university of Texas, lcra, capital metro, and other private sector entities that may have opportunities available. So that's one way that I know that they get that information out. And they even post it on their bulletin board and -- thank you.
>> and we distribute it in pre-bids too.
>> and we have the channel 17 that they see and we have the internet now and betty and sylvia and jerome attend pre-bid conversations and they also attend chamber meetings to get the word out. That's part of our outreach efforts.
>> i've even seen them at city of Austin pre-bid conferences giving out information regarding the county's opportunities.
>> and they participate in our online plan as well. We have a room where contractors come and subcontractors come to get information about bids, to get bids printed up and whatnot. They participate there as well.
>> am I correct that we really have few takers? We have few black contractors bidding on contracts with the county, and even fewer getting contracts?
>> the issue --
>> I知 not knocking our effort because I know about the outreach, and my guess is I don't know that we can do more in terms of presenting presentations, making ourselves available to tell about contract opportunities, but the fact of the matter is if your audience does not believe there are real opportunities and you can put a little investment in putting a proposal together, doing the work or trying to partner with a plan, then our results don't change. And I think that's where we are. So I知 trying to find steps, little steps we can take to put in place something that will get us a few more opportunities, good results that we can kind of hold out so others can see it and believe our program. Is I think our challenge.
>> I think that's a fair statement. In the last seven years that i've been here and that I review all the compliance plans, the good-faith effort plans, that I see very few prime black contractors bidding on the jobs and very few as subcontractors listed as well. But hopefully that will improve through the committee and through all these efforts.
>> I thought a good step was when we adopted the city's ethnic sub goals.
>> that doesn't help because you can't enforce them. So it doesn't help. But there are other barriers. Yes, you get the information, but if -- there are other tools you have to have to bid projects. And a lot of it is bonding. Some of it is bonding. You got to have bonding, and a lot of the general contractors, you want to make sure you are able to do that. And there's insurance. You got to have insurance. And there are other kinds of issues about track records, the capacity to do that size of a job. So there are a lot of other kinds of issues and barriers that are involved and it's a big web out there. And the only way that the city has been able to -- I have to say the only reason they have been able to break down some of those barriers is because they do have service providers in different areas to provide different kinds of services outside of the department of small and minority business resources. They are the contract administrator, but they have subgroups out there for service providers that provide technical assistance and other kinds of services to aid them in putting together bids and/or putting together their profile resume so they know how to market themselves at pre-bid conferences, et cetera. It's a whole bunch of kinds of factors and issues involved.
>> I agree, but ultimately it was the disparity study that led us to the things we needed to know to put together an effective program.
>> if you lined up all the barriers and you had $100,000 for barrier breaking, would you spend it on these three?
>> I would. Simply because the -- and the testimony -- you will get the true feelings of how they really see the county in terms of doing business with the county. They will talk about the barriers not only in doing business with the general contractors, but the county staff. You will get all that kind of information and you'll be able to look at this big picture what the problem areas are. The software is very important because right now you cannot -- in this technological age, you cannot do this by hand and by memory. Because we get just what we said, we won't remember. So that software helps us to remember. So we need that. And collette, I know her because she's nationally known. She works with programs all across the country. She's been before the supreme court. She has tested these cases and she is the expert that could provide that kind of information to help the county move forward.
>> and I guess cyd and sylvia agree because this proposal comes from our purchasing --
>> yes.
>> I can hardly wait to see more specific next week. Can we have it back on?
>> we have all the data. We just didn't give it all to you.
>> I think we ought to have a differently worded agenda item where we basically can respond to this three-part proposal. Right? And so I don't know we need to take any action on the disparity status. We just drop this and pick the new language that --
>> judge, that's fine unless jeff, y'all need anything -- we would have to come back with a contract with either the vendors or the city to participate for those two focus groups, and unless you need that right now at least in some just oral direction for us to get those agreements prepared, we would have to bring those back to you anyway. Unless the city has need for us to okay that in concept now so you have the authority to sit with us and work out waefr paperwork we need, we can come back next week.
>> it's always better to be able to negotiate and move forward. As soon as you do that -- the sooner you do it the better.
>> moving forward with the three?
>> and also maybe get a proposal, a written proposal from collette on her services and set up some of the demos so you all can see some of the software. If we could move forward with those things. We'll be bringing everything back to you.
>> I think for the agenda item for next week, if you need two weeks, then two weeks. We need to know specifically -- performance measures for each one of them. I would think.
>> then give us two weeks, please.
>> all right. Do we need directions today to proceed with the contract --
>> I read this as we're free to bring back to the courtney kind of document with regard to the focus groups for them to consider moving forward. And I think we've got all we need to start that work. I just wonder if you need anything more before you commit your time to work with us on those agreements.
>> we'll get our staff talking to yours.
>> okay. Thank you.
>> anything else on this item? Thank you very much.
>> thank you.
>> we're looking at two weeks.
>> yes, sir.
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Last Modified:
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 9:04 AM